steve
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Post by steve on Nov 16, 2024 16:22:16 GMT
Particularly if you take the blue pill.
I was going to take the blue pill, but something came up!
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pjw1961
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Post by pjw1961 on Nov 16, 2024 16:35:58 GMT
In a unrelated incident a telegraph journalist was facing a police investigation over another non hate crime when two policemen turned up at her home. I’m surprised you left wingers over Trumps appointments seem to be totally mute at what’s happening in the U.K. over your civil liberties. I confess to a certain amount of glee you have raised this issue as it is an excellent example of how right wing journalists get outraged about things they have simply made up. What happened is explained in the linked article below. In brief Allison Pearson of the Telegraph tweeted a photo with the statement: “Invited to pose for a photo with lovely peaceful British Friends of Israel on Saturday police refused. Look at this lot smiling with the Jew haters.” However in typical right wing style she had managed to get everything wrong. The police were not Met police but Greater Manchester. More importantly the group they were posing with had absolutely nothing to do with Palestine but were holding "the green and maroon flag ... used by supporters of the Pakistani political party Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf (PTI). It also, rather clearly, has the word “Pakistan” written on it." The PTI is Imran Khan's party. The dim-witted Pearson deleted the tweet when this was pointed out, but a Pakistani man, unrelated to the group in the photo, complained to the police that when Muslims are described as "Jew haters" and the like by mainstream figures they experience an uptick in racial abuse and another such had duly happened in this case. What Pearson needs to do is apologise for her horrible slur on innocent people. This she has entirely failed to do and is instead bleating about being a victim - for having screwed up very badly indeed. She should stop whining and print a correction and apology. www.theguardian.com/media/2024/nov/15/allison-pearson-jew-haters-tweet-is-at-centre-of-telegraphs-row-with-police |
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steve
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Post by steve on Nov 16, 2024 16:43:55 GMT
Unless the rapist undertakes recess appointments his absurdly unqualified pick for defence secretary Pete Hegseth will be questioned by the Senate armed services committee. Hegseth in addition to being a christofascist is also a misogynist and sees no place for females in combat. I'm sure senator Tammy Duckworth former lieutenant colonel and combat veteran who lost both her legs in Iran when the helicopter she was flying was hit by an RPG who's on the committee will be delighted to have a friendly chat! youtu.be/5GEv5MG8ep0?si=E6dcJX4KXOyIm50w |
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Nov 16, 2024 17:08:46 GMT
In a unrelated incident a telegraph journalist was facing a police investigation over another non hate crime when two policemen turned up at her home. I’m surprised you left wingers over Trumps appointments seem to be totally mute at what’s happening in the U.K. over your civil liberties. I confess to a certain amount of glee you have raised this issue as it is an excellent example of how right wing journalists get outraged about things they have simply made up. What happened is explained in the linked article below. In brief Allison Pearson of the Telegraph tweeted a photo with the statement: “Invited to pose for a photo with lovely peaceful British Friends of Israel on Saturday police refused. Look at this lot smiling with the Jew haters.” However in typical right wing style she had managed to get everything wrong. The police were not Met police but Greater Manchester. More importantly the group there were posing with had absolutely nothing to do with Palestine but were holding "the green and maroon flag ... used by supporters of the Pakistani political party Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf (PTI). It also, rather clearly, has the word “Pakistan” written on it." The PTI is Imran Khan's party. The dim-witted Pearson deleted the tweet when this was pointed out, but a Pakistani man, unrelated to the group in the photo, complained to the police that when Muslims are described as "Jew haters" and the like by mainstream figures they experience an uptick in racial abuse and another such had duly happened in this case. What Pearson needs to do is apologise for her horrible slur on innocent people. This she has entirely failed to do and is instead bleating about being a victim - for having screwed up very badly indeed. She should stop whining and print a correction and apology. www.theguardian.com/media/2024/nov/15/allison-pearson-jew-haters-tweet-is-at-centre-of-telegraphs-row-with-policeAnd she compounded her misdeeds by lying about what the Police said when she claimed they told her it was a non crime related hate incident www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/allison-pearson-tweet-essex-police-telegraph-b2648322.htmlEssex Police have confirmed to The Independent that the investigation was into an alleged criminal offence from the moment it began, not an NCHI. The force has now complained to the Independent Press Standards Organisation (IPSO) on a matter of factual accuracy. It also released the transcript of bodyworn video footage which was recorded during the conversation, in a bid to counter what they described as “false reporting” over the past week. The transcript shows an officer saying that the tweet has “gone down as an incident or offence of potentially inciting racial hatred online” Essex Police said it “supports free speech”, adding that it does “not support inaccuracy” in a thinly-veiled dig towards those who claimed the investigation was an NCHI. “If an alleged crime is reported it is investigated. There is no public interest in falsehood,” the force added. |
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pjw1961
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Post by pjw1961 on Nov 16, 2024 17:26:02 GMT
Unless the rapist undertakes recess appointments his absurdly unqualified pick for defence secretary Pete Hegseth will be questioned by the Senate armed services committee. Hegseth in addition to being a christofascist is also a misogynist and sees no place for females in combat. I'm sure senator Tammy Duckworth former lieutenant colonel and combat veteran who lost both her legs in Iran when the helicopter she was flying was hit by an RPG who's on the committee will be delighted to have a friendly chat! youtu.be/5GEv5MG8ep0?si=E6dcJX4KXOyIm50wI'm getting worried for Tulsi Gabbard, one of the couple of token woman in Trump's administration of lunatics. Admittedly she is probably safe from being trafficed by Matt Gaetz since he prefers his victims underage, but she will still need to beware of being 'grabbed by the pussy' by her new boss, sexually assaulted by Pete Hegseth or indeed having Elon Musk offer to inseminate her. Still perhaps she can get her chum Vladimir Putin to protect her and if she does come to harm RFK Jnr will be able to recommend any number of bogus quack remedies. Bye-bye America. |
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Post by turk on Nov 16, 2024 17:43:46 GMT
NeilJ
Once again you miss the point. What had her tweet to do with the police in the first place. That’s the point the police will investigate something which is against the law what you should ask yourself is why is tweeting something on line that may be offensive to someone a criminal offence.
You should also ask yourself why people have people been thrown in prison recently because of something they tweeted on line. Why are 9yr olds been spoken to by the police for saying something stupid. Why are teenage girls being interviewed in school by police for saying something hurtful to another pupil
The use of police as an exercise state power in badly drafted laws that should never have seen the light of day to investigate what amounts to be the use of words by individuals distasteful or not is in my view the beginning of a dystopian Orwellian society which begins with the state exercising control over individuals speech, the rewriting of history and the scapegoating of people by labelling them like right wing just because say they oppose immigration, as we have seen in the recent riots with Starmer promising to crack down on right wing extremists or indeed in the home office leaked report that label anybody protesting against immigration as right wing extremists even going as far as labelling grooming gangs as right wing extremists.
Now you may think all of that is perfectly all right except rather like 1984 what you should ask is who is next, it might be you.
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Nov 16, 2024 18:07:15 GMT
turk"Once again you miss the point" No you missed the point, she lied about what the Police said and tried to minimise what she did You may think some should be above the law, I don't. The Police had a responsibility to investigate possible illegality, she made that harder by telling lies
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steve
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Post by steve on Nov 16, 2024 18:43:29 GMT
turk The offence of “Wasting Police Time” most commonly occurs when a person wastes police time and resources by either reporting a fictional offence committed by a fictional person or by giving false information to the police during the course of an existing investigation.It's punishable by up to 3 months imprisonment. Alternatively there's obstructing police in the execution of their duty which includes lying to police officers or lying about their behaviour . That one carries a maximum sentence of one month imprisonment. But presumably it's ok if it's done by someone you agree with. You sure you don't support trump?
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steve
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Post by steve on Nov 16, 2024 18:52:44 GMT
pjw1961Interestingly former vice president Mike Pence has come out against the appointment of lunatic anti vaccination water makes children gay advocate Robert Kennedy. Which is fine until it's pointed out that his objection is because amongst the dross Kennedy comes out with he does support women's rights to control their own bodies. .
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Post by moby on Nov 16, 2024 19:32:38 GMT
NeilJ Once again you miss the point. What had her tweet to do with the police in the first place. That’s the point the police will investigate something which is against the law what you should ask yourself is why is tweeting something on line that may be offensive to someone a criminal offence. You should also ask yourself why people have people been thrown in prison recently because of something they tweeted on line. Why are 9yr olds been spoken to by the police for saying something stupid. Why are teenage girls being interviewed in school by police for saying something hurtful to another pupil The use of police as an exercise state power in badly drafted laws that should never have seen the light of day to investigate what amounts to be the use of words by individuals distasteful or not is in my view the beginning of a dystopian Orwellian society which begins with the state exercising control over individuals speech, the rewriting of history and the scapegoating of people by labelling them like right wing just because say they oppose immigration, as we have seen in the recent riots with Starmer promising to crack down on right wing extremists or indeed in the home office leaked report that label anybody protesting against immigration as right wing extremists even going as far as labelling grooming gangs as right wing extremists. Now you may think all of that is perfectly all right except rather like 1984 what you should ask is who is next, it might be you. I see Kemi Kaze has jumped on the bandwagon asking Starmer to change the hate laws. Shame the tories never took the opportunity to do this during the last 14 years they were in power! |
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Nov 16, 2024 20:19:56 GMT
Gareth Wyn Jones has just been on Sky news bemoaning the lot of small farmers as a result of iht changes implying he's one of them. Just as a fact check Mr Jones earns millions from his YouTube activities and other media outlets has a net worth estimated at £25'million and farms over 2000 acres with access to 27000 more, with 4000+ sheep. His family have owned estates in Wales for 375 years. Well he IS a small farmer compared to several Dukes with holdings around 100,000 acres each |
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Nov 16, 2024 20:26:08 GMT
Yes, lots of business has had insane economic policy thrust upon them, You mean, the covid lockdown policy, which aside from ordering them to close down for months led to world shortages of materials and fuel and then the burst of inflation in all sorts of prices? Indeed, but the issue is the Uk has become a low wage economy reliant upon cheap labour and immigrants to provide it. This is not sustainable, especially now we have left the EU. So we have to squeeze out the poorest paid jobs from the UK economy. Closing unprofitable businesses is the way we have to go. |
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Nov 16, 2024 20:36:08 GMT
But we are going for growth under Starmer and if we also continue high immigration levels we can greatly grow our economy and become an attractive economic prize that will cause a bidding war over us. (Possibly not in this universe though) I do wonder whether you are being ironic? Continued high immigration levels are most likely to lead to a Farage government at the next election. (cf president Trump) |
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Post by shevii on Nov 16, 2024 20:50:47 GMT
Opinium:
Lab 30 (-1)
Con 24 (-)
Ref 21 (+1)
LD 12 (+2)
Green 8 (-2)
SNP 3 (+1)
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graham
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Post by graham on Nov 16, 2024 21:27:05 GMT
Opinium: Lab 30 (-1) Con 24 (-) Ref 21 (+1) LD 12 (+2) Green 8 (-2) SNP 3 (+1) A slightly better poll for Labour - though it still implies that the party has lost circa 33% of those intending to support as recently as mid- June. |
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pjw1961
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Post by pjw1961 on Nov 16, 2024 21:32:36 GMT
NeilJ You should also ask yourself why people have people been thrown in prison recently because of something they tweeted on line. The use of police as an exercise state power in badly drafted laws that should never have seen the light of day Incitement to mass murder seems a perfectly reasonable thing to jail someone for, such as calling for a hotel full of people to be burnt down in the middle of a series of riots by violent thugs. And its hardly new that that is a criminal act. If I called for a hotel containing the Tory shadow cabinet to be burned down and them all murdered during the Tory conference (which, to be clear, I am not) while a riot was taking place you would presumably consider that to be just fine? Not sure why you are so keen to be on the side of violent thugs. I thought Tories were supposed to be the party of law and order? |
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Post by mercian on Nov 17, 2024 0:48:31 GMT
In a unrelated incident a telegraph journalist was facing a police investigation over another non hate crime when two policemen turned up at her home. I’m surprised you left wingers over Trumps appointments seem to be totally mute at what’s happening in the U.K. over your civil liberties. I confess to a certain amount of glee you have raised this issue as it is an excellent example of how right wing journalists get outraged about things they have simply made up. What happened is explained in the linked article below. In brief Allison Pearson of the Telegraph tweeted a photo with the statement: “Invited to pose for a photo with lovely peaceful British Friends of Israel on Saturday police refused. Look at this lot smiling with the Jew haters.” However in typical right wing style she had managed to get everything wrong. The police were not Met police but Greater Manchester. More importantly the group they were posing with had absolutely nothing to do with Palestine but were holding "the green and maroon flag ... used by supporters of the Pakistani political party Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf (PTI). It also, rather clearly, has the word “Pakistan” written on it." The PTI is Imran Khan's party. The dim-witted Pearson deleted the tweet when this was pointed out, but a Pakistani man, unrelated to the group in the photo, complained to the police that when Muslims are described as "Jew haters" and the like by mainstream figures they experience an uptick in racial abuse and another such had duly happened in this case. What Pearson needs to do is apologise for her horrible slur on innocent people. This she has entirely failed to do and is instead bleating about being a victim - for having screwed up very badly indeed. She should stop whining and print a correction and apology. www.theguardian.com/media/2024/nov/15/allison-pearson-jew-haters-tweet-is-at-centre-of-telegraphs-row-with-policeWhatever the rights and wrongs of the original tweet, and the story's obviously moved on since I last looked, doesn't it bother you in the least that the police originally wouldn't tell her what the problem was or who had complained? Very much like Kafka's 'The Trial'. I wonder what will happen when some MP makes a speech or does an interview endorsing gay rights and some random Muslim says he was offended? Nothing, I expect. |
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Nov 17, 2024 6:26:23 GMT
I confess to a certain amount of glee you have raised this issue as it is an excellent example of how right wing journalists get outraged about things they have simply made up. What happened is explained in the linked article below. In brief Allison Pearson of the Telegraph tweeted a photo with the statement: “Invited to pose for a photo with lovely peaceful British Friends of Israel on Saturday police refused. Look at this lot smiling with the Jew haters.” However in typical right wing style she had managed to get everything wrong. The police were not Met police but Greater Manchester. More importantly the group they were posing with had absolutely nothing to do with Palestine but were holding "the green and maroon flag ... used by supporters of the Pakistani political party Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf (PTI). It also, rather clearly, has the word “Pakistan” written on it." The PTI is Imran Khan's party. The dim-witted Pearson deleted the tweet when this was pointed out, but a Pakistani man, unrelated to the group in the photo, complained to the police that when Muslims are described as "Jew haters" and the like by mainstream figures they experience an uptick in racial abuse and another such had duly happened in this case. What Pearson needs to do is apologise for her horrible slur on innocent people. This she has entirely failed to do and is instead bleating about being a victim - for having screwed up very badly indeed. She should stop whining and print a correction and apology. www.theguardian.com/media/2024/nov/15/allison-pearson-jew-haters-tweet-is-at-centre-of-telegraphs-row-with-policeWhatever the rights and wrongs of the original tweet, and the story's obviously moved on since I last looked, doesn't it bother you in the least that the police originally wouldn't tell her what the problem was or who had complained? Very much like Kafka's 'The Trial'. I wonder what will happen when some MP makes a speech or does an interview endorsing gay rights and some random Muslim says he was offended? Nothing, I expect. But they did, Pearson lied about what they said The Police have said “Officers attended an address in Essex and invited a woman to come to a voluntary interview. They said it related to an investigation into an alleged offence of inciting racial hatred, linked to a post on social media" It's quite common when inviting people for an interview to give the offence and general nature of it, in the interview itself the full details of the allegation would be set out Nothing unusual in that at all, what the Police didn't say was that it was a non crime hate incident as Pearson claimed in all the interviews she's done, it was a lie by her. Indeed the Police went on to call out this lie The force said it “supports free speech” but “does not support inaccuracy” and added: “If an alleged crime is reported, it is investigated. There is no public interest in falsehood.” She should get no more or less rights than any other suspected criminal I also think she should apologise for the lies she told about the Police who visited her |
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Post by jib on Nov 17, 2024 7:07:48 GMT
The Pearson case is a interesting one on a lot of fronts, and certainly illustrates rapidly shifting sands on the issue of what is free speech and what is hate or intolerance.
Not sure it is an Orwellian response as some quarters are portraying, but it illustrates again the polarisation of debate on so many issues.
Throwing stones over the political fence at those who don't agree with you has always happened, it's just a digital world means it gets to everyone's attention not just the letters pages of a newspaper or the bar of your local boozer.
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Post by alec on Nov 17, 2024 7:17:28 GMT
jib - "The Pearson case is a interesting one on a lot of fronts, and certainly illustrates rapidly shifting sands on the issue of what is free speech and what is hate or intolerance." Personally I completely disagree. I've been around for over half a century and in all that time, my impression of the law is that if you accuse a completely innocent group of ethnic minority people of being "Jew Haters", completely falsely and without a scrap of evidence to back it up, you could expect some legal trouble. The idea that it's now OK to spill hatred and bile across published media and claim victimhood when you get called out on it is what is new. Only twats like turk and his ilk think are trying to twist this into something different.
Edit: I'd also add that the other new feature of this (new in modern times, at least) is the fact that mainstream print media outlets are happy to promote hatred like this, even when the originator of the statement got her facts so gloriously wrong a schoolgirl would have been embarrassed by making herself look so utterly stupid.
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Post by alec on Nov 17, 2024 7:26:08 GMT
Good news - www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c86qy500545oBuses are completely underrated as vehicles (ha!) for economic and social improvement. Johnson understood this, but then utterly failed to do anything useful. If Starmer & Reeves deliver this, it will have a whole series of unsexy, completely ignored by the media but very substantial national scale benefits. |
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Post by colin on Nov 17, 2024 7:51:48 GMT
The Pearson case is a interesting one on a lot of fronts, and certainly illustrates rapidly shifting sands on the issue of what is free speech and what is hate or intolerance. Not sure it is an Orwellian response as some quarters are portraying, but it illustrates again the polarisation of debate on so many issues. Throwing stones over the political fence at those who don't agree with you has always happened, it's just a digital world means it gets to everyone's attention not just the letters pages of a newspaper or the bar of your local boozer. There are some who have described NCHIs as Orwellian :- freespeechunion.org/an-orwellian-society-non-crime-hate-incidents-and-the-policing-of-speech/#:~:text=NCHIs%20are%20recorded%20after%20The cases mentioned in this article do seem bizarre :- thecritic.co.uk/the-return-of-non-crime-hate-incidents/....and 65 of such incidents recorded on average in E&W * every day implies an enormous amount of police time. And an enormous permanent ( ?) police record of something within the law that some one said which upset someone else. * According to FOI requests in 2019, the police in England and Wales had recorded 119,934 NCHIs since 2014-ie 24000 pa |
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Nov 17, 2024 8:02:16 GMT
I hide it well, but I think in the interests of transparency I should say I'm not a Trump fan In that light, I can't believe I'm saying this, but in fairness to Trump it's not as if he never gave any signals this is precisely what he'd do In addition during his last Presidency he banned Muslims coming to the US You didn't need to be Poirot to work out what he'd do Never ceases to amaze me how purists will vote against their self interests because they don't get everything they want from a particular party www.reuters.com/world/us/muslims-who-voted-trump-upset-by-his-pro-israel-cabinet-picks-2024-11-15/U.S. Muslim leaders who supported Republican Donald Trump to protest against the Biden administration's support for Israel's war on Gaza and attacks on Lebanon have been deeply disappointed by his cabinet picks, they tell Reuters. "Trump won because of us and we're not happy with his secretary of state pick and others," said Rabiul Chowdhury, a Philadelphia investor who chaired the Abandon Harris campaign in Pennsylvania and co-founded Muslims for Trump |
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Post by jib on Nov 17, 2024 8:09:28 GMT
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steve
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Post by steve on Nov 17, 2024 8:22:31 GMT
mercianIn the many years when I've questioned people I have never given them the name of a person making an allegation at first encounter. It's just not appropriate there may be nothing for police to investigate, it may be a mistake or misinterpretation by the informant they may be known to the person being questioned. Providing their details at a point where no further police activity is appropriate or necessary just causes unnecessary aggrevation for everyone. However as I mentioned above lying to the police regarding a potentially criminal act and confabulating an offence where no offence has taken place are both themselves potential criminal offences. Except of course if you're a telegraph journalist having a hissy fit.
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steve
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Post by steve on Nov 17, 2024 8:26:40 GMT
neiljI'd have never guessed you aren't a supporter of the racist, rapist, fascist maniac .You hide it as well as I do. "Trump won because of us and we're not happy with his secretary of state pick and others," "I never thought the leopard would eat my face" said the person who's just voted for the " Leopards who eat faces" party.
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Nov 17, 2024 9:12:07 GMT
Huge Russian air strikes on Ukraine today
At the same time Musk said Zelensky's
'Sense of humour was amazing' in response to Zelensky saying Ukraine was an independent country
Musk is a despicable person
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Post by colin on Nov 17, 2024 9:25:46 GMT
Huge Russian air strikes on Ukraine today At the same time Musk said Zelensky's 'Sense of humour was amazing' in response to Zelensky saying Ukraine was an independent country Perhaps Scholz could ring Putin again and ask him to stop it ? With the transfer of power in USA between the ineffectual and the unpredictable , political stasis in Germany & France , and the new EU commission approval mired in political disagreement , Putin must feel like a poacher when the gamekeeper is on holiday. I feel so desperately sorry for Ukraine and the way we have let it down. I hope to god we are not heading for another Afghanistan. |
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Post by shevii on Nov 17, 2024 9:33:39 GMT
Good news - www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c86qy500545oBuses are completely underrated as vehicles (ha!) for economic and social improvement. Johnson understood this, but then utterly failed to do anything useful. If Starmer & Reeves deliver this, it will have a whole series of unsexy, completely ignored by the media but very substantial national scale benefits. It's a weird set of policies where they announce a rise in capped fares and then the government appears to be giving sufficient money to reintroduce the £2 cap. Maybe this gives flexibility to areas to tailor their services to what they think is most important- ie more services or cheaper fares. I suppose some areas will be expensive on parking but where I live you can get car parking in the town centre for about £4 for a few hours or even a day and that's what buses are competing against so really a £1 flat fare with discounts for families is about the level at which different choices might be made. |
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Nov 17, 2024 9:33:41 GMT
Huge Russian air strikes on Ukraine today At the same time Musk said Zelensky's 'Sense of humour was amazing' in response to Zelensky saying Ukraine was an independent country Perhaps Scholz could ring Putin again and ask him to stop it ? With the transfer of power in USA between the ineffectual and the unpredictable , political stasis in Germany & France , and the new EU commission approval mired in political disagreement , Putin must feel like a poacher when the gamekeeper is on holiday. I feel so desperately sorry for Ukraine and the way we have let it down. I hope to god we are not heading for another Afghanistan. Agree, Trump has also of course recently talked to Putin, telling him not to escalate in Ukraine That worked well... You can't negotiate with a murderous dictator, they only understand strength |
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