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Post by Rafwan on May 28, 2024 11:50:07 GMT
The point about her hypocrisy was that she had criticised other Labour politicians for doing exactly that. Agree, she was critical about Harman and Blair news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3229453.stmWhen Prime Minister Tony Blair sent his eldest son, Euan, to the London Oratory, a selective school, she criticised him, saying people voted Labour because they believed in equality. And when Solicitor General Harriet Harman sent her son to a selective grammar school in Orpington, Kent, Ms Abbott said: "She made the Labour Party look as if we do one thing and say another. Thanks, Neil. I had ‘conveniently’ forgotten about this. I do recall feeling a bit sniffy about Harriett and Blair at the time. But I also thought, then and now, that Abbott’s intervention was inappropriate. We were very lucky in that our daughter went to the local bog standard comp and thrived. But I always knew that if things went wrong for her, we would do whatever was necessary. But the elephant in this particular room is that Abbott’s son was a young black boy, putting him in a demographic that is widely recognised as educationally highly disadvantaged. Of course she should have been able to take whatever recourse she felt right and should not be censured for this. |
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neilj
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Post by neilj on May 28, 2024 11:52:03 GMT
Suggestions Boris Johnson will stand in Goves old seat
If that doesn't galvanise the ABT nothing will
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pjw1961
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Post by pjw1961 on May 28, 2024 11:53:47 GMT
Very amusing video of Ed Davey repeatedly falling off his paddle board on Lake Windermere. Had it been Sunak that would have been a disaster but Ed took it really well and just kept climbing back on. And falling off again… What is he doing up there? Are they worried about Farron's seat? I know there were boundary changes but he should be OK. |
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pjw1961
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Post by pjw1961 on May 28, 2024 11:55:48 GMT
Suggestions Boris Johnson will stand in Goves old seat If that doesn't galvanise the ABT nothing will He'd have to cancel his lucrative speaking engagements. I wonder if he could be bothered? |
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Post by bendo on May 28, 2024 11:55:55 GMT
Urgh, Kuenssberg to lead the BBC election coverage.
First time in my life I'll be watching it on another channel.
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neilj
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Post by neilj on May 28, 2024 11:57:18 GMT
Agree, she was critical about Harman and Blair news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3229453.stmWhen Prime Minister Tony Blair sent his eldest son, Euan, to the London Oratory, a selective school, she criticised him, saying people voted Labour because they believed in equality. And when Solicitor General Harriet Harman sent her son to a selective grammar school in Orpington, Kent, Ms Abbott said: "She made the Labour Party look as if we do one thing and say another. Thanks, Neil. I had ‘conveniently’ forgotten about this. I do recall feeling a bit sniffy about Harriett and Blair at the time. But I also thought, then and now, that Abbott’s intervention was inappropriate. We were very lucky in that our daughter went to the local bog standard comp and thrived. But I always knew that if things went wrong for her, we would do whatever was necessary. But the elephant in this particular room is that Abbott’s son was a young black boy, putting him in a demographic that is widely recognised as educationally highly disadvantaged. Of course she should have been able to take whatever recourse she felt right and should not be censured for this. I don't criticise her for sending her child to a private school, I do criticise her for attacking others who did it Also black boys do under perform, but so do white working class boys. Indeed a lot of under performance issues is ameliorated by being from a middle class family who's parents are well educated |
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Post by moby on May 28, 2024 12:03:27 GMT
I understand your point of view and have heard it expressed by members of my own family who then go on to express that they believe in a meritocracy which is clearly incompatible with buying your Children an advantage over other Children in terms of quality of Education and Contacts and Influence Provided by Public Schools generally. Middle Class Parents are very switched on to this in other ways as well, i guess it is understandable on a human level but those who do it need to acknowledge their part in perpetuating Inequality of Opportunity and Outcomes. Class Race or Sex, which has the most influence on where you end up in life? It's possible to disagree with private education and certainly the way in this country especially it enables a small minority taught in self-belief and entitlement to dominate so many professions and yet at the same time avoid judging those who understandably in many circumstances choose this for their children if they are able to. It's very hard for any parent to focus on the 'bigger picture' where the well-being of their children is concerned ie in the case of my wife's sister whose child was having a terrible time at his supposedly good state school and is now happy and thriving at a private school. I may dislike these schools but I can't judge that decision especially when I've seen the difference it made to him with my own eyes. Hopefully now state schools can get the resources they have so desperately needed for so long. Agree its a personal choice but there is really no justification for private schools to get tax breaks when their purpose is to keep privilege in the family. (The fact that Eton is a charitable institution, for example, mocks the idea of charity). Reforming education is also the most obvious way of creating more equality of opportunity. |
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Post by chrisc on May 28, 2024 12:04:14 GMT
Regarding schools Keir Starmer 's children go to state schools , so did Tony Blair's None of the last five Tory prime minister's who had children , Theresa May didn't have kids, were educated in state schools. I’m not sure we can say this with certainty about the offspring of our third last prime minister. Or do you have the list…. |
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Post by alberto on May 28, 2024 12:05:14 GMT
Thanks, Neil. I had ‘conveniently’ forgotten about this. I do recall feeling a bit sniffy about Harriett and Blair at the time. But I also thought, then and now, that Abbott’s intervention was inappropriate. We were very lucky in that our daughter went to the local bog standard comp and thrived. But I always knew that if things went wrong for her, we would do whatever was necessary. But the elephant in this particular room is that Abbott’s son was a young black boy, putting him in a demographic that is widely recognised as educationally highly disadvantaged. Of course she should have been able to take whatever recourse she felt right and should not be censured for this. You're damned if you do and damned if you don't
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Post by chrisc on May 28, 2024 12:08:05 GMT
Urgh, Kuenssberg to lead the BBC election coverage. First time in my life I'll be watching it on another channel. Surely it will be fun watching her having to comment on a Labour landslide? I suggest waiting till 10pm to make your final decision…. |
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Post by crossbat11 on May 28, 2024 12:11:41 GMT
I see the two big themes and issues of this General Election are now emerging. Will Jeremy Corbyn win in Islington North and was Diane Abbott right to send her child to a fee-paying school?
Meanwhile, the nation ponders trivia like the number of teachers in schools that the vast majority of children attend, the length of waiting lists in the NHS, the availability of dentists, the affordability and availability of housing, the availability of well paid and secure employment, measures to combat climate change, the state of our rivers and seas, the state of the union, do local authorities need more powers, the health of our democracy, our voting system, our relationship with the EU, the future of our defence and security.....
But can Corbyn win and will Abbott be given the Labour whip back?
I mean; for pity's sake. Literally, for pity's sake.
Just for five crucial weeks now, can't we put away childish things and free ourselves, just for a bit, from student politics?
This is serious now, these next five weeks and the decision to be taken on July 4th.
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pjw1961
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Post by pjw1961 on May 28, 2024 12:21:43 GMT
Urgh, Kuenssberg to lead the BBC election coverage. First time in my life I'll be watching it on another channel. Surely it will be fun watching her having to comment on a Labour landslide? I suggest waiting till 10pm to make your final decision…. You would think so, but I suspect she would move on to an 'objective' analysis of how dangerous Labour plans are and how they are bound to fail, with lots of aggressive questioning of various Labour spokespeople. |
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Post by crossbat11 on May 28, 2024 12:28:27 GMT
Urgh, Kuenssberg to lead the BBC election coverage. First time in my life I'll be watching it on another channel. Surely it will be fun watching her having to comment on a Labour landslide? I suggest waiting till 10pm to make your final decision…. Head to Channel 4 I suggest. Election coverage will be chaired by Emily Maitlis and punditry from, amongst others, Alistair Campbell and Rory Stewart. Wouldn't surprise me if Lewis Goodall and Jon Sopel make an appearance too. Nadine Dorries less likely! (Rather amusingly, my smartphone auto text converted Dorries to Dirties. A Freudian keyboard error!!) |
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neilj
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Post by neilj on May 28, 2024 12:33:31 GMT
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Post by mercian on May 28, 2024 12:41:33 GMT
Yes, I think I know what you're getting at, and you're no doubt right to detect racist undertones to much of the antipathy she seems to attract. She is an admirable human being in very many ways, albeit not a politician I've ever particularly admired or rated. But, of course, I'd like to think in a mature political climate that you can reasonably hold both those views simultaneously. There should be no mutual exclusivity in them. P S. For what it's worth, I held exactly the same bag of contrary opinions about Corbyn. Saw some personal qualities I quite admired, but didn't much rate him as a politician. This factor works the other way too. Quite a few Tory politicians who I don't much like personally but whose political gifts I recognise and respect. Good post. Yes racism together with misogyny, a particularly horribly mix. If you're going to assume that all criticism of a coloured politician is racist or criticism of a female politician is misogynist, can we at least have some consistency? What about the criticism that Suella Braverman for instance gets on this board and elsewhere. Or is that different somehow? |
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pjw1961
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Post by pjw1961 on May 28, 2024 12:42:54 GMT
My word, that audience look enthused  |
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neilj
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Post by neilj on May 28, 2024 12:46:06 GMT
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steve
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Post by steve on May 28, 2024 12:47:43 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2024 12:49:30 GMT
This is serious now, these next five weeks and the decision to be taken on July 4th. Is it? What will meaningfully change on July 5th? Silly thing to say. On the day, nothing. Over the next months and years then I expect substantial change to occur. |
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2024 12:50:55 GMT
Good post. Yes racism together with misogyny, a particularly horribly mix. If you're going to assume that all criticism of a coloured politician is racist or criticism of a female politician is misogynist, can we at least have some consistency? What about the criticism that Suella Braverman for instance gets on this board and elsewhere. Or is that different somehow? Of course it is. She is critiqued - rightly - for what she says and what she advocates. |
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Post by jayblanc on May 28, 2024 12:56:45 GMT
Urgh, Kuenssberg to lead the BBC election coverage. First time in my life I'll be watching it on another channel. Surely it will be fun watching her having to comment on a Labour landslide? I suggest waiting till 10pm to make your final decision…. My reflex is to assume that Kuenssberg will try to amp up the "Possibility of a surprise come back!" in order to keep up her life long commitment to presenting politics like a football match. |
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Post by Mark on May 28, 2024 13:01:11 GMT
Re - Diane Abbott - This increasingly appears to be a blatantly racist witch hunt. If she is not allowed to stand, I hope she publicly condemns Starmer as a racist - as evidenced by the double standards apparent from his embrace of Elphicke into the party. She should make herself available to the broadcasters every day right up to July 4th. While I agree that there are double standards re-embracing Elphicke and, as I have said before, this worries me in regard to the future direction and values of Labour...and I also agree that Diane Abbot has been mistreated, I don't believe it has anything to do with race and everything to do with her closeness to Corbyn. There are plenty of cases where racism - and sexism - has played a central part in the abuse that Diane Abbot has got - and continues to get. This is not one of them. Mistreatment, yes, racism, no. I also have to say that false allegations of racism only hinder cases where racism exists. Fighting racism is something we should all be doing, it is about equality and justice. It is not a 'card' to be played. While I wrote this post with my member hat on, wearing my *** ADMIN *** hat, I have to say that such false allegations are not something that I want to see on here. |
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Post by barbara on May 28, 2024 13:01:45 GMT
Thanks, Neil. I had ‘conveniently’ forgotten about this. I do recall feeling a bit sniffy about Harriett and Blair at the time. But I also thought, then and now, that Abbott’s intervention was inappropriate. We were very lucky in that our daughter went to the local bog standard comp and thrived. But I always knew that if things went wrong for her, we would do whatever was necessary. But the elephant in this particular room is that Abbott’s son was a young black boy, putting him in a demographic that is widely recognised as educationally highly disadvantaged. Of course she should have been able to take whatever recourse she felt right and should not be censured for this. I don't criticise her for sending her child to a private school, I do criticise her for attacking others who did it Also black boys do under perform, but so do white working class boys. Indeed a lot of under performance issues is ameliorated by being from a middle class family who's parents are well educated Class (and contacts) are far more important in school achievement than gender or race. Hence all the black and Asian people in Rishi's cabinet. |
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Post by joeboy on May 28, 2024 13:07:11 GMT
graham MADRID, May 28 (Reuters) - Spain, Ireland and Norway will officially recognise a Palestinian state on Tuesday, despite an angry reaction from Israel, which has found itself increasingly isolated after seven months of conflict in Gaza. But the announcement came last week. Today was the formal announcement, and means the process for receiving ambassadors e.t.c can start. The link below shows the flags of Palestine, Ukraine and the EU flying proud outside Leinster House. www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2024/0528/1451568-ireland-recognition-palestine/ |
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Danny
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Post by Danny on May 28, 2024 13:09:52 GMT
I'm always slightly puzzled by the accusation that it's hypocritical of leftwing politicians to send their children to private schools. The point about her hypocrisy was that she had criticised other Labour politicians for doing exactly that. Ah, much better pint (if its as simple as that, of course. But there is more rejoicing in heaven about a sinner repentant...someone who came to realise its absolutely right to do the best you can for your kids. |
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domjg
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Post by domjg on May 28, 2024 13:10:18 GMT
It's possible to disagree with private education and certainly the way in this country especially it enables a small minority taught in self-belief and entitlement to dominate so many professions and yet at the same time avoid judging those who understandably in many circumstances choose this for their children if they are able to. It's very hard for any parent to focus on the 'bigger picture' where the well-being of their children is concerned ie in the case of my wife's sister whose child was having a terrible time at his supposedly good state school and is now happy and thriving at a private school. I may dislike these schools but I can't judge that decision especially when I've seen the difference it made to him with my own eyes. Hopefully now state schools can get the resources they have so desperately needed for so long. Agree its a personal choice but there is really no justification for private schools to get tax breaks when their purpose is to keep privilege in the family. (The fact that Eton is a charitable institution, for example, mocks the idea of charity). Reforming education is also the most obvious way of creating more equality of opportunity. Completely agree, no justification whatsoever for tax breaks/charity status. These are businesses and I would be very happy to see private education completely phased out over time. |
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Danny
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Post by Danny on May 28, 2024 13:13:40 GMT
Very amusing video of Ed Davey repeatedly falling off his paddle board on Lake Windermere. Had it been Sunak that would have been a disaster but Ed took it really well and just kept climbing back on. And falling off again… Havnt seen it, but thats what Johnon has too, ability to laugh at himself and be the but of the joke. Total reverse of policy? So what? |
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Danny
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Post by Danny on May 28, 2024 13:16:05 GMT
Suggestions Boris Johnson will stand in Goves old seat If that doesn't galvanise the ABT nothing will Is that desperation trying to find candidates or a U turn? |
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Danny
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Post by Danny on May 28, 2024 13:20:21 GMT
This is serious now, these next five weeks and the decision to be taken on July 4th. Is it? What will meaningfully change on July 5th? Its easy to say that, because labour and all pundits seem to acknowledge the economic situation is dire. Or at least, the consensus on tax and spend is leading to government bancruptcy. But compared to the last 14 years of conservative rule, the preceding labour years were a golden age. |
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neilj
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Post by neilj on May 28, 2024 13:20:39 GMT
Mega poll alert
The Redfield Wilton poll coming out later asked 12,000 people across Britain how they will vote on 4 July.
Although above a certain number I'm not sure how much benefit it is to the overall Voting Intention figures. But the regional and demographic cross breaks are likely to be more informative
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