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Post by hireton on May 25, 2024 8:46:30 GMT
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patrickbrian
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These things seem small and undistinguishable, like far off mountains turned into clouds
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Post by patrickbrian on May 25, 2024 8:47:24 GMT
I was never much of a fan, but if I lived in Islington I'd vote for Jeremy Corbyn. Shamefully mis-treated by his party!
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Post by Mark on May 25, 2024 8:53:10 GMT
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Post by leftieliberal on May 25, 2024 9:00:20 GMT
I read somewhere (on here?) that Blair was told about the problems when he was PM. If so the problem isn't solely that of the Conservatives or the Coalition. Though they can of course be blamed for dragging their feet. I hope someone goes to prison over this, but very much doubt if they will. One bit I caught was where one of the KCs seemed to nail her on lying to a H0C committee which I understand is taken very seriously. Bit early for Blair? The problems for sub postmasters may indeed have begun whilst he was still PM, but I don't think the suspicion about how badly flawed Horizon was came until near the end of that government? I think the Computer Weekly article (2019) arguably marked the real turning point? After that anyone really should have been asking questions. (Which is why Ed Davey comes out of this arguably worse than any other government figure, he was minister in charge right at the most critical time. ) The Computer Weekly article was 2009, not 2019, so it was in Gordon Brown's time as Prime Minister. Ed Davey was the first minister to see the protesters, so deserves some credit not the blame for a scandal that had been brewing since John Major was Prime Minister. |
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Post by jib on May 25, 2024 9:11:21 GMT
Bit early for Blair? The problems for sub postmasters may indeed have begun whilst he was still PM, but I don't think the suspicion about how badly flawed Horizon was came until near the end of that government? I think the Computer Weekly article (2019) arguably marked the real turning point? After that anyone really should have been asking questions. (Which is why Ed Davey comes out of this arguably worse than any other government figure, he was minister in charge right at the most critical time. ) The Computer Weekly article was 2009, not 2019, so it was in Gordon Brown's time as Prime Minister. Ed Davey was the first minister to see the protesters, so deserves some credit not the blame for a scandal that had been brewing since John Major was Prime Minister. Sorry, no one's buying that. The accusation against Ed Davey, possibly Vince Cable too, is that they buried the debate around Horizon in order to expedite the privatisation of Royal Mail. www.computerweekly.com/news/366586242/Paula-Vennells-boasted-about-removing-Horizon-risk-reference-in-Royal-Mail-flotation-prospectus |
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Danny
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Post by Danny on May 25, 2024 9:13:18 GMT
I read somewhere (on here?) that Blair was told about the problems when he was PM. If so the problem isn't solely that of the Conservatives or the Coalition. Though they can of course be blamed for dragging their feet. I hope someone goes to prison over this, but very much doubt if they will. One bit I caught was where one of the KCs seemed to nail her on lying to a H0C committee which I understand is taken very seriously. The system was conceived under the Major government in order to catch benefit cheats. The social security people than apparently devised different ways to do that, but the PO was left with this project anyway. It has cost a huge amount of money and it sound like there was no economic case for it once you removed catching benefit fraud. It seems to have cost about as much as the total subsidy given to the post office during the same time. While the concentration has been on the postmaster's wrongful convictions, it started out as altogether a massive waste of public money. But it should have been apparent something was wrong even in the first 5 years it was in operation, so thats back in the last labour government. Perhaps not obvious to government, but certainly should have been internally. Vennelles came late to all this, there was clearly a problem before she was hired. You could even imagine she was brought in either as a clean pair of hands to sort it, or to become the scapegoat and relieve existing employees of blame. |
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Post by leftieliberal on May 25, 2024 9:13:28 GMT
Meanwhile in Middle East newsOther videos show Israeli vigilantes stopping lorries in Jerusalem and demanding that drivers show papers proving they are not transporting aid to Gaza. Their faces are uncovered and they appear to be acting with complete impunity.
In the West Bank, at least two drivers who were not carrying goods bound for Gaza were dragged from their cabs and beaten.One really has to ask why the Israeli police and army are doing nothing to stop this.
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steve
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Post by steve on May 25, 2024 9:14:25 GMT
crossbat11 Little correction on your portrayal of the Labour candidate in Islington he isn't a private healthcare owner his mother a world renowned fertility expert Prof. Geeta Nargund is the CEO and Founder of CREATE Fertility it is the fastest growing IVF company in the world. Praful is her 27 year old son and works in their family business. This is what they have to say about it. "Praful: My mum re-mortgaged our family home to open the first clinic in Wimbledon. We proved that mild IVF boasts the same success rate as the other kind. Then, in 2013, she decided to grow the company. Since then, we’ve become one of the largest operators in the UK, with eight clinics treating thousands of patients. Geeta: We don’t just offer IVF with less drugs, we’re also passionate about making it affordable. We just launched a programme that is half the price of standard IVF. Our dream to help every woman and couple that needs fertility treatment to access safer, more natural and affordable treatment" Here's a link to their web site sounds like a worthwhile organisation doing important work, I don't see why his involvement in an area of fertility treatment would be a negative particularly as Create fertility is fully funded by the NHS for those eligible. www.createfertility.co.uk/
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steve
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Post by steve on May 25, 2024 9:18:03 GMT
"Sorry, no one's buying that."
Correction the Tory client media and Tory apologists with a grudge against the liberal democrats aren't
Given that the management at the post office appears to have lied to everyone else it's a bit of a reach to assume that they wouldn't have lied to Ed Davey or Vince Cable in the short period they had involvement.
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steve
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Post by steve on May 25, 2024 9:19:13 GMT
"One really has to ask why the Israeli police and army are doing nothing to stop this."
Because they're doing it as well.
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Post by barbara on May 25, 2024 9:22:38 GMT
Claim to fame, just been on LBC phone in talking to Mathew Wright about how many leaders should be on the TV leaders debate ooh I normally listen to that but I've been in the garden. I'll listen on catch up. Do you know what time? I was on a few years ago when James O'B was asking why recent working class immigrants' pupils tend to attain better results in school than indigenous working class pupils. |
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Post by jib on May 25, 2024 9:24:39 GMT
"Sorry, no one's buying that." Correction the Tory client media and Tory apologists with a grudge against the liberal democrats aren't Given that the management at the post office appears to have lied to everyone else it's a bit of a reach to assume that they wouldn't have lied to Ed Davey or Vince Cable in the short period they had involvement. You wish. We remember. Even had a blue tie back then. Good lad.  |
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steve
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Post by steve on May 25, 2024 9:24:52 GMT
"I'll listen on catch up. Do you know what time?"
Why would Neil know what time you are in the Garden?
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Danny
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Post by Danny on May 25, 2024 9:25:45 GMT
Henry Hill (deputy editor of Conservative Home) is saying on Sky that most Tory MPs are furious with Sunak. They and their staff have 6 weeks in which to find alternative employment. This was in answer to a comment that no Tories have come out in support of Sunak I suspect when Sunak first said there would be no election until the second half of the year, he was already thinking about midsummer. What little I know about him suggest he is a detail planner, and the economic outlook has persistenly suggested an improvement before a deterioration again. Specifically inflation dipping but then rising again. Maybe a tiny interest rate drop but then no more. The just announced energy price fall, which however is only for three summer months of low demmand before going up even higher for the autumn/winter. The OBR and IMF are both skeptical about the government budget, theres loads of bills waiting in the wings and its looking increasingly like an autumn budget would have been spending cuts accompanied by tax rises, which given the cynical expectation of tax cuts before every election would have been taken as an indicator of true disaster. Whereas Hunt managed a teeny giveaway in the spring (aimed at the rich half), the classic pre election giveaway.
However, strategically better to make everyone think it would be later so that hopefully opponents would not be prepared. Since half the MPs could not really be trusted with a secret, presumably they werent told and were indeed expecting another six months in their well paid jobs. The flip side of them not being trusted is likely they hadnt mentioned an intention to quit politics, thus leading to some candidate chaos now.
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steve
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Post by steve on May 25, 2024 9:25:51 GMT
Bless he's got his memory box open.
I'm not engaging further on this it's pointless and tedious for everyone.
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steve
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Post by steve on May 25, 2024 9:28:31 GMT
"Why would Neil know what time you are in the Garden?"
Have you found any flower heads lying about.
Maybe you have a stalker🤔
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
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Post by pjw1961 on May 25, 2024 9:37:39 GMT
pjw1961 You cite as evidence extracts from a news medium whose job is to exploit perceived divisions in the Labour Party for its stories. Fine, but it does not remotely answer the question I put and I expected more of you. The Independent? Really? Anyway, you can read it for yourself in Hansard unfiltered. The role of the Leader of the Opposition when a hostile foreign power uses chemical weapons on British soil is to speak for all the people who voted for that party not just himself. He or she is representing a sizable chunk of the nation in a time of crisis. Read what Ian Blackford said for the SNP; that is exactly what Jeremy Corbyn should have said in those circumstances. It is also helpful to read Vince Cable for the Lib Dems, and instructive to read the interventions by backbench Labour MPs. hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2018-03-14/debates/071C37BB-DF8F-4836-88CA-66AB74369BC1/SalisburyIncidentThis is the last I shall say on this matter. |
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Danny
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Post by Danny on May 25, 2024 9:38:24 GMT
Bit early for Blair? The problems for sub postmasters may indeed have begun whilst he was still PM, but I don't think the suspicion about how badly flawed Horizon was came until near the end of that government? I think the Computer Weekly article (2019) arguably marked the real turning point? Computer weekly started investigating in 2008, but did not publish until they felt they had cast iron evidence in 2009. Alan Bates first wrote to them (and presumably others) in 2004. www.computerweekly.com/feature/Post-Office-Horizon-scandal-explained-everything-you-need-to-knowThe PO initial tactic was to tell any postmaster seeking help that no one else was having these sorts of problems. Simply having ordered its staff to do this means it was clearly aware there were systemic problems with horizon, which they were trying to cover up. They knew there were far too many people having problems for it all to be crime or even bad luck. Back in 2003 if a postmaster threatened to bring in IT experts, the PO dropped those cases. They clearly knew their system could not withstand expert scrutiny. Whether these problems had been notified formally to the labour government, or even as a chat between head of PO and minister/civil servant, we have yet to discover evidence. There is totally no excuse for this coverup of the problem by the conservative government. They had the opportunity for a clean slate start sorting it out, but instead they decided to keep it quiet because they wanted to sell off the whole lot. |
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Danny
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Post by Danny on May 25, 2024 9:39:42 GMT
Back gardens are important. Discourage people from using too many chemicals and encourage them to have wildish corners. My garden for instance has a wide variety and thriving population of slugs and snails. Bastard wildlife eat all my soft fruit. |
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
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A step on the way toward the demise of the liberal elite? Or just a blip…
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on May 25, 2024 9:41:45 GMT
pjw1961 You cite as evidence extracts from a news medium whose job is to exploit perceived divisions in the Labour Party for its stories. Fine, but it does not remotely answer the question I put and I expected more of you. The Independent? Really? . I used to post some of the examples of anti-left bias from Graun and Indy. Was quite shocked by it in the run up to 2019 GE, where they might do four hit-pieces a day, worse than the Telegraph even. (They were rather spooked by 2017 and didn’t seem keen to let that happen again). |
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Danny
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Post by Danny on May 25, 2024 9:46:59 GMT
The nearest smidgen of hope for the Tories must be the 2017 campaign when then Tory unelected prime minister Theresa May decided the best way to campaign was not to turn up, magic grandad didn't have the same issue, a Tory lead of around the same margin as now reduced to less than 3% over six weeks. May deliberately campaigned on delivering a hard brexit. Which must have been a surprise to all the people who voted leave expecting a soft brexit. She knew what she was doing, she intended to offer the nation another chance to change its mind. |
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Post by lefthanging on May 25, 2024 9:49:29 GMT
I was on a few years ago when James O'B was asking why recent working class immigrants' pupils tend to attain better results in school than indigenous working class pupils. So why do they??  |
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
Member
A step on the way toward the demise of the liberal elite? Or just a blip…
Posts: 6,700
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on May 25, 2024 9:51:55 GMT
Back gardens are important. Discourage people from using too many chemicals and encourage them to have wildish corners. My garden for instance has a wide variety and thriving population of slugs and snails. Bastard wildlife eat all my soft fruit. You mean you help out the wildlife 👍 |
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Post by bardin1 on May 25, 2024 9:53:44 GMT
I was on a few years ago when James O'B was asking why recent working class immigrants' pupils tend to attain better results in school than indigenous working class pupils. So why do they?? My one word answer would be 'aspiration' |
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Danny
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Post by Danny on May 25, 2024 9:59:32 GMT
Regarding refukers not having a refukee to vote for , some will vote tory no doubt , some will vote for the Brexit lite Labour party and oddly enough the nimby credentials of the greens also attract them, I don't expect many crossovers to the lib dems☺ Reform seem to be gathering ABC voters, possibly many of whom are also ABL. I havnt seen any polling, but it would not amaze me if they might end up lib, especially where this is the realistic opposition to con and lab. This is a situation where the lib con coalition might assist libs because it boosted their right wing credentials - something up to now rather a liability. |
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Post by James E on May 25, 2024 10:00:58 GMT
Many thanks for that. Looking at these figures and the notional figures for the new boundaries, there may be more close contests than I had expected. However, I think the result is 95%+ certain in 15 of the 18 seats in Northern Ireland. The three that I think may change hands are: East Belfast, Alliance challenging DUP Foyle, SF challenging SDLP South Antrim, UUP challenging DUP (but Alliance may also have a slim chance) If all three of these changes happen, the seats total would be: SF 8 (+1) DUP 6 (-2) All 2 (+1) SDLP 1 (-1) UUP 1 (+1) |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2024 10:04:11 GMT
pjw1961 You cite as evidence extracts from a news medium whose job is to exploit perceived divisions in the Labour Party for its stories. Fine, but it does not remotely answer the question I put and I expected more of you. The Independent? Really? Anyway, you can read it for yourself in Hansard unfiltered. The role of the Leader of the Opposition when a hostile foreign power uses chemical weapons on British soil is to speak for all the people who voted for that party not just himself. He or she is representing a sizable chunk of the nation in a time of crisis. Read what Ian Blackford said for the SNP; that is exactly what Jeremy Corbyn should have said in those circumstances. It is also helpful to read Vince Cable for the Lib Dems, and instructive to read the interventions by backbench Labour MPs. hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2018-03-14/debates/071C37BB-DF8F-4836-88CA-66AB74369BC1/SalisburyIncidentThis is the last I shall say on this matter. Corbyn-worship still lingers on in pockets. I couldn’t stand the man. |
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steve
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Post by steve on May 25, 2024 10:04:44 GMT
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Danny
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Post by Danny on May 25, 2024 10:06:26 GMT
Interesting to compare Sunak's rather inexpert bricklaying with Winston Churchill, who as a private hobby to relax built a massive brick wall all round his own garden at Chartwell. |
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neilj
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Post by neilj on May 25, 2024 10:09:44 GMT
Claim to fame, just been on LBC phone in talking to Mathew Wright about how many leaders should be on the TV leaders debate ooh I normally listen to that but I've been in the garden. I'll listen on catch up. Do you know what time? I was on a few years ago when James O'B was asking why recent working class immigrants' pupils tend to attain better results in school than indigenous working class pupils. Around 9.30am, give or take 5 minutes or so, Neil from Hereford |
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