Dave
Member
... I'm dreaming dreams, I'm scheming schemes, I'm building castles high ..
Posts: 818
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Post by Dave on Jan 8, 2024 15:46:56 GMT
(My dotted line). Regarding your first sentence: Cameron did not call the referendum "as the means of resolving" the "ongoing debate about our membership of the EU". He had no belief whatsoever that he would have to implement a referendum. So it's all about your final second sentence Batty - him promising a referendum was all about trying to make it look to the UKIP types that voting for his Conservatives should be their way forward. If he and his party hadn't done such a good job on destroying their witless Liberal partners there would probably have been another hung parliament whereby the Liberals would have stymied the referendum and he'd have been able to say "damn, what a pity, I really, really wanted a referendum but those blighters have stopped me". A combination of his party's annihilation of their Liberal 'friends' plus the promise of a referendum that brought UKIP types on board gave him his 2015 victory, one that turned out to be pyrrhic as he then had no choice but to have the referendum that he never wanted, and within a year of his electoral 'triumph' he was gone. The problem with that is that the Liberal Democrats also had an 'in/out' referendum in their manifesto in 2015. Maybe they would have argued for a slightly different version or a different sort of campaign, but there would likely still have been something of the sort. In England at least, if you wanted to avoid a referendum you had to vote Labour. You got me there
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Post by crossbat11 on Jan 8, 2024 15:59:24 GMT
crossbat11Wigan Athletic welcome Manchester United to the DW Stadium in the Emirates FA Cup Third Round. Over 22,500 supporters have secured their seats for the now sold-out fixture, which will be Latics’ highest home attendance since Aston Villa on the final day of the 2012/13 Premier League season. ************************** Dunno what was so special about Villa. "You've only come to see the Villa. You've only come to see the Villa. Come to see the Villaaaaa..." Or the less polite one, sung dismissively to departing home fans, leaving early in defeat. "You've come and seen the Villa now f**k off home, you've come and seen the Villa now...." Terrace wit and wisdom at its very finest. More seriously, that end of 2012/13 season fixture between the two clubs potentially had a lot riding on it. A relegation shoot out with a winner takes all scenario possible. Both clubs were mired in a relegation dogfight as the season drew to its denouement. As it happened, because of results elsewhere before the game took place, it became a meaningless end of season affair with both clubs already safe. It ended 2-2, I think, but the game had been sold out weeks beforehand because of its potential jeopardy. An anti climax occurred instead. Didn't stop quite a few Birmingham City fans shelling out on Wigan shirts though, with Blues badges sewn on to them, nor coaches being booked in advance. They wanted to be there so that they could tell their grandchildren that they were there the day the Villa went down!! Mind you, they only had to wait another three years before their wishes came true. I seem to remember them hauling a claret and blue coffin into the ground at their last away game that season. Payback for years of us taking the mickey in the city. We had plenty to feed on. I didn't begrudge them their fun at our expense that day, nor their schadenfreude.
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Post by guymonde on Jan 8, 2024 16:05:43 GMT
He offended me grievously with his recent comments about the televised Villa v Boro Cup tie. Just be careful. I have in on good authority - Gary Neville and the BBC - that Aston Villa are werewolves Attachments:
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Post by robbiealive on Jan 8, 2024 16:11:51 GMT
Never saw it, as I don't much like sci-fi & it was on at a time when I was always out. I indoctrinated my daughter agin sci-fi so I didn;t have to see the films. We were stuck somewhere once when she was small. The only film on offer was sci-fi. She refused to see it! Your education has been sadly lacking. Star Trek, both the TV series and the films, represents a standard to which we should aspire. Even in the original 60s TV series there were principal characters who were Japanese (Sulu) and Russian (Chekov) as well as Michelle Nichols as Uhura. The whole concept represented the ideals of the founders of the United Nations, projected forward by several centuries. Patrick Stewart as Jean-Luc Picard is still my favourite Captain. Oi Mush, watch it! - as they used to say in N Essex when I was growing up. (Probably still do: the Braintree Bovver Boy, pjw1961 will know.) Saw one episode of Star Trek: clever, but then US writers are v smart. Friend of mine defends Shatner's appalling acting by saying "you have to be a brilliant actor to act so badly". This is what's called a non-verifiable proposition. As for its values: there is the view it's imperialistic, "othering" claptrap. I make no judgement. Never seen a STrek or Star Wars movie. Blockbusters seemed to have killed the impressive New (Wave & v sexist) Hollywood cinema. Scorsese (the greatest director of that generation?) is right to say Comic Book Movies are tripe. Saw half a Batman film with Robert Pattison: every moronic minute was excruciating. Nolan, who seems to have pioneered dark stuff, has a lot to answer for: & his Dunkirk was dreadful. If I played the parlour game of naming my favourite movies: they would include His Girl Friday (1940), Casablanca (1942), It's a Wonderful Life (1946), The Seven Samurai (1954), Vertigo (1958), The Apartment (1960), The Godfather (1972), Chinatown (1974), The German Sisters (Von Trotta, 1981), Bad Education (Almodovar, 2004), etc etc. The list would vary depending on mood but the first four always there: plus The German Sisters - the most powerful, & intrinsically manipulative, film I have ever seen. I think nearly all these films have worthwhile values or say something about human behaviour, good & bad. Comic book movies, for me, are empty calories. Tastes differ: but in my defence I would say I have watched films for 60 years.
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pjw1961
Member
Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
Posts: 8,397
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Post by pjw1961 on Jan 8, 2024 16:16:44 GMT
The problem with that is that the Liberal Democrats also had an 'in/out' referendum in their manifesto in 2015. Maybe they would have argued for a slightly different version or a different sort of campaign, but there would likely still have been something of the sort. In England at least, if you wanted to avoid a referendum you had to vote Labour. You got me there For the record, the 2015 Lib Dem policy was: "Hold an In/Out referendum when there is next any Treaty change involving a material transfer of sovereignty from the UK to the EU. Liberal Democrats will campaign for the UK to remain in the European Union when that referendum comes." I must say that blithe over-confidence has been something of a Lib Dem trait in the last 15 years or so. Also in the "longest suicide note in history" stakes, I note that the Lib Dem 2015 manifesto ran to 160 pages, which comes out at 15,100 votes gained per page .
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Post by lululemonmustdobetter on Jan 8, 2024 16:28:05 GMT
lululemonmustdobetter 'Personally, I think the polarisation caused by the campaign itself and its aftermath, has meant many have become far more pro-EU than they were before 2016.' I'm interested by your comment and wondering if you could elaborate. Hi athena , reading your post I think we have come to similar conclusions.
Personally, I think the polarisation caused by the nature in which the campaigns were conducted (the Leave campaign following a particularly divisive one) and the aftermath of the vote, fostered a situation where for some support for EU membership became a much greater element of their identity than it ever had been previously. I also think that for many, particularly in the metropolitan centres, who had benefited from the economic model of which EU membership was a part and being able to access other aspects EU citizenship, had been complacent prior to the vote and then after felt a genuinely sincere sense of loss. Post the result, many gladly took on the badge of 'remainer', as part of their identity signalling the possession of values opposite to that of the Brexit voter - socially liberal, pro EU etc. If the other side was against something, one became more pro-it.
I have to admit to be at least partially impacted in this way, especially in regards to viewing those who voted Brexit as potentially motivated by racism, due to an experience my husband had after the vote. Being a fully paid up member of the pinko-leftie London liberal elite, I saw many of my friends and acquaintances, as well as close family, became increasingly ardent pro-Europeans. I had always been fairly sceptical of the EU, and had accepted much of the left-wing critique of it, but in the period 16-19 found myself much more pro-EU than I had ever been before. I for one became a passionate believer in the need for a second referendum, on the basis that it had not been clear to many what was actually being voted for in the original.
Retrospectively, I can see that a solution that was less damaging to the country could have been sought, but was thwarted by the political dynamics that were operating at the time and nature of the key political characters. Sadly, what's done is done, and I see little value in castigating anyone who voted for Brexit, for me the question is what do we in the future to undo the damage.
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Post by mark61 on Jan 8, 2024 16:33:05 GMT
Robbie has commenced desert island movies! So here's mine; Casablanca, The Third Man, Spartacus, Godfather 1, Raging Bull, The Big Lebowski, Withnail and I, Fargo. Two Scenes that always make me tear up, the singing of the Marseillaise in Casablanca, and Kirk Douglas on the Cross in Spartacus!
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neilj
Member
Posts: 6,024
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Post by neilj on Jan 8, 2024 17:00:56 GMT
Redfield Wilton Labour leads by 16% in our first poll of 2024. Westminster Voting Intention (7 Jan.):
Labour 43% (+1) Conservative 27% (+3) Reform UK 11% (+1) Liberal Democrat 10% (-1) Green 5% (-1) Scottish National Party 3% (-1) Other 2% (–)
Changes +/- 17 Dec.
Best PM
'Starmer leads Sunak by 15% as election year begins.
At this moment, which of the following do Britons think would be the better Prime Minister for the UK? (7 January)
Keir Starmer 45% (+6) Rishi Sunak 30% (-2)
Changes +/- 17 December'
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neilj
Member
Posts: 6,024
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Post by neilj on Jan 8, 2024 17:12:58 GMT
This isxwhy the tories will lose Sunak can say as many times as he likes tat things are getting better, but the public aren't buying it
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Post by isa on Jan 8, 2024 17:22:29 GMT
If I played the parlour game of naming my favourite movies: they would include His Girl Friday (1940), Casablanca (1942), It's a Wonderful Life (1946), The Seven Samurai (1954), Vertigo (1958), The Apartment (1960), The Godfather (1972), Chinatown (1974), The German Sisters (Von Trotta, 1981), Bad Education (Almodovar, 2004), etc etc. The list would vary depending on mood but the first four always there: plus The German Sisters - the most powerful, & intrinsically manipulative, film I have ever seen. I think nearly all these films have worthwhile values or say something about human behaviour, good & bad. Comic book movies, for me, are empty calories. Tastes differ: but in my defence I would say I have watched films for 60 years. I know I'm probably the worst offender on here for rabbiting on about (mainly old) films, and I try to restrain myself. But hey, like Pavlov's Dog, when the subject is raised, I start salivating. When I was in Italy over Christmas, my friends' neighbours joined us on Boxing Day. Their delightful daughter is studying film. She is already very knowledgeable of many landmark films such as 'Battleship Potemkin', (1925), but, knowing that I'm a boring old fart old film buff, she asked me to recommend 12 British/American films from the Golden Age for her to check out over the coming year. Not necessarily landmark films, rather, more accessible films which demonstrated high points in terms of direction, cinematography, script, acting, artistry, production values and the like. I came up with: 'The Lady Vanishes' (1938) 'Duck Soup' (1933) 'Casblanca' (1942) '12 Angry Men' (1957) 'Gone With The Wind' (1939) 'North by North-West' (1959) 'City Lights' (1931) 'Singin' in the Rain' (1952) ''The Adventures of Robin Hood' (1938) 'It Happened One Night' (1934) 'The Third Man' (1949) 'Top Hat' (1935) There's some good stuff in there for her to check out, I reckon.
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domjg
Member
Posts: 5,106
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Post by domjg on Jan 8, 2024 17:33:50 GMT
lululemonmustdobetter 'Personally, I think the polarisation caused by the campaign itself and its aftermath, has meant many have become far more pro-EU than they were before 2016.' I'm interested by your comment and wondering if you could elaborate. Hi athena , reading your post I think we have come to similar conclusions.
Personally, I think the polarisation caused by the nature in which the campaigns were conducted (the Leave campaign following a particularly divisive one) and the aftermath of the vote, fostered a situation where for some support for EU membership became a much greater element of their identity than it ever had been previously. I also think that for many, particularly in the metropolitan centres, who had benefited from the economic model of which EU membership was a part and being able to access other aspects EU citizenship, had been complacent prior to the vote and then after felt a genuinely sincere sense of loss. Post the result, many gladly took on the badge of 'remainer', as part of their identity signalling the possession of values opposite to that of the Brexit voter - socially liberal, pro EU etc. If the other side was against something, one became more pro-it.
I have to admit to be at least partially impacted in this way, especially in regards to viewing those who voted Brexit as potentially motivated by racism, due to an experience my husband had after the vote. Being a fully paid up member of the pinko-leftie London liberal elite, I saw many of my friends and acquaintances, as well as close family, became increasingly ardent pro-Europeans. I had always been fairly sceptical of the EU, and had accepted much of the left-wing critique of it, but in the period 16-19 found myself much more pro-EU than I had ever been before. I for one became a passionate believer in the need for a second referendum, on the basis that it had not been clear to many what was actually being voted for in the original.
Retrospectively, I can see that a solution that was less damaging to the country could have been sought, but was thwarted by the political dynamics that were operating at the time and nature of the key political characters. Sadly, what's done is done, and I see little value in castigating anyone who voted for Brexit, for me the question is what do we in the future to undo the damage.This is pretty much my own experience. Studying languages at university and having worked in other EU states I took the benefits of membership for granted but until the run up to the referendum I was indeed myself ambivalent about the EU as an organisation/project and had always swung back and forth. I recall arguments with German friends where I would say that only Germans ever called themselves 'Europeans' due to shame felt over their own national identity and even occasionally got into arguments on German discussion forums with pro EU Germans who had me down as a typical Englaender. The Euro crisis added to my then scepticism. Once the referendum was called however I knew what was at stake and was never complacent that it would be won. I knew what could be lost both for me and my many EU citizen friends and colleagues. From then on I was a complete convert and took part in the (very poorly organised and lame) campaigning for Better Together. During that I was exposed to some of the really unpleasant nonsense spouted by those planning to vote leave. The rage I felt post referendum, the strength of which surprised even me, also showed me where my true feelings had always been. I realised that I had always been a European at heart but had been still influenced by some of the misconceptions about this country that some still display and I've now completely shed. I am now 100% one of those 'Europeans' I took the mickey out of German friends for being circa 2013 and have never felt more estranged from my British/English identity.
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steve
Member
Posts: 12,263
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Post by steve on Jan 8, 2024 17:41:35 GMT
In rent a gob news
Tory deputy chair Lee Anderson claims Ed Davey to blame for Post Office staff being wrongly jailed Lee Anderson, deputy chair of the Conservative party,, in an interview on GB News, he suggested that Davey was to blame for people going to jail, and even for some people taking their lives.
Of course none of the five conservative postal ministers since hold any responsibility.
If there's an opportunity to be a wanker Leanderthal is your man.
Davey would not accept this libellous allegation . He has said that he did challenge Post Office management about claims that convictions were unsafe, but that managers did not tell him the truth.
It's blatant hypocrisy from 30p who has repeatedly shown he couldn't give a shit about working people and their problems.
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Post by jib on Jan 8, 2024 17:57:43 GMT
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Post by robbiealive on Jan 8, 2024 18:18:09 GMT
Robbie has commenced desert island movies! So here's mine; Casablanca, The Third Man, Spartacus, Godfather 1, Raging Bull, The Big Lebowski, Withnail and I, Fargo. Two Scenes that always make me tear up, the singing of the Marseillaise in Casablanca, and Kirk Douglas on the Cross in Spartacus! I never rated Kirk Douglas& was glad when they crucified him. He should have been in a sci-fi movie swallowing the whole planet in his chin dimple. Agree about Marseillaise. But it was stolen from Renoir's, La Grande Illusion, POW camp film (1939?), in which the anthem is possibly even more affecting. Indeed, film originated most POW motifs wch became laborious cliches in '50s Brit POW Films. Film was nearly banned after 45 as it features the great Gabin abusing his Jewish co-escapee. But there is a context...... The final majestic scene features the two arm-in-arm, in a long shot, crossing the Swiss frontier in thigh high snow. Again often repeated.
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Post by robbiealive on Jan 8, 2024 18:27:26 GMT
isa[/quote]I know I'm probably the worst offender on here for rabbiting on about (mainly old) films, and I try to restrain myself. But hey, like Pavlov's Dog, when the subject is raised, I start salivating. When I was in Italy over Christmas, my friends' neighbours joined us onm Boxing Day. Their delightful daughter is studying film. She is already very knowledgeable of many landmark films such as 'Battleship Potemkin', (1925), but, knowing that I'm a boring old fart old film buff, she asked me to recommend 12 British/American films from the Golden Age for her to check out over the coming year. Not necessarily landmark films, rather, more accessible films which demonstrated high points in terms of direction, cinematography, script, acting, artistry, production values and the like. I came up with: 'The Lady Vanishes' (1938) 'Duck Soup' (1933) 'Casblanca' (1942) '12 Angry Men' (1957) 'Gone With The Wind' (1939) 'North by North-West' (1959) 'City Lights' (1931) 'Singin' in the Rain' (1952) ''The Adventures of Robin Hood' (1938) 'It Happened One Night' (1934) 'The Third Man' (1949) 'Top Hat' (1935) There's some good stuff in there for her to check out, I reckon. [/quote] pretty fair list to me. I have eight or nine of those classics on DVD. I lack the two musicals and the swashbuckler. But those were very popular genres at the time and omitting them would give a false impression of the era, esp on technical side
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steve
Member
Posts: 12,263
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Post by steve on Jan 8, 2024 18:54:57 GMT
Jib certainly knows how to pick a reliable source " Hunky Dory" in addition to literally dozens of posts blaming Ed Davey for the entire horizons scandal , never a mention of a Tory of course, Dory also finds time for gratuitously insulting Sadiq Khan, retweeting far right football supporters, numerous islamophobic,homophobic, transphobic posts and a whole plethora of hagiography for his hero Suella Braverman.
For someone who insists they aren't a Tory you choose very interesting references.
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Dave
Member
... I'm dreaming dreams, I'm scheming schemes, I'm building castles high ..
Posts: 818
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Post by Dave on Jan 8, 2024 19:18:09 GMT
This isxwhy the tories will lose Sunak can say as many times as he likes tat things are getting better, but the public aren't buying it I agree with your conclusion Neil. This is damning for the Conservatives as it reflects a belief and a mood that appears to be settled. It can’t be played down or talked away. It’s bad enough that one of your own MPs confesses that the country is “sadder” and “less united” than when you took power but for more than two thirds of your 2019 voters to think things are worse now than 2010, then that’s something else entirely. Surely there’s no coming back from that. This might just be the most interesting and significant polling we’ve seen for a fair old while.
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pjw1961
Member
Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
Posts: 8,397
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Post by pjw1961 on Jan 8, 2024 19:26:41 GMT
This isxwhy the tories will lose Sunak can say as many times as he likes tat things are getting better, but the public aren't buying it I agree with your conclusion Neil. This is damning for the Conservatives as it reflects a belief and a mood that appears to be settled. It can’t be played down or talked away. It’s bad enough that one of your own MPs confesses that the country is “sadder” and “less united” than when you took power but for more than two thirds of your 2019 voters to think things are worse now than 2010, then that’s something else entirely. Surely there’s no coming back from that. This might just be the most interesting and significant polling we’ve seen for a fair old while. It is also interesting that there is very little difference between "remain" and "leave" in that poll. Normally there is quite a noticeable cultural difference, but not on this. The people are finally united - just sad that it is in agreeing that the country has gone to the dogs.
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Post by lululemonmustdobetter on Jan 8, 2024 19:30:30 GMT
If I played the parlour game of naming my favourite movies: they would include His Girl Friday (1940), Casablanca (1942), It's a Wonderful Life (1946), The Seven Samurai (1954), Vertigo (1958), The Apartment (1960), The Godfather (1972), Chinatown (1974), The German Sisters (Von Trotta, 1981), Bad Education (Almodovar, 2004), etc etc. The list would vary depending on mood but the first four always there: plus The German Sisters - the most powerful, & intrinsically manipulative, film I have ever seen. I think nearly all these films have worthwhile values or say something about human behaviour, good & bad. Comic book movies, for me, are empty calories. Tastes differ: but in my defence I would say I have watched films for 60 years. I know I'm probably the worst offender on here for rabbiting on about (mainly old) films, and I try to restrain myself. But hey, like Pavlov's Dog, when the subject is raised, I start salivating. When I was in Italy over Christmas, my friends' neighbours joined us on Boxing Day. Their delightful daughter is studying film. She is already very knowledgeable of many landmark films such as 'Battleship Potemkin', (1925), but, knowing that I'm a boring old fart old film buff, she asked me to recommend 12 British/American films from the Golden Age for her to check out over the coming year. Not necessarily landmark films, rather, more accessible films which demonstrated high points in terms of direction, cinematography, script, acting, artistry, production values and the like. I came up with: 'The Lady Vanishes' (1938) 'Duck Soup' (1933) 'Casblanca' (1942) '12 Angry Men' (1957) 'Gone With The Wind' (1939) 'North by North-West' (1959) 'City Lights' (1931) 'Singin' in the Rain' (1952) ''The Adventures of Robin Hood' (1938) 'It Happened One Night' (1934) 'The Third Man' (1949) 'Top Hat' (1935) There's some good stuff in there for her to check out, I reckon. What, no Citizen Kane! No Psycho! No Stuart Little! Philistines the two of you.
Actually I like a lot of robbiealive list - however disagree with the rather elitist attitude towards blockbusters and sci-fi. Star Wars was heavily influenced by The Hidden Fortress, although The Empire Strikes Back is a much better film. Personally I think film as spectacle, escapism and entertainment is just as valid and worthy of praise as for intellectual stimulation or insight.
As one would expect both of your lists are rather blokeish. As a bit of a counter balance here is my top ten: The Sound of Music, Ten Things I Hate About You, Clueless, Terms of Endearment (always makes me cry), My Fair Lady, Amelie, The Empire Strikes Back, The Princess Bride, Heathers and Mean Girls.
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Post by crossbat11 on Jan 8, 2024 19:39:03 GMT
Dave
Pjw1961 has amassed polling evidence during this Parliament that points to an impending change of government, certainly if historical precedent is to be relied upon. The poll that neilj has shared, and on which you have just commented, supports this hypothesis too.
It has "time for a change" written all over it.
Call it the feelbad factor, if you like. Fatal for the incumbents unless they can miraculously turn it into feelgood.
Is there any plausible argument available that suggests that achieving this turnaround in sentiment is going to be remotely possible over the next 12 months?
Maybe the Tory strategy will be based on an acceptance of that impossibility and the only shot left in their locker is frightening the horses about the alternative.
And I think, from hereon in, that's what they'll desperately try to do. Time to don the hard hats and flak jackets my opposition friends.
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pjw1961
Member
Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
Posts: 8,397
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Post by pjw1961 on Jan 8, 2024 19:52:56 GMT
Dave Pjw1961 has amassed polling evidence during this Parliament that points to an impending change of government, certainly if historical precedent is to be relied upon. The poll that neilj has shared, and on which you have just commented, supports this hypothesis too. It has "time for a change" written all over it. Call it the feelbad factor, if you like. Fatal for the incumbents unless they can miraculously turn it into feelgood. Is there any plausible argument available that suggests that achieving this turnaround in sentiment is going to be remotely possible over the next 12 months? Maybe the Tory strategy will be based on an acceptance of that impossibility and the only shot left in their locker is frightening the horses about the alternative. And I think, from hereon in, that's what they'll desperately try to do. Time to don the hard hats and flak jackets my opposition friends. One other piece of evidence - there is a well-known fact that parties that win elections typically lead in the polls on both 'leadership' and 'the economy'. It is possible to win leading on only one of those (as the Conservatives did in 1979 when they were behind on leadership but had a big lead on the economy), but no party has ever won if behind on both. Sunak has slid rapidly backwards while Starmer has held his ground and edged up a bit, giving Labour growing leads on leadership and Labour hold small leads on the economy ('neither' being the winner here). I don't see Sunak turning round the leadership ratings - he seems to combine insincere, out of touch and tetchy in equal measure. It is possible the Tories could edge ahead on the economy, given the Labour leads are not huge, but they are getting no credit (rightly IMO) for what good news there is, so it seems unlikely.
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pjw1961
Member
Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
Posts: 8,397
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Post by pjw1961 on Jan 8, 2024 20:07:01 GMT
Just to note the passing of Franz Beckenbauer, one of the small number of all time great footballers.
It is a sad coincidence, following the recent death of Mario Zagallo, that two of only three men ever to win the World Cup as player and manager should die with a few days of one another.
(Any longer posting would belong on the sports thread).
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Danny
Member
Posts: 9,818
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Post by Danny on Jan 8, 2024 20:17:06 GMT
He said as business secretary he did not have the power stop the Post Office prosecutions. Ministers only had the right to make requests, he said. Parliament had given the Post Office enormous powers not just to operate commercially, but to run a kind of private police force a bit like the railways. There was mounting concern, I think, in the department about this, but it wasn’t at all clear what we could do to intervene. Welll, thats complete bollocks. Government ALWAYS has power to intervene. Its just a question firstly whether it wants to, and secondy the fuss which it will cause if it does. I would imagine a clear lecture to the post office that the prosecutions must end today would have been enough, backed by the clear threat to enact emergency legislation if necessary within a week. But I really doubt that would be necessary, the threat of government retribution would be enough. But doing this would immediately bring matters to a head, that government believed the post office had done something wrong, that would derail privatisation completely. WHat Cable says about many ministers being in the same boat here is rather more to the point. It was government policy to smoothly privatise the PO, and so there could not be a scandal. This may date all the way back to the Major government who had authority at the outset, and rather more direct control of the PO too.
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Post by graham on Jan 8, 2024 20:27:53 GMT
Skidmore has written to Jeremy Hunt asking to be appointed to the Chiltern Hundreds or Steward of Northstead.
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domjg
Member
Posts: 5,106
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Post by domjg on Jan 8, 2024 20:27:59 GMT
Jib certainly knows how to pick a reliable source " Hunky Dory" in addition to literally dozens of posts blaming Ed Davey for the entire horizons scandal , never a mention of a Tory of course, Dory also finds time for gratuitously insulting Sadiq Khan, retweeting far right football supporters, numerous islamophobic,homophobic, transphobic posts and a whole plethora of hagiography for his hero Suella Braverman. For someone who insists they aren't a Tory you choose very interesting references. Something about ducks and what they look like and sound like
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Danny
Member
Posts: 9,818
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Post by Danny on Jan 8, 2024 20:41:29 GMT
He has said that he did challenge Post Office management about claims that convictions were unsafe, but that managers did not tell him the truth. And that excuse is precisely why privatisation of natural monopolies is rather a bad idea. Of course they lied to him, the whole purpose of separating government from direct control was so that they would be able to lie to him , and any other minister of any comparable national essential industry. The whole point of the exercise is to absolve ministers from blame when something goes wrong, or those newly privatised companies seek to fleece the general public for every penny they can get.
And I am bemused why letters cost a pound to post while ebay will sell you goods at less than the cost of a stamp which will be delivered to your door. The postal service has been broken up with the result the service is terrible, and vastly expensive. So that private companies can make lots of money.
If people fail to understand why the Uk economy is doing so badly, one massive cause is privatisations. The whole point of them was to create money making opportunities for already rich people. But in so doing they have added cost to Uk industry, which always has to bear Uk labour costs, which have to cover the electricity bill, the mortgage or rent, and the cost of a stamp. We have had 40 years of making Britain too expensive to do business in.
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Post by hireton on Jan 8, 2024 20:58:09 GMT
If I played the parlour game of naming my favourite movies: they would include His Girl Friday (1940), Casablanca (1942), It's a Wonderful Life (1946), The Seven Samurai (1954), Vertigo (1958), The Apartment (1960), The Godfather (1972), Chinatown (1974), The German Sisters (Von Trotta, 1981), Bad Education (Almodovar, 2004), etc etc. The list would vary depending on mood but the first four always there: plus The German Sisters - the most powerful, & intrinsically manipulative, film I have ever seen. I think nearly all these films have worthwhile values or say something about human behaviour, good & bad. Comic book movies, for me, are empty calories. Tastes differ: but in my defence I would say I have watched films for 60 years. I know I'm probably the worst offender on here for rabbiting on about (mainly old) films, and I try to restrain myself. But hey, like Pavlov's Dog, when the subject is raised, I start salivating. When I was in Italy over Christmas, my friends' neighbours joined us on Boxing Day. Their delightful daughter is studying film. She is already very knowledgeable of many landmark films such as 'Battleship Potemkin', (1925), but, knowing that I'm a boring old fart old film buff, she asked me to recommend 12 British/American films from the Golden Age for her to check out over the coming year. Not necessarily landmark films, rather, more accessible films which demonstrated high points in terms of direction, cinematography, script, acting, artistry, production values and the like. I came up with: 'The Lady Vanishes' (1938) 'Duck Soup' (1933) 'Casblanca' (1942) '12 Angry Men' (1957) 'Gone With The Wind' (1939) 'North by North-West' (1959) 'City Lights' (1931) 'Singin' in the Rain' (1952) ''The Adventures of Robin Hood' (1938) 'It Happened One Night' (1934) 'The Third Man' (1949) 'Top Hat' (1935) There's some good stuff in there for her to check out, I reckon. No Powell and Pressburger films?!
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Post by jib on Jan 8, 2024 21:06:07 GMT
Starmer must explain why he didn’t intervene in Horizon scandal, says Farage "Labour leader, director of public prosecutions when cases came to light, ‘has serious questions to answer’ claims ex-Ukip chief"
No he doesn't & you never were the brightest were you Nigel.....the Post Office has powers to bring its own prosecutions.
Doesn't get others off the hook though!
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Post by graham on Jan 8, 2024 21:18:28 GMT
Skidmore has been appointed to the Chiltern Hundreds.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2024 21:18:32 GMT
Jib certainly knows how to pick a reliable source " Hunky Dory" in addition to literally dozens of posts blaming Ed Davey for the entire horizons scandal , never a mention of a Tory of course, Dory also finds time for gratuitously insulting Sadiq Khan, retweeting far right football supporters, numerous islamophobic,homophobic, transphobic posts and a whole plethora of hagiography for his hero Suella Braverman. For someone who insists they aren't a Tory you choose very interesting references. Something about ducks and what they look like and sound like And knowing someone by their bedfellows. Not that ole Jibby takes a lot of decoding with the pastel set he presumably got for xmas.
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