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Post by graham on Jan 8, 2024 21:24:05 GMT
JPR Williams has died at 74.
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Post by hireton on Jan 8, 2024 21:40:42 GMT
Reports that the UK Government is not going to move the 2nd Reading of its offshore oil and gas licensing bill tonight as was planned. If so, that's shambolic and suggests they were not confident of winning the vote.
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Post by isa on Jan 8, 2024 21:44:07 GMT
No Powell and Pressburger films? Hey, I'd watch Powell and Pressburger every day of the week and twice on Sundays. 'A Matter of Life and Death' in particular is one of my all-time favourites. However, my remit was accessible films for someone whose English is excellent, but not their first language, and I therefore omitted some films which I felt might be a little too idiomatic. I made some hard choices!
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oldnat
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Extremist - Undermining the UK state and its institutions
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Post by oldnat on Jan 8, 2024 21:46:32 GMT
Having finally finished clearing [1] 50 years worth of junk from the loft (plus the boxes transferred from my wife's old family loft to ours without selection - some papers dating back to the 1920s) and topping up the insulation, I've added my average YG Scots samples numbers for December. With only 2 YG polls that month, any changes from the end of November are minimal.
SNP 36% : SGP 6% Con 16% : REFUK 4% Lab 30% : LD 7%
[1] Almost all of it went for recycling. Our local coup (amenity centre to you) didn't have a special skip for the mountains of paper and was told to put it into general waste. On recovering from my eco-shock and saying I wanted it recycled, I was told it would be - "It all goes on to conveyor belts and is sorted so that landfill is minimised. We are one of the few councils to do that!", the guy said with obvious pride.
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Post by jib on Jan 8, 2024 21:55:08 GMT
JPR Williams has died at 74. Very sad, not a player of my era - the first game I attended was as a 17 year old when the English beat us at home in 1991. His legacy was strong then and will remain so.
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Post by leftieliberal on Jan 8, 2024 21:56:17 GMT
JPR Williams has died at 74. From bacterial meningitis according to the BBC. The greatest Welsh full-back of the oval-ball game who played at a time when there was far less understanding of head injuries. It didn't stop him becoming an orthopaedic surgeon.
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Post by johntel on Jan 8, 2024 22:31:21 GMT
Missing from the top film lists - 'Don't look Now' and 'One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest'..
And strongly recommend the recent Finnish film 'Fallen Leaves' which has the great advantage of being only 81 minutes long.
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Post by crossbat11 on Jan 8, 2024 22:34:19 GMT
Missing from the top film lists - 'Don't look Now' and 'One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest'.. And strongly recommend the recent Finnish film 'Fallen Leaves' which has the great advantage of being only 81 minutes long. Bit like one of Danny's posts then??
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Post by crossbat11 on Jan 8, 2024 22:42:53 GMT
JPR Williams has died at 74. From bacterial meningitis according to the BBC. The greatest Welsh full-back of the oval-ball game who played at a time when there was far less understanding of head injuries. It didn't stop him becoming an orthopaedic surgeon. I'd say that he played in a golden era for Rugby Union, certainly in Wales. I'm a sports enthusiast and while Rugby isn't amongst my most favourite team games, I'm partial to nearly all sports and players like JPR, Gareth Edwards, Barry John, Phil Bennett and Mervyn Davies intrigued me and drew me into the game for a period. I was playing it too at the time as a schoolboy. This was the early to mid 70s as I recall. How could you not watch Wales v England games at the Arms Park in that era when JPR and his peers were in their pomp? Great sporting occasions. RIP JPR.
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Dave
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... I'm dreaming dreams, I'm scheming schemes, I'm building castles high ..
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Post by Dave on Jan 8, 2024 22:44:53 GMT
Dave Pjw1961 has amassed polling evidence during this Parliament that points to an impending change of government, certainly if historical precedent is to be relied upon. The poll that neilj has shared, and on which you have just commented, supports this hypothesis too. It has "time for a change" written all over it. They do look irredeemably f****d but then again I thought that of Liverpool in the 2006 cup final and then the bad things happened. So I'm not going to jinx things by saying a Labour win is the only possible outcome (even though yes, it looks that way to me). Ignore the bit in brackets - I don't want to jinx it I understand the rest of your post and like you, I too believe the Tories will fight dirty. I'm just not sure it will have the effect they need it to have. A) I don't think most voters listen to them any more - they've seen enough and made up their minds and B) for those that still do listen to them, even just out of morbid curiosity, I can't see many thinking "oh yes, I'm with the 75% who think things are worse after five Tory PMs and 13 years than they were before, but, but, but Labour would be far worse". And I can't see that because forgetting the politics for a moment, objectively the Tories have been so bad at governing, being competent and not being greedy, shifty grifters that I don't think that many can conceive that anyone could be worse than them. They richly deserve to be where they are.
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Post by robbiealive on Jan 8, 2024 22:46:52 GMT
No Powell and Pressburger films?! On another day I would have chosen their masterpiece, Life & Death of Colonel Blimp, which I saw recently in Manchester's arts cinema's season of their films. Churchill wanted film banned: v odd: the film's leading character, Candy (R Livesey), wants wars to be fought honourably; everyone else, notably Walbrook's German refugee, argues persuasively that a Nazi victory means the end of civilization & that all & any means to defeat them are justified. Worth seeing if only for D Kerr's stunning acting as 3 different characters. Red Shoes is magnificent despite, as Halliwell says, its weak plot, & Marius Goring is hopeless as a romantic lead. Spy in Black: good Hitchcockian entertainment. I Know Where I'm Going: quirky, charming romance. lululemonmustdobetter ."Actually I like a lot of robbiealive list - however (1) disagree with the rather elitist attitude towards blockbusters and sci-fi. Star Wars was heavily influenced by The Hidden Fortress, although The Empire Strikes Back is a much better film. Personally I think film as spectacle, escapism and entertainment is just as valid and worthy of praise as for intellectual stimulation or insight. (2) As one would expect both of your lists are rather blokeish. " (1) Thought Hidden Fortress was dull. The problem with blockbusters is they reduce things to the lowest common denominator: incessant, imporbable & numbing action; wooden dialogue and formulaic plots; weak chracterisation, esp for women. Eg, watched Die Hard for first time in family group on Xmas day. The women's role was to scream & faint. B. Davis, Crawford, Stanwyck, K Hepburn, Colbert, Dietrich, Rogers, Dunne, D Kerr, Glynis Johns!, V. McKenna, etc would have asserted themselves: as Halliwell again sd: they were always as good as the man & usually better; BBs stifle new ideas in film. (2) I confess to being a bloke. PS If I had a beef with classic Hollywood is the almost complete failure to deal with the race issue. With Brit films, the inability to deal with sex. CF Brit '30s films with French. But will watch Empire Strikes Back!
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Dave
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... I'm dreaming dreams, I'm scheming schemes, I'm building castles high ..
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Post by Dave on Jan 8, 2024 22:57:46 GMT
Two genuine giants of their respective codes gone in just one day- Der Kaizer and JPR.
Not a great rugby fan, but with my 46% Welsh blood and an aversion to the seemingly (at the time) posh boy dominated England compared to the working class Welsh , I always veered towards my mum's homeland and that 70's side, even this ignorant football-centric kid could recognise as being something else.
As a West Ham fan it pains me to say that as truly wonderful a player as Bobby Moore was, Beckenbauer may have been even better. Please allow me to call it an honourable draw. They are great mates apparently so who knows, maybe they are bantering about it as I type this. I'd like to think so.
RIP legends. xx
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Post by jib on Jan 8, 2024 23:03:39 GMT
For those that haven't caught up on the Post Office scandal, an useful summary of they key players here from the Guardian.
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Post by isa on Jan 8, 2024 23:49:44 GMT
No Powell and Pressburger films?! On another day I would have chosen their masterpiece, Life & Death of Colonel Blimp, which I saw recently in Manchester's arts cinema's season of their films. Churchill wanted film banned: v odd: the film's leading character, Candy (R Livesey), wants wars to be fought honourably; everyone else, notably Walbrook's German refugee, argues persuasively that a Nazi victory means the end of civilization & that all & any means to defeat them are justified. Worth seeing if only for D Kerr's stunning acting as 3 different characters. Red Shoes is magnificent despite, as Halliwell says, its weak plot, & Marius Goring is hopeless as a romantic lead. Spy in Black: good Hitchcockian entertainment. I Know Where I'm Going: quirky, charming romance. lululemonmustdobetter ."Actually I like a lot of robbiealive list - however (1) disagree with the rather elitist attitude towards blockbusters and sci-fi. Star Wars was heavily influenced by The Hidden Fortress, although The Empire Strikes Back is a much better film. Personally I think film as spectacle, escapism and entertainment is just as valid and worthy of praise as for intellectual stimulation or insight. (2) As one would expect both of your lists are rather blokeish. " (1) Thought Hidden Fortress was dull. The problem with blockbusters is they reduce things to the lowest common denominator: incessant, imporbable & numbing action; wooden dialogue and formulaic plots; weak chracterisation, esp for women. Eg, watched Die Hard for first time in family group on Xmas day. The women's role was to scream & faint. B. Davis, Crawford, Stanwyck, K Hepburn, Colbert, Dietrich, Rogers, Dunne, D Kerr, Glynis Johns!, V. McKenna, etc would have asserted themselves: as Halliwell again sd: they were always as good as the man & usually better; BBs stifle new ideas in film. (2) I confess to being a bloke. PS If I had a beef with classic Hollywood is the almost complete failure to deal with the race issue. With Brit films, the inability to deal with sex. CF Brit '30s films with French. But will watch Empire Strikes Back!I realise I am being a little self-indulgent, (but hell, given some of the self-indulgence that takes place on here, I feel positively restrained!), but I loved your post. I caught 'Colonel Blimp' on TV recently. A monumental work, beautifully photographed, if a trifle long. I love Anton Walbrook, (brilliant in the 1940 'Gaslight'), and Roger Livesey was a splendid actor (he appeared in the much later, but very droll 'The League of Gentlemen' on Talking Pictures earlier this evening). With regard to your last point, a quick shout out for 'Showboat' (1936), another of my favourites. Not only does it include sassy Irene Dunne, who you mentioned, but it also gives prominent roles to Hattie McDaniel, (later to win an Oscar in GWTW), but also the magnificent Paul Robeson. Apart from Dunne's unfortunate blackface number, which was unremarkable in 1936, the film's treatment of race is quite sympathetic, certainly considering it was made nearly 90 years ago. Add to that a wonderful score and superb cast, (Dunne is almost heartbreaking), and you have an epic film which I like to think of as a musical 'Gone With The Wind'. Directed by gay Englishman James Whale, who managed to produce iconic films in two different genres, musicals, (Showboat), and horror, (Frankenstein and Bride of Frankenstein). No mean feat! For anyone unfamiliar, I offer this contribution. youtu.be/df4VdyGIqJ8?si=FCtYKsXrHIXIQNPi
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2024 0:34:51 GMT
For Jibby…. from the Guardian that he quoted from earlier.
“ Davey was the first post office minister to meet Alan Bates, the post office operator who led the campaign, despite advice from officials. “Initially I was told not to, but I insisted when I read some of his letters because I could hear his anger. I took his arguments to the Post Office but I was lied to,” he said.
After No 10 said Rishi Sunak would “strongly support” the honours forfeiture committee if it decided to review Vennells’ CBE in light of the scandal, Davey said he was “completely surprised” that she had been awarded one in the first place.
“They knew all about this,” he said. “I’d like to know who signed it off. It was a bizarre decision given that this was clearly in the public domain. Imagine how the subpostmasters must have felt when they saw that.
As ministers finally held urgent talks on the issue, he accused the government and the Post Office of “dragging their feet”, adding: “They’re still allowing people to live without compensation, they haven’t overturned their convictions. The case is overwhelming. All these convictions should be quashed.”
Lib Dem insiders have accused the Tories of weaponising Davey’s time in the role, rather than focusing on the other 15 post office ministers over the period. However, Davey said he was “not going to start pointing fingers” at other ministers who had also been misled.”
There are certainly many questions to be asked and answered from many people.
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Post by mercian on Jan 9, 2024 0:48:32 GMT
Dave Pjw1961 has amassed polling evidence during this Parliament that points to an impending change of government, certainly if historical precedent is to be relied upon. The poll that neilj has shared, and on which you have just commented, supports this hypothesis too. It has "time for a change" written all over it. Call it the feelbad factor, if you like. ... You should know by now that it should be called "The Mercian 13/14 Year Rule"
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Post by mercian on Jan 9, 2024 0:54:37 GMT
Skidmore has written to Jeremy Hunt asking to be appointed to the Chiltern Hundreds or Steward of Northstead. I believe that being appointed to these sort of posts counts as being 'an office of profit under the Crown' or something and thus disqualifies MPs from being MPs. However nowadays, as MPs are paid, isn't that in itself 'an office of profit under the Crown'? Therefore shouldn't this archaic nonsense be abolished and MPS should just resign like everyone else does?
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Post by mercian on Jan 9, 2024 1:12:43 GMT
On the film thing (and feel free to sneer), I don't watch many films nowadays but these came to mind: A Hill in Korea Ice Cold in Alex A Matter of Life and Death The Vikings Waterloo Zulu
These were films that were memorable to me, not just about how 'artistic' they were or some sort of other claptrap.
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Post by eor on Jan 9, 2024 2:57:29 GMT
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Jan 9, 2024 6:14:03 GMT
How can this be...talk about rewarding failure
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Jan 9, 2024 6:48:49 GMT
Increased absences from schools in the news again, with no clear reasons why. However, two proposed solutions are increasing breakfast clubs, presumably providing free breakfasts for kids who have turned up at school. And providing mental health councillors at secondary schools. Neither of those sounds like anyone thinks the cause is infectious illness, rather that schools are not very nice places to be. I have mentioned before that in particular the GCSE years see a surge of kids attending private schools, because state schools are so awful at that age range. Partly because of bad teaching, but also it seems likely because of bullying peaking at that age group so parents feel they have to pull their kids out. By A level I guess kids are a bit better behaved, but also there is real competition between state schools because kids are allowed to travel long distances to a good one rather than being forced to use a local school.
Spokeswoman from a schools group saying the concept that kids would be expected to attend school 5 days a week has changed, amongst kids and parents anyway. She said they are most concerned about kids who are regularly absent 1 or 2 days every week. She noted that kids are now far more likely to be absent for minor illness than before covid lockdown. One thing quite clear is that despite all the rules about truancy and punishments for being absent, if parents simply refuse to cooperate, there is little schools can do to enforce attendance. She suggested sending threatening letters doesnt help, it just reinforces antagonism between parent and school and the refusal to cooperate.
This is very obviously one of the consequences of imposed lockdown, which will harm the nation for years. Though it seems likely continuing deterioration of schools so they arent very desireable places to be underly this choice not to attend, lockdown simply precipitated this decision for parents and kids.
Secondary schools 'persistent absence' has now hit 28%, double that before lockdown. Overall, 20%. Obvious why heads do not want to further antagonise 1/4 of the parents at their schools, or they would find themselves personally threatened and besieged.
A story labour would use the money raised by imposing VAT on private schools to fund schemes to boost attendance. Rather an irony that parents responsible enough to struggle to fund private education for their kids because state schools cannot provide this, should now be penalised for going private instead of just letting their kids stay home.
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Post by moby on Jan 9, 2024 6:55:11 GMT
For me the best movies are ones that entertain or shock me. Good special effects matter, as do extra dinosaurs and lots of thrills and spills. They usually have to be seen in the cinema to make the most of the CGI and/or sound effects. Anything in black and white......are you serious! and anything in which characters suddenly burst into song or start dancing....just forget it!
So in no particular order some of my favourites are....'Alien'.....the chest bursting scene has to be one of the most shocking scenes in cinema. The design of the adult alien creature was original, it also included a strong female 'gay icon' character, Ripley whose continued her role to great effect when she single handedly took on the Queen alien in Camerons 'Aliens'.... not as chilling or original as the first Ridley Scott movie but was still a thrilling movie in which we see Ripley's character grow and take control from overly macho marines, who just don't understand what they are facing.
Ridley Scott's 'Bladerunner' is another classic for me, the evocation of a dystopian human society going to seed through environmental disaster and the use of AI and simulation to escape from the grim reality of real life drudgery has been often copied but rarely done better imo. Brilliant soundtrack as well.
Spielberg...very hit and miss but 'Jaws' has to be one of the best movies out there.....it gripped right from the first scene when the rather attractive skinny dipping blonde woman suddenly started screaming, tension builds up to the climax, Murray Hamilton's seedy, self interested town mayor was brilliant and finally the three men in a small boat taking on the monster..... the look on Brody's face when he realised what they were dealing with.......' I think we're going to need a bigger boat'....🤣 An honourable mention to 'Close Encounters' as well......for the final scene dramatic appearance of the alien mother ship over devil's tower....it was very well done.
The three best horror movies for me are 'Rosemary's Baby', a young pregnant woman's fears were not just a figment of her imagination after all and you'll always wonder about that very helpful, kindly old couple living next door after watching this....very creepy! And of course who can ever forget the head turning scene in Freidkins 'The Exorcist' or Jack Nicholsons writer losing his sanity in an isolated ski resort in 'The Shining'. A movie very well directed by Kubrick, who of course also directed the brilliant war movie ' Full metal jacket, filmed in London's docklands.
Changing genres, I also loved Freidkins direction of Gene Hackmans short tempered 'Popeye' Doyle in 'The French Connection'....a movie which contains one of the best car chase scenes ever imo. I think only Steve Mc Queens 'Bullit' competes with it regarding the quality 'car chase'.
I have to admit I also love some of Arnie's movies....he was cracking in 'The Terminator', people said playing a mindless killing machine was the perfect part for him, I thought that was a bit cruel. He brought a wry humour to the role imo....not sure if it was intentional but who can forget the 'Ill be back' scene! Talking about Arnie that first 'Predator' movie was a cracker. It was such a brilliant scene when Arnie realises what he is really up against as the alien creature takes off it's helmet to reveal what it really looks like....has there ever been such a well done alien monster! John Carpenters monster in 'The Thing' is on a par though.....a movie which is another one of my favourites. The original, was also not bad, considering it was in black and white and the alien looked like a giant carrot.
Changing genres yet again, I don't know how many times I've watched 'Withnail and I', a hilarious, bleak picture of the sixties. When I was younger, watching it with friends we always played the game of having a drinkie every time they had one in the film. Suffice to say my prostate would never allow that now!
Regarding new movies I'm looking forward to Villeneuve's Dune 2 in March, the first part was very good, much better than the 1984 version with Sting in his golden underpants showing off his fit lean body. Finally a shout out for a recent release and one of the best Godzilla movies ever..,..Last week I went to see Godzilla minus one in the Carmarthen Vue cinema....an absolute cracker of a monster, some good character development and again a brilliant soundtrack. I went there to see Ridley's 'Napoleon' a week earlier, good movie, not sure how historically accurate it was and Joaquin Phoenix's Napoleon was a bit weird. His 'Joker' was much better though, it even competed with Nicholson's in 'Batman'! I loved him in 'Gladiator' as well, another cracker of a movie from Ridley Scott. I could go on and on.....Coppola's The Godfather I and 2, Apocalypse Now....Zulu really choked me up when the troops challenged the Zulu war chanting by singing Men of Harlech.....Dog Day Afternoon, There Will Be Blood, The Power of the Dog.....etc etc..so many memories from great movies over the years.
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Jan 9, 2024 7:06:43 GMT
Seems politicians rushing to try to change the law to exhonerate post masters criminalised by faulty horizon software. Amazing what you can do 20 years after this scandal took place once someone makes a film about it in an election year.
Shame it was too embarassing to do it 15 years earlier, and that government had quite deliberately turned a blind eye to whatever the post office was doing so it could privatise it. Shame this is POLICY in every industry where there is a natural monopoly to provide essential public services, so that governments can pretend they have no responsibility for what is going on. And yet here we are, emergency legislation is admitting government always had this responsibility.
Dominic Grieve ( i think) being interviewed about what to do over the falsely convicted postmasters. again as a lawyer he seems unhappy about simply declaring them innocent. But at the same time admits the CCRC, criminal cases review commission, is hopelessly understaffed to deal with cases and hundreds of these as a class are therefore impossible for it to handle. Not to mention (he didnt) that courts in general are currently hopelessly overloaded and backlogged because the conservative government has closed too many of them for the remainder to cope.
Another interviewee arguing CCRC should prioritise the hundreds of postmasters, but that begs the question just what would happen to all the other cases it is dealing with, such as the guy recently finally exhonerated of rape after 20 years, and ten years after the proof of his innocence became available. This guy also admits that the innocence of the postmasters has been known for years, which hardly gives confidence in his proposed solution. Seems its better they stay convicted than anything be done.
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Jan 9, 2024 7:11:04 GMT
Boeing in the news again for failed planes. This time it seems a door blew out of a plane during takeoff, and now more planes have been grounded following the discovery of loose bolts. These seem to be new planes, and interviewee raised the issue that boeing (and sub contractor) staff were fired during lockdown, being replaced by new staff afterwards. The implicatin seems to be inexperienced staff manufacturing planes made mistakes. Another lockdown consequence, planes falling apart.
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Jan 9, 2024 7:25:54 GMT
Another story, about falling revenue in the hospitality sector. This leading to increasing numbers of closures, coming as it does on top of the events of recent years, such as lockdown and now the lockdown induced recession. Noteworthy that countries such as Sweden never actually closed cafes during covid, merely insisting on wider spacing of customers. Nor did they close major industry and send people home. Which was less useful for them than it might have been because the disruption of international trade meant essential parts could not be sourced from abroad. But if none of us had closed down industry, there would have been no recession and a fraction of the economic harm from covid. Sweden of course had fewer covid deaths than the UK on its policy of no lockdowns. Which makes sense, if you listen to some disease experts who argue that protecting the young from covid, which is mostly what we did, merely made the whole epidemic last longer and displaced more cases into the vulnerable elderly.
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Jan 9, 2024 7:34:13 GMT
Thats 4 bad news stories this morning. Boeing crashes not so likely to affect the chances of the conservatives to be re-elected, but still adding to an air of failure by the current government in place for nearly 14 years.
Three of the four are caused in part or whole by lockdown. Though closing courts for lockdown also probably slowed the postmasters cases, adding another year or two to their 20 year wait for justice. I havnt mentioned today's Rwanda story, opposition set to demand more releases of information today, which might succeed and demonstrate more incompetence including opposition to the scheme by Sunak in the past, or fail and paint the government as hiding things. And this isnt just today, its day after day after day of bad news stories related to government action. Usually the negative impact of deliberate policy, not mistakes.
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Post by crossbat11 on Jan 9, 2024 7:34:45 GMT
How can this be...talk about rewarding failure I wonder if Fujitsu have donated to any of the political parties over their many years of winning government contracts? I presume this will come out, if true, during the current Inquiry that, I believe, they are fully cooperating with.
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Jan 9, 2024 7:44:34 GMT
How can this be...talk about rewarding failure I wonder if Fujitsu have donated to any of the political parties over their many years of winning government contracts? I presume this will come out, if true, during the current Inquiry that, I believe, they are fully cooperating with. We do know the former Fujitsu UK chair and board member Michael Keegan, the husband of current cabinet minister Gillian Keegan, is now working in cabinet office overseeing supplier relationships.
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Jan 9, 2024 7:49:56 GMT
How can this be...talk about rewarding failure I wonder if Fujitsu have donated to any of the political parties over their many years of winning government contracts? I presume this will come out, if true, during the current Inquiry that, I believe, they are fully cooperating with. Fujitsu bought out ICL, the original post office contractor. So maybe once fujitsu would have been in competition with ICL for contracts, as with many big industries competition tends to disappear because of the economies of scale. Just how many other companies would be able to bid for these contracts? I once did some computing training with a company founded by ex employees of the government in house software department. It used to have a big office in Hastings, which after years of being used for miscellaneous other government departments is currently being demolished. Which first off is a flag for how the government drive to move itself out of London into far flung regions to spread employment has failed. But to the immediate point now, the Thatcher government chose to privatise state capability to run its own IT projects and we have seen a string of failed and semi failed software projects ever since. The UK government software department had been world leading.
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Post by crossbat11 on Jan 9, 2024 7:51:01 GMT
Starmer must explain why he didn’t intervene in Horizon scandal, says Farage"Labour leader, director of public prosecutions when cases came to light, ‘has serious questions to answer’ claims ex-Ukip chief" No he doesn't & you never were the brightest were you Nigel.....the Post Office has powers to bring its own prosecutions. Doesn't get others off the hook though! You expose the danger of political vendettas and personal hatreds getting in the way of rational and objective analysis here. Farage is indulging in it with his accusations about Starmer and I fear you may be allowing yourself to slip into this with Ed Davey and the Lib Dems. As I've said before, you're not alone and you see it when politicians like Blair, Starmer, Thatcher etc are debated. Deep loathings that give licence to believing rubbish about them purely because you want it to be true. Fake news and scurrilous and groundless rumours seized upon gleefully and with alacrity because it serves a purpose. Social media feeds this neurosis daily. If you hate a political figure or party, there are daily riches to feast upon there. Twitter and propaganda blogs etc. It's one of the issues I have with Mark's soft touch moderation. I used to regard this forum as a refuge from the world of vendetta and falsehoods that flourish elsewhere on the internet. I'm afraid it's paying regular visits here now, albeit the sudden halt of Trevor's constant posting has helped a bit.
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