steve
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Post by steve on May 28, 2024 9:59:48 GMT
grahamMADRID, May 28 (Reuters) - Spain, Ireland and Norway will officially recognise a Palestinian state on Tuesday, despite an angry reaction from Israel, which has found itself increasingly isolated after seven months of conflict in Gaza.
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Post by graham on May 28, 2024 10:01:05 GMT
Re - Diane Abbott - This increasingly appears to be a blatantly racist witch hunt. If she is not allowed to stand, I hope she publicly condemns Starmer as a racist - as evidenced by the double standards apparent from his embrace of Elphicke into the party. She should make herself available to the broadcasters every day right up to July 4th.
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Post by graham on May 28, 2024 10:02:09 GMT
graham MADRID, May 28 (Reuters) - Spain, Ireland and Norway will officially recognise a Palestinian state on Tuesday, despite an angry reaction from Israel, which has found itself increasingly isolated after seven months of conflict in Gaza. But the announcement came last week. |
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Post by Rafwan on May 28, 2024 10:02:30 GMT
crossbat11 Oh, I think we all know why Abbott faces more vitriol than any other MP in the HoC. It's not merely a left/right issue. Yes, I think I know what you're getting at, and you're no doubt right to detect racist undertones to much of the antipathy she seems to attract. She is an admirable human being in very many ways, albeit not a politician I've ever particularly admired or rated. But, of course, I'd like to think in a mature political climate that you can reasonably hold both those views simultaneously. There should be no mutual exclusivity in them. P S. For what it's worth, I held exactly the same bag of contrary opinions about Corbyn. Saw some personal qualities I quite admired, but didn't much rate him as a politician. This factor works the other way too. Quite a few Tory politicians who I don't much like personally but whose political gifts I recognise and respect. Good post. Yes racism together with misogyny, a particularly horribly mix. |
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steve
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Post by steve on May 28, 2024 10:10:25 GMT
grahamIt's not my concern who Labour allow to join but Elphicke won't be an MP after tomorrow and won't be standing again. As someone of mixed race I think the accusation of perceived racism when it isn't really there undermines the many instances , such as the abuse aimed at Ms Abbott , where it is a real contributing factor. I'm sure you'd like her to condemn Starmer as a racist but: It's total cobblers And It's hardly likely to get her re-elected for her seat by the deadline next week is it.
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domjg
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Post by domjg on May 28, 2024 10:11:11 GMT
Re - Diane Abbott - This increasingly appears to be a blatantly racist witch hunt. If she is not allowed to stand, I hope she publicly condemns Starmer as a racist - as evidenced by the double standards apparent from his embrace of Elphicke into the party. She should make herself available to the broadcasters every day right up to July 4th. If you want a tory gvt just vote tory graham ok? |
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steve
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Post by steve on May 28, 2024 10:11:24 GMT
"But the announcement came last week."
Yes! And?
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Post by jib on May 28, 2024 10:14:28 GMT
Like all parents, Diane Abbott is free to educate her son in whatever way she sees fit. This deeply personal and family matter is nobody else’s business whatsoever. In her case, the reasons are stark staringly obvious to anyone who cares to own their eyes. You become a public figure, you get judged by the public. Live with the consequences. End of. |
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steve
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Post by steve on May 28, 2024 10:17:37 GMT
As a police officer I've had the odd " you're only stopping me because I'm black thrown at me " along with " you're only stopping me because you're a paki! " Go figure.
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Post by mark61 on May 28, 2024 10:19:20 GMT
I don't think that hypocrisy is a good reason for kicking someone out. I'm always slightly puzzled by the accusation that it's hypocritical of leftwing politicians to send their children to private schools. Almost all parents want their child to go to the school that's best for her or him and will do what they reasonably can to make that happen. Most parents don't have the financial means to make much of a choice, but Diane Abbott did and she chose the school she thought would be best for her child. One could argue that MPs could and should send their children to a local state school and then use their influence to improve that school - all local schools - but I'm not sure that's possible and even if it were, improvement wouldnn't be instantaneous, so the child's happiness and prospects would still be sacrificed to the parent's political ambitions. Damaging your own child's prospects of happiness to make a political point is despicable and hopefully extremely rare. However politicians do sometimes move address so that their child will qualify for a place in a good school - potentially depriving another child, with parents on a lower income, from benefiting. Save the accusations of hypocrisy for them. Of course I expect leftie politicians to work to ensure that every child can fulfil his or her potential within the state system, but we're a long way from there and I'm not going to condemn anyone who does the best they can for their own child. I went to my local state school and it was 5 years of hell that I would rather kill myself than go through again, if my parents had had the means to send me elsewhere and declined to do so I would never have forgiven them. I understand your point of view and have heard it expressed by members of my own family who then go on to express that they believe in a meritocracy which is clearly incompatible with buying your Children an advantage over other Children in terms of quality of Education and Contacts and Influence Provided by Public Schools generally. Middle Class Parents are very switched on to this in other ways as well, i guess it is understandable on a human level but those who do it need to acknowledge their part in perpetuating Inequality of Opportunity and Outcomes. Class Race or Sex, which has the most influence on where you end up in life? |
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Post by Rafwan on May 28, 2024 10:19:32 GMT
Not when the “public judgments” are wild nonsense. Now ‘end of’.
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Post by graham on May 28, 2024 10:19:38 GMT
Re - Diane Abbott - This increasingly appears to be a blatantly racist witch hunt. If she is not allowed to stand, I hope she publicly condemns Starmer as a racist - as evidenced by the double standards apparent from his embrace of Elphicke into the party. She should make herself available to the broadcasters every day right up to July 4th. If you want a tory gvt just vote tory graham ok? I don't want a Labour racist/mysoginistic government any more than a Tory racist/mysoginistic government. Perhaps you care little about such matters , but if you do I suggest that you hope that Starmer shows a bit of human decency here. Abbott has the potential here to do Starmer a fair bit of damage - and it is his own fault for having allowed the issue to drag on for so long. If it arises, I hope she seizes the opportunity to undermine him - payback time' will have arrived at a time providing Abbot with quite a bit of leverage.
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pjw1961
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Post by pjw1961 on May 28, 2024 10:21:15 GMT
Re - Diane Abbott - This increasingly appears to be a blatantly racist witch hunt. If she is not allowed to stand, I hope she publicly condemns Starmer as a racist - as evidenced by the double standards apparent from his embrace of Elphicke into the party. She should make herself available to the broadcasters every day right up to July 4th. I am not happy about Abbott's trearment, but I don't see anything racist about it at all. It is political, based on Corbyn, Abbott and McDonnell being the three main faces of the left's period of control. The latter has been wise enough to give no excuse for his removal, but Corbyn and Abbott did and it was seized on. Nothing to do with race. |
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Post by graham on May 28, 2024 10:27:34 GMT
Re - Diane Abbott - This increasingly appears to be a blatantly racist witch hunt. If she is not allowed to stand, I hope she publicly condemns Starmer as a racist - as evidenced by the double standards apparent from his embrace of Elphicke into the party. She should make herself available to the broadcasters every day right up to July 4th. I am not happy about Abbott's trearment, but I don't see anything racist about it at all. It is political, based on Corbyn, Abbott and McDonnell being the three main faces of the left's period of control. The latter has been wise enough to give no excuse for his removal, but Corbyn and Abbott did and it was seized on. Nothing to do with race. That may be so but the card can still be played - as can the mysoginistic card. Were I in her position I would use both -if I had to - so as to maximise damage to Starmer. |
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steve
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Post by steve on May 28, 2024 10:28:02 GMT
Abbott's treatment seems somewhat akin to that of Corbyn.
I hadn't realised Jeremy was a proud black independent woman.
If Abbott is permitted to stand it will of course give the far right client media someone to follow around in the hope of a gaff.
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Post by graham on May 28, 2024 10:31:05 GMT
Abbott's treatment seems somewhat akin to that of Corbyn. I hadn't realised Jeremy was a proud black independent woman. If Abbott is permitted to stand it will of course give the far right client media someone to follow around in the hope of a gaff. That would also now happen were she to run as an Independent. |
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Post by leftieliberal on May 28, 2024 10:36:06 GMT
I don't think that hypocrisy is a good reason for kicking someone out. I'm always slightly puzzled by the accusation that it's hypocritical of leftwing politicians to send their children to private schools. The point about her hypocrisy was that she had criticised other Labour politicians for doing exactly that. |
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Post by Rafwan on May 28, 2024 10:39:33 GMT
I'm always slightly puzzled by the accusation that it's hypocritical of leftwing politicians to send their children to private schools. The point about her hypocrisy was that she had criticised other Labour politicians for doing exactly that. Where? |
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2024 10:40:57 GMT
For a so called christian Graham is .the nastiest, most vengeful person I’ve ever come across. He seems full of hate, given his pronouncements on so many other people.
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neilj
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Post by neilj on May 28, 2024 10:49:22 GMT
I'm always slightly puzzled by the accusation that it's hypocritical of leftwing politicians to send their children to private schools. The point about her hypocrisy was that she had criticised other Labour politicians for doing exactly that. Agree, she was critical about Harman and Blair news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3229453.stmWhen Prime Minister Tony Blair sent his eldest son, Euan, to the London Oratory, a selective school, she criticised him, saying people voted Labour because they believed in equality. And when Solicitor General Harriet Harman sent her son to a selective grammar school in Orpington, Kent, Ms Abbott said: "She made the Labour Party look as if we do one thing and say another. |
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Post by chrisc on May 28, 2024 10:49:30 GMT
Re - Diane Abbott - This increasingly appears to be a blatantly racist witch hunt. If she is not allowed to stand, I hope she publicly condemns Starmer as a racist - as evidenced by the double standards apparent from his embrace of Elphicke into the party. She should make herself available to the broadcasters every day right up to July 4th. I am not happy about Abbott's trearment, but I don't see anything racist about it at all. It is political, based on Corbyn, Abbott and McDonnell being the three main faces of the left's period of control. The latter has been wise enough to give no excuse for his removal, but Corbyn and Abbott did and it was seized on. Nothing to do with race. Abbot has indeed been quiet so far. What price her elevation to the HoL along with other diversity candidates as a reward if Labour have a large majority. Or am I too cynical? She is actually more worthy than at least 95% of those recently ennobled and would at least turn up and do some work. It would be a good reward for all the unjustified hate she has received over the years. Whether she’d want the honour or not I am not so sure. But she doesn’t strike me as someone who would follow the Graham route to self immolation. And she’s politically savvy enough to know that attacking Starmer herself would have the opposite effect that Graham thinks it will. Just as supporting Corbyn now would get her expelled from the party as indeed Corbyn did to Alistair Campbell. |
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Post by graham on May 28, 2024 11:01:58 GMT
For a so called christian Graham is .the nastiest, most vengeful person I’ve ever come across. He seems full of hate, given his pronouncements on so many other people. An interesting view which you are entitled to - though I doubt that those who know me would recognize that comment. Where some see 'vengeance' , others see'justice'. When a person has been a victim of 'injustice' - and I am clear that Abbott has - he or she has every right to seek justice and to fight back. I have always been inclined to take on authority figures who abuse their positions of power and authority - not just politicians but policemen and schoolmasters. I probably did this for the first time back in May 1968 when a 'stand in' master - who had been a Canon at St Davids cathedral - at my strict Boys Grammar School hit me firmly over the head with Library book I ought not to have been reading. On my way home that afternoon, I walked into the local Police Station and reported the master - on the basis that such behaviour was not authorised corporal punishment and amounted to 'common assault'. I also rang the local press - and commentary appeared the following week. I was then sumoned to the Headmaster's study , and he proceeded to bollock me.When given a chance to speak, I drew his attention to the fact that 25 - 30 fellow pupils had witnessed the incident and made it clear that I would happily have them summoned or subpoenad if necessary. At the time I was a few weeks off reaching the age of 14.
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domjg
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Post by domjg on May 28, 2024 11:14:12 GMT
I'm always slightly puzzled by the accusation that it's hypocritical of leftwing politicians to send their children to private schools. Almost all parents want their child to go to the school that's best for her or him and will do what they reasonably can to make that happen. Most parents don't have the financial means to make much of a choice, but Diane Abbott did and she chose the school she thought would be best for her child. One could argue that MPs could and should send their children to a local state school and then use their influence to improve that school - all local schools - but I'm not sure that's possible and even if it were, improvement wouldnn't be instantaneous, so the child's happiness and prospects would still be sacrificed to the parent's political ambitions. Damaging your own child's prospects of happiness to make a political point is despicable and hopefully extremely rare. However politicians do sometimes move address so that their child will qualify for a place in a good school - potentially depriving another child, with parents on a lower income, from benefiting. Save the accusations of hypocrisy for them. Of course I expect leftie politicians to work to ensure that every child can fulfil his or her potential within the state system, but we're a long way from there and I'm not going to condemn anyone who does the best they can for their own child. I went to my local state school and it was 5 years of hell that I would rather kill myself than go through again, if my parents had had the means to send me elsewhere and declined to do so I would never have forgiven them. I understand your point of view and have heard it expressed by members of my own family who then go on to express that they believe in a meritocracy which is clearly incompatible with buying your Children an advantage over other Children in terms of quality of Education and Contacts and Influence Provided by Public Schools generally. Middle Class Parents are very switched on to this in other ways as well, i guess it is understandable on a human level but those who do it need to acknowledge their part in perpetuating Inequality of Opportunity and Outcomes. Class Race or Sex, which has the most influence on where you end up in life? It's possible to disagree with private education and certainly the way in this country especially it enables a small minority taught in self-belief and entitlement to dominate so many professions and yet at the same time avoid judging those who understandably in many circumstances choose this for their children if they are able to. It's very hard for any parent to focus on the 'bigger picture' where the well-being of their children is concerned ie in the case of my wife's sister whose child was having a terrible time at his supposedly good state school and is now happy and thriving at a private school. I may dislike these schools but I can't judge that decision especially when I've seen the difference it made to him with my own eyes. Hopefully now state schools can get the resources they have so desperately needed for so long. |
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Post by barbara on May 28, 2024 11:19:06 GMT
For a so called christian Graham is .the nastiest, most vengeful person I’ve ever come across. He seems full of hate, given his pronouncements on so many other people. I've said this before. If I were ever thinking there might be a god, then it certainly wouldn't be the one that Graham worships. |
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steve
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Post by steve on May 28, 2024 11:23:32 GMT
Regarding schools Keir Starmer 's children go to state schools , so did Tony Blair's
None of the last five Tory prime minister's who had children , Theresa May didn't have kids, were educated in state schools.
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Post by graham on May 28, 2024 11:31:39 GMT
For a so called christian Graham is .the nastiest, most vengeful person I’ve ever come across. He seems full of hate, given his pronouncements on so many other people. I've said this before. If I were ever thinking there might be a god, then it certainly wouldn't be the one that Graham worships. Well - the three charities to which I have bequeathed the entirety of my Estate may have a different view. I have found it the ideal way to avoid Inheritance Tax. Was I wrong as a schoolboy to stand up for myself?
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Post by moby on May 28, 2024 11:36:53 GMT
Like all parents, Diane Abbott is free to educate her son in whatever way she sees fit. This deeply personal and family matter is nobody else’s business whatsoever. In her case, the reasons are stark staringly obvious to anyone who cares to own their eyes. You become a public figure, you get judged by the public. Live with the consequences. End of. From my contact with her on the North London Labour chicken dinner fundraising events I got the impression Diane Abbott was an attention seeking self publicist. She was the type of person who wasn't really interested in people but did like gazing around the room to see if people were looking at her. She loved her time on the Neill show with Portillo as her 'foil' and often recounted stories about her experiences. I heard she was often so caught up in controversy that this sucked the energy out of her abilities to represent her constituents. |
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2024 11:40:07 GMT
Very amusing video of Ed Davey repeatedly falling off his paddle board on Lake Windermere. Had it been Sunak that would have been a disaster but Ed took it really well and just kept climbing back on.
And falling off again…
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2024 11:42:23 GMT
I've said this before. If I were ever thinking there might be a god, then it certainly wouldn't be the one that Graham worships. Well - the three charities to which I have bequeathed the entirety of my Estate may have a different view. I have found it the ideal way to avoid Inheritance Tax.
Gosh, so unlike you to boast about these private decisions. |
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Post by graham on May 28, 2024 11:49:03 GMT
Well - the three charities to which I have bequeathed the entirety of my Estate may have a different view. I have found it the ideal way to avoid Inheritance Tax.
Gosh, so unlike you to boast about these private decisions. So unlike you to be rude about others.
I have faced some criticism for my decision re-legacies. However, I do not consider myself to be self-centred or materialistic. I do stand up against Injustice and have represented others at Tribunals and other Hearings without charge.
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