7-Feb-2022 : LAB: 42 / CON: 32 / LDEM: 9 / GRN: 6

[lululemonmustdobetter]

May 12, 2022 13:48:15 GMT laszlo4new said:

lululemonmustdobetter

There are more than these, but still helpful.

digitalarchive.wilsoncenter.org/collection/134/korean-war-origins-1945-1950/2

Yes their site is really useful - it started up really early in internet terms. I remember visiting it when I was doing my PhD circa 2000 as you could access primary sources. 

edit:
This is the part of the site I used a lot:

www.wilsoncenter.org/program/cold-war-international-history-project

[c-a-r-f-r-e-w]

May 10, 2022 4:09:08 GMT moby said:

May 9, 2022 19:15:11 GMT c-a-r-f-r-e-w said:

Well I did say he was a bit edgy these days! (Here’s a recent instalment in the saga… 

youtu.be/J4XuAlpfcng)

Nonetheless, I found his latest album as recommended by Old Southendian an interesting listen, not least because it was produced by Radiohead’s producer and it was interesting to hear what he did with it. 

My problems with Waters go back to 1985. I've been a Pink Floyd fanatic since the Barrett days but I hated the direction Waters was taking the band in, (The Wall, Final Cut) and the fact he sacked Richard Wright from the band. The other members didn't accept his lead and found him increasingly oppresive; he then left and assumed  Pink Floyd was over. After a legal dispute Gilmour, Wright and Mason carried on and Waters has never accepted that and has , " commented" frequently ever since. He wrote some great lyrics but the musical talent was Gilmour and Wright imo. This is disputed of course and the vendetta has continued ever since!

I think the problems might go back to 1977 and the recording of Animals, that’s when Wright said it started with the ”ego thing”.

It is as you say, a matter of some dispute, with Team Waters saying the others didn’t pull their weight, and Team Gilmour saying that Waters at times frustrated the others ability to contribute.

Further to your point, according to Mason, Waters didn’t seem to properly appreciate the musical capabilities of the others.

“It’s a really odd thing in my opinion,” Mason told Rolling Stone. “But I think the problem is Roger doesn’t really respect David. He feels that writing is everything, and that guitar playing and the singing are something that, I won’t say anyone can do, but that everything should be judged on the writing rather than the playing.”

[c-a-r-f-r-e-w]

May 11, 2022 12:00:34 GMT leftieliberal said:

May 11, 2022 11:39:58 GMT patrickbrian said:

Robbiealive

"a lack of revolution, the one undisputed aspect of British exceptionalism,"

I don't get this. What about Cromwell? They chopped off the king's head! Or was that too long ago to count?

I recommend robbiealive reading Ian Dunt's "How to be a Liberal" which covers the English Civil War in Chapter 2. Liberalism gets its English roots from the Levellers. Until I read this, I also had no idea how important Harriet Taylor was in co-creating John Stuart Mill's published works.

I already bought it, on a buy one get one half-price from Waterstones! When in Rome and all that. (I can’t claim to have gotten very far with it yet, as may be a trifle evident…)

[c-a-r-f-r-e-w]

May 11, 2022 7:55:17 GMT domjg said:

May 11, 2022 7:33:02 GMT alec said:

"Nowhere else does one see such deference at work" - Certainly no where else in Europe.

[c-a-r-f-r-e-w]

May 11, 2022 13:33:45 GMT colin said:

May 11, 2022 13:12:30 GMT lululemonmustdobetter said:

 But historically the Tory party has proven itself more adaptable to change than its rivals - but that is not a guarantor that they will necessarily do so this time round.

As far as the war is concerned, it does seem to be panning out as I feared into a potentially long and drawn out conflict, the eventual outcome and implications of which increasingly become difficult to predict.

Yes -and Yes. 

Uncertain times indeed. I feel for my grandchildren. They have no idea what "normal" mortgage repayments look like. Actually I think my children may have forgotten. !

Yes it’ll get more difficult as the shrinking of the middle class continues. Property ownership percentage declining now?

and welcome back Colin! 

[domjg]

May 12, 2022 15:31:08 GMT c-a-r-f-r-e-w said:

May 11, 2022 7:55:17 GMT domjg said:

"Nowhere else does one see such deference at work" - Certainly no where else in Europe.

lame

[alec]

pete - that Bloomberg story "Boris Johnson’s Flagship Plan to Fix Britain Is in Trouble" - seems to be a bit pro Conservative to me.

They actually think he had a plan.

[c-a-r-f-r-e-w]

domjg

You impressed with the German response to Putin then? 

for lameness, check your attempts to justify the Lib Dem coalition screw up, or your claims about deference.

[c-a-r-f-r-e-w]

May 11, 2022 13:36:36 GMT Mark said:

domjg said:

When I was a young kid in the 80s and at Uni in the 90s being called 'posh' was a grave insult and sounding 'posh' was something no-one aspired to hence the mockney and other exaggerated regional accents of 90s Britpop bands. We believed (naively or not) in the idea of the classless society.

The 'classless society' wasn't something that came from a LOC or socialist place, but, was coined by tory prime minister, John Major.

When I googled it, I came across a reference to this:

“Margaret Hilda Thatcher, speech notes on the classless society (prepared for her speech to the Parliamentary Press Gallery), ca. 26 January 1977, 1977”

archivesearch.lib.cam.ac.uk/repositories/9/archival_objects/489334

So yes, the classless society might be more of a Tory angle. New Labour of course more overtly for the middle class.

In a Michael White article in the Guardian in 1999…

“Tony Blair yesterday appealed to Labour's traditional supporters to join forces with the party's recent converts and achieve a radical shift of power in Britain - away from "the old establishment" towards a new middle class and meritocratic majority.

"Slowly but surely the old establishment is being replaced by a new, larger, more meritocratic middle class," Mr Blair said.

…

“But he was clearly aware that many Labour activists and MPs regard such talk as a betrayal of the party's traditions and heartland supporters in will-o'-the wisp pursuit of a centrist coalition with the Liberal Democrats.”


Miliband was also keen on the middle class with his concerns about the “squeezed middle”. In the Guardian in 2014:

“Ed Miliband has made a direct appeal to middle class voters by saying that Labour is best placed to help middle income families who feel a "gnawing anxiety" about their future.

“In a sign of his determination to broaden the appeal of his cost-of-living message, the Labour leader says his party's plans for education and house building are designed to "rebuild our middle class".”

[Deleted]

The old hits are best.

[c-a-r-f-r-e-w]

May 4, 2022 15:05:36 GMT crossbat11 said:

lululemon

I think you tread an honourable and intellectually coherent line on the rather polarised Corbyn v Blairite debate that often mutates like a gargoyle from any discussion about where the natural centre of political gravity should be in the broad church of Labour politics. More crucially still perhaps, what stance leads to electoral success and a chance for the party to govern. That debate shouldn't be forever framed in personalised arguments about yesterday's men and where old bodies in the party may be buried. Lessons have to be learned obviously, but it's a dead end to resurrect ancient feuds.

On Milliband's treatment by the media, by the way, don't forget how his father was traduced by Dacre's Mail in their infamous "The Man who Hated Britain" front page headline and inside four page story. Corbyn was the recipient of similar treatment too, but Milliband was not exempted.

Determining the centre of political gravity as you put it, is indeed tricky, partly because there are a few dimensions to it. There is where the MPs are, where the membership is, where the electorate is, where the media are, there’s the polity thing and so forth. (People often just pick one of the dimensions, or might not be considering the same dimension…)

And yes, Miliband and his dad copped unfair media flak. The thing with Corbyn however is that the Guardian and Independent, being more liberal organs also went for him in a major way. As I pointed out at the time in the run up to the 2019 election you might see around four anti-Corbyn headlines in each on a single day.

[c-a-r-f-r-e-w]

May 9, 2022 11:39:20 GMT robbiealive said:

May 9, 2022 11:20:57 GMT bardin1 said:

Except the BBC of course

Posters on here, especially, but not exclusively, the SNP ones, are obsessive critics of the BBC. Davwel's comments alone would fil a pamphlet. I think the critics should adopt Popper's position & look for evidence that doesn't confirm their position. Otherwise they just find what they seek.

An important point Robbie, and a merit of this board in fact, in having one’s ideas tested in that regard. Although it tends to work better for those in a minority position, since there are more from a different position to check your ideas.

On the other hand, it doesn’t work so well for those whose views align with the majority on here, as they make a lot more points collectively, and relatively few people available to check it all. This is why it’s good to have a range of viewpoints.

Because while people might avidly check the views and underlying facts of rival perspectives, they might not tend to check the views of their own side very much. For example, it’s been said on here before now, that Leavers are a bit like members of a cult, swallowing the koolaid uncritically. This can quite often happen, but then Remainers also tend to take each other’s remain posts and claims at face value without much checking.

(I inadvertently stumbled across an activist meeting in one of my haunts in the run up to the election, not realising at first they had taken it over for a couple of hours. It was a strange feeling, felt like being in a church amongst the faithful).

This is also why it doesn’t necessarily matter if people come to agreement in discussion. They may still be getting their position checked out regardless, and their positions get more nuanced.

[birdseye]

May 12, 2022 13:11:40 GMT lululemonmustdobetter said:

A sobering tale and insight into how our press works:

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/may/12/hate-mail-death-threats-culture-war-matthew-katzman-cancelling-queen

I always thought that "Drop the Dead Donkey" was, like "Yes Minister" a mild exagerration of reality rather than fantasy.Even in serious media like the Financial Times, the reporting has been very superficial in situations where I have been inside the true story. I very much doubt that the Grauniad is any different as their use of "the right" as a hate object in their piece above shows.

Its sense to remember that in order to sell newspapers, you have to use the readers emotions by pandering to their prejudices. Much the same sales process as for cars and double glazing. Dont lie, just carefully select which facts you use.

[neilj]

Not a good look, but then again is anyone surprised when the Government is run by a liar who breaks the law

[EmCat]

May 12, 2022 8:16:26 GMT domjg said:

An interesting tale for anyone who believes that 'cancel culture' is more than just a trope invented by the populist right: www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/may/12/hate-mail-death-threats-culture-war-matthew-katzman-cancelling-queen

As they accuse others, so they themselves do.

I understand that there is a Facebook group "Every accusation is a confession", that documents (in the US) the similar moves from the extremists 

[neilj]

No surprises here either

[alec]

I think deference is the wrong word, and class based analyses miss the point.

I would suggest that everyone should conduct their own thought experiment, and imagine a world where the Labour Party was shown by a published article in the US press, to have accepted a £600,000 donation from a Russian oligarch and UK citizen, that was directly traced by Barclays Bank to a Russian source (the donors pro Putin father) and which was so concerning that the bank themselves reported the transaction to the National Crime Agency.

Once you have imagined that, then imagine how the media would approach the story. Would it be a minor footnote, would the BBC not include this in their main headlines, would it not be the front page headline splash?

I don't know what you call this, but there is a dual standard within the UK body politic that treats our two main parties of government very differently. Others may disagree, but I'd be interested to hear their arguments.

[domjg]

May 12, 2022 16:05:17 GMT c-a-r-f-r-e-w said:

domjg

You impressed with the German response to Putin then? 

for lameness, check your attempts to justify the Lib Dem coalition screw up, or your claims about deference.

Bog off. Almost every post you write is an interminable rehash of the same 'wouldn't it be nice if it we had full employment and the little woman could stay at home' argument. I won't be responding to anything further.

[c-a-r-f-r-e-w]

May 11, 2022 9:01:46 GMT domjg said:

May 11, 2022 8:32:29 GMT colin said:

  

I'm willing to bet those now in 'middle class' professional roles who still 'identify' as 'working class' nonetheless have far more 'middle class liberal' cultural attitudes than those who still are 'working class' especially if they've been to University which seems to be one of the biggest factors in determining if someone acquires liberal values. 
.

Indeed Piketty argues that Education is becoming a key dividing line politically. 

“Brahmin Left Versus Merchant Right: Changing Political Cleavages in 21 Western Democracies, 1948–2020*”

academic.oup.com/qje/article/137/1/1/6383014

“Abstract
This article sheds new light on the long-run evolution of political cleavages in 21 Western democracies. We exploit a new database on the socioeconomic determinants of the vote, covering more than 300 elections held between 1948 and 2020. In the 1950s and 1960s, the vote for social democratic, socialist, and affiliated parties was associated with lower-educated and low-income voters. It has gradually become associated with higher-educated voters, giving rise in the 2010s to a disconnection between the effects of income and education on the vote: higher-educated voters now vote for the “left,” while high-income voters continue to vote for the “right.” This transition has been accelerated by the rise of green and anti-immigration movements, whose distinctive feature is to concentrate the votes of the higher-educated and lower-educated electorates. Combining our database with historical data on political parties’ programs, we provide evidence that the reversal of the education cleavage is strongly linked to the emergence of a new “sociocultural” axis of political conflict.”

[c-a-r-f-r-e-w]

May 10, 2022 10:20:02 GMT domjg said:

Did these same people really feel back in the nineties that Blair was the same as them? They knew he was highly liberal and would be very relaxed about immigration.”

Well, you don’t tend to provide much evidence for your claims, but that doesn’t mean you’re necessarily wrong, and it’s of interest to know how much was telegraphed, so as a reference point I skimmed through the 1997, 2001 and 2005 manifestos to see how much indication there was of the liberal, or indeed on immigration.

A search for Liberal doesn’t yield much. There are a variety of policies (e.g. workfare) that might be considered as having liberal origins including some from the States, but New Labour tended instead to talk in terms of the Third Way rather than the Liberal, itself something that followed Clinton in the US of course.

Regarding immigration, I checked for that too, and it only gets a brief mention in 1997 (essentially to say it should be processed quickly and fairly), and not much at all in 2001. 2005 does say a bit more, but after acknowledging benefits of immigration it is talks about controlling it with a points system and ID cards!

[lululemonmustdobetter]

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/may/12/barbie-dolls-diversity-ken-hearing-aid-vitiligo

Its just woke political correctness gone mad!!!

[c-a-r-f-r-e-w]

May 12, 2022 17:27:36 GMT domjg said:

May 12, 2022 16:05:17 GMT c-a-r-f-r-e-w said:

domjg

You impressed with the German response to Putin then? 

for lameness, check your attempts to justify the Lib Dem coalition screw up, or your claims about deference.

Bog off. Almost every post you write is an interminable rehash of the same 'wouldn't it be nice if it we had full employment and the little woman could stay at home' argument. I won't be responding to anything further.

More stuff you just made up. 

[c-a-r-f-r-e-w]

May 10, 2022 13:24:18 GMT robbiealive said:

May 10, 2022 12:05:47 GMT Mark said:

What explains this deference. Who knows. Poor educational standards indoctrinated with the legend of WW2, imperial fantasies, a strong and false notion of English exceptionalism, the reassuing continuity & seeming impregnability of nonsensical constitutional arrangements like the Monarchy. And the English working class have a long. long history, even when less deferential, of manipulable intolerance to immigrants, Jews, an intense dislike of Catholics: no one gave a toss about the EU until Farage linked it to immigration.

Interesting to see those middle class views of the working classes cropping up: they’re tribal, they’re prejudiced, less educated, and now… they’re deferent!

If you want an example of deference, check out the middle classes in private schools. Jesus effing Christ, It’s quite a shock, to someone like me who started out at a school on a council estate. Lots and lots of rules, many of them quite pissy, and they did what they were told almost all the time, and deferred to the teachers and older boys with quite some fervour.

And quite hierarchical. You couldn’t have a radio until fifth form. No cassettes till sixth form. Not even with headphones. No hifi till the upper sixth! 

I know this may come as a bit of a surprise, knowing me as you do, but I was not quite as deferent as the others. Even at prep school, where everyone’s behaviour was graded on a scale between zero and plus three, (many things were graded, in an effort to ensure more deference), I got minus seven.

Obviously there were more notable examples of middle class deference, such as fagging, though they did at least get rid of that at the public school I went to. (There were a few who were a bit more rebellious, and who ran off to join the foreign legion, where even greater deference may have been required).

[c-a-r-f-r-e-w]

robbiealive

But anyway, it isn’t necessarily the case that the working classes are deferring to the ruling class so much as perhaps allowing a loose alliance, (something along the lines of which Oldnat has indicated has occurred before), whereby they support the ruling class in return for them rolling back some of the middle class advantage. Such as leaving the EU etc.

(This might in turn involve turning a blind eye to some ruling class excesses and self-serving actions).

[pjw1961]

May 12, 2022 12:34:23 GMT lululemonmustdobetter said:

Hi colin

I'm afraid that I detect signs that the answers -respectively-are No & Yes

Sadly and reluctantly I find myself coming to the same conclusion. I'm not sure if our current group of leaders in the West are up to the job - or that our populations have the resilience, inclination, capacity and will to do what's necessary.

I think that's why I am a bit more optimistic than Colin and yourself, if less so than Alec. I don't detect any inclination among most Western powers to let Putin emerge with anything approximating a win ('most' because obviously the likes of Orban were never fully onside to begin with). Likewise western populations are strongly supportive of arming Ukraine, as measured by polling. 

A key difference from Korea or Afghanistan is it is not our men and women who are doing the dying, we are simply arming Ukraine, which is relatively painless. And for the Ukrainians it is their homeland they are fighting for, not a war in some far away country of which they know little, so they will naturally accept a higher rate of casualties as any nation in that situation would, albeit the pain is still real.  

It is true that there is and will be an economic impact on the West, but I don't detect a significant view emerging that we should stop arming Ukraine as a way of mitigating this, it seems more like the public will direct their anger at their domestic governments and/or the businesses profiting by it. 

It would be foolish to try to be definitive, but I would expect the war to last at least two years and for the west to continue to supply Ukraine throughout. It may well end after an attempted major Ukrainian offensive - if that fails then the peace will include Russia annexing a chunk of Ukrainian territory, if it succeeds then Russia ends up back where it was before 24 February and Putin likely gets removed from power by his security apparatus. 

[mercian]

May 12, 2022 16:53:44 GMT alec said:

I think deference is the wrong word, and class based analyses miss the point.

I would suggest that everyone should conduct their own thought experiment, and imagine a world where the Labour Party was shown by a published article in the US press, to have accepted a £600,000 donation from a Russian oligarch and UK citizen, that was directly traced by Barclays Bank to a Russian source (the donors pro Putin father) and which was so concerning that the bank themselves reported the transaction to the National Crime Agency.

Once you have imagined that, then imagine how the media would approach the story. Would it be a minor footnote, would the BBC not include this in their main headlines, would it not be the front page headline splash?

I don't know what you call this, but there is a dual standard within the UK body politic that treats our two main parties of government very differently. Others may disagree, but I'd be interested to hear their arguments.

As so often (and it's not just you) you set up a non-existent situation to confirm your prejudices. e.g. "If this happened, the BBC and press (and/or some other hate figure) would do so-and-so wouldn't they. the b*stards!"

I think it's more constructive to debate things which actually happen.

[c-a-r-f-r-e-w]

May 10, 2022 16:20:16 GMT lululemonmustdobetter said:

May 10, 2022 14:51:11 GMT hireton said:

lululemonmustdobetter

". had helped decrease wc salaries."

Could you define "working class" and point to your evidence that such salaries have decreased?

"...and hadn't reversed economic decline"

What decline and where?

Hi hireton

Why? I was writing from 'their' perspective, I didn't say I necessarily agreed with that view of the EU/immigration or Labour's record (a lot of the good that was done in the Blair/Brown years was reversed under the Tories and austerity). Its called trying to put yourself in someone else's shoes - perception is often more important than reality when it comes to VI. 

Anyway, I've got a far more important task to perform which is making my family dinner - chicken fajita's if your interested. Bye!

It is a tricky problem, but first thing to say is that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Just because there is no proof something is happening, doesn’t always mean it isn’t happening.

As an example, there’s not much proof about people getting others to do their work for them in academia. And it’s unlikely we will get a study, given it’s not greatly in the interests of the institutions, the students or the government. Nor are they likely to start having drones hovering over friends and family to check they are not helping with the essay. But the opportunity is there and there’s a pressure to do so, so it is likely to happen. Same with grade inflation which Covid has brought into sharp relief.

if one were to say one had seen people who got through an entire degree by getting others to do their essays for them, you might dismiss it as anecdote, but the point is it wasn’t that hard to do, and there is a pressure to do it.

With immigration, there are studies on pay impacts of course, but whether they really show there’s no effect is something else. One study that got linked to on here last year, showed no impact, but when you check, it’s for recent immigrants. Well, maybe there isn’t much, for recent immigrants. For example, maybe initially they come over to work in a shortage area but then later shift to something else where it has more impact.

People may reasonably point to how at the low end of the income scale, people are protected by the minimum wage, but this might indicate that there is a need for such protection, and how many studies take into account people working off the books as it were, and not getting minimum wage?

It may also be the case that if you consider an average, then maybe it’s ok. Quite a few of the middle class might indeed see their income go up as a result of immigration, as there may be more demand for their services, legal stuff etc., but it might not be so good for the plumber who just saw himself lose a load of jobs to extra competition.

Even in the case that people do not actually suffer a drop in income, this doesn’t mean there isn’t a negative effect. When I started out in FE, I wanted to teach new stuff. This in turn meant generating my own teaching hours. In turn this meant I didn’t have much competition. Unfortunately, sometimes a boss might not like the idea of being dependent and sometimes might quite like to try and generate competition for you, or maybe they want to bring some mates in and unable to generate hours themselves, use some of your hours for that.

So you generate some new hours that are harder to mess with and you’re over the income loss. But it’s still extra work and hassle. Maybe some people who lost work to immigration, did indeed manage to fill the income gap in the end. They may be quite desperate to pay the bills and feed the empty mouths. But maybe it cost extra time and effort, maybe they had to do stuff they’d rather not, maybe it meant more stress, more insecurity, maybe they had to ditch a better career path for a lesser one, maybe it meant being away from home more etc.

In the end, those who have experienced the consequences or seen others do so, may not need an academic study. It may well be that more of the middle classes experience more of it themselves now, as globalism increasingly affects them too. 

[steamdrivenandy]

May 12, 2022 18:14:21 GMT mercian said:

May 12, 2022 16:53:44 GMT alec said:

I think deference is the wrong word, and class based analyses miss the point.

I would suggest that everyone should conduct their own thought experiment, and imagine a world where the Labour Party was shown by a published article in the US press, to have accepted a £600,000 donation from a Russian oligarch and UK citizen, that was directly traced by Barclays Bank to a Russian source (the donors pro Putin father) and which was so concerning that the bank themselves reported the transaction to the National Crime Agency.

Once you have imagined that, then imagine how the media would approach the story. Would it be a minor footnote, would the BBC not include this in their main headlines, would it not be the front page headline splash?

I don't know what you call this, but there is a dual standard within the UK body politic that treats our two main parties of government very differently. Others may disagree, but I'd be interested to hear their arguments.

As so often (and it's not just you) you set up a non-existent situation to confirm your prejudices. e.g. "If this happened, the BBC and press (and/or some other hate figure) would do so-and-so wouldn't they. the b*stards!"

I think it's more constructive to debate things which actually happen.

Come, come Mercers old chap you've surely got more imagination than that, or does the imagined situation touch a nerve?

[c-a-r-f-r-e-w]

It may well be the case there is bias in the media which influences outcomes, but that doesn’t mean class isn’t also a significant factor in our politics.

Regarding class, here is an article on difficulties facing the middle class in America. Interesting to look at what can be more international trends. 

www.brookings.edu/blog/social-mobility-memos/2018/06/05/seven-reasons-to-worry-about-the-american-middle-class/

a few highlights…

Middle class incomes are stagnant, employment and wages declining, middle class childrens’ prospects are declining, destinies diverging esp. by race, where you are located matters more than ever, and middle class families are more fragile and more dependent on two incomes. 

What particularly stuck out for me was this reference:

“The top 20 percent – a group Richard Reeves refers to as “Dream Hoarders” – saw their incomes grow by 95 percent over the same period.”

[c-a-r-f-r-e-w]

Here is more on the Dream Hoarders

www.brookings.edu/book/dream-hoarders/

“It’s now conventional wisdom to focus on the excesses of the top 1% — especially the top 0.01% — and how the ultra-rich are hoarding income and wealth while incomes for most other Americans are stagnant. But the more important, and widening, gap in American society is between the upper middle class and everyone else.

Reeves defines the upper middle class as those whose incomes are in the top 20 percent of American society. Income isn’t the only way to measure a society, but in a market economy it is crucial because access to money generally determines who gets the best quality education, housing, health care, and other necessary goods and services.

As Reeves shows, the growing separation between the upper middle class and everyone else can be seen in family structure, neighborhoods, attitudes, and lifestyle. Those at the top of the income ladder are becoming more effective at passing on their status to their children, reducing overall social mobility. The result is a fracturing of American society along class lines, not just an economic divide. Upper-middle-class children become upper-middle-class adults.

These trends matter because the separation and perpetuation of the upper middle class corrode prospects for more progressive approaches to policy. Various forms of “opportunity hoarding” among the upper middle class make it harder for others to rise up to the top rung. Examples include zoning laws and schooling, occupational licensing, college application procedures, and the allocation of internships. Upper middle class opportunity hoarding, Reeves argues, results in a less competitive economy as well as a less open society.”

This chimes with ether stuff posted in the past from Turchin, about the way things are going towards an overpopulated elite, and the decline of the middle class, and consequent instability.

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/17/were-on-the-verge-of-breakdown-a-data-scientists-take-on-trump-and-biden