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Post by xanadan on Jun 16, 2024 7:54:11 GMT
The Survation MRP survey has the following findings for Didcot & Wantage - Lab 29.5% LD 28.4% Con 27.8% I wonder how tactical voting will work out there! As a resolutely ABT denizen of said constituency I will almost certainly be voting LD though the tactical voting sites are withholding a recommendation until next week. Lab have very little presence here but the LDs are everywhere, dominating the district council, the poster war (seen only LD and Green posters hereabouts) and ground troops especially as the neighbouring constituency is Layla Moran's. We have a local county and district ward by-election here next week in our ward ( Sutton Courtenay) as the sitting LD has retired. Almost certain to remain LD though I'll probably vote for the Green candidate in the by-election. LD or Lab (in the unlikely event it seems the best ABT move) at the GE though of course. We've received a ton of LD leaflets, some tory ones in disguise but no Lab correspondence whatsoever. This focusing of resources becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, almost like an ABT pact! |
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Jun 16, 2024 8:02:23 GMT
Hitler improved housing, education, employment, a car for everyone, abolished hunting, improved training of doctors. Plus the roads of course. Redistributive tax policy favouring the poor. I think he ran up national debt a lot. All very reminiscent of demands nowadays. Oh, and i forgot boosting defence spending and getting tough with Russia? No he didn't. Total bullshit. Who told you that? Farage? It's all crap, but "a car for everyone"? Seriously? Madness... There was a scheme for workers to pay into where thr idea was they would eventually get a car (the original Volkswagen). Pretty sure no-one actually got one though. Most of these things were just superficial propaganda hype. I would block him and his provocations. Most others do. |
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Jun 16, 2024 8:07:43 GMT
jenObviously Danny is talking cobblers, but I think "the car for everyone" bit comes from VW who advertised the beetle as "the people's car" , post war it became the largest number sold of any car using a single platform in the world. But given there were less than a million cars of any manufacture in pre war Germany it's clearly not the case then. Ironically it was actually the British who got the Wolfsburg VW plant up and running apost war as it was in the British occupation zone and so helped to make the 'people's car' the iconic reality it became for decades after that. |
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Jun 16, 2024 8:18:36 GMT
No he didn't. Total bullshit. Who told you that? Farage? It's all crap, but "a car for everyone"? Seriously? Madness... There was a scheme for workers to pay into where thr idea was they would eventually get a car (the original Volkswagen). Pretty sure no-one actually got one though. Most of these things were just superficial propaganda hype. I would block him and his provocations. Most others do. I provided the source link, nazis had already constructed the factory to build the cars, but then WW2 intervened. Not that failing to deliver on policy is unusual in current political parties, promising but not delivering would rather be something the current parties have in common with nazis. Nazis were demonised because they lost WW2, and then subject to show trials. Had germany won then this quite likely would have played out in reverse. This isnt about whether their policies were right or wrong, its about how such things are never black and white until portrayed so by one or other propaganda machine. Again, just read what con have to say about lab, and vice versa. Objectively they cannot both be telling the truth. |
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Post by nickpoole on Jun 16, 2024 8:27:49 GMT
Nazis were demonised because they lost WW2  You have heard of the Holocaust? The death camps? The Final Solution? They were demonised because of what they fucking did, you twat. |
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Post by jen on Jun 16, 2024 11:55:44 GMT
No he didn't. Total bullshit. Who told you that? Farage? It's all crap, but "a car for everyone"? Seriously? Madness... I would block him and his provocations. Most others do. Exactly this. My mother, born in the 1920s, grew up in Nazi Germany, as did my uncles and aunts from that side of the family. My grandparents were stripped of their German citizenship, they miraculously avoided being "resettled" (it gives me the creeps when Tories and Refukkers use the term). I have talked to many people who went through the absolute hell. I know what I am talking about. And my grandfather hid a radio under the stairs, just like in that song by The Clash... |
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Post by jen on Jun 16, 2024 11:56:52 GMT
Nazis were demonised because they lost WW2 You have heard of the Holocaust? The death camps? The Final Solution? They were demonised because of what they fucking did, you twat. Exactly this. |
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Post by jen on Jun 16, 2024 11:59:00 GMT
There was a scheme for workers to pay into where thr idea was they would eventually get a car (the original Volkswagen). Pretty sure no-one actually got one though. Most of these things were just superficial propaganda hype. I would block him and his provocations. Most others do. I provided the source link, nazis had already constructed the factory to build the cars, but then WW2 intervened. Not that failing to deliver on policy is unusual in current political parties, promising but not delivering would rather be something the current parties have in common with nazis. Nazis were demonised because they lost WW2, and then subject to show trials. Had germany won then this quite likely would have played out in reverse. This isnt about whether their policies were right or wrong, its about how such things are never black and white until portrayed so by one or other propaganda machine. Again, just read what con have to say about lab, and vice versa. Objectively they cannot both be telling the truth. You disgust me. You are a holocaust denying Nazi-apologist piece of shit. Fuck off and die. |
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Jun 16, 2024 14:22:22 GMT
Deleted wrong thread
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Jun 16, 2024 17:57:41 GMT
Nazis were demonised because they lost WW2 You have heard of the Holocaust? The death camps? The Final Solution? They were demonised because of what they fucking did, you twat. Massacres are very common in history. WW1 and then WW2 marked a step change in attitudes to mass death in the west, and our attitudes to death are affected by that. Not that this ended with WW2, the Russians our allies, merrily carried on slaughtering millions after the war. They are today perfectly happy to dispose of every last Ukrainian who opposes them. Currently Israel is busy killing tens of thousands of Arabs, arguably in revenge on the principle if you harm me I shall return it ten fold. Another example, here is a web page arguing the british were responsible for 100,000,000 deaths in India between 1880 and 1920. www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/12/2/how-british-colonial-policy-killed-100-million-indians .I think they are arguing that this was largely due to exploitation and extracting wealth from the country leading to extreme poverty and people just starving. Jut how far away is that from what happened in Germany? Hitler was not particularly unusual historically speaking. What is unusual is our own dislike for death and torture as a tool of mass control. Another example, half a milion deaths consequent on the west invading iraq. www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-24547256 Googling attributes maybe 300,000 deaths caused by Sadam Hussein. So who was in the right there? Now that may be a little apples and oranges, how to account people who died in Iraq because of bad governance. But we really do not care much. We havnt seriously tried to help Ukraine, only up to the point it starts to get a bit inconvenient. Ukraine of course isnt a major oil producer (though it has significant undeveloped potential for a lot of things). Just so long as its them dying in the fighting, not us. |
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Post by robbiealive on Jun 19, 2024 9:03:27 GMT
c-a-r-f-r-e-w - "I think batty may be right, that Labour might be more radical than some may think, but of course the question arises as to how, esp. in a financially constrained situation." I actually think that to promote a more radical approach it's better to be in a position of fiscal constraint. That's when systemic change is required. New Labour achieved a considerable amount in power, but much of this was done on the back of strong economic performances and a stealth approach to generating government revenues (along with absorbing the aggregate benefits of mass migration). The systemic change was limited, and the narrative regarding tax and spend, and government intervention in general, remaining intact. This meant that when the inevitable downturn came, and public spending was constrained, the taps were turned off an most of the gains were erased. Starmer needs a different approach this time, and can actually use the fiscal situation as a driver for much of the change we need. In essence, he can hide behind the fact that there is no money to force through the kinds of short term sacrifices some will need to make to get to a more radical change. Whether he does this time will tell, but chucking money at problems is quite easy in the good times. Actually solving the problems is where we need to be now. Thanks. The key question is what Labour would do in office. The Refuseniks --- The can't-quite-bring-themselves-to-vote-Labour-and-boy-we-like-to-keep-telling-you crowd --- predict disappointment. Yr interesting model is that radical change is more probable when the fiscal situation is tight as now: though you don't specify the mechanisms for change. The historical record is against you , though there are two great past moments when radical change occurred. 1. Roosevelt,s New Deal, which was precipitated by a v deep recession. and one threatening, political collapse. This kept the Democrats in power for 20 years and a Republican acceptance of the N Deal for much longer. 2. Labour 1945-51, when in conditions of fiscal exigency a tremendous popular post-war demand for radicalism brought about systemic change and a British N Deal that lasted to Thatcher. Today seems v different The constant Labour cries of No Increase in Basic Tax or Vat, no mention of Wealth Taxes, Fiscal Discipline is our watchwor, etc indicates that the political "debate" is essentially still conducted in Thathcherite terms. If Labour are to be radical they would hv to escape Thatchers shadow, which is v long and darkens the prospect of radical change. |
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Jun 26, 2024 17:24:03 GMT
Average of the 9 MRP polls conducted so far gives a 256 Labour majority
For me these averages don't look outlandish
Lab 453
Con 92
Lib Dem 55
SNP 23
Reform 4
Plaid 3
Green 2
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