c-a-r-f-r-e-w
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A step on the way toward the demise of the liberal elite? Or just a blip…
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Aug 19, 2023 14:35:43 GMT
ChatGPT holds ‘systemic’ left-wing bias, researchers sayFindings come amid heightened regulatory scrutiny of generative AI models “ ChatGPT has been accused of a “systematic” left-wing bias that reflects the positions of Labour and US Democrat politicians, raising concerns over its use in policymaking and education.
Researchers found that the chatbot’s responses generally favour left-leaning political beliefs, despite efforts to reduce bias.
The study, led by academics at the University of East Anglia (UEA), claims to be the first large-scale research into ChatGPT’s political slant.
Companies and governments around the world are racing to develop large language models (LLMs) with similar technology to the OpenAI-made chatbot.
“ChatGPT presents a significant and systematic political bias toward the Democrats in the US, Lula in Brazil, and the Labour Party in the UK,” the UEA study’s authors wrote.
“These results translate into real concerns that ChatGPT, and LLMs in general, can extend or even amplify the existing challenges involving political processes posed by the internet and social media.” I wonder if that is because it was fed a random selection of source material, and the overall bias of that material is what would be considered left wing. In other words, that politicians around the world tend to be more right wing than their populations? Well, if you check the subsequent post, that didn’t seem to apply quite as much to the other chat bots that were all to the right of ChatGPT? |
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Post by jib on Aug 19, 2023 14:37:42 GMT
@fecklessmiser I've nothing to offer in defence of Clegg, I was a Labour party member at the time. I think if the lib dems had still been in coalition with the Tories after 2015 as I suspect Cameron wanted the referendum would have been kicked into the very long grass and if held at all would have seen a change in the mandate for participation and possibly the majority required. But they weren't and the clustershambles of the 2016 referendum was entirely down to the Tories making and design. But I'm sure jib will be along to explain how it was really all Danny Alexander's fault. That is far from clear because the LDs had come out in favour of a Referendum as early as 2008. Indeed. But we should have learnt by now that promises mean little to our Lib Dem friends.  |
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Aug 19, 2023 14:47:14 GMT
I’m blaming Cameron for very simple reasons: HE was Prime Minister and HE called the referendum - and for purely party political reasons. He lost it and buggered off. It was disgraceful, unnecessary and reckless and has had appalling consequences. But they never learn do they!
Sunak is now toying with playing the same game with the ECHR, with possibly the same consequences.
They only ever think as far as the next election and screw any real world consequences. |
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steve
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Post by steve on Aug 19, 2023 14:57:04 GMT
Jibs digging deep into his scrap book of fond memories, here we see a circa 2008 Nick Clegg campaigning for a referendum.Where does he find them? Does he have a hope chest under the bed with his favourite pictures of retired lib dem politicians,it's quite sweet really, unrequited love!
Now as this was nearly a decade before I joined the lib dems I can't comment on the policy other than it seemed a bit counter productive.
But I think it was probably with a view to put the delusional brexitanians like UKIP back in the box in 2009/10 given the overwhelming support for remain among all main parties and Clegg's popularity with the public if you were going to hold a referendum then might have been as good a time as any..
Which of course was Cameron's idea as well, equally mistaken , there's no accounting for stupidity.
I really fail to see why Jib bangs on about the policies of an ex politician of a party he doesn't support from 15 years ago and think it proves anything about the current situation.Neither the Tory or Labour party particularly the former resemble their 2008 versions either.
Actually that's charitable I understand exactly why Jib does it it's standard projection from the total fuck up that his beloved Brexit has caused.
The maga fascists use similar techniques.
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steve
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Post by steve on Aug 19, 2023 15:09:51 GMT
Interesting examination of the possible events if the sweaty orange traitor became president again in relation to enforcement of a state crime sentence of imprisonment. Short answer it wouldn't be good. Brian Taylor Cohen legal breakdown with an interesting take. First 5 minutes or so are most relevant. youtu.be/NLdljgjiwgs |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2023 15:45:43 GMT
Interesting examination of the possible events if the sweaty orange traitor became president again in relation to enforcement of a state crime sentence of imprisonment. Short answer it wouldn't be good. Brian Taylor Cohen legal breakdown with an interesting take. First 5 minutes or so are most relevant. youtu.be/NLdljgjiwgsThink the odds are hugely against. But, of course, the issue should never be in question. Sadly America is at least one third very weird. |
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steve
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Post by steve on Aug 19, 2023 16:11:47 GMT
"Labour has opened up a huge lead over the Tories among women voters, many of whom are turning to Keir Starmer’s party because they feel financially insecure after 13 years of Conservative rule, a new report says today.
The analysis by Labour Together, a thinktank whose report is based on extensive polling and academic analysis, finds that the financial worries of huge numbers of women voters – particularly those aged under 50 – are persuading many to back Labour and reject the Conservatives.
According to a poll of more than 5,000 people by YouGov, Labour now has a 28-point lead over the Tories among women, compared with a 21-point advantage among men.
Labour’s landslide victories under Tony Blair saw Labour win many more votes than the Tories among both women and men. However, in 1997, Labour was still winning more of its votes from men. Following the 2005 and 2010 elections, where the percentage of men and women voting Labour nearly equalised, David Cameron reopened the gender gap in 2015, with women representing 55% of all Tory voters. "
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Post by mercian on Aug 19, 2023 16:55:30 GMT
The next step has to be equality of salaries. But how amazing will it it be if, after all the barren years since 1966, our women’s team manage to win both the European and World cups in just TWO, successive years? Equality of salary will only come if equality of income is achieved by the clubs. I believe that the main part of football's income comes from TV rights. There's a reason the BBC has women's football and Sky and others have the men's. It's all the BBC could afford. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2023 17:06:57 GMT
The next step has to be equality of salaries. But how amazing will it it be if, after all the barren years since 1966, our women’s team manage to win both the European and World cups in just TWO, successive years? Equality of salary will only come if equality of income is achieved by the clubs. I believe that the main part of football's income comes from TV rights. There's a reason the BBC has women's football and Sky and others have the men's. It's all the BBC could afford. The BBC have the rights to Premier League MOTD and show loads of England matches. I think they championed women’s footy for quite a while. I think it’s more a chicken and egg situation and obviously the top clubs can initially afford to comfortably subsidise their women’s teams. Arsenal have demonstrated with matches at the Emirates just how popular these can be at a league level. |
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
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Post by pjw1961 on Aug 19, 2023 18:14:55 GMT
"Labour has opened up a huge lead over the Tories among women voters, many of whom are turning to Keir Starmer’s party because they feel financially insecure after 13 years of Conservative rule, a new report says today. The analysis by Labour Together, a thinktank whose report is based on extensive polling and academic analysis, finds that the financial worries of huge numbers of women voters – particularly those aged under 50 – are persuading many to back Labour and reject the Conservatives. According to a poll of more than 5,000 people by YouGov, Labour now has a 28-point lead over the Tories among women, compared with a 21-point advantage among men. Labour’s landslide victories under Tony Blair saw Labour win many more votes than the Tories among both women and men. However, in 1997, Labour was still winning more of its votes from men. Following the 2005 and 2010 elections, where the percentage of men and women voting Labour nearly equalised, David Cameron reopened the gender gap in 2015, with women representing 55% of all Tory voters. " It has been an interesting reversal in recent years, as traditionally women were more likely to be Conservative voters than men were. I read an analysis once that said that had women not been able to vote Labour would have won every election from 1945 to 1979 inclusive. In the entire period 1945-2010 the Conservatives would only have been in office from 1983 to 1992. Women being less likely to work in industry and in unionised work places has been suggested as a reason for the discrepancy. An interesting point in the article steve is quoting is that women have very little interest in the Tory "culture wars" agenda and are not swayed by it - seems to be aimed largely at 'angry white men'. |
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Post by Mark on Aug 19, 2023 18:48:53 GMT
An interesting point in the article steve is quoting is that women have very little interest in the Tory "culture wars" agenda and are not swayed by it - seems to be aimed largely at 'angry white men'. Polling suggests that the same is true of younger voters - both male and female. I've said it before, several times, if the tories carry on with this, they are digging their own grave. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2023 18:52:39 GMT
An interesting point in the article steve is quoting is that women have very little interest in the Tory "culture wars" agenda and are not swayed by it - seems to be aimed largely at 'angry white men'. Polling suggests that the same is true of younger voters - both male and female. I've said it before, several times, if the tories carry on with this, they are digging their own grave. I think - and fervently hope - they have already dug it, shored it up and erected a gravestone. |
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Post by shevii on Aug 19, 2023 19:36:34 GMT
Equality of salary will only come if equality of income is achieved by the clubs. I believe that the main part of football's income comes from TV rights. There's a reason the BBC has women's football and Sky and others have the men's. It's all the BBC could afford. Lewes FC have the same budget for the mens and womens team. Obviously not going to work with professional moneybags teams but quite impressive- their women finished 9th in the "second division" last season so 21st best women's team in the country. Mens were 6th in the Isthmian Premier last season (currently 2nd) so it feels to me like the women's team and equal budgets has complemented both teams and given it a community feel with both sides helped (traditionally they have been hovering around the Isthmian anyway with a few years in the Conference South). Good example of how well communism works in practice :-) |
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Post by crossbat11 on Aug 19, 2023 20:05:44 GMT
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Post by crossbat11 on Aug 19, 2023 20:07:51 GMT
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Post by crossbat11 on Aug 19, 2023 20:16:41 GMT
Other little nuggets from the latest Opinium poll include Labour leading by 8% on the best party for handling immigration (!!!) and by 6% in the economy. Much bigger leads on other issues.
Extraordinary levels of voter volatility detected though, with a surprisingly high percentage of voters saying that they could still change their voting intention by the time of the election. This could be a straw to clutch for the Tories if it wasn't for the fact that, according to the poll, their vote is as potentially volatile as all the other parties!
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Aug 19, 2023 20:32:33 GMT
crossbat11Yes, the volatility is actually worse for the tories @opiniumresearch 1h When we ask likelihood to change your mind, 40% say they might change their voting preference before the election. But this is actually higher among current Con voters: only 44% say they will stick with the Tories vs. 54% of those currently planning to vote Lab
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Post by graham on Aug 19, 2023 20:38:32 GMT
At 16% the combined Reform and Green vote is still far too high. 8% would be a more credible figure. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2023 20:38:38 GMT
Polling suggests that the same is true of younger voters - both male and female. I've said it before, several times, if the tories carry on with this, they are digging their own grave. I think - and fervently hope - they have already dug it, shored it up and erected a gravestone. And a sign saying “no flowers just send the money to charities.” |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2023 20:41:25 GMT
graham “At 16% the combined Reform and Green vote is still far too high. 8% would be a more credible figure.“ I have adjusted them down equally and given the 8% to Labour. Thanks for that - it looks a lot better for the correction. 
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Post by mercian on Aug 19, 2023 20:42:50 GMT
Equality of salary will only come if equality of income is achieved by the clubs. I believe that the main part of football's income comes from TV rights. There's a reason the BBC has women's football and Sky and others have the men's. It's all the BBC could afford. Lewes FC have the same budget for the mens and womens team. Obviously not going to work with professional moneybags teams but quite impressive- their women finished 9th in the "second division" last season so 21st best women's team in the country. Mens were 6th in the Isthmian Premier last season (currently 2nd) so it feels to me like the women's team and equal budgets has complemented both teams and given it a community feel with both sides helped (traditionally they have been hovering around the Isthmian anyway with a few years in the Conference South). Good example of how well communism works in practice :-) And Manchester City for instance is a good example of how well capitalism works in practice. Men's team won pretty much everything and women finished 4th in the Womens' Super League. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2023 20:52:27 GMT
Lewes FC have the same budget for the mens and womens team. Obviously not going to work with professional moneybags teams but quite impressive- their women finished 9th in the "second division" last season so 21st best women's team in the country. Mens were 6th in the Isthmian Premier last season (currently 2nd) so it feels to me like the women's team and equal budgets has complemented both teams and given it a community feel with both sides helped (traditionally they have been hovering around the Isthmian anyway with a few years in the Conference South). Good example of how well communism works in practice :-) And Manchester City for instance is a good example of how well capitalism works in practice. Men's team won pretty much everything and women finished 4th in the Womens' Super League. Not sure what your point is? How long have Man City even had a women’s team compared to men’s? |
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Post by mercian on Aug 19, 2023 20:54:35 GMT
At 16% the combined Reform and Green vote is still far too high. 8% would be a more credible figure. I'm not so sure. With an unpopular government and a public less than enthused by Labour it could be that there will be a rise in protest votes. They won't get more than the odd seat, but could affect the result in a few places. If you're right, it's the Reform VI that's more likely to collapse than Green (IMO) and I would expect more of that to go to Tories than to Labour (if they bother to vote at all). |
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Aug 19, 2023 21:00:48 GMT
@cafrew - very true. Covid deaths stats are based on death certificates, so all of them have covid as the or a cause, so the death would not have happened without covid. The classic example where this is fundamentally wrong is eg a terminal cancer patient, whose family got very annoyd the death certificate said covid when obviously he was in the process of dying from cancer, and would not have succumbed to covid otherwise. If he had covid without cancer, survives. Cancer without covid, dies. But it got chalked up to covid. Thats plain wrong. Heres one for you though, www.medscape.com/viewarticle/995433?ecd=wnl_tp10_daily_230815_MSCPEDIT_etid5752477&uac=247785SG&impID=5752477#vp_1Its an article which argues the explanation of long covid is damage to mitochondria. It mentions some possible drugs which might be helpful, but to a large extent has a go at the US program costing $1bn to try to treat long covid, which has basically achieved nothing. Singularly failing to spend any of the money on trials for some of these possible drugs. Which kinda illustrates the problem here, I'm sure the people who did get the money were very happy. Covid has made lots of money for some. All history is littered with medical companies reputable enough in their time, whose products would now be regarded as useless or dangerous. Massive amounts of money was thrown at covid, but arguably most was wasted. |
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Post by mercian on Aug 19, 2023 21:01:55 GMT
And Manchester City for instance is a good example of how well capitalism works in practice. Men's team won pretty much everything and women finished 4th in the Womens' Super League. Not sure what your point is? How long have Man City even had a women’s team compared to men’s? The point is that shevii was saying that Lewes give equal funding to both men's and women's teams which is a good example of communism. However both teams are in low divisions. Manchester City for example have loads of money and do very well which I think is a good example of capitalism. Obviously no club has had a women's team as long as they have had men's teams because women weren't even allowed to play for a long time. Villa's goes back 50 years though. |
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Post by graham on Aug 19, 2023 21:14:03 GMT
At 16% the combined Reform and Green vote is still far too high. 8% would be a more credible figure. I'm not so sure. With an unpopular government and a public less than enthused by Labour it could be that there will be a rise in protest votes. They won't get more than the odd seat, but could affect the result in a few places. If you're right, it's the Reform VI that's more likely to collapse than Green (IMO) and I would expect more of that to go to Tories than to Labour (if they bother to vote at all). I expect a Green vote of circa 3% in a GE. |
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Post by James E on Aug 19, 2023 21:14:49 GMT
"Labour has opened up a huge lead over the Tories among women voters, many of whom are turning to Keir Starmer’s party because they feel financially insecure after 13 years of Conservative rule, a new report says today. The analysis by Labour Together, a thinktank whose report is based on extensive polling and academic analysis, finds that the financial worries of huge numbers of women voters – particularly those aged under 50 – are persuading many to back Labour and reject the Conservatives. According to a poll of more than 5,000 people by YouGov, Labour now has a 28-point lead over the Tories among women, compared with a 21-point advantage among men.
Labour’s landslide victories under Tony Blair saw Labour win many more votes than the Tories among both women and men. However, in 1997, Labour was still winning more of its votes from men. Following the 2005 and 2010 elections, where the percentage of men and women voting Labour nearly equalised, David Cameron reopened the gender gap in 2015, with women representing 55% of all Tory voters. " Thanks for that, Steve, interesting article. But it's also true that the current gender gap with Labour faring better among women has now been a feature of British politics for several years. I noted on this site back in December 2021 a series of YouGov polls with "Labour faring better with women than men by 12, 8, 9, 12 and 9 points". ukpollingreport2.proboards.com/thread/14/dec-2021-lab-con-ldem?page=81YouGov's GE2019 analysis showed a 6-point gap between the Conservatives' lead with men (46/31) compared to women (44/35). yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/12/17/how-britain-voted-2019-general-electionThere also was a 6-point gap in 2017 (45/39 with men and 43/43 with women). yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2017/06/13/how-britain-voted-2017-general-electionAnd back in 2015, Labour under Ed Milliband fared 3 points better among women (33/38) than men (29/37). This rises to a 6-point gap on a 'left-right' axis, if you add in the fact that UKIP fared 3 points better among men and women. That fact alone exlains why the Tories actually got more votes from women 9though their lead with women was 3 % lower). yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2015/06/08/general-election-2015-how-britain-really-votedAnd going even further back - I can't find any YouGov analysis of GE2010, but this from Ipsos mori shows the Conservatives with a 10% lead with men and a 5% lead with Women. www.ipsos.com/en-uk/how-britain-voted-2010The gender gap in 2005 was 6 points per Ipsos Morie (men 34/34, women 38/32), and you have not go back to 2001 for a UK election where the reverse applied ( men 42/32 Lab, Women 42/33) So the current pattern of women in the UK voting more for Loc parties has probably been around for 20 years . |
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Post by crossbat11 on Aug 19, 2023 21:18:45 GMT
Not sure what your point is? How long have Man City even had a women’s team compared to men’s? The point is that shevii was saying that Lewes give equal funding to both men's and women's teams which is a good example of communism. However both teams are in low divisions. Manchester City for example have loads of money and do very well which I think is a good example of capitalism. Obviously no club has had a women's team as long as they have had men's teams because women weren't even allowed to play for a long time. Villa's goes back 50 years though. In terms of having a competitive women's football team, Villa are relatively new kids on the block. The club didn't treat its women's side seriously at at all for most of its existence and clubs like Chelsea, Arsenal, even Birmingham City, were light years ahead of us for most of the last twenty years. We were playing second and third tier women's football until about three years ago. That said, enormous strides have been made since Carla Ward arrived as Manager and the club started to invest properly in the side. We are now very competitive in the WSL and probably the most improved team in the women's game. Rachel Daly will be playing at left back in the Lionesses team tomorrow against Spain. She's Villa's centre forward and the top scorer in the WSL last season!! |
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Post by mercian on Aug 19, 2023 21:26:14 GMT
crossbat11 Yes of course you're right about the relatively recent rise of AVWFC but having a history going back 50 years (albeit Solihull originally) is still impressive. It makes you wonder about the strength in depth of the English women's game if they're playing a centre forward at left back in a World Cup Final! If she was top scorer why isn't she playing centre forward?
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Post by crossbat11 on Aug 19, 2023 21:31:49 GMT
crossbat11 Yes of course you're right about the relatively recent rise of AVWFC but having a history going back 50 years (albeit Solihull originally) is still impressive. It makes you wonder about the strength in depth of the English women's game if they're playing a centre forward at left back in a World Cup Final! If she was top scorer why isn't she playing centre forward? Better ask Sarina Wiegmen. Seems to be working so far though. |
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