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Post by shevii on Nov 17, 2024 9:39:46 GMT
No-one has commented yet on Streeting's bizarre choice to ask for a "study" of the costs related to assisted dying. Wasting money comes to mind when he's all for making the NHS more efficient and, as Harriet Harman points out, money should not be relevant at all in a moral case. Additionally it should be bleeding obvious that not having to provide end of life care for someone for 6 months is going to be cheaper than the checks needed to ensure free will: www.theguardian.com/society/2024/nov/17/cancel-study-into-the-cost-to-nhs-of-assisted-dying-harman-tells-streeting |
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Nov 17, 2024 10:01:56 GMT
Yes, lots of business has had insane economic policy thrust upon them, You mean, the covid lockdown policy, which aside from ordering them to close down for months led to world shortages of materials and fuel and then the burst of inflation in all sorts of prices? Yes, you can get external economic shocks, and good government would anticipate, prepare for and insulate more from them. Then you have internal problems which poor government might even exacerbate. Rising house prices, expensive energy etc…. Good governance would act to reduce these problems rather more, while poor government would leave individuals and business more exposed Indeed, but the issue is the Uk has become a low wage economy reliant upon cheap labour and immigrants to provide it. This is not sustainable, especially now we have left the EU. So we have to squeeze out the poorest paid jobs from the UK economy. Closing unprofitable businesses is the way we have to go. You don’t have to squeeze out the jobs if you pursue more left-wing policies and reduce costs on business so they can pay more, and if you can reduce costs for the workers they can do better even on the reduced existing pay. |
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Nov 17, 2024 10:11:21 GMT
But we are going for growth under Starmer and if we also continue high immigration levels we can greatly grow our economy and become an attractive economic prize that will cause a bidding war over us. (Possibly not in this universe though) I do wonder whether you are being ironic? Continued high immigration levels are most likely to lead to a Farage government at the next election. (cf president Trump) Not necessarily if, as I say, you go for enough growth as well. If you get enough growth, you may create enough jobs to support a greater number of immigrants, without driving down native wages. Would also have to invest more in things like housing and infrastructure, but that can also assist growth. Of the people concerned about immigration, only some are more bothered about having more foreign people here. Some are concerned more with economic effects, and if you deal with those economic effects, they may not be so bothered if we increase immigration. They might even be pleased at the economic gains. (Remember, some people already gain in their careers from immigration) If we can sustain immigration at the sort of rates we saw recently, maybe 3/4 of a million a year or more, we could have an economy closer to Japan in fifty years time, eventually rivalling Germany and France combined. |
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Post by birdseye on Nov 17, 2024 10:26:35 GMT
Interesting UK poll data here. Looks like Labour down by as much as 6 points with two thirds of this going to reform and only one third to the Tories. The LibDems stuck in the long grass but with the most popular leader by a mile. Difficult to reconcile the leadership popularity ( or non popularity) of Farage when Reform comes over completely as a one man band yet is doing reasonably well in the polls.
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Post by hireton on Nov 17, 2024 10:36:34 GMT
No-one has commented yet on Streeting's bizarre choice to ask for a "study" of the costs related to assisted dying. Wasting money comes to mind when he's all for making the NHS more efficient and, as Harriet Harman points out, money should not be relevant at all in a moral case. Additionally it should be bleeding obvious that not having to provide end of life care for someone for 6 months is going to be cheaper than the checks needed to ensure free will: www.theguardian.com/society/2024/nov/17/cancel-study-into-the-cost-to-nhs-of-assisted-dying-harman-tells-streetingStreeting is an evangelical Christian and is presumably as conflicted on assisted dying as he is about being gay. The Guardian is also reporting on the funding of various groups which are said to be grassroots organisations of healthcare workers and others against assisted dying being funded by Christian lobbyists |
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Post by alec on Nov 17, 2024 11:05:06 GMT
colin - "There are some who have described NCHIs as Orwellian :-" I often read this sort of thing, but while I share some concerns about 'tone policing' etc, I think the knee jerk 'Orwellian' response is another version of the simplism we see on the left, where minor transgressions are labelled as 'fascism'. The point here is that social media now gives open access to a publishing medium which allows opinions to be broadcast globally. This is an incredibly important point that is often forgotten. Whereas in days gone by, opinions expressed in the pub or home might be deemed hateful and could technically be deemed a breach of the law, the distance these individual statements and opinions circulated was minuscule. There was neither the need nor the ability to police such views, even if they were overtly racist or illegal in some other way. When such opinions were identified, through the print media, recorded, or witnessed by others, then actions were taken. Incitement to violence etc was often used as a legal recourse. You're old enough to recall how it was illegal to broadcast anything Sinn Fein spokespeople said, leading the BBC to use voice-overs in their broadcasts. I don't recall the Telegraph railing against the Orwellian nature of that particular law against speech and thought. What's changed is the fact that hateful sentiments can now be broadcast widely. The hate element definition hasn't changed so much, other than good old fashioned common sense being codified into law. ('Jew haters' is an offensive and hateful expression. It's good that we formally recognise this). The big change has been the need to police statements that can now do tremendous harm because of the medium in which they are expressed, whereas in the old days such statements were not capable of this harm. So it's completely natural and common sense that the police are now more active in this area, merely because technology makes this a more visible arena, and action is required to prevent social and individual harm. What we are seeing is not the extension of Orwellian thought police, but instead societies reaction to hateful expression being broadcast in the open. It's a natural and necessary reaction to advances in technology.
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Post by alec on Nov 17, 2024 11:22:15 GMT
Meanwhile, there have been alarm bells ringing within the infectious disease community for some time now regarding H5N1 bird flu. The recent farm based outbreaks have been spreading, with further human cases, but with limited evidence of human to human (H2H) spread. However, various mutations have been noted that appear to show the clock ticking on another human pandemic, and the response of the US authorities to this has been extremely poor.
Now the bells just got noticeable louder. A previously completely normal, health teenager is seriously ill in hospital in British Columbia with an H5N1 variant which has two mutations known to make H2H transmission far easier. The alarm here is that it had been hoped that as with the 2009 swine flu, the often observed trade off in flu between greater human transmissibility and reduced human severity may have been sidestepped in this case. No one actually knows. All we do know is that a healthy young person is in hospital fighting for their life with a flu variant that appears far more capable of rapid human transmission.
Covid remains deeply problematic for all manner of reasons. Studies out this week suggest the UK economy is losing £20bn a year because of long covid, and mortality data for the calendar year to date shows that there has been no improvement in age standardised mortality rates since 2019, the first time that has happened in the modern era, and deaths among 20-44 year olds are 2% higher than pre pandemic.
Overlaying a new bird flu pandemic onto this is not going to be pretty, especially given the way public health has been gutted through the 'let it rip' mentality.
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Post by alec on Nov 17, 2024 11:31:03 GMT
hireton - "The Guardian is also reporting on the funding of various groups which are said to be grassroots organisations of healthcare workers and others against assisted dying being funded by Christian lobbyists" Very important point. Just as numerous 'patient groups' campaigning for access to new - and very expensive - drug treatments often end up being financed by the pharmaceutical companies through back door financing routes, so the angst ridden campaign against a fundamental human right, fronted by disabled groups, is being funded by dark money originating from the same old shadowy far right christian fundamentalist sources that have done so much damage in other areas. Ignore and move on. These lives are ours to live, and ours alone to end. It's very simple.
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steve
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Post by steve on Nov 17, 2024 11:36:09 GMT
Interesting that the journalist at the centre of the " woke police " story has already threatened to sue fellow journalist James O'Brien for discussing what actually happened. I assume this is the fascist state that turk's worried about. It comes to something when a telegraph journalist can't say any load of old cobblers with out being called out. youtu.be/i9KfFEIjRFs?si=7YqaR_IFJJ4uYpMMPearson in one of her comments said. "Whatever I did or didn't tweet, if somebody found it offensive, that to me is still not a reason for two policemen to come to my house on a Sunday morning. "You know, they don't do that for burglars, do they? Well yes they do if they know where the burglars live that's how it works! They walk among us |
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Post by steve on Nov 17, 2024 12:08:30 GMT
With all the christofascist concerns about book reading turning children gay I would like to know as a grandpa why I'm neither a very hungry caterpillar or an owl baby!
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jib
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Post by jib on Nov 17, 2024 12:21:07 GMT
Perhaps Scholz could ring Putin again and ask him to stop it ? With the transfer of power in USA between the ineffectual and the unpredictable , political stasis in Germany & France , and the new EU commission approval mired in political disagreement , Putin must feel like a poacher when the gamekeeper is on holiday. I feel so desperately sorry for Ukraine and the way we have let it down. I hope to god we are not heading for another Afghanistan. Agree, Trump has also of course recently talked to Putin, telling him not to escalate in Ukraine That worked well... You can't negotiate with a murderous dictator, they only understand strength Sort of agree, but Trump isn't President yet. The Russian Leadership want their supporters to know / think they're on the front foot going into the imminent peace negotiations. How many thousands are going to get slaughtered in the last few weeks of this war? |
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Post by neilj on Nov 17, 2024 12:25:23 GMT
Agree, Trump has also of course recently talked to Putin, telling him not to escalate in Ukraine That worked well... You can't negotiate with a murderous dictator, they only understand strength Sort of agree, but Trump isn't President yet. The Russian Leadership want their supporters to know / think they're on the front foot going into the imminent peace negotiations. How many thousands are going to get slaughtered in the last few weeks of this war? If Putin isn't stopped, not as many as the number killed in the next war he starts Let's remember he has history in getting away with attacking countries and seizing land Appeasing him will only result in him doing the same again in the coming years |
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Post by leftieliberal on Nov 17, 2024 12:31:23 GMT
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Post by jib on Nov 17, 2024 13:05:09 GMT
Sort of agree, but Trump isn't President yet. The Russian Leadership want their supporters to know / think they're on the front foot going into the imminent peace negotiations. How many thousands are going to get slaughtered in the last few weeks of this war? If Putin isn't stopped, not as many as the number killed in the next war he starts Let's remember he has history in getting away with attacking countries and seizing land Appeasing him will only result in him doing the same again in the coming years Don't disagree that Putin needs to be boxed in and strapped down as part of the peace deal. There will have to be some carrot as well as carrying on just beating him with a stick will be counter productive. Sanctions should be released very gradually in reward for continued behaviour standards. Key thing is to get China and India on board and restablish international conventions on wars. I'm afraid that the West's misdeeds in the Middle East under Bush and Blair sort of set a tone that the United Nations can be ignored. |
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steve
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Post by steve on Nov 17, 2024 13:12:33 GMT
In shades of the lettuce's rants about British cheese the big event of the year for cheese manufacturers is the world cheese awards.
This year it took place in Portugal, over 250 cheese producers from 40 countries took part.
The British as a third nation brexity no mates unfortunately weren't able to compete for the prizes as their cheese was stuck in customs.
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Nov 17, 2024 13:25:11 GMT
If Putin isn't stopped, not as many as the number killed in the next war he starts Let's remember he has history in getting away with attacking countries and seizing land Appeasing him will only result in him doing the same again in the coming years Don't disagree that Putin needs to be boxed in and strapped down as part of the peace deal. There will have to be some carrot as well as carrying on just beating him with a stick will be counter productive. Sanctions should be released very gradually in reward for continued behaviour standards. So the same thing that was done when Putin invaded Georgia and Crimea Didn't work then and can't see it working now For me any peace deal must come with the right for Ukraine to join NATO. Only that, I think, would be likely to deter Putin from a third invasion of Ukraine |
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Post by leftieliberal on Nov 17, 2024 13:26:43 GMT
This is something that Starmer needs to remember; John Gray in New Statesman on Trump's victoryJ oe Biden gave the game away when he described Donald Trump’s supporters as “garbage” on 29 October, in the final days of Kamala Harris’s campaign. Presidential aides edited the transcript of his remarks by inserting apostrophes, suggesting they referred to a speaker at a pro-Trump Madison Square Garden rally rather than the majority of voters who have since given the former president a second term. Trump reacted by donning an orange safety vest and driving a garbage truck into a rally in Wisconsin, where he was greeted by followers in similar garb. Future historians may record the episode as a premonitory tremor of the landslide to come.
Even as he trashed Harris’s campaign, Biden voiced a sentiment felt by many progressive liberals. Dumbfounded by Trump’s indestructible popularity, they revile their fellow citizens who voted for him as ugly, irrational, unthinking creatures. Morally immaculate and blameless, the hyper-liberals that led the Democrats to devastating defeat are tragic victims of American racism and sexism.By alienating the working class, the Democrats forgot the first rule of politics: you need to be able to count. This was one of LBJ's aphorisms. |
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Post by leftieliberal on Nov 17, 2024 13:31:45 GMT
For me any peace deal must come with the right for Ukraine to join NATO. Only that, I think, would be likely to deter Putin from a third invasion of Ukraine Politics is the art of the possible; if you think that Putin will agree to Ukraine joining NATO, you are wishing for something that will never happen (or at least not until Russia also joins NATO, something that was seriously suggested after the fall of communism and before Putin was elected). |
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Post by graham on Nov 17, 2024 13:32:01 GMT
This is something that Starmer needs to remember; John Gray in New Statesman on Trump's victoryJ oe Biden gave the game away when he described Donald Trump’s supporters as “garbage” on 29 October, in the final days of Kamala Harris’s campaign. Presidential aides edited the transcript of his remarks by inserting apostrophes, suggesting they referred to a speaker at a pro-Trump Madison Square Garden rally rather than the majority of voters who have since given the former president a second term. Trump reacted by donning an orange safety vest and driving a garbage truck into a rally in Wisconsin, where he was greeted by followers in similar garb. Future historians may record the episode as a premonitory tremor of the landslide to come.
Even as he trashed Harris’s campaign, Biden voiced a sentiment felt by many progressive liberals. Dumbfounded by Trump’s indestructible popularity, they revile their fellow citizens who voted for him as ugly, irrational, unthinking creatures. Morally immaculate and blameless, the hyper-liberals that led the Democrats to devastating defeat are tragic victims of American racism and sexism.By alienating the working class, the Democrats forgot the first rule of politics: you need to be able to count. This was one of LBJ's aphorisms. 'Landslide to come' is nonsense! Trump now leads in the popular vote by just under 1.8%. To see what a landslide looks like, try looking at the results for 1984 - 1972 - 1964 - 1936. |
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jib
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Post by jib on Nov 17, 2024 13:41:26 GMT
Don't disagree that Putin needs to be boxed in and strapped down as part of the peace deal. There will have to be some carrot as well as carrying on just beating him with a stick will be counter productive. Sanctions should be released very gradually in reward for continued behaviour standards. So the same thing that was done when Putin invaded Georgia and Crimea Didn't work then and can't see it working now For me any peace deal must come with the right for Ukraine to join NATO. Only that, I think, would be likely to deter Putin from a third invasion of Ukraine The chances of Ukraine joining NATO are remote. It doesn't mean that NATO shouldn't be part of the peace keeping arrangements, but there's little chance they're getting Article 5 level of defence. That would really be red line territory for Russia. |
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Nov 17, 2024 13:47:48 GMT
So the same thing that was done when Putin invaded Georgia and Crimea Didn't work then and can't see it working now For me any peace deal must come with the right for Ukraine to join NATO. Only that, I think, would be likely to deter Putin from a third invasion of Ukraine The chances of Ukraine joining NATO are remote. It doesn't mean that NATO shouldn't be part of the peace keeping arrangements, but there's little chance they're getting Article 5 level of defence. That would really be red line territory for Russia. Agree and the reason is that they will have unfinished business in Ukraine and know if it joins NATO their territorial ambitions will be thwarted Of course if Russia really didn't intend to renew the war in the future it would be less of a redline |
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