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Post by RAF on May 26, 2024 20:45:17 GMT
A thought occured to me. While my own bias may lead to seeing it more, it seems that, only a few days in, the tories have made more gaffes than any party would ever make during the whole campaign. The thing is this...they are not stupid...well, not all of them...and whatever else you think of him, Sunak certainly isn't. "Oh, but, he's not good at campaigning..." - not even Theresa May made this many obvious gaffes. The natural conclusion that lends itself, therefore, is.... Are they delibarately trying to lose? If the answer is yes, the next question has to be....is there something coming down the line that they know about but we don't - and if so, what? I'm afraid they really are....just incompetent. The BoJo steadies the ship but as soon as the rats threw him overboard..... Bojo self-polorised the Tories' fortunes. He was the driving force behind their 2019 victory, and subsequently crashed and burned so disastrously that he left them facing certain defeat at the next GE when he was forced out. |
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Post by bedknobsandboomstick on May 26, 2024 20:49:03 GMT
Fag packet maths on The Policy:
30 million voters turning out;
24% Conservative vote share
=7.2m Tory voters
8m households with children in the UK.
Say 14m parents including some single parent families.
Say 60% turnout for a 25 to 55ish age range.
= 8.4m parents voting.
Say 18% of that age range intend to vote Con
= 1.5m parents voting Tory who are now worried that their offspring are at risk on compulsary service.
That's 5% of total voters or 20% of the Tory vote share who are now suddenly a lot less likely to vote Tory.
Happy to be corrected on any erroneous numbers above.
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Post by jib on May 26, 2024 20:51:01 GMT
I'm afraid they really are....just incompetent. The BoJo steadies the ship but as soon as the rats threw him overboard..... Johnson threw himself overboard. Any other interpretation is rewriting history. But you are correct that Sunak and his advisors are incompetent. I don't actually agree with that. Johnson was knifed by his own party. I didn't like the charlatan, but I concede he was an election winner. Sunak is anything but. |
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domjg
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Post by domjg on May 26, 2024 20:57:18 GMT
Johnson threw himself overboard. Any other interpretation is rewriting history. But you are correct that Sunak and his advisors are incompetent. I don't actually agree with that. Johnson was knifed by his own party. I didn't like the charlatan, but I concede he was an election winner. Sunak is anything but. He was no longer an election winner by the time of his departure for very well known reasons which is why he was jettisoned. |
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
Posts: 8,572
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Post by pjw1961 on May 26, 2024 21:02:44 GMT
Johnson threw himself overboard. Any other interpretation is rewriting history. But you are correct that Sunak and his advisors are incompetent. I don't actually agree with that. Johnson was knifed by his own party. I didn't like the charlatan, but I concede he was an election winner. Sunak is anything but. By lying to parliament in a blatant way he left many Tories who would have liked to keep him with no choice but to conclude he had to go. He then resigned knowing he was toast. There was no Tory plot. Entirely his own doing and no-one else's. |
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neilj
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Post by neilj on May 26, 2024 21:08:10 GMT
The Commons Privileges Committee concluded that Johnson lied to and deliberately misled the House of Commons over Partygate, misled the Committee themselves during the hearing, and acted in contempt of the Committee itself through a "campaign of abuse and intimidation"
He could have never stayed on as an MP and rather than face a recall petition, which he would of lost, he jumped ship
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Dave
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... I'm dreaming dreams, I'm scheming schemes, I'm building castles high ..
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Post by Dave on May 26, 2024 21:15:28 GMT
So far, i can't see any consistency at all to Sunak's approach to this election. Nor can I but maybe we should have expected this. Throughout his premiership how many relaunches did Sunak have? How many supposed Sunak re-sets were there? How long did each ofd them last on average? My personal, favourite (as in a "wtf, really"?!?! kind of way) was the "I am change" one. By the time my initial uncontrollable laughter at the very thought of his cheek in claiming that one had finally subsided, he'd already ditched that one and moved on Sunak v27 or whatever it was at the time. For someone who sold himself as being their steady Eddie after Johnson and Truss, I personally don't see him as the personification of steadiness. So apparently trying a reset about three days into the election that he called is just what he does. And it's what he has to do, as absolutely nothing seems to work for him. |
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Post by crossbat11 on May 26, 2024 21:15:53 GMT
"I didn't like the charlatan but....."
"BoJo steadied the ship..."
You couldn't make this stuff up.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2024 21:22:24 GMT
"I didn't like the charlatan but....." "BoJo steadied the ship..." You couldn't make this stuff up. Someone is adrift in their own, strange reality. All utter bollocks of course. |
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Post by alec on May 26, 2024 21:24:05 GMT
pjw1961 - "I'm with graham on Wimbledon. Labour will win it easily." Blimey. It took eight decades for Andy Murray to end the run, but now you think we'll have another British winner so soon?
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Post by jib on May 26, 2024 21:24:08 GMT
"I didn't like the charlatan but....." "BoJo steadied the ship..." You couldn't make this stuff up. Someone is adrift in their own, strange reality. All utter bollocks of course. Purely observations sonny. |
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neilj
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Post by neilj on May 26, 2024 21:25:07 GMT
Alex Wickham Bloomberg
'Exclusive: Rishi Sunak is considering requiring future applicants for public sector jobs to have completed National Service
It’s one of the enforcement options that would go to the Royal Commission for consideration if he gets to enact the policy"
So someone wants to be a firefighter, nurse, police officer, prison officer, doctor etc can't serve the public unless they have already served the public...Still it's not as if it's difficult to fill those jobs is it...
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Post by jib on May 26, 2024 21:26:31 GMT
"I didn't like the charlatan but....." "BoJo steadied the ship..." You couldn't make this stuff up. The Tories won the election is 2019 under him. They would actually be opponents worth taking seriously if he were still in charge. I'll leave you and Sonny to your sardonic fun. |
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Post by laszlo4new on May 26, 2024 21:27:29 GMT
Hi Lazlo - I wish you would post more often. We could do with the variety. I will, just life became a bit too overwhelming, and my mind couldn't really add useful thoughts. But I read the comments and hopefully I will be able to contribute. And thank you pjw1961 |
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Post by crossbat11 on May 26, 2024 21:29:41 GMT
"I didn't like the charlatan but....." "BoJo steadied the ship..." You couldn't make this stuff up. Someone is adrift in their own, strange reality. All utter bollocks of course. The UKPR Hall of Mirrors. Now you see me, now you don't. Catch me if you can. You think you know me, think again. I run with the fox, now watch me hunt with the hounds. It's all a game in the end. You say what you really mean and tell us what you really think? More fool you sonny. |
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Post by alec on May 26, 2024 21:33:37 GMT
This kind of unraveling of a policy announcement direct from the PMs mouth indicates the depths of incompetence that Sunak's regime has sunk to - www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/may/26/rishi-sunaks-national-service-pledge-is-bonkers-says-ex-military-chiefIt's just embarrassing for your first big election announcement to be described by seasoned veterans as 'bonkers' and have it picked apart as unworkable and sucking cash out of defence budgets, 48hrs after the current armed forces minister said they had no plans to do this and when your main attack line against Labour is that they would usher in an era of, err..chaos. Shambolic. |
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Post by jib on May 26, 2024 21:36:08 GMT
Someone is adrift in their own, strange reality. All utter bollocks of course. The UKPR Hall of Mirrors. Now you see me, now you don't. Catch me if you can. You think you know me, think again. I run with the fox, now watch me hunt with the hounds. It's all a game in the end. You say what you really mean and fell us what you really think? More fool you sonny. I offer observations, they may ebb and flow with the political wind, but I'm no Tory enabler. However, the Tories made a very grievous mistake in getting rid of Johnson. They turned a retrievable deficit in the summer of 2022 into a chasm of defeat.  |
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
Posts: 8,572
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Post by pjw1961 on May 26, 2024 21:45:17 GMT
Alex Wickham Bloomberg 'Exclusive: Rishi Sunak is considering requiring future applicants for public sector jobs to have completed National Service It’s one of the enforcement options that would go to the Royal Commission for consideration if he gets to enact the policy" So someone wants to be a firefighter, nurse, police officer, prison officer, doctor etc can't serve the public unless they have already served the public...Still it's not as if it's difficult to fill those jobs is it... The NHS currently has over 125,000 vacancies. The man is so far removed from reality as to be operating in another dimension altogether. |
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oldnat
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Extremist - Undermining the UK state and its institutions
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Post by oldnat on May 26, 2024 21:45:29 GMT
I offer observations, they may ebb and flow with the political wind, but I'm no Tory enabler. However, the Tories made a very grievous mistake in getting rid of Johnson. They turned a retrievable deficit in the summer of 2022 into a chasm of defeat. |
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steve
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Post by steve on May 26, 2024 21:47:49 GMT
Despite protestations to the contrary.
Spaffer got rid of himself by routinely lying to parliament and getting caught.
If he hadn't run away the inevitable recall petition would have seen him thrown out.
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Post by jib on May 26, 2024 21:52:43 GMT
Despite protestations to the contrary. Spaffer got rid of himself by routinely lying to parliament and getting caught. If he hadn't run away the inevitable recall petition would have seen him thrown out. No, no , no! Sunak stitched up the Parliamentary inquiry to get him out of Parliament. Johnson should have done the Major trick of calling a confidence vote by resigning in the summer 2022. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2024 21:53:45 GMT
I offer observations, they may ebb and flow with the political wind, but I'm no Tory enabler. However, the Tories made a very grievous mistake in getting rid of Johnson. They turned a retrievable deficit in the summer of 2022 into a chasm of defeat. Careful - you might get called sonny as well next. Which is, of course, dead scary.😧 |
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Post by jib on May 26, 2024 21:58:51 GMT
 Anyway, this sums up the Tory Party (courtesy of the Telegraph) 
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Post by mercian on May 26, 2024 22:03:40 GMT
c-a-r-f-r-e-w Is that Thatcher just before the Tories booted her out? How about this for comparison… Although she's not in uniform I'd be much more scared of Maggie. She looks like a warrior queen whereas Truss looks like a kid playing dress-up. Where did these silly ideas of politicians having to pretend they can do certain trades, or enjoy a pint or a bacon sandwich when they're on campaign come from? I suppose there's always been an element of being seen to be campaigning ever since photography was invented, but it seems to have descended into farce now. It's like watching The Generation Game which (just in case there's anyone too young to remember) involved contestants trying to copy professionals at some task. No-one cares whether Sunak can lay bricks or Miliband eat a bacon sandwich or any number of politicians able to drink beer without grimacing. It's just an opportunity to look stupid. Starmer seems to have avoided most of this nonsense so far in his usual cautious way, so well done him. |
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pjw1961
Member
Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
Posts: 8,572
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Post by pjw1961 on May 26, 2024 22:04:14 GMT
Despite protestations to the contrary. Spaffer got rid of himself by routinely lying to parliament and getting caught. If he hadn't run away the inevitable recall petition would have seen him thrown out. No, no , no! Sunak stitched up the Parliamentary inquiry to get him out of Parliament. Johnson should have done the Major trick of calling a confidence vote by resigning in the summer 2022. So another great lost leader, brought down only by the plotting of his colleagues, not by any personal shortcomings - Johnson and Corbyn could form a club. Your take on the privileges committee is bonkers. Just a reminder: "The Committee found that Boris Johnson had deliberately misled the House and “committed a serious contempt of the House.”" commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9554/ |
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Post by mercian on May 26, 2024 22:05:23 GMT
The idea we could actually organise the volunteering and that it then wouldn’t cause more disruption in work places than offer anything positive seems most unlikely to me. (Excuse crap sentence construction) Yes, I was thinking that when the NHS was mentioned as a place to volunteer. The last thing the NHS needs is untrained young people wandering around with nothing to do, even assuming they wanted to be there. There are virtually no roles that can be done safely without extensive induction and training. Daft. Portering? |
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
Posts: 8,572
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Post by pjw1961 on May 26, 2024 22:09:57 GMT
Yes, I was thinking that when the NHS was mentioned as a place to volunteer. The last thing the NHS needs is untrained young people wandering around with nothing to do, even assuming they wanted to be there. There are virtually no roles that can be done safely without extensive induction and training. Daft. Portering? Nope - Porters constantly interact with patients. it is essential that they receive training in child safeguarding, adult safeguarding, mental health awareness, dementia awareness and a whole raft of other things including (sorry mercian) diversity and equality training. All takes time and money. Not something for people working the odd weekend. Porters are a vital part of the hospital team. |
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Post by mercian on May 26, 2024 22:10:02 GMT
The 18-24 group has, according to a YouGov poll, only 9% support for the Conservatives. Maybe they are playing some kind of psychological games - disgust that group enough that they won't bother voting at all. However, with the recent polling on intention to vote showing an increase for that age group, it looks more like encouraging them to vote - but for any other party. Perhaps their campaign team really are infiltrators from other political parties, as some have (tongue in cheek) suggestedMy suggestion wasn't tongue in cheek. I was genuinely wondering. It's not impossible. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2024 22:10:25 GMT
Yes, I was thinking that when the NHS was mentioned as a place to volunteer. The last thing the NHS needs is untrained young people wandering around with nothing to do, even assuming they wanted to be there. There are virtually no roles that can be done safely without extensive induction and training. Daft. Portering? Pottying?? |
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Post by mercian on May 26, 2024 22:13:58 GMT
Nope - Porters constantly interact with patients. it is essential that they receive training in child safeguarding, adult safeguarding, mental health awareness, dementia awareness and a whole raft of other things including (sorry mercian) diversity and equality training. All takes time and money. Not something for people working the odd weekend. Porters are a vital part of the hospital team. They are indeed important but do you really need all that training to push a wheelchair from point A to point B? All they would need in reality if you strip away all the bureaucratic nonsense is a map of the hospital and a panic button if something happens that they can't handle. |
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Anyway, this sums up the Tory Party
