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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2022 9:44:18 GMT
Frankie Boyle a comedian? He's about as funny as a broken leg and nasty with it. And people complain about Jim Davidson! Anyone who mocks people with Down's syndrome for their haircuts clothes and voices is an apology for a human being. |
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steve
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Post by steve on Jan 12, 2022 9:50:49 GMT
alec While you are correct in that old age isn't an illness the vast majority of people in hospital suffering from chronic illness are old.Clearly age is a contributing factor in the potential severity of covid as with many other conditions , if you are over 75 you are 1500 times as likely to die from covid than if you are under 18. That's just a fact. Estimates regarding the percentage of people currently who are in hospital with incidental covid or acquire covid while in hospital vary from around 30-45% in the uk, so not a majority but some indicators from the U.S. suggest the figure in some states is as high as 60%.
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Post by eotw on Jan 12, 2022 9:52:19 GMT
Just liked to posts from Colin, must be End of Days :-)
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2022 9:54:38 GMT
@tw
Re Sunak's Rocks and Hard Place.
David Smith on QE in Times today.
BoE have set two triggers for Monetary tightening ( QT):-
Bank rate at 0.5%= Cease reinvesting QE redemptions-ie steady run down of the stock.
Bank rate at 1%=Start selling off QE assets .
MPC meet on Feb. 3
Rishi can no longer rely on BoE to cover new borrowing.
You can probably think of as many requirements to borrow ( or tax ) as I can at the moment !
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Post by tancred on Jan 12, 2022 9:56:47 GMT
lululemonmustdobetter As I recall Labour were looking likely victors until John Smith handed the result to the Tories by announcing uncapping national insurance contributions to molify the left wing. It would have resulted in a an effective tax increase of around 4% on such high flyers as police sergeants and nurse teachers, given I was one of these married to the other example I had to well and truly hold my nose and think of the public good when voting Labour. Hundreds of thousands of middle income earners didn't. I was 25 in 1992, and still fairly 'wet behind the ears' in many ways. I was so surprised that Labour lost because I had the impression people were tired of the Tories after 13 years. I attributed the Labour defeat to the hostility of the Tory press, especially the Mail, Express and Sun. In those days the papers were much more influential than now; it wasn't just the old who read them but the younger age groups as well. |
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steve
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Post by steve on Jan 12, 2022 9:59:38 GMT
lululemonmustdobetterAs a serving police officer at the time I of course was prevented from campaigning for or being a member of any political party. But if memory serves me correctly while the large majority of police officers in the Met were Tory supporters certainly the move to increase nic put them off even considering a change. For Faith in nursing with majority Labour support the nic increase proposal definitely had an impact on many staff from ward sister upwards a fair proportion of whom switched votes to the liberals.
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Post by crossbat11 on Jan 12, 2022 10:01:54 GMT
Two of my favourite 1970's comedians were Dave Allen and Jasper Carrot. I was a big fan of Jasper until he joined the Board of Directors of Birmingham City FC!! More seriously, he's a genuinely funny man with a more gentle and self deprecating style of stand up comedy than some of his peers. Saw him perform live for the first time way back in the mid 70s. The venue? Redditch Conservative Club. My Dad, a member, blagged me a ticket! Jasper was just coming on to the scene back then and had a residency (part ownership share too) at a club called the Boggery in Lugtrout Lane in Solihull. Just down the road from the giant Land Rover plant where I worked for many a fun filled year. Shortly after the Redditch Tory club gig he broke into the big time. Still lives close to his old club in Knowle. Still supports his beloved Blues too. He's got some very funny stories about attending games and following his benighted, forever faltering old club. Good old Blues, the quintessential brummie club. I recognise that, even as an ardent Villa fan. If neither club existed, the brummies would have to invent them. Both of them deeply ingrained in brummie culture. Long may they remain so too. |
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Post by tancred on Jan 12, 2022 10:02:27 GMT
lululemonmustdobetter As a serving police officer at the time I of course was prevented from campaigning for or being a member of any political party. But if memory serves me correctly while the large majority of police officers in the Met were Tory supporters certainly the move to increase nic put them off even considering a change. For Faith in nursing with majority Labour support the nic increase proposal definitely had an impact on many staff from ward sister upwards a fair proportion of whom switched votes to the liberals. I've never understood the love affair between coppers and the Tories. The Tories traditionally hate the public sector; if they could privatise the Police, they would. From what I can remember the Labour NI changes would have affected no more than 10-11% of workers. |
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steve
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Post by steve on Jan 12, 2022 10:05:35 GMT
tancred the press could be relied upon to portray Labour in a bad light. The vicious attacks on Kinnock for the twin offences of being Welsh and ginger was a fair example of the schoolboy level of their criticisms. But I would still contend that it was John Smith's announcement on nic that probably nailed the coffin lie shut. No need for the statement it was never going to win a single extra vote and could do nothing other than piss off their middle earning and professional class supporters.
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Post by tancred on Jan 12, 2022 10:06:50 GMT
tancred the press could be relied upon to portray Labour in a bad light. The vicious attacks on Kinnock for the twin offences of being Welsh and ginger was a fair example of the schoolboy level of their criticisms. But I would still contend that it was John Smith's announcement on nic that probably nailed the coffin lie shut. No need for the statement it was never going to win a single extra vote and could do nothing other than piss off their middle earning and professional class supporters. I seem to recall that the NI changes would only have affected 10 or 11% of the workforce. Maybe 15%. Is that correct or am I dreaming? |
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Post by lululemonmustdobetter on Jan 12, 2022 10:08:35 GMT
Just liked to posts from Colin, must be End of Days :-) .  |
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Post by crossbat11 on Jan 12, 2022 10:10:17 GMT
Just liked to posts from Colin, must be End of Days :-) Treatment and therapy is available, I believe. 😜🤣 |
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Post by moby on Jan 12, 2022 10:21:20 GMT
Hi steve I was still at school then doing my A-levels. My best friend and I did some campaign work after school and at weekends - stuffing envelopes mostly, did a bit of door to door at weekends. We were so sure Labour would win (oh to be young and innocent again) - but some of the older more experienced party activists were very pessimistic in the two weeks before polling day, a couple actually said they thought we were going to lose based on the overall reception we were getting on the doorstep. I was 25 in 1992, and still fairly 'wet behind the ears' in many ways. I was so surprised that Labour lost because I had the impression people were tired of the Tories after 13 years. I attributed the Labour defeat to the hostility of the Tory press, especially the Mail, Express and Sun. In those days the papers were much more influential than now; it wasn't just the old who read them but the younger age groups as well. The Sheffield rally didnt help. www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TOgB3Smvro |
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Post by thexterminatingdalek on Jan 12, 2022 10:21:21 GMT
Mark Francois' book 'Spartan Victory' is out now! There's a review of it in the current Private Eye. '. . . Francois's self-published memoir - rejected by 24 Remain supporting publishers, he says - is written in a style we might christen High Partridge. . . You can read this memoir two ways. For fans of Mark Francois . . . this is one man's struggle to prevent Britain becoming a "vassal state". For everyone else, it's an unselfconscious window into the psychology of the most ardent Breiteers. First, a Brexiteer is an underdog, no matter how many titles or millions or country houses he has. . . Second, a Brexiteer must compare everything to World War Two. . . Mark's own D-Day comes on 29 March 2019 when he saves Britain from overly close alignment with Brussels on phytosanitary standards. . . You suspect Francois often sits at home, dreaming about future battles with Europe, and frantically polishing his spear.' The Oh God What Now podcast of their live show just before Christmas featured Alex Andreou reading a section from the book. Just as unintentionally funny as you'd imagine. |
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Post by crossbat11 on Jan 12, 2022 10:25:25 GMT
It seems to me that we're getting to that familiar stage in Tory Party politics where the increasingly fretful diehards are yearning for another application of lustrous and thick coated lipstick on the porcine specimen that is their beloved party.
The Johnson shade is fading fast, so let's get the new Max Factor line of Sunak lipstick. Enough voters will fall in line again, mistaking the pig for an alluring beauty. Sunak tint no good, well maybe a bit of Truss. There that looks better. Porcine specimen told not to make a mess of the sty for a bit. Sits there smiling at passers by. Nice animal again for a bit.
Can this keep working? Are these recent polls suggesting that the voters are finally making a connection and maybe won't be fooled again. For Johnson didn't appear out of the ether, an alien sprite put amongst us by mischievous gods. He was given to us, as was Brexit and the years of austerity that went before and nurtured it, by the Tory Party. He is Toryism, not some ephemeral aberration.
This needs to be Labour's key political message from hereon in, hasn't it? The problem isn't Johnson, it's the party that gave him to us. There are arguments that incompetent PMs like Cameron and May were less malign but equally disastrous Tory visitations upon our affairs of state. This has gone on for too long now, surely?
Rubbish the lipstick by all means, but concentrate on the creature beneath. That's my message to No Drama just Starmer.
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Post by steamdrivenandy on Jan 12, 2022 10:29:52 GMT
You do have to ponder on the scale of ambition of politicians when they aspire to be PM in circumstances like we face now.
Actually it seems odd that though those Tory MP's with no ministerial ambitions are pushing for Johnson to go, whilst the ones at the top of a very low pile are going round in circles saying 'after you'.
Poor Kier Starmer looks like a man pushed onto the bridge to take command when the ship is sinking and the crew are jumping over the side.
How on earth do you handle the pandemic, recovery or ongoing, the continuing impact of Brexit, along with a risky NI situation, the northern part of your union wanting offski and the need to finance an enormous deficit, plus try and sort all the structural issues. Looking at all that, it's plainly obvious that Johnson was never suited to managing such a portfolio. But in reality who could?
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Post by thexterminatingdalek on Jan 12, 2022 10:31:46 GMT
Until I just listened to the Times Radio Red Box podcast focus group just now, I began to believe Johnson might do well to make it as far as today's Wednesday Event. My prediction on the other thread that he will last until Easter next year looks like it's sprung a leak.
Wouldn't surprise me if he tested positive in the next hour and went to spend some time in the fridge. If he does turn up, it'll be interesting to see how many of his front bench turn out to support him.
I think he's gone.
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Jan 12, 2022 10:35:03 GMT
You do have to ponder on the scale of ambition of politicians when they aspire to be PM in circumstances like we face now. Actually it seems odd that though those Tory MP's with no ministerial ambitions are pushing for Johnson to go, whilst the ones at the top of a very low pile are going round in circles saying 'after you'. Poor Kier Starmer looks like a man pushed onto the bridge to take command when the ship is sinking and the crew are jumping over the side. How on earth do you handle the pandemic, recovery or ongoing, the continuing impact of Brexit, along with a risky NI situation, the northern part of your union wanting offski and the need to finance an enormous deficit, plus try and sort all the structural issues. Looking at all that, it's plainly obvious that Johnson was never suited to managing such a portfolio. But in reality who could? The thing is the portfolio wouldn't be quite so bulging if Johnson had never come along in the first place (Brexit/NI/urgency of Scottish independence) |
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Post by alec on Jan 12, 2022 10:48:20 GMT
thexterminatingdalek - I think the radio silence from No 10 for the last 36 hours or so is telling. They still haven't settled on a line to spin, and if your last line of defence is Michael Fabricant, you're in trouble. Dr A and myself went out for a good walk yesterday and I suggested that by the time we returned shortly after sunset, Johnson could be gone. That didn't happen, but I've seen nothing overnight to suggest how he can credibly survive. I hope his arrogance keeps him clinging on for a good while yet though. He has been such a dreadful PM that I'd really like to see him maximise the damage to his party, which bears 100% culpability for foisting such a corrupt, incompetent liar onto this country. They should never be forgiven. One further thought is this: Johnson was the chief architect of Brexit, and Johnson is - proven now, without doubt, and with no hiding place - a liar. Taint by association can be as damaging as direct guilt, and the manner of Johnson's fall from grace - not a sex scandal, not a political donation scandal, not a matter of corrupt contracts, but a direct and blatant lie - may well set the ball rolling on the further unraveling of the promise of Brexit. Like the PMs entire career, that was based on a pack of lies too, and perhaps the public can start to see this, now they have the true measure of the man.
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Post by steamdrivenandy on Jan 12, 2022 10:56:29 GMT
You do have to ponder on the scale of ambition of politicians when they aspire to be PM in circumstances like we face now. Actually it seems odd that though those Tory MP's with no ministerial ambitions are pushing for Johnson to go, whilst the ones at the top of a very low pile are going round in circles saying 'after you'. Poor Kier Starmer looks like a man pushed onto the bridge to take command when the ship is sinking and the crew are jumping over the side. How on earth do you handle the pandemic, recovery or ongoing, the continuing impact of Brexit, along with a risky NI situation, the northern part of your union wanting offski and the need to finance an enormous deficit, plus try and sort all the structural issues. Looking at all that, it's plainly obvious that Johnson was never suited to managing such a portfolio. But in reality who could? The thing is the portfolio wouldn't be quite so bulging if Johnson had never come along in the first place (Brexit/NI/urgency of Scottish independence) Absolutely - 100% |
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Jan 12, 2022 10:56:38 GMT
And for me that makes it worse-60 or 70 invitees didn't turn up. There are reports of outraged reaction. The "political" advisers are reported as being concerned. And what does Johnson do-join the 70?-Nope he goes to the Party. Johnson had just recovered from covid. At the time the advice he would have received was that he was now immune to covid, could not catch it again and was no risk to anyone else. The issue is not that he was wrong, but it was deeply hypocritical for him to party when others in a similar position, such as Prof ferguson, were dismissed from their jobs for breaking covid rules. What should have been happening at that time was all of us released from lockdown. Thats the terrible mistake he was party to.
(not forgetting that at the time the government admitted covid was under control in the community, and the only reasons for continuing restrictions was that the NHS was unable to prevent spread within its hospitals. They talked about there being three epidemics. The communty, the hospitals, and community care settings.)
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Post by tancred on Jan 12, 2022 10:56:45 GMT
I hope that Johnson's fall will herald the downfall of Brexit. Nothing would please me more, but there is a long way to go.
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Post by shevii on Jan 12, 2022 11:04:31 GMT
Interesting how Johnson has now wrecked any chance of a positive place in history for himself. For someone who didn't seem to care about anything very much and just wanted PM on his CV, he had the chance to drop out sometime in 2021 as the man who goes down in history as getting brexit done and seeing us through the first wave of Covid. He could have made some flimsy excuse about how after he got Covid he either wasn't quite himself any more or had re-assessed his priorities in life.
Instead he has carried on, surely having some awareness that he wasn't up to the detail of the job and that things would eventually come crashing down around him.
I can understand the conviction politicians like Thatcher & Blair wanting to take on the challenge of Covid recovery or post brexit arrangements and staying to the bitter end even if their credibility falls as a result of staying beyond sell by date. People like Heath, Ed Miliband, Kenneth Clarke are a similar mould in that they were happy to carrying on "making a difference" whatever position they are in but with Johnson (and I think Cameron too and probably Starmer if he fails to get elected PM) they don't hang around as constituency MPs or have a deep commitment to politics.
I'm left wondering if Johnson just expected to be able to ride things out (maybe he still thinks that) but what was his motivation to believe this was likely to happen and that he was up to the job given that he only really wants the publicity and his place in history?
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Jan 12, 2022 11:09:12 GMT
Until I just listened to the Times Radio Red Box podcast focus group just now, I began to believe Johnson might do well to make it as far as today's Wednesday Event. My prediction on the other thread that he will last until Easter next year looks like it's sprung a leak. Wouldn't surprise me if he tested positive in the next hour and went to spend some time in the fridge. If he does turn up, it'll be interesting to see how many of his front bench turn out to support him. I think he's gone. I actually hope he stays so that the whole Tory party suffers for it at the next election. They can't just keep on trying to shed the skin of a useless leader and pretend to re-invent themselves again and again. It's the party that's rotten and dysfunctional not just Johnson. |
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Jan 12, 2022 11:12:13 GMT
Interesting how Johnson has now wrecked any chance of a positive place in history for himself. For someone who didn't seem to care about anything very much and just wanted PM on his CV, he had the chance to drop out sometime in 2021 as the man who goes down in history as getting brexit done and seeing us through the first wave of Covid. He could have made some flimsy excuse about how after he got Covid he either wasn't quite himself any more or had re-assessed his priorities in life. Instead he has carried on, surely having some awareness that he wasn't up to the detail of the job and that things would eventually come crashing down around him. I can understand the conviction politicians like Thatcher & Blair wanting to take on the challenge of Covid recovery or post brexit arrangements and staying to the bitter end even if their credibility falls as a result of staying beyond sell by date. People like Heath, Ed Miliband, Kenneth Clarke are a similar mould in that they were happy to carrying on "making a difference" whatever position they are in but with Johnson (and I think Cameron too and probably Starmer if he fails to get elected PM) they don't hang around as constituency MPs or have a deep commitment to politics. I'm left wondering if Johnson just expected to be able to ride things out (maybe he still thinks that) but what was his motivation to believe this was likely to happen and that he was up to the job given that he only really wants the publicity and his place in history? I read somewhere that with the hubris we know he possesses his aim was to be PM longer than Thatcher. Maybe some delusional part of him still believes he can pull it out of the bag. |
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Post by hireton on Jan 12, 2022 11:14:12 GMT
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2022 11:15:06 GMT
The vicious attacks on Kinnock for the twin offences of being Welsh and ginger was a fair example of the schoolboy level of their criticisms. They weren’t all as fair as that though. |
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Post by James E on Jan 12, 2022 11:21:38 GMT
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Post by tancred on Jan 12, 2022 11:27:32 GMT
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Jan 12, 2022 11:31:12 GMT
It seems to me that we're getting to that familiar stage in Tory Party politics where the increasingly fretful diehards are yearning for another application of lustrous and thick coated lipstick on the porcine specimen that is their beloved party. The Johnson shade is fading fast, so let's get the new Max Factor line of Sunak lipstick. Enough voters will fall in line again, mistaking the pig for an alluring beauty. Sunak tint no good, well maybe a bit of Truss. There that looks better. Porcine specimen told not to make a mess of the sty for a bit. Sits there smiling at passers by. Nice animal again for a bit. Can this keep working? Are these recent polls suggesting that the voters are finally making a connection and maybe won't be fooled again. For Johnson didn't appear out of the ether, an alien sprite put amongst us by mischievous gods. He was given to us, as was Brexit and the years of austerity that went before and nurtured it, by the Tory Party. He is Toryism, not some ephemeral aberration. This needs to be Labour's key political message from hereon in, hasn't it? The problem isn't Johnson, it's the party that gave him to us. There are arguments that incompetent PMs like Cameron and May were less malign but equally disastrous Tory visitations upon our affairs of state. This has gone on for too long now, surely? Rubbish the lipstick by all means, but concentrate on the creature beneath. That's my message to No Drama just Starmer. "It seems to me that we're getting to that familiar stage in Tory Party politics where the increasingly fretful diehards are yearning for another application of lustrous and thick coated lipstick on the porcine specimen that is their beloved party" - Thanks for that gave me a needed laugh! Sums it up perfectly. The party IS the problem not just some of the personnel. |
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