Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2023 16:01:03 GMT
My assumption was that they could go on and off the barge. Am I wrong in this? No "Are people able to come and go as they please? Those accommodated on the vessel will be non-detained. However, movement in and around the Port will need to adhere to the health and safety requirements of the Port itself. The Home Office will provide a bus service to take asylum seekers from the port to destinations agreed with local agencies. Those on the vessel are not detained, so there is no curfew. However, if an asylum seeker is late returning to the vessel, the team will make a call to ascertain their whereabouts. A register is kept so we know who is on and off the vessel." From Factsheet: Asylum accommodation on a vessel in Portland Port Updated 7 August 2023HMG |
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Aug 9, 2023 16:06:32 GMT
colin - "I wonder if the Tony Blair Institute will be the Wagner of Starmers administration. ?" Not sure where that came from, but are you aware that it's actually rather offensive? On your barge post, I've been a bit nonplussed about the fuss over the principle of the barge idea. Aside from the issue of the fire safety standards, which would be unforgivable if the fire service views are accurate, I can't see why it's such a bad idea. We have a lot of migrants who need somewhere safe and warm to stay, and if done properly, a floating accommodation seems like a reasonable option. In the 19th Century we had prison hulks. Is this so different? www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/education/resources/19th-century-prison-ships/life-board/Actually, the one difference is that unlike the prisoners who were required to work; asylum seekers are not allowed to work. The Government's alternative proposal to Rwanda, Ascension Island, isn't that different to transportation of criminals to Australia in the 19th Century. "asylum seekers are not allowed to work" - This is one of the key issues. Most of them would love nothing more than to do something useful or remunerative but if they are allowed to wander they have nothing to do and so potentially fulfil local people's prejudices about fecklessness by wandering around aimlessly during the day. Prison is not just about physical incarceration it's about cutting someone off from normal life and depriving them of agency to affect their own lives. |
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steve
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Post by steve on Aug 9, 2023 16:07:01 GMT
colin I never said it was wonderful, just a better standard than the prison barge, of course if you overcrowd and fail to maintain accommodation it will get worse. Ford consists of a range of accommodation single rooms( they're not really cells) pods which are sort of portacabins and dormitories with dividers. I've attached a picture below. I don't know if you've been inside many prisons but I've been in quite a few as a police officer and professional appropriate adult. Over the last 13 years the standard of maintenance of the entire prison estate has fallen, it's a disgrace and has led to severe depression amongst both staff and inmates sometimes leading to suicide. We lock people up as a punishment, we don't or shouldn't further punish them by treating them like shit when they're incarcerated. I haven't been in Ford since my ex colleague was in prison there around 20 years ago, like most things under the Tories no doubt it's got worse , it was significantly better than a prison barge at the time. 
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2023 16:12:04 GMT
colin I never said it was wonderful, just a better standard than the prison barge, Proof ? ps-"the barge" isn't a prison no matter how many times you say it. |
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steve
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Post by steve on Aug 9, 2023 16:19:37 GMT
Little story about Ford that my friend told me about his experience there, I don't know the veracity as he was in for fraud but I like to think it was true.
After he had been convicted he was sent to a " dispersal" prison pending move to a suitable permanent placement.
In his case it was Brixton, as a serving police officer at the time of his arrest when this got out to the inmates his life was exceptionally difficult , he was assaulted and abused regularly.
He was fortunately only there for about a month then sent to Ford.
On arrival He was sitting quietly in the canteen doing his best to be ignored when a hulking bloke looked at him and made his way over to him.
He towered over him and said " oy are you a copper? " He thought best to get the kicking out of the way when there were prison officers about so replied " yes".
It was a relief when the response was " what are you sitting here for then we've got our own table over there".
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2023 16:21:36 GMT
domjg “ mean-spirited inhabitants of, for example, England's eastern counties."” Blimey, that’s a bit broad-brush. Northumberland, Tyne and Wear and all the way down the coast.  |
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steve
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Post by steve on Aug 9, 2023 16:21:52 GMT
colin You just don't want to accept its a prison. I've seen the photos of the bibie stockholm, with no one on board and just furnished with 500 in such a small space and the inevitable deterioration it's going to be crap. How many prisons have you been in to compare it to?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2023 16:24:30 GMT
domjg “fulfil local people's prejudices about fecklessness by wandering around aimlessly” OY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
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Post by barbara on Aug 9, 2023 16:48:10 GMT
I'm very friendly with a lovely couple who were asylum seekers from Sri Lanka in 2000. They are Tamils and were fleeing persecution during the Civil War. His father and a brother had already been killed. They borrowed £1000 from their family and flew to Heathrow with their parents' blessing.
When they arrived they were dispersed to the North East and housed by the council. They were allowed to work and the man got a job at Nissan in Sunderland. His wife was pregnant and gave birth to a daughter. They were learning English and progressing well. Their first application for asylum was rejected (not sure why) and as a result he was no longer allowed to work and just had to sit at home waiting for his appeal. He had a nervous breakdown and ran in front of a car, fortunately it managed to stop. He was sent to a psychiatric hospital and his wife was left at home with a baby.
The appeal was successful and they were granted indefinite leave to stay and he could go back to work. Nissan were delighted as he is very intelligent and over qualified for the fill in job he was doing and quickly progressed.
20 years later, he still works at Nissan, his wife trained as a nursery nurse. They gained British citizenship about 10 years ago. They have bought a house and their daughter is in her 3rd year at university studying medical biosciences.
In all the years I have known them the husband has never and will not speak about what happened to them in Sri Lanka. He is still affected by the memory of it all.
Had they arrived here now they would likely have been separated and spent 2+ years in detention and in most likelihood the man would have committed suicide as there would be no mental health support for them. And they are nothing but an asset to the country and a credit to themselves.
The rhetoric and the using real people's tragedies to wind people up and look for votes to stay in power is shameful, shameful stuff.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2023 16:58:56 GMT
colin You just don't want to accept its a prison. I've seen the photos of the bibie stockholm, with no one on board and just furnished with 500 in such a small space and the inevitable deterioration it's going to be crap. How many prisons have you been in to compare it to? Any place you are forced to go back to every evening surely has at least the “feel” of a prison? However, I don’t really see what other method can be sensibly be used as it must be essential to ensure asylum seekers don’t simply leave any time they want to. A brilliant idea….clearly not yet thought of….could be to carry out assessments speedily.  |
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Post by barbara on Aug 9, 2023 17:08:03 GMT
colin You just don't want to accept its a prison. I've seen the photos of the bibie stockholm, with no one on board and just furnished with 500 in such a small space and the inevitable deterioration it's going to be crap. How many prisons have you been in to compare it to? Any place you are forced to go back to every evening surely has at least the “feel” of a prison? However, I don’t really see what other method can be sensibly be used as it must be essential to ensure asylum seekers don’t simply leave any time they want to. A brilliant idea….clearly not yet thought of….could be to carry out assessments speedily. It's no wonder that some of these people simply disappear. They may have family in the UK or may just survive on the street but faced with unremitting hostility and vilification and an unspecified but lengthy sojourn on a barge with the risk at the end of deportation to Rwanda or elsewhere I'm not surprised they want to take their chances out on their own. It's totally counterproductive. The ones most likely to abscond are going to be the economic migrants. The authorities won't know where they are. Surely better to give them some self respect, let them work, process them speedily and deport the ones who are economic migrants. |
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Aug 9, 2023 17:10:10 GMT
domjg “fulfil local people's prejudices about fecklessness by wandering around aimlessly” OY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I had no idea you and he were one and the same.. |
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Aug 9, 2023 17:10:47 GMT
domjg “ mean-spirited inhabitants of, for example, England's eastern counties."” Blimey, that’s a bit broad-brush. Northumberland, Tyne and Wear and all the way down the coast. I was thinking more Kent, Essex, Lincolnshire. The lands of Ukip and brexit. |
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Mr Poppy
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Teaching assistant and now your elected PM
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Post by Mr Poppy on Aug 9, 2023 17:14:01 GMT
At least 271,000 people are homeless in England todayengland.shelter.org.uk/media/press_release/at_least_271000_people_are_homeless_in_england_today#
Over 1 million households are waiting for social homesengland.shelter.org.uk/support_us/campaigns/social_housing_deficitI'm very happy to blame CON HMG for the shortage of social housing but FFS the Bibby Stockholm is not a prison, the people who will be housed there didn't have to come to UK (and many would have been in much worse accommodation in France, having paid a criminal gang £thousands to illegally enter UK). Anderson's words were excessive but we can't afford to house large numbers of our own people properly and some people who chose to come in are complaining (or having people complain on their behalf) about having to share a room or be housed in a 'flotel' rather than a 'hotel'. WTF!! I appreciate UKPR2 is not representative, hence why I post representative polling. I've also posted Scot.Gov's use of 'flotels' and LAB's comments that they would continue to use 'flotels'. If the minority of people who support Corbyn's view on use of 'flotels' think the level of accommodation provided is unacceptable then suggest an alternative - and how that accommodation would be built and funded. Also, how many people do those people think we should let in - given we can't house all of our own people in suitable accommodation and some people think 'flotels' are unacceptable? It's a grim choice and will hopefully only be temporary but for those of us in the Real World it is sadly a necessary choice until we get a grip on illegal immigration. As suggested before then if any MP wants to find what they consider 'suitable' accommodation in their constituency then put your fucking hand up and offer to take in 500+ asylum seekers to your constituency - LDEM MPs? SNP MPs? Put your hands up and explain to your constituents that their council tax will increase to fund the asylum seekers. I'm done with virtue signalling BS and that was IMO the 'emotion' that Anderson portrayed in his OTT comments. Enough!! PS I fully support LEGAL immigration using a points based immigration policy and taking in a reasonable number of genuine asylum seekers who do not 'jump the queue' by paying a criminal gang £thousands to illegally enter UK. Plenty of polling that shows most folks understand the difference between the various types of immigration - with just the extremists on both ends who seem unable to differentiate (ie 'let everyone in' types and 'let no one in' types).
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Post by shevii on Aug 9, 2023 17:20:17 GMT
Redfield & Wilton Strategies @redfieldwilton · 1h SNP leads Labour by 3% in Scotland. Scotland Westminster VI (5-6 August): SNP 37% (+2) Labour 34% (+2) Conservative 17% (-4) Liberal Democrat 7% (–) Green 2% (–) Reform 2% (–) Other 1% (–) Changes +/- 1-2 July redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/scottish-independence-referendum-westminster-voting-intention-5-6-august-2023Plenty of other polling on their twitter account- "No" slightly ahead- SNP slightly ahead in Holyrood, Lab 1 point up on list for Holyrood. General little change from the previous poll with mostly Lab & SNP equal gains off Tories within MOE. |
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
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Post by pjw1961 on Aug 9, 2023 17:25:47 GMT
Doing that would involve a long and boring post. Lets leave it for the moment and if the occasion arises again I'll post something. I must say you would have been an interesting person to have on all the various mandatory equality and diversity training we public sector types are obliged to do.  I worked in the NHS at the end of my so-called career, so I did have to endure all that cr*p. 🤣 As well as stuff like 'Manual Handling' when all I ever lifted was a computer mouse. Complete waste of time. There was one amusing anecdote came out of it, but I'm aware I'm already making too many posts. Things like manual handling training for office workers aren't really about teaching you anything but to protect the employer from being sued. If a trained worker picks a box up in the wrong way and injures themselves its their fault but if they haven't been trained then its the employer's (I simplify to make the point, of course. In reality it's more complex than that). |
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Mr Poppy
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Teaching assistant and now your elected PM
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Post by Mr Poppy on Aug 9, 2023 17:26:36 GMT
Redfield & Wilton Strategies @redfieldwilton · 1h SNP leads Labour by 3% in Scotland. Scotland Westminster VI (5-6 August): SNP 37% (+2)Labour 34% (+2)
Conservative 17% (-4)
Liberal Democrat 7% (–)Green 2% (–)Reform 2% (–)Other 1% (–) Changes +/- 1-2 July redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/scottish-independence-referendum-westminster-voting-intention-5-6-august-2023Plenty of other polling on their twitter account- "No" slightly ahead- SNP slightly ahead in Holyrood, Lab 1 point up on list for Holyrood. General little change from the previous poll with mostly Lab & SNP equal gains off Tories within MOE. LoC 39%, RoC 60% - even in the Utopian Scottish Socialist Republic!  Although could also say it's SNATS 39%, ABSNP 60% and given the minimal difference between the main Unionist parties on policy then I would expect even more tactical voting than usual in Scotland in GE'24 (eg even CON might well 'lend their vote' to LAB to ensure a Tory/RoC candidate wins against the SNP) |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2023 17:34:34 GMT
domjg “fulfil local people's prejudices about fecklessness by wandering around aimlessly” OY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I had no idea you and he were one and the same.. Never met the bloke - it’s just that he seemed very nice and quite sensitive so didn’t want him to see what you had written and feel hurt. |
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Aug 9, 2023 17:35:52 GMT
Redfield & Wilton Strategies @redfieldwilton · 1h SNP leads Labour by 3% in Scotland. Scotland Westminster VI (5-6 August): SNP 37% (+2) Labour 34% (+2) Conservative 17% (-4) Liberal Democrat 7% (–) Green 2% (–) Reform 2% (–) Other 1% (–) Changes +/- 1-2 July redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/scottish-independence-referendum-westminster-voting-intention-5-6-august-2023Plenty of other polling on their twitter account- "No" slightly ahead- SNP slightly ahead in Holyrood, Lab 1 point up on list for Holyrood. General little change from the previous poll with mostly Lab & SNP equal gains off Tories within MOE. The tories will be lucky to keep any seats in Scotland |
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steve
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Post by steve on Aug 9, 2023 17:37:02 GMT
barbaraIndeed There are plenty of inmates at Ford who go to work every day, most within the prison estate but others are day released to work. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. But We're treating convicted criminals with more respect than displayed to asylum seekers. The vast majority if able want to work, we need the workers but leeanderthal wants them to fuck off to France instead!
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Aug 9, 2023 17:44:52 GMT
barbaraIndeed There are plenty of inmates at Ford who go to work every day, most within the prison estate but others are day released to work. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. But We're treating convicted criminals with more respect than displayed to asylum seekers. The vast majority if able want to work, we need the workers but leeanderthal wants them to fuck off to France instead! But if they work, contribute to society and pay their way it is more difficult for the tory Government to scapegoat them for their own failures in office You need to have a bogeyman, an 'other' to blame |
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steve
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Post by steve on Aug 9, 2023 17:46:13 GMT
barbara "Had they arrived here now they would likely have been separated and spent 2+ years in detention" Had my own grandfather arrived here now as an undocumented " illegal "immigrant aged about 18 he would have almost certainly been denied leave to remain ( no cheering in the back Colin). But this was before the first world war , no passports required and everyone just accepted that this brown man with no family or documents really came from Dundee and it wasn't mentioned,at some point presumably his status was confirmed as he went on to fight in the British army in the first world war. They did send him back to fight in the Camel Corps which was a bit harsh I thought. 
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2023 17:49:46 GMT
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pjw1961
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Post by pjw1961 on Aug 9, 2023 17:53:16 GMT
We also had cholera, workhouses and children sent up chimneys. I think the Tories are still working on bringing those back  |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2023 18:06:59 GMT
This isnt getting enough press here. It is not going to help Europe's stuttering post pandemic recovery . www.theguardian.com/business/2023/aug/09/china-economy-deflation-interest-rates-impactwww.bbc.co.uk/news/business-66435870edition.cnn.com/2023/08/08/economy/china-trade-exports-decline-july-intl-hnk/index.htmlIts interesting to read that even in China, loose monetary and fiscal policies of the recent past have left a legacy which cramps policy options as the world emerges into a new economic reality :- "Investors and China watchers, however, were underwhelmed by the ruling Communist Party’s ambiguous promises to prop up poor consumer spending and revive the country’s debt-laden property market. The news that Chinese exports slumped to the lowest level in July since before the pandemic have now hastened calls for a growth-rescuing package akin to the mass fiscal stimulus that Beijing unleashed in the aftermath of the global financial crisis." "More worryingly, imports also fell sharply by 12.4 per cent in July after a 6.8 per cent dip in June, underscoring how the Chinese consumer is cutting back on spending this year." "But rather than a sizeable “bazooka” that would lift consumer spirits, jump-start investment and tackle record youth unemployment, China’s authorities seem determined to carry out a more targeted response that pinpoints particular areas of the economy for support, rather than a broad range of measures that mimics the half a trillion dollars the Communist Party injected into the economy in 2008." "Duncan Wrigley, chief China economist at consultancy Pantheon Macroeconomics, said that Beijing’s authorities wanted to avoid repeating the mistakes of the last decade, where vast spending created debt-fuelled property bubbles that are still haunting the Chinese economy today." “Policymakers are juggling the competing policy goals of boosting domestic demand and preventing financial risks,” Wrigley observed. “China will not revert to all-out credit and fiscal stimulus channelled through an indiscriminate array of investment projects as it did in response to the global financial crisis. China is seeking to support the economy without exacerbating debt risks, which resulted in part from investment in poor-quality projects.” "“Momentum has all but dissipated in China”, Joost van Leenders, investment strategist at Van Lanschot Kempen, said. “In July the purchasing manager index published by the national bureau of statistics dropped to its lowest level since December last year. These indicators point to the reopening rally being largely over.” "One of the biggest concerns is the state of the country’s debt-laden local authorities, who spent huge sums of money on wasteful building projects and were stung by collapsing land valuations during the pandemic. Reports suggest that Beijing is pressurising its municipalities to issue new debt to fund fresh infrastructure projects, and state-owned banks have been told to extend maturities on existing loans to stave off a debt crisis." From- China prefers precision to bazookas for economic rescue Times |
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oldnat
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Extremist - Undermining the UK state and its institutions
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Post by oldnat on Aug 9, 2023 18:08:56 GMT
Redfield & Wilton Strategies @redfieldwilton · 1h SNP leads Labour by 3% in Scotland. Scotland Westminster VI (5-6 August): SNP 37% (+2) Labour 34% (+2) Conservative 17% (-4) Liberal Democrat 7% (–) Green 2% (–) Reform 2% (–) Other 1% (–) Changes +/- 1-2 July redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/scottish-independence-referendum-westminster-voting-intention-5-6-august-2023Plenty of other polling on their twitter account- "No" slightly ahead- SNP slightly ahead in Holyrood, Lab 1 point up on list for Holyrood. General little change from the previous poll with mostly Lab & SNP equal gains off Tories within MOE. The tories will be lucky to keep any seats in Scotland
www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/blogs/ec_mrppoll_20230809.html
Whether they are accurate or not in individual seat predictions on current VI or not, they are probably reasonably correct that lots (22) of the seats will be marginal (<5% between winner and runner up), while around the same number (23) will be relatively safe (>10% winning margin).
Of the current Con seats, 3 are predicted to go SNP -
Moray by 5.9%
Aberdeenshire West and Kincardine by 5.2%
Dumfries and Galloway by 3.4%
while Con would cling on in 3 -
Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk by 2.4%
Banff and Buchan by 2.3%
Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale by 0.6%
(though with a Lab VI in these three of 19%, 17% and 22% respectively and SGP VI of 4% in each, one might reasonably expect sufficient extra votes to go SNP to defenestrate Con - again).
In the SNP/Lab contests, there are 7 of the 12 Lab gains predicted to be by less than 5% (Glasgow Central by only 0.1%), while 9 of the SNP retentions also have a predicted margin of <5%.
I wouldn't want to risk any cash on predicting the eventual seat numbers per party! |
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Post by graham on Aug 9, 2023 18:18:21 GMT
Redfield & Wilton Strategies @redfieldwilton · 1h SNP leads Labour by 3% in Scotland. Scotland Westminster VI (5-6 August): SNP 37% (+2) Labour 34% (+2) Conservative 17% (-4) Liberal Democrat 7% (–) Green 2% (–) Reform 2% (–) Other 1% (–) Changes +/- 1-2 July redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/scottish-independence-referendum-westminster-voting-intention-5-6-august-2023Plenty of other polling on their twitter account- "No" slightly ahead- SNP slightly ahead in Holyrood, Lab 1 point up on list for Holyrood. General little change from the previous poll with mostly Lab & SNP equal gains off Tories within MOE. The tories will be lucky to keep any seats in Scotland There is effectively no Tory to SNP swing based on these figures in that both parties are 8% lower than 2019. The Tories coild hope to hang on to rural seats v SNP. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2023 18:27:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2023 18:35:54 GMT
From the US Guardian:
“ J. Michael Luttig, a prominent retired judge and adviser to former vice president Mike Pence said that “there is no Republican party.”
In an interview with CNN on Wednesday, Luttig, who has issued harsh criticisms towards Donald Trump over his alleged involvement in the 2021 Capitol Hill riots and advised Pence to not overturn the 2020 election results, said:
“American democracy simply cannot function without two equally healthy and equally strong political parties. So today, in my view, there is no Republican party to counter the Democratic party in the country…And for that reason, American democracy is in grave peril.”
Luttig, who in June published an op-ed in the New York Times and criticized “Republican’s’ spineless support” towards Trump, went on to criticize the Republican party, saying:
“A political party is a collection and assemblage of individuals who share a set of beliefs and principles and policy views about the United States of America. Today, there is no such shared set of beliefs and values and principles or even policy views as within the Republican Party for America.”
Luttig was a the former judge on the 4th US circuit court of appeals and was a key witness in the January 6 hearings.
Last year, during his testimony, he said efforts to overturn the election results were “tantamount to a revolution.”
Like @stevei am optimistic that the more that people read and hear comments such as these the more likely it will be that the centre ground (whatever construes “centre” in America…) will turn away from Trump.
If his career doesn’t end in jail at least it may end in ignominy. Preferably both, the man is surely clinically insane
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Post by Rafwan on Aug 9, 2023 18:41:00 GMT
How do I place a photo on my avatar? Please write s l o w l y as I am a musician not an iPad genius. Gracias El EPC. First make sure the photo you want to use is in your iPad photo library (click on the 'Photos' icon on the opening page of your iPad to find out). If you don't know how to put it there, then you definitely are a lost cause. Open Ukpollingreport2, and, at the top of the page, left-hand side, under the main header "Ukpollingreport2", there is a horizontal menu bar of six items. The fifth one along from left is "Profile". Click on this and it will open you Profile page. On the right-hand side, near the top, there are three buttons: 'Edit Profile'; 'Send Message', and one with a funny cog-like diagram (which you can use to send me a nice gift - some flowers or a box of chocs will do nicely). Click on the first button "Edit Profile". This opens the "Edit Profile & Settings, defaulting to the 'Avatar' page, the first of the seven items along the top. In the middle of the page that opens, there are two clickable links: "Upload/Link" and "Delete". Click on "Upload/Link". In the middle of the box that now opens, click on "Select Image". This opens a drop-down menu of three items, the top one of which is "Photo Library". Click on this and then select the photo you want to use for your avatar. It should appear in the centre of the box for Avatar settings. If it says it is too big, or it is the wrong way round, you must find some way of correcting this in your photo library, or (preferably) use a different photo. Make sure the little round button marked "Use only the Uploaded/Linked" and your photo should show on left as well as centre. Click on "Save Avatar Changes". To complete the process, make sure you send me my gift. |
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