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Post by lululemonmustdobetter on Jan 12, 2022 7:29:30 GMT
Morning all from a dark and foreboding PSRL. Listening to Radio 4 and it seems Johnson really is in for a rough ride - many in his own ranks seem to breaking cover now. Will have to tune into PMQ's at lunch time today.
The partisan in me would prefer he stayed in post till the next GE (I think the game is up for him now – at last), the part of me which is concerned with the state of the country and its reputation is the sooner he goes the better.
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steve
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Post by steve on Jan 12, 2022 7:39:57 GMT
eor Indeed it must remain a mystery to us all. Mind you it isn't every post some related to correcting the errors of someone called " edge of reason. " Wonder what happened to them they used to be good for a laugh.
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Post by lululemonmustdobetter on Jan 12, 2022 7:40:53 GMT
If a week is a long time in politics, then 6 weeks is, well, six times as long  Stranger things have happened. For example, in 1992, with a bit over a month to go to the election, and a bookies that I passed on the way to work was offering odds of 5-1 for "Conservatives the largest party" (so not even an overall majority)[1]. This was because Labour were enough ahead that the result seemed almost like a foregone conclusion. Labour was never that far ahead during the 1992 election - never more han 7% in a poll and more generally 3% or so with some polls showing the parties neck and neck. That appeared to make a Tory majority unlikely but Labour was not likely to manage better than emerge as the largest party.Polling Day was April 9th - on 12th March Gallup had put the Tories 2.5% ahead.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_1992_United_Kingdom_general_election
Labour's double digit leads were more in 1990 (which prompted the Tories to ditch Thatcher). |
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Jan 12, 2022 7:45:45 GMT
Second, a Brexiteer must compare everything to World War Two. . . Mark's own D-Day comes on 29 March 2019 when he saves Britain from overly close alignment with Brussels on phytosanitary standards. . . I have been watching 'the crown' recently. I would recommend it as a tour de force creating a wonderful soap opera story of a family clinging to wealth and position ( i hesitate to say power) by cruelly imposing conditions upon its own members. All this against a factual background of the names and major details of actual history we all remember, so that it at least appears to be filing in the details of real history. Raising the wonderfully teasing question to what extent it it is truly accurate, where the fiction takes over. Anyway, in passing it portrays real life of the periods concerned and is a reminder of what life was really like then. The film makers are using it to contrast with the conditions for the royal family, but even there we are reminded what is possible for us compared to the tiny black and white TV the queen is first seen to be watching. How she has a private secretary to find out things we can just look up, walking down the street, on wikipedia.
Anyway, its a reminder where the queen is sent on world tours to encourage countries to stay part of the empire, or of Suez where we staged an invasion of Egypt, of a time when we had an empire and armed forces which could invade other nations. Also that ultimately all these measures failed and the empire is gone. The struggle at that time was a rearguard retreat from empire we could no longer maintain and an attempt to find a new place in the world for the UK before things beame even worse. We concluded the only way ahead was to join the EU.
What just happened is a review of that decision but without the circumstances and facts which dictated the original decision to join, that the UK was in a state of collapse as its world position dissolved. We are now back in that situation of a dissolving world standing with once again no plan. I dont recall this getting a mention in the brexit campaign, whereas it featured prominently in the first referendum and national thinking.
The crown is all about the attempt to appear important and powerful while having no power at all. The whole period during and post WW2 which gave rise to the brexit supporting generation was one of pretence to being a word power while the substance of that was unravelling fast and unstoppably. Its a toxic legacy of illusion given a boost by rosy hindsight, a good pension founded on the success of our EU membership, and a touch of senility.
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Post by alec on Jan 12, 2022 7:56:56 GMT
Fascinating report on BBC R4 this morning from the boss of one of the Big Six. He was arguing for VAT on fuel bills to be removed, along with shifting green tariffs and the costs of the energy company collapses onto general taxation rather than as levies on energy bills. There was no mention of the welter of network charges and levies that pretty much double energy costs for industrial users, but the issue here is the same.
We can see overall the impact of the long drift to demonise taxation and raise government revenue by stealth, instigated primarily by the right wing Conservatives but playsd along with by New Labour, once the principle that taxation is bad was established in the public mind.
The item suggested that such moves would save consumers an average of £350 a year, and while this would suit energy companies, it does illustrate how we are hiding genuine state expenses behind a complex system of levies, fees, charges and indirect taxes. These are regressive. Poorer households spend much more of their incme on fuel, and a return to a tax based system would clearly be fairer. It's also disadvantaging UK industry.
In the end, governments need cash to give us the services we demand, but until we accept taxation provides us with good things, we're going to be stiuck with these regulatory interventions and the inefficiencies they bring.
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Post by alec on Jan 12, 2022 7:59:49 GMT
Also found it grimly amusing that the BBC aired a short segment on warnings of respiratory virus RSV, which can hospitalise 'up to' 20,000 children a year.
Peculiar, that they haven't yet mentioned the current hopsitalisation rate from covid of 50,000 a year. We're still in denial here.
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Post by lululemonmustdobetter on Jan 12, 2022 8:00:50 GMT
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jib
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Post by jib on Jan 12, 2022 8:12:34 GMT
I find the posts above describing how the inept Johnson has followed the breadcrumbs of well placed leaks and fallen into an elephant trap quite amusing.
It is all his own making, and clearly the man is incapable of coming clean when a clear apology and acceptance of responsibility would have caused reputational but not irreretriavable harm.
I think the electorate are ready to initiate divorce proceedings. "I was never there" won't do.
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Jan 12, 2022 8:13:30 GMT
Looking at the basics of the current BYOB party issue, does any one believe Johnson's Principal Private Secretary would send an invite to a 100 people to attend a BYOB party in Johnson's garden without getting the okay from Johnson?
The only question for me is whether it was Johnsons idea or whether he gave the go ahead for it
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steve
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Post by steve on Jan 12, 2022 8:22:42 GMT
Attachment DeletedPmq's should be interesting today. Unless of course Spaffer finds an urgent industrial freezer unit to inspect.
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Jan 12, 2022 8:25:11 GMT
Peculiar, that they haven't yet mentioned the current hopsitalisation rate from covid of 50,000 a year. We're still in denial here. Its always been true that people ending up in hospital with covid have overwhelmingly also been ill with something else, even if that is only degeneration which occurs naturally with old age. Its never been simply covid which sends people to hospital but always thet there is something else wrong with them. |
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Jan 12, 2022 8:29:31 GMT
I think the electorate are ready to initiate divorce proceedings. "I was never there" won't do. Kuenssberg just now I think had it right, it isnt anything to do with parties which will decide now if he goes or stays. Its whether the MPs think he is a net asset or liability considering the wider picture of brexit and the general state of the epidemic.
On the latter, it looks like the covid epidemic is essentiall over and we will not resume mandatory restrictions again. Those still lin place are already no longer helpful and simply throwing away more money. But what this means is a new leader could now take office and separate himself from Johnson's handling of the epidemic. admit mistakes were made and apologise for what johnson did to the nation, before the next election sooner rather than later.
There is no legal bar to an early election, it only requies MPs to vote for it to happen.
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steve
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Post by steve on Jan 12, 2022 8:32:13 GMT
lululemonmustdobetter As I recall Labour were looking likely victors until John Smith handed the result to the Tories by announcing uncapping national insurance contributions to molify the left wing. It would have resulted in a an effective tax increase of around 4% on such high flyers as police sergeants and nurse teachers, given I was one of these married to the other example I had to well and truly hold my nose and think of the public good when voting Labour. Hundreds of thousands of middle income earners didn't.
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Post by alec on Jan 12, 2022 8:32:25 GMT
@danny - "Its always been true that people ending up in hospital with covid have overwhelmingly also been ill with something else.."
No it isn't.
Old age isn't an illness, you silly, silly man.
Most people in hospital with covid are there because of covid, even where they have other conditions, because covid makes otherwise controllable illnesses much more deadly.
Go away and get some facts to play with. And then learn how to play with them properly.
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Post by alec on Jan 12, 2022 8:34:08 GMT
@danny - "On the latter, it looks like the covid epidemic is essentiall over and we will not resume mandatory restrictions again. Those still lin place are already no longer helpful and simply throwing away more money."
I'll cut out and keep this one. Very funny, in a grimly stupid kind of way.
You (and others) said exactly this last summer......
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Jan 12, 2022 8:37:28 GMT
Australian tennis continues with Djokovic aditting to having made a mistake on a form, or one of his aids doing so.
This creates an opening for the australian government to bat back their acceptance of his visa grant, and cancel it for giving false information.
But on the other hand, they must now be close to the point they declare a formal end to their policy of strict immigration control. It wouldnt look very good to deport him, and then declare open entry again. John Campbell reported maybe a week ago omicron was already taking off in Australia, so its likely already beyond the point strict restrictions ae doing any good whatever.
hopeless position for the government because there is no option which makes them look in the right.
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Jan 12, 2022 8:39:23 GMT
Old age isn't an illness, you silly, silly man. yeah right...i'd sooner take my chances any day of surviving covid than surviving old age.
@danny - "On the latter, it looks like the covid epidemic is essentiall over and we will not resume mandatory restrictions again. Those still lin place are already no longer helpful and simply throwing away more money." I'll cut out and keep this one. Very funny, in a grimly stupid kind of way. You (and others) said exactly this last summer...... I think I said then we should end mandatory restrictions, and I still believe I was right. I dont think I said we would end them. The decisions were political at least as much as medical. |
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Post by alec on Jan 12, 2022 8:46:11 GMT
Early data from New York, still preliminary, suggesting that while Omicron causes fewer admissions among adults than Delta, it increases them for u18s.
This fits with the observed pattern of UK admissions, where admissions of children this year are vastly higher than previous waves.
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Jan 12, 2022 8:48:38 GMT
Mark Francois' book 'Spartan Victory' is out now! There's a review of it in the current Private Eye. '. . . Francois's self-published memoir - rejected by 24 Remain supporting publishers, he says - is written in a style we might christen High Partridge. . . You can read this memoir two ways. For fans of Mark Francois . . . this is one man's struggle to prevent Britain becoming a "vassal state". For everyone else, it's an unselfconscious window into the psychology of the most ardent Breiteers. First, a Brexiteer is an underdog, no matter how many titles or millions or country houses he has. . . Second, a Brexiteer must compare everything to World War Two. . . Mark's own D-Day comes on 29 March 2019 when he saves Britain from overly close alignment with Brussels on phytosanitary standards. . . You suspect Francois often sits at home, dreaming about future battles with Europe, and frantically polishing his spear.' They're obsessive lunatics, have been for 30 odd years now. Their parents must have regaled them with stories of WW2 derring do when they were kids and they feel some strange obsessional need to try to emulate that in their own unsophisticated, childish way. |
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Jan 12, 2022 8:58:58 GMT
Early data from New York, still preliminary, suggesting that while Omicron causes fewer admissions among adults than Delta, it increases them for u18s. This fits with the observed pattern of UK admissions, where admissions of children this year are vastly higher than previous waves. At the time of the first outbreak, kids were getting 3-4 corona virus infections every year, which will have vaccinated them against covid. We halted those vaccinations by closing schools, so it wouldnt be surprising if this has meant they are now more susceptible to harm from covid.
The remorseless law of unexpected consequences.
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Post by tancred on Jan 12, 2022 9:14:18 GMT
TWs: The future is not set. There is no fate but what we make for ourselvesThat's a bummer. There was me banking on my birthday being the same date as usual this year, but if the future isn't set... And if my house gets struck by lightning, it will be nobody's fault but mine. Yeah, right... ********** If I've only just considering these nostrums of the TWs and realised how vacuous they are. There is the materialistic Tory mentality for you. Not allowing anything to fate or bad luck, which is absurd. |
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Post by crossbat11 on Jan 12, 2022 9:15:09 GMT
eor/Robert I don't think there's a more readily polarised discussion to be had anywhere than the one that relates to who our favourite comedians may be. Humour is quite a personal thing and some comedians and/or certain comedy can have one person beside themselves with laughter whilst leaving another completely mirthless. I've seen it within my own family and circle of friends. I think Steve Coogan is a very, very funny man, and Alan Partridge a wonderful comic creation. My wife can't stand either. We both love Dave Allen however. She finds Peter Kay hilarious. I'm far less struck. On it goes. As for Frankie Boyle, I did confine my admiration to his political satire and said nothing about some of his more controversial gags in the past that have landed him in trouble. I watched him in the flesh at Wolverhampton Civic Hall about 12 years ago. He's a skilled gag teller with natural comic timing. Some of his material was very funny, some not. It was an enjoyable hour or so but I'm not lionising him. He's picked some wrong targets for some insensitive jokes in the past. Not the first generally liked comedian to have done so either. At the end of the day, he's a jester. No more no less. We mustn't be too pompous and earnest about the trade he plys.
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Jan 12, 2022 9:16:10 GMT
More or less just opened with 'hello, and welcome to a bring your own booze edition of more or less'. Its getting some traction.
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Post by tancred on Jan 12, 2022 9:17:42 GMT
lululemonmustdobetter As I recall Labour were looking likely victors until John Smith handed the result to the Tories by announcing uncapping national insurance contributions to molify the left wing. It would have resulted in a an effective tax increase of around 4% on such high flyers as police sergeants and nurse teachers, given I was one of these married to the other example I had to well and truly hold my nose and think of the public good when voting Labour. Hundreds of thousands of middle income earners didn't. In fairness John Smith was probably right, but it should not have been announced as a policy. Labour has learned the lesson now. Funny how the definition of 'middle income' has changed over the years - seems that IT consultants, doctors and accountants are all middle income now. |
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Jan 12, 2022 9:21:31 GMT
Interesting snippet from Dan Hodges who is normally a staunch tory defender
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Post by tancred on Jan 12, 2022 9:26:35 GMT
eor /Robert I don't think there's a more readily polarised discussion to be had anywhere than the one that relates to who our favourite comedians may be. Humour is quite a personal thing and some comedians and/or certain comedy can have one person beside themselves with laughter whilst leaving another completely mirthless. I've seen it within my own family and circle of friends. I think Steve Coogan is a very, very funny man, and Alan Partridge a wonderful comic creation. My wife can't stand either. We both love Dave Allen however. She finds Peter Kay hilarious. I'm far less struck. On it goes. As for Frankie Boyle, I did confine my admiration to his political satire and said nothing about some of his more controversial gags in the past that have landed him in trouble. I watched him in the flesh at Wolverhampton Civic Hall about 12 years ago. He's a skilled gag teller with natural comic timing. Some of his material was very funny, some not. It was an enjoyable hour or so but I'm not lionising him. He's picked some wrong targets for some insensitive jokes in the past. Not the first generally liked comedian to have done so either. At the end of the day, he's a jester. No more no less. We mustn't be too pompous and earnest about the trade he plys. I used to love Benny Hill and Dick Emery (I can feel the looks of anger and contempt from Barbara and Lululemon!).  |
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Jan 12, 2022 9:34:32 GMT
Two of my favourite 1970's comedians were Dave Allen and Jasper Carrot.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2022 9:37:40 GMT
The only question for me is whether it was Johnsons idea or whether he gave the go ahead for it I don't think it makes any difference. My inclination is that Reynolds just decided to invite them all-it seems to be a Whitehall thing judging by the number of "parties" being investigated by Sue Gray. And for me that makes it worse-60 or 70 invitees didn't turn up. There are reports of outraged reaction. The "political" advisers are reported as being concerned. And what does Johnson do-join the 70?-Nope he goes to the Party. It is so unbelievably crass. Now I cannot see any verdict from Gray which helps him. If she says he broke the law-the public's loss of confidence in him is confirmed with knobs on. If she says he was there , but some factor absolves him-the public will believe its a whitewash and the whole Whitehall system is remote and elitist ( count me in on that !) If she says he is completely innocent-was there briefly, -was in his own garden-whatever.-the public will not believe it. If he apologises-it gets even worse because he denied knowledge of parties at first. So the public see a liar confirming their growing doubts about him. His MPs are having to apologise to their constituents for him. I cant see any solution which keeps him in place and the Conservatives in Government. |
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Post by lululemonmustdobetter on Jan 12, 2022 9:38:04 GMT
lululemonmustdobetter As I recall Labour were looking likely victors until John Smith handed the result to the Tories by announcing uncapping national insurance contributions to molify the left wing. It would have resulted in a an effective tax increase of around 4% on such high flyers as police sergeants and nurse teachers, given I was one of these married to the other example I had to well and truly hold my nose and think of the public good when voting Labour. Hundreds of thousands of middle income earners didn't. |
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Post by barbara on Jan 12, 2022 9:43:23 GMT
More or less just opened with 'hello, and welcome to a bring your own booze edition of more or less'. Its getting some traction. Eddie Mair had a socially distanced BOYB party on his programme on LBC yesterday evening, complete with background chatter. People were ringing in and playing the game with their own drinks and comments. |
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