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Post by steamdrivenandy on Jan 9, 2024 8:24:08 GMT
Sda Norway style single market membership was on the table from day one. It's the head banger brexitanians who lied about it and the recovery of a sovereignty we'd never lost in the first place who are directly responsible for the shit show we have now. If Lord Snooty hadn't been such a snivelling little coward and hadn't had it on his trotters to spend more time with his money we probably could have got something which might have satisfied both sides , remain voters would have retained the four freedoms while brexitoids could have still stolen our rights to vote and restored their imaginary sovereignty. Because he didn't and because despite some efforts from May the zealot brexitoid head bangers took over, aided by overseas owned right wing media and Spaffer who wanted to be world king. This is a Tory generated and made catastrofuck and putting aside the enabling of the previous Labour leader it's them and the people who voted for Brexit and then supported the Spaffer regime who are culpable. Reversing a situation where we remained in the single market to full membership would have been a walk in the park compared to the ongoing train wreck the Tories have caused. I couldn't agree with you more Steve but surely the Norway style option didn't meet the the perceived aspirations that drove the Brexit vote, or rather the aspirations of those who promoted Brexit. My personal view is that it was all Johnson's fault and that he saw that Leave was a way for him to achieve the premiership. His presence in the Leave camp brought in many more voters. Imagine if he'd gone the opposite way and campaigned for Remain. I suspect Remain would have won, we wouldn't have lost the 'sensible' wing of the Tory party and the country would have been spared Johnson's capers and Truss and Sunak etc . It has been really all down to one discreditted man.
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Post by crossbat11 on Jan 9, 2024 8:39:05 GMT
sda
I think you're right about Johnson's culpability.
It's a sobering thought that the settling of an old Etonian and Bullingdon Club score between Johnson and Cameron can have had such devastating consequences for both our politics and economic prospects as a nation.
The affairs of state at the mercy of a couple of ex public schoolboys trying to outdo each other.
One of them got to be Prime Minister because he felt he'd be "rather good at it", the other wheedled his way into the job because he couldn't stomach the idea of the other getting there before him.
If anything sums up the farce at the heart of the way we govern ourselves, then this is it.
I sometimes laugh at it, I sometimes cry.
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
Posts: 8,397
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Post by pjw1961 on Jan 9, 2024 8:55:51 GMT
Starmer must explain why he didn’t intervene in Horizon scandal, says Farage"Labour leader, director of public prosecutions when cases came to light, ‘has serious questions to answer’ claims ex-Ukip chief" No he doesn't & you never were the brightest were you Nigel.....the Post Office has powers to bring its own prosecutions. Doesn't get others off the hook though! You expose the danger of political vendettas and personal hatreds getting in the way of rational and objective analysis here. Farage is indulging in it with his accusations about Starmer and I fear you may be allowing yourself to slip into this with Ed Davey and the Lib Dems. As I've said before, you're not alone and you see it when politicians like Blair, Starmer, Thatcher etc are debated. Deep loathings that give licence to believing rubbish about them purely because you want it to be true. Fake news and scurrilous and groundless rumours seized upon gleefully and with alacrity because it serves a purpose. Social media feeds this neurosis daily. If you hate a political figure or party, there are daily riches to feast upon there. Twitter and propaganda blogs etc. It's one of the issues I have with Mark's soft touch moderation. I used to regard this forum as a refuge from the world of vendetta and falsehoods that flourish elsewhere on the internet. I'm afraid it's paying regular visits here now, albeit the sudden halt of Trevor's constant posting has helped a bit. You say that about the ludicrous nature of Farage's attack on Starmer over this, but I have just listened to the Telegraph take on the same story being lovingly and uncritically read out in full on the BBC R4 Today programme as part of their coverage of 'news' from the papers.
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pjw1961
Member
Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
Posts: 8,397
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Post by pjw1961 on Jan 9, 2024 8:58:44 GMT
Thanks for running this eor. I must have done better on the economic questions than I expected given I was just guessing! I would like to see a 2024 one. It it certainly a bumper year for elections - real and fake.
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Post by athena on Jan 9, 2024 9:02:27 GMT
lululemonmustdobetterThanks for the response. I guess that some of the difference between how our respective circles responded to the referendium result is a reflection of how different London is from a Yorkshire city. Rejoining Horizon got less coverage than I was expecting - it's something that earned Sunak grudgingly given points with a lot of people I know.
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pjw1961
Member
Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
Posts: 8,397
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Post by pjw1961 on Jan 9, 2024 9:14:50 GMT
On the film thing (and feel free to sneer), I don't watch many films nowadays but these came to mind: A Hill in Korea Ice Cold in Alex A Matter of Life and Death The Vikings Waterloo Zulu These were films that were memorable to me, not just about how 'artistic' they were or some sort of other claptrap. Nice to see 'Ice Cold in Alex' get a mention, it is on my list as well. Like you I go for films that entertain me, so that I'm happy to re-watch multiple times. On that basis - i.e. films I have been willing to watch all the way through most often - it is clear that the greatest film in the history of cinema is "Jason and the Argonauts" which I have been contentedly enjoying since I was about seven. If anyone wants to mock my Philistine choices I will send Talos round to see them. This is of course a Ray Harryhausen film and it is amusing that his films are always Ray Harryhausen films regardless of directors, actors, etc. Not many special effects guys get to have their own genre.
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steve
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Post by steve on Jan 9, 2024 9:19:22 GMT
"It has been really all down to one discreditted man."
While corrupt narcissistic serial liar Spaffer has a large slice of the blame frog faced hate gimp Farage was just as culpable
You shouldn't however exonerate millions of those who had access to the same facts as we All did but decided, because they didn't like hearing polish on the bus , or the fact that the local fish and chip shop was run by a "chinese" family, or that the entire population of Turkey was about to arrive at Dover ( all genuine reasons given) , that they would take the opportunity to ignore the truth and vote for the lies instead.
It was truly national village idiots day.
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Post by pete on Jan 9, 2024 9:42:56 GMT
Or just catch it and get on with living. Life is too short to waste it in fear of covid. A seriously stupid thing to say. Covid kills or fecks enough people up to destroy lives.
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patrickbrian
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These things seem small and undistinguishable, like far off mountains turned into clouds
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Post by patrickbrian on Jan 9, 2024 10:04:59 GMT
I don't think there's much to be gained by blaming individuals, whether for Brexit or the Post Office scandal. If the Brexit vote had gone the other way, the issue would still be with us and Farage etc would be capitalizing on it. The horizon thing has shown up the shallowness, self-certainty and group think of organisations like the post office (which reminded me strongly of the management of my children's secondary school, of which I was for a while a governor), but will only be properly resolved (if it is) because of a very well told t.v. drama - it's been public knowledge for a decade, but till now people didn't care that much. Perhaps we should be looking more not at the dodgy individuals - Johnson etc, - but at the conditions that allow them to flourish. There are plenty more Johnsons / Farages/ weak CEOs etc, waiting in the wings.
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Jan 9, 2024 10:24:25 GMT
"It has been really all down to one discreditted man." While corrupt narcissistic serial liar Spaffer has a large slice of the blame frog faced hate gimp Farage was just as culpable You shouldn't however exonerate millions of those who had access to the same facts as we All did but decided, because they didn't like hearing polish on the bus , or the fact that the local fish and chip shop was run by a "chinese" family, or that the entire population of Turkey was about to arrive at Dover ( all genuine reasons given) , that they would take the opportunity to ignore the truth and vote for the lies instead. It was truly national village idiots day. Being on a 'Better Together' stand in a town centre in 2016 was a real eye-opener for me. I was gobsmacked at the often very incoherent, stream of consciousness anger and prejudice that came my way largely from older men. The main thing they wanted to vent about it seemed was muslims and the construction of imaginary mosques despite there being very few of the former and none of the later in the town in question. How leaving the EU was connected to that in any way was beyond me but they seemed to have formed this link in their minds between EU membership and multi-culturalism in general that had no obvious logical basis.
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Post by crossbat11 on Jan 9, 2024 10:25:49 GMT
pjw1961"You say that about the ludicrous nature of Farage's attack on Starmer over this, but I have just listened to the Telegraph take on the same story being lovingly and uncritically read out in full on the BBC R4 Today programme as part of their coverage of 'news' from the papers."This is why I think that those who blithely claim that the right wing print media have lost their influence with falling circulations and the growth of social media, are too complacent about the lingering shadow they still cast. Not only have papers like the Mail and Telegraph still got significant readerships but TV and radio stations with very large audiences often let their news agenda be led by stories originated in these two blatantly biased and anti-Labour publications. As you say, the stories are often reported as gospel rather than the wholly partial and quasi-fabricated slants that they are. Sunak and the Tories will be regarding these newspapers as important parts of their armoury in the battle that lies ahead. They are important allies and very powerful ones too. P.S. On a much brighter and happier note, two fellows turned up at our house this morning to install a log-burner for us and one of them turns out to be Ozzie Osbourne's nephew! I'm with the family of heavy metal royalty for the next two days. An Aston legend too.
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Jan 9, 2024 10:32:22 GMT
lululemonmustdobetter Thanks for the response. I guess that some of the difference between how our respective circles responded to the referendium result is a reflection of how different London is from a Yorkshire city. Rejoining Horizon got less coverage than I was expecting - it's something that earned Sunak grudgingly given points with a lot of people I know. That's a bit like congratulating the person who mugged you for agreeing to return your wallet (minus the money in it) after a long period of pleading them to do so.
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Jan 9, 2024 10:35:09 GMT
pjw1961 "You say that about the ludicrous nature of Farage's attack on Starmer over this, but I have just listened to the Telegraph take on the same story being lovingly and uncritically read out in full on the BBC R4 Today programme as part of their coverage of 'news' from the papers."This is why I think that those who blithely claim that the right wing print media have lost their influence with falling circulations and the growth of social media, are too complacent about the lingering shadow they still cast. Not only have papers like the Mail and Telegraph still got significant readerships but TV and radio stations with very large audiences often let their news agenda be led by stories originated in these two blatantly biased and anti-Labour publications. As you say, the stories are often reported as gospel rather than the wholly partial and quasi-fabricated slants that they are. Sunak and the Tories will be regarding these newspapers as important parts of their armoury in the battle that lies ahead. They are important allies and very powerful ones too. P.S. On a much brighter and happier note, two fellows turned up at our house this morning to install a log-burner for us and one of them turns out to be Ozzie Osbourne's nephew! I'm with the family of heavy metal royalty for the next two days. An Aston legend too. Listened to Today almost every weekday from teenage years up to 2018/19 when I had to stop for the sake of my sanity. It's tragic to see what a broadcasting institution has degenerated into.
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Post by crossbat11 on Jan 9, 2024 10:35:38 GMT
Labour lead at 24pts
Westminster voting intention:
LAB: 46% (+3)
CON: 22% (-2)
LDEM: 10% (-)
REF: 9% (-2)
GRN: 7% (-1)
via
@yougov
, 02 - 03 Janhttps://x.com/BritainElects/status/1744666246182813837?s=20
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Post by crossbat11 on Jan 9, 2024 10:43:32 GMT
pjw1961 "You say that about the ludicrous nature of Farage's attack on Starmer over this, but I have just listened to the Telegraph take on the same story being lovingly and uncritically read out in full on the BBC R4 Today programme as part of their coverage of 'news' from the papers."This is why I think that those who blithely claim that the right wing print media have lost their influence with falling circulations and the growth of social media, are too complacent about the lingering shadow they still cast. Not only have papers like the Mail and Telegraph still got significant readerships but TV and radio stations with very large audiences often let their news agenda be led by stories originated in these two blatantly biased and anti-Labour publications. As you say, the stories are often reported as gospel rather than the wholly partial and quasi-fabricated slants that they are. Sunak and the Tories will be regarding these newspapers as important parts of their armoury in the battle that lies ahead. They are important allies and very powerful ones too. P.S. On a much brighter and happier note, two fellows turned up at our house this morning to install a log-burner for us and one of them turns out to be Ozzie Osbourne's nephew! I'm with the family of heavy metal royalty for the next two days. An Aston legend too. Listened to Today almost every weekday from teenage years up to 2018/19 when I had to stop for the sake of my sanity. It's tragic to see what a broadcasting institution has degenerated into. The proliferation of journalists and presenters like Humphreys, Robinson and Webb, plus the oversight of people like Gibbs and Davie in terms of their appointments as editors of the programme (Sarah Sands anyone??) tilted the whole programme very much into middlebrow Tory-lite blancmange territory. Like you, the programme used to be my daily companion on my 45 minute commute to work for probably twenty years or more (1990-2015'ish). The loss of Brian Redhead and James Naughtie dealt it grievious blows, but the slow Torification over the last 10 years has been shocking.
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Post by robbiealive on Jan 9, 2024 10:44:27 GMT
For me the best movies are ones that entertain or shock me. Good special effects matter, as do extra dinosaurs and lots of thrills and spills. They usually have to be seen in the cinema to make the most of the CGI and/or sound effects. Anything in black and white......are you serious! and anything in which characters suddenly burst into song or start dancing....just forget it! So in no particular order some of my favourites are....'Alien'.....the chest bursting scene has to be one of the most shocking scenes in cinema. The design of the adult alien creature was original, it also included a strong female 'gay icon' character, Ripley whose continued her role to great effect when she single handedly took on the Queen alien in Camerons 'Aliens'.... not as chilling or original as the first Ridley Scott movie but was still a thrilling movie in which we see Ripley's character grow and take control from overly macho marines, who just don't understand what they are facing. Ridley Scott's 'Bladerunner' is another classic for me, the evocation of a dystopian human society going to seed through environmental disaster and the use of AI and simulation to escape from the grim reality of real life drudgery has been often copied but rarely done better imo. Brilliant soundtrack as well. Spielberg...very hit and miss but 'Jaws' has to be one of the best movies out there.....it gripped right from the first scene when the rather attractive skinny dipping blonde woman suddenly started screaming, tension builds up to the climax, Murray Hamilton's seedy, self interested town mayor was brilliant and finally the three men in a small boat taking on the monster..... the look on Brody's face when he realised what they were dealing with.......' I think we're going to need a bigger boat'....🤣 An honourable mention to 'Close Encounters' as well......for the final scene dramatic appearance of the alien mother ship over devil's tower....it was very well done. Jaws is a remake of yr namesake.
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Dave
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... I'm dreaming dreams, I'm scheming schemes, I'm building castles high ..
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Post by Dave on Jan 9, 2024 10:54:31 GMT
"It has been really all down to one discreditted man." While corrupt narcissistic serial liar Spaffer has a large slice of the blame frog faced hate gimp Farage was just as culpable You shouldn't however exonerate millions of those who had access to the same facts as we All did but decided, because they didn't like hearing polish on the bus , or the fact that the local fish and chip shop was run by a "chinese" family, or that the entire population of Turkey was about to arrive at Dover ( all genuine reasons given) , that they would take the opportunity to ignore the truth and vote for the lies instead. It was truly national village idiots day. Every few weeks, it gets to the point where I can't bite my tongue any more and here I am I'm not going to get into a long chat with you about this Steve - a debate on returning is for another decade methinks. But do you really classify 17 million voters as idiots? Every last one of them? And if so, when you were standing for council did you make it plain to potential voters that you classed many of them as idiots? One of the things that I suspect newbies to this site would find pretty off-putting, should they chance upon us, is the superiority and pretty much down-right contempt that some seem to show all too often towards a huge percentage of the electorate. Imho, your oft repeated "national idiots' day" is a case in point Steve.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2024 10:56:35 GMT
I don't think there's much to be gained by blaming individuals, whether for Brexit or the Post Office scandal. If the Brexit vote had gone the other way, the issue would still be with us and Farage etc would be capitalizing on it. The horizon thing has shown up the shallowness, self-certainty and group think of organisations like the post office (which reminded me strongly of the management of my children's secondary school, of which I was for a while a governor), but will only be properly resolved (if it is) because of a very well told t.v. drama - it's been public knowledge for a decade, but till now people didn't care that much. Perhaps we should be looking more not at the dodgy individuals - Johnson etc, - but at the conditions that allow them to flourish. There are plenty more Johnsons / Farages/ weak CEOs etc, waiting in the wings. An excellent thoughtful post. On Horizon let us hope that the Inquiry shines a light on the corporate and parliamentary procedures and thought processes which you mention. But I do think there is a long list of individuals bearing varying degrees of culpability too. On Brexit I am really taken by your @ " If the Brexit vote had gone the other way, the issue would still be with us and Farage etc would be capitalizing on it.". It fits very much with thoughts I have been having recently . It seems to me that there are people here who agonise about Brexit , but never ever comment on the EU. At least not the dynamic EU-the one in flux. Their EU is an image of it stuck in a time. Andrew Marr -who I like a lot, made this statement on one of his recent NS video blogs:- https://www.tiktok.com/@newstatesman/video/7311651903836835104 What he is talking about is the right populism forecast to sweep over the EP in the June elections-but also similar trends in national parliaments-Italy, Netherlands, France etc. Now you could be cynical about Marr and say -but these are voter responses. Democracy in action. If your espousal of Remaining in EU was on the proviso that it remains politically loc , then thats no recommendation for the Institution. But he is certainly right that democratic political change MAY , when it is completed, change the Institution itself. ( It was never of course going to be the ephemeral entity set in 2016 aspic beloved of so many wistful Remainers on UKPR2.) In today's Times I read of yet another sign of this discontent-in Germany.Farmers and lorry drivers began blocking cities & motorways in protest at the end of tax breaks on diesel. This is yet another outcome from the Budget problems of of Shoz's Coalition .AfD naturally has latched on to all of this-complete with banners and flags. Manfred Guller, director of Forsa Polling Institute said support for AfD is now greater than for Hitler's Nazis in the early 1930s. Gullner said that peoples discontent with their Government was because " they are too ideological and too green". And I got to thinking the same as you-that discontent with out of touch government, seen as elitist and distant from the ordinary voter WILL lead to political change id ignored. Yes I think you have a point about Brexit being a safety valve here. One which seems to be missing across the the EU.
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Dave
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... I'm dreaming dreams, I'm scheming schemes, I'm building castles high ..
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Post by Dave on Jan 9, 2024 10:58:40 GMT
Labour lead at 24pts Westminster voting intention: LAB: 46% (+3) CON: 22% (-2) LDEM: 10% (-) REF: 9% (-2) GRN: 7% (-1) via @yougov , 02 - 03 Janhttps://x.com/BritainElects/status/1744666246182813837?s=20 Well, that's cheered me right up after my last grrrrrrr post. Bring it on Tories! You can't hide forever.
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oldnat
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Extremist - Undermining the UK state and its institutions
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Post by oldnat on Jan 9, 2024 10:58:58 GMT
Labour lead at 24pts Westminster voting intention: LAB: 46% (+3) CON: 22% (-2) LDEM: 10% (-) REF: 9% (-2) GRN: 7% (-1) via @yougov , 02 - 03 Janhttps://x.com/BritainElects/status/1744666246182813837?s=20 Inevitably, as soon as I list the Dec Scots VI average, YG release their data from 19-20 Dec! Minor amendments to my table made.
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Post by wb61 on Jan 9, 2024 11:11:41 GMT
Films
surprised no-one has mentioned Sabotage (1935?) Hitchcock beginning to demonstrate his genius. Here is my list:
Comedy: Kind Hearts and Coronets & Passport to Pimlico Feelgood Schmaltz: It's a Wonderful Life War: Saving Private Ryan & Waterloo (Rod Steiger) Romantic Comedy: Move Over Darling Quirky Romance: The African Queen Classics: too many to mention but most of those mentioned by others already Disney: Bedknobs and Broomsticks & Pinocchio Musical: Porgy and Bess, Showboat & Calamity Jane
Most depend on my mood but my overall favourite: It's a Wonderful Life
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steve
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Post by steve on Jan 9, 2024 11:13:34 GMT
crossbat11Just for fun fed those numbers through electoral calculus Good news the liberal democrats are the official opposition, all 41 of them, Tories in fourth place behind the SNP. Labour might struggle with its flimsy 440 seat majority. Isn't first past the post fun.
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steve
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Post by steve on Jan 9, 2024 11:14:46 GMT
I can't believe no one has mentioned "The Great Escape"
A pleasure every Christmas
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oldnat
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Extremist - Undermining the UK state and its institutions
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Post by oldnat on Jan 9, 2024 11:17:02 GMT
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steve
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Post by steve on Jan 9, 2024 11:18:26 GMT
"Spielberg...very hit and miss"
Anyone who could direct Schindler's list is up there with the best.
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Post by James E on Jan 9, 2024 11:19:13 GMT
YouGov's figures again show a very significant Labour lead (of 16%) in the South of England. And across their most recent 6 polls, the average has been a Labour lead of 14 points, ranging between 9 and 18. With each sample being around 675 people, this is based on around 4,000 responses.
This would be a swing of 23% compared to 2019, when the Tories led by 32 points. Perhaps even more remarkable is the fact that it would represent a 12% Con to Lab swing when compared to the 1997 election, in which the Tories still managed an overall 9% lead in the South.
The Kingswood by election should be very interesting. In most respects, it seems to typify the demograhics in which the Con to Lab swings (per YG) are the largest, being Southern, Leave voting and above-average ABC1.
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Jan 9, 2024 11:19:45 GMT
I don't think there's much to be gained by blaming individuals, whether for Brexit or the Post Office scandal. If the Brexit vote had gone the other way, the issue would still be with us and Farage etc would be capitalizing on it. The horizon thing has shown up the shallowness, self-certainty and group think of organisations like the post office (which reminded me strongly of the management of my children's secondary school, of which I was for a while a governor), but will only be properly resolved (if it is) because of a very well told t.v. drama - it's been public knowledge for a decade, but till now people didn't care that much. Perhaps we should be looking more not at the dodgy individuals - Johnson etc, - but at the conditions that allow them to flourish. There are plenty more Johnsons / Farages/ weak CEOs etc, waiting in the wings. An excellent thoughtful post. On Horizon let us hope that the Inquiry shines a light on the corporate and parliamentary procedures and thought processes which you mention. But I do think there is a long list of individuals bearing varying degrees of culpability too. On Brexit I am really taken by your @ " If the Brexit vote had gone the other way, the issue would still be with us and Farage etc would be capitalizing on it.". It fits very much with thoughts I have been having recently . It seems to me that there are people here who agonise about Brexit , but never ever comment on the EU. At least not the dynamic EU-the one in flux. Their EU is an image of it stuck in a time. Andrew Marr -who I like a lot, made this statement on one of his recent NS video blogs:- https://www.tiktok.com/@newstatesman/video/7311651903836835104 What he is talking about is the right populism forecast to sweep over the EP in the June elections-but also similar trends in national parliaments-Italy, Netherlands, France etc. Now you could be cynical about Marr and say -but these are voter responses. Democracy in action. If your espousal of Remaining in EU was on the proviso that it remains politically loc , then thats no recommendation for the Institution. But he is certainly right that democratic political change MAY , when it is completed, change the Institution itself. ( It was never of course going to be the ephemeral entity set in 2016 aspic beloved of so many wistful Remainers on UKPR2.) In today's Times I read of yet another sign of this discontent-in Germany.Farmers and lorry drivers began blocking cities & motorways in protest at the end of tax breaks on diesel. This is yet another outcome from the Budget problems of of Shoz's Coalition .AfD naturally has latched on to all of this-complete with banners and flags. Manfred Guller, director of Forsa Polling Institute said support for AfD is now greater than for Hitler's Nazis in the early 1930s. Gullner said that peoples discontent with their Government was because " they are too ideological and too green". And I got to thinking the same as you-that discontent with out of touch government, seen as elitist and distant from the ordinary voter WILL lead to political change id ignored. Yes I think you have a point about Brexit being a safety valve here. One which seems to be missing across the the EU. "discontent with out of touch government, seen as elitist and distant from the ordinary voter WILL lead to political change id ignored" - Especially if that often ill-founded discontent is deliberately fed by mis-information and manipulation funded by shady right wing US institutions and the Kremlin which is what has been happening via social media for years. I was reading an article recently about how German farmers have it relatively really quite peachy and are basically a spoilt bunch. brexit was no safety valve, it's obvious failure now to most, especially in the arena of immigration, will simply be the foundation of more 'we woz robbed by the liberal elite' bs, especially once the tories are in opposition. Whats the next 'safety valve' you'd suggest? Leaving the ECHR? Having a 'beat up a foreigner' day?
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Post by isa on Jan 9, 2024 11:29:53 GMT
crossbat11 Just for fun fed those numbers through electoral calculus Good news the liberal democrats are the official opposition, all 41 of them, Tories in fourth place behind the SNP. Labour might struggle with its flimsy 440 seat majority. Isn't first past the post fun. Just did the same. I got an even smaller LAB majority of a wafer-thin 370, with CON still the official Opposition on 55. The prediction geographical map was hilarious. You could drive from Land's End to Dover, Lowestoft and the Scottish borders without passing through a CON seat.
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Post by Rafwan on Jan 9, 2024 11:37:03 GMT
"It has been really all down to one discreditted man." While corrupt narcissistic serial liar Spaffer has a large slice of the blame frog faced hate gimp Farage was just as culpable You shouldn't however exonerate millions of those who had access to the same facts as we All did but decided, because they didn't like hearing polish on the bus , or the fact that the local fish and chip shop was run by a "chinese" family, or that the entire population of Turkey was about to arrive at Dover ( all genuine reasons given) , that they would take the opportunity to ignore the truth and vote for the lies instead. It was truly national village idiots day. Every few weeks, it gets to the point where I can't bite my tongue any more and here I am I'm not going to get into a long chat with you about this Steve - a debate on returning is for another decade methinks. But do you really classify 17 million voters as idiots? Every last one of them? And if so, when you were standing for council did you make it plain to potential voters that you classed many of them as idiots? One of the things that I suspect newbies to this site would find pretty off-putting, should they chance upon us, is the superiority and pretty much down-right contempt that some seem to show all too often towards a huge percentage of the electorate. Imho, your oft repeated "national idiots' day" is a case in point Steve. You are absolutely right, of course, Dave, but the fact remains that steve is a national institution who gets special dispensations. His breath-takingly blunt assessments are compelling and incisive; irresistible reading. What is particularly refreshing is that it all comes from such an unlikely source (his thuggish ex-cop self-portrayal). You and I take a much less severe view of the anti-europeans, trying to find the reasons and causes behind their views. But there is a place for calling things as they are, and that is what Steve does. It really was an act of idiocy, and if people get offended by being told this, then frankly that is too bad…
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Post by mark61 on Jan 9, 2024 11:37:33 GMT
wb61, Kind hearts and Coronets nearly made my list, Dennis Price outshining Alec Guiness in my opinion, and Joan Greenwood! I could listen to her read the Phonebook!
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