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Post by thylacine on May 8, 2022 18:23:48 GMT
I'm following you all avidly but as I'm in a cruise this week with intermittent and unreliable Internet I can't offer my inestimable words of wisdom. Suffice to say 'beergate' is win win for Labour and lose lose for the Tories. Either Starmer is exonerated or he isn't and resigns thus putting further pressure on Johnson to do likewise. I suspect that Richard Holden is not the most popular Tory MP at present as his pushing has created this situation where the Tories can't win. Lovely! Queen sacrifice. Interesting... |
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Post by somerjohn on May 8, 2022 18:55:36 GMT
Well, as no-one else has posted the final result in Croydon, the last council election to be announced, here it is from the horse's (or at least returning officer's) mouth:
7:20pm: This concludes our coverage of the local elections in Croydon. All election results are now in and the returning officer has confirmed the overall position for Croydon Council:
34 Labour
32 Conservatives
2 Green
1 Liberal Democrat
1 Vacancy
Thank you to all the staff and candidates!
Changes are: Lab -7, Con +4, Green +2, LD +1
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Post by crossbat11 on May 8, 2022 18:56:17 GMT
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Post by shevii on May 8, 2022 18:59:20 GMT
Recount in Fairfield(croydon) too. Suggestion that the greens have won. 2 out of 3 Green in Fairfield and Labour has lost the council. Incredibly messy now with Lab 34, Con 33, Green 2, LD 1. Normally it wouldn't be that messy but given the reputation of the last council and many of the faces still there who were involved in the council going "bankrupt" it's going to be pretty hard for Green & LD to support either main party. Also the Tory mayor stood and won so immediately there is a by election. I'm not entirely sure the extent of the (Tory) mayor's powers but apparently there is a 2/3rd rule on councillors in order to block a mayor proposal. There's a VERY funny write up on Croydon here about how the count went horribly wrong and the personalities connected with council and opposition. I was sure something would be libelous (and may well be) but checking the worst accusation about a Tory councillor being a "former IRA gun runner" turns out it is true (albeit remorse and turning evidence). I think this may be a left wing site but it may just be plague on all your houses site: insidecroydon.com/2022/05/08/from-bankrupt-to-laughing-stock-as-council-count-continues/And this means London ends up with net zero gains for Labour- not so Met Lib Elite now are we? (smiley) |
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domjg
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Post by domjg on May 8, 2022 19:26:39 GMT
Germany’s second state parliament election of the year took place today in the far northern state of Schleswig Holstein. A very different story to that of Saarland earlier in the year where the newly governing SPD romped it.
Today the popular CDU incumbent increased his share of the vote from 32 to 43% from 2017 and the SPD plummeted from 27 to 16% with the Greens doing a lot better than previously and jumping into second place.
The polls had shown the CDU on course to do well but this result exceeded their expectations. How much this is due to the sense of disarray around the SPD as a governing party I don’t know but of late the Ukraine war has been causing the SPD to shoot itself repeatedly in the foot with a sense of borderline chaos as senior politicians both among the parties in the traffic light coalition and within the SPD take pot shots at each other while the chancellor tries to say as little as possible precisely when leadership is required while Friedrich Merz, leader of the CDU, travels to Kyiv and does a good impression of speaking for Germany. Ditto the president of the Bundestag.
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domjg
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Post by domjg on May 8, 2022 19:31:11 GMT
Recount in Fairfield(croydon) too. Suggestion that the greens have won. 2 out of 3 Green in Fairfield and Labour has lost the council. Incredibly messy now with Lab 34, Con 33, Green 2, LD 1. Normally it wouldn't be that messy but given the reputation of the last council and many of the faces still there who were involved in the council going "bankrupt" it's going to be pretty hard for Green & LD to support either main party. Also the Tory mayor stood and won so immediately there is a by election. I'm not entirely sure the extent of the (Tory) mayor's powers but apparently there is a 2/3rd rule on councillors in order to block a mayor proposal. There's a VERY funny write up on Croydon here about how the count went horribly wrong and the personalities connected with council and opposition. I was sure something would be libelous (and may well be) but checking the worst accusation about a Tory councillor being a "former IRA gun runner" turns out it is true (albeit remorse and turning evidence). I think this may be a left wing site but it may just be plague on all your houses site: insidecroydon.com/2022/05/08/from-bankrupt-to-laughing-stock-as-council-count-continues/And this means London ends up with net zero gains for Labour- not so Met Lib Elite now are we? (smiley) You do sound quite pleased about this which I find a bit dismaying. I thought Corbyn was the worst possible Labour leader but I took genuine joy in any Labour victory when he was leader as I know/knew there is only one enemy, the Tories. |
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Post by RAF on May 8, 2022 19:35:27 GMT
Recount in Fairfield(croydon) too. Suggestion that the greens have won. 2 out of 3 Green in Fairfield and Labour has lost the council. Incredibly messy now with Lab 34, Con 33, Green 2, LD 1. Normally it wouldn't be that messy but given the reputation of the last council and many of the faces still there who were involved in the council going "bankrupt" it's going to be pretty hard for Green & LD to support either main party. Also the Tory mayor stood and won so immediately there is a by election. I'm not entirely sure the extent of the (Tory) mayor's powers but apparently there is a 2/3rd rule on councillors in order to block a mayor proposal. There's a VERY funny write up on Croydon here about how the count went horribly wrong and the personalities connected with council and opposition. I was sure something would be libelous (and may well be) but checking the worst accusation about a Tory councillor being a "former IRA gun runner" turns out it is true (albeit remorse and turning evidence). I think this may be a left wing site but it may just be plague on all your houses site: insidecroydon.com/2022/05/08/from-bankrupt-to-laughing-stock-as-council-count-continues/And this means London ends up with net zero gains for Labour- not so Met Lib Elite now are we? (smiley) I'm waiting for someone to make a film of the last Council and the cirumstances of the count. Certainly box office stuff but not in a good way. Lab lost control of 3 London Councils (Harrow, Tower Hamlets and Croydon), but the last two were due to extraordinary local circumstances. The Lutfur Rahman/Aspire comeback in Tower Hamlets would also make a fantastic film. Harrow could be explained on the basis of the large Hindu vote there - which has moved significantly from Lab to Tory in recent years; although I haven't seen the vote breakdown to see if this was a deciding factor. |
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Post by catmanjeff on May 8, 2022 19:51:35 GMT
2 out of 3 Green in Fairfield and Labour has lost the council. Incredibly messy now with Lab 34, Con 33, Green 2, LD 1. Normally it wouldn't be that messy but given the reputation of the last council and many of the faces still there who were involved in the council going "bankrupt" it's going to be pretty hard for Green & LD to support either main party. Also the Tory mayor stood and won so immediately there is a by election. I'm not entirely sure the extent of the (Tory) mayor's powers but apparently there is a 2/3rd rule on councillors in order to block a mayor proposal. There's a VERY funny write up on Croydon here about how the count went horribly wrong and the personalities connected with council and opposition. I was sure something would be libelous (and may well be) but checking the worst accusation about a Tory councillor being a "former IRA gun runner" turns out it is true (albeit remorse and turning evidence). I think this may be a left wing site but it may just be plague on all your houses site: insidecroydon.com/2022/05/08/from-bankrupt-to-laughing-stock-as-council-count-continues/And this means London ends up with net zero gains for Labour- not so Met Lib Elite now are we? (smiley) You do sound quite pleased about this which I find a bit dismaying. I thought Corbyn was the worst possible Labour leader but I took genuine joy in any Labour victory when he was leader as I know/knew there is only one enemy, the Tories. Don't be dismayed if someone has a different political view, it is allowed you know. |
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Post by crossbat11 on May 8, 2022 20:04:29 GMT
You do sound quite pleased about this which I find a bit dismaying. I thought Corbyn was the worst possible Labour leader but I took genuine joy in any Labour victory when he was leader as I know/knew there is only one enemy, the Tories. Don't be dismayed if someone has a different political view, it is allowed you know. Since when has schadenfreude been a political view? (Smiley thing) |
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Post by johntel on May 8, 2022 20:05:46 GMT
Harrow could be explained on the basis of the large Hindu vote there - which has moved significantly from Lab to Tory in recent years; although I haven't seen the vote breakdown to see if this was a deciding factor. According to the Sunday Telegraph it was due to opposition to traffic-calming schemes! |
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pjw1961
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Post by pjw1961 on May 8, 2022 20:18:41 GMT
Harrow could be explained on the basis of the large Hindu vote there - which has moved significantly from Lab to Tory in recent years; although I haven't seen the vote breakdown to see if this was a deciding factor. According to the Sunday Telegraph it was due to opposition to traffic-calming schemes! Oddly enough Lutfur Rahman in Tower Hamlets also made a lot of campaigning against those: "One of the issues that had angered voters was Mr Biggs' implementation of low-traffic neighbourhoods, where residential streets are shut off to limit traffic. Mr Rahman had suggested one of his first acts as mayor would be to scrap them, saying: "Our roads have been closed, blocked up. It is contributing to more CO2 in the borough when the idea was to reduce it. We're going to look at our roads, we're going to consult and re-open our roads."" Perhaps this is the future route to power! |
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domjg
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Post by domjg on May 8, 2022 20:36:14 GMT
According to the Sunday Telegraph it was due to opposition to traffic-calming schemes! Oddly enough Lutfur Rahman in Tower Hamlets also made a lot of campaigning against those: "One of the issues that had angered voters was Mr Biggs' implementation of low-traffic neighbourhoods, where residential streets are shut off to limit traffic. Mr Rahman had suggested one of his first acts as mayor would be to scrap them, saying: "Our roads have been closed, blocked up. It is contributing to more CO2 in the borough when the idea was to reduce it. We're going to look at our roads, we're going to consult and re-open our roads."" Perhaps this is the future route to power! Whilst I think LTNs are net positive generally I’d happily see them abandoned as my experience of them in Oxford is that benefits are small and uneven with some LTNs being very ill considered and they’re total catnip to the populist right and the driving lobby. Better to my mind to make roads unappealing as through routes with heavy traffic calming measures rather than just blocking them off which can appear draconian. |
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Post by RAF on May 8, 2022 20:40:17 GMT
Harrow could be explained on the basis of the large Hindu vote there - which has moved significantly from Lab to Tory in recent years; although I haven't seen the vote breakdown to see if this was a deciding factor. According to the Sunday Telegraph it was due to opposition to traffic-calming schemes! More likely, in fairness! |
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Post by chrisaberavon on May 8, 2022 20:42:54 GMT
Labour's position on Kashmir at party conference was a disaster IMO. the same party conference, I think, that the party held a debate about whether the Holocaust happened and where the party members waved a flag (not the UK one obvs) and sang 'The River to the Sea'
The Starmer situation and a Queen's Sacrifice allusion are so interesting to observe. Keir has pulled out of a public speech tomorrow according to a tweet bt 'GF'. It is hard to make up
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oldnat
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Extremist - Undermining the UK state and its institutions
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Post by oldnat on May 8, 2022 20:44:48 GMT
Panelbase Full Scottish poll
Only indy related questions in this 1st tranche from the poll (changes from November in brackets)
Indy?
Yes 47% (+2)
No 49% (+2)
DK 5% (-3)
Referendum timing?
24% (+5) in the next 12 months
31% (-3) in 2-5 years
45% (-1) not in the next few years
Polldrums
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Post by RAF on May 8, 2022 20:54:19 GMT
Labour's position on Kashmir at party conference was a disaster IMO. the same party conference, I think, that the party held a debate about whether the Holocaust happened and where the party members waved a flag (not the UK one obvs) and sang 'The River to the Sea' The Starmer situation and a Queen's Sacrifice allusion are so interesting to observe. Keir has pulled out of a public speech tomorrow according to a tweet bt 'GF'. It is hard to make up I was unaware that Labour's position on Kashmir has ever changed, or at least was the same for many years - that the matter should be determined by Referendum or at least in accordance with Resolution 47 of the United Nations (which also essentially calls for a Referendum). Corbyn may be seen by some as a redical but affirming the international law position (albeit under Chapter VI rather than Chapter VII) is hardly grounds for a "disaster". Also, I am not aware of any Labour conference that debated whether the Holocaust happened. Can you confirm? |
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domjg
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Post by domjg on May 8, 2022 21:00:36 GMT
Labour's position on Kashmir at party conference was a disaster IMO. the same party conference, I think, that the party held a debate about whether the Holocaust happened and where the party members waved a flag (not the UK one obvs) and sang 'The River to the Sea' The Starmer situation and a Queen's Sacrifice allusion are so interesting to observe. Keir has pulled out of a public speech tomorrow according to a tweet bt 'GF'. It is hard to make up Now correct me if I’m wrong Chris as you know so much about Labour history but I think, I think Corbyn is no longer Labour leader and a lot of those ‘members’ will have departed with him. I’m curious as to what kind of Labour Party you would actually like to see but I suspect from what I’ve seen it would be very similar to a nationalist, Brexit supporting Tory party just with the label ‘Labour’ so you don’t feel you’re betraying your forefathers/mothers. Just keep voting Tory and the rest of us will carry on with life in the 2020’s. |
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domjg
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Post by domjg on May 8, 2022 21:01:53 GMT
Labour's position on Kashmir at party conference was a disaster IMO. the same party conference, I think, that the party held a debate about whether the Holocaust happened and where the party members waved a flag (not the UK one obvs) and sang 'The River to the Sea' The Starmer situation and a Queen's Sacrifice allusion are so interesting to observe. Keir has pulled out of a public speech tomorrow according to a tweet bt 'GF'. It is hard to make up I was unaware that Labour's position on Kashmir has ever changed, or at least was the same for many years - that the matter should be determined by Referendum or at least in accordance with Resolution 47 of the United Nations (which also essentially calls for a Referendum). Corbyn may be seen by some as a redical but affirming the international law position (albeit under Chapter VI rather than Chapter VII) is hardly grounds for a "disaster". Also, I am not aware of any Labour conference that debated whether the Holocaust happened. Can you confirm? Chris doesn’t do followups. He prefers the hit and run approach. |
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oldnat
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Post by oldnat on May 8, 2022 21:20:37 GMT
domjg
"it would be very similar to a nationalist, Brexit supporting Tory party just with the label ‘Labour’"
Well, in terms of the "nationalist" bit, that's an accurate description of Labour - as confirmed by Nandy this morning. Unsurprising since she previously advocated the UK adopting similar tactics as used by Spain to crush Catalan Independistas against folk like me.
A nasty piece of work!
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steve
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Post by steve on May 8, 2022 21:54:15 GMT
RAF No Labour conference has debated an irrefutable fact. I suppose it's possible that some group of fringe nutters have but frankly I can't recall it happening.
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2022 21:58:32 GMT
Dennis Waterman has died. Not the greatest actor, nor the greatest singer, but a staple TV figure of my youth, and part of the ground breaking Sweeney team that helped to dispel the myths around 1970s era police, and broke new ground in TV crime drama. Absolutely, alec. The Sweeney was indeed groundbreaking stuff. Hard to imagine that it actually overlapped in the TV schedules with Dixon of Dock Green with dear old Jack Warner, by then 80!, still purveying 1950s 'clip 'round the ear' solutions to the misdemeanours of local miscreants. I actually prefer DW in Minder, where his partnership with the peerless George Cole was pure delight. Thankfully, ITV4 have it on a permanent loop every weekday morning. Just the escapism I need to watch while undergoing my daily punishment on the exercise bike! |
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Post by steve on May 8, 2022 21:59:16 GMT
oldnat Well you would say that wouldn't you. Nandy's comments on Catalonia secession date from over two years ago, I don't agree with them . Catalonia secession like that of Scotland doesn't have majority support.
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Post by ladyvalerie on May 8, 2022 22:02:10 GMT
I'm following you all avidly but as I'm in a cruise this week with intermittent and unreliable Internet I can't offer my inestimable words of wisdom. Suffice to say 'beergate' is win win for Labour and lose lose for the Tories. Either Starmer is exonerated or he isn't and resigns thus putting further pressure on Johnson to do likewise. I suspect that Richard Holden is not the most popular Tory MP at present as his pushing has created this situation where the Tories can't win. Lovely! Ooh where are you cruising, Barbara? |
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2022 22:04:36 GMT
I'm following you all avidly but as I'm in a cruise this week with intermittent and unreliable Internet I can't offer my inestimable words of wisdom. Suffice to say 'beergate' is win win for Labour and lose lose for the Tories. Either Starmer is exonerated or he isn't and resigns thus putting further pressure on Johnson to do likewise. I suspect that Richard Holden is not the most popular Tory MP at present as his pushing has created this situation where the Tories can't win. Lovely! Ooh where are you cruising, Barbara? I do hope it’s not Soho.  |
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Post by bardin1 on May 8, 2022 22:14:20 GMT
I'm following you all avidly but as I'm in a cruise this week with intermittent and unreliable Internet I can't offer my inestimable words of wisdom. Suffice to say 'beergate' is win win for Labour and lose lose for the Tories. Either Starmer is exonerated or he isn't and resigns thus putting further pressure on Johnson to do likewise. I suspect that Richard Holden is not the most popular Tory MP at present as his pushing has created this situation where the Tories can't win. Lovely! Queen sacrifice. Interesting... Zugswang would be a more accurate chess description |
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Post by moby on May 9, 2022 3:45:29 GMT
I don’t agree with Moby that when people like Diane Abbot say that if Starmer does receive a FPN he will have to resign suggests we hate each other ……we don’t, we disagree on issues sometimes but most people in the LP on this issue would probably agree that a FPN would l put Starmer in a very difficult position and would probably mean a resignation. May be so but my point is people such as Diane Abbott are not exactly backward in coming forward in making that point. There is also some evidence that people within the Labour Party gave information to the press which was used to reopen the investigation. www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/labour-civil-war-beergate-keir-starmer_uk_62776809e4b0b7c8f08525fd |
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Post by moby on May 9, 2022 4:08:05 GMT
Harrow could be explained on the basis of the large Hindu vote there - which has moved significantly from Lab to Tory in recent years; although I haven't seen the vote breakdown to see if this was a deciding factor. According to the Sunday Telegraph it was due to opposition to traffic-calming schemes! Yep also a major issue in N London boroughs such as Enfield.where Labour lost seats. |
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steve
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Post by steve on May 9, 2022 6:46:31 GMT
crossbat11 Found you lurking over on the guardian you don't escape that easily. Agreed with your post about Brillo a legend in his own head!
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Post by alec on May 9, 2022 6:55:37 GMT
Russia accusing Finland of bullying them, by deciding to join Nato.
As with Brexit, the juxtaposition of simultaneous claims to greatness sits alongside the manufacturing of the claim of being downtrodden and bullied.
This right wing populism stuff is very hard to get your head around, and defies any logical analysis.
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Post by alec on May 9, 2022 7:05:56 GMT
Canadian study into covid infection during pregnancy shows a 5 fold increase in the risk of hospitalisation and a 63% increase in early births.
Meanwhile, a study in the Lancet shows 1 in 37 children likely to be hospitalised with a first covid infection, with 1 in 42 for a reinfection, rather destroying the notion that repeated infections are somehow good for us.
Tough times for the deniers.
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