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Post by tancred on Jan 11, 2022 13:29:56 GMT
Somerjohn "Well, we have a reasonable selection of RoC folk posting here." I may have missed one or two but I think there are four or five of us. Me, colin , mercian & tw. Maybe tancred , not sure. The rest are very much on the left by varying degrees. I would describe myself as centrist. |
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Post by steamdrivenandy on Jan 11, 2022 13:31:22 GMT
I think the red wall is a massive problem for the Conservative party. The cost of living crisis, raise in NI contributions and soaring inflation are likely going to make many voters who lent there vote for Brexit considering returning to Labour. If London stays mainly red and the red wall returns we are in hung Parliament territory. But the SNP closing Scotland at Christmas has been vastly unpopular north of the border inroads by Labour in Scotland would be game changing. I think we wont get a GE until absolutely necessary but I do feel that some kind of attractive offer has to be found by Mr Sunek. Even if the CofEx pulls a rabbit out of the hat for voting time it will have to be paid for after the election, there is no war chest and unlikely to be. Whoever wins will have to wind it back in somehow. It will definitely be time to bring the fabled note on the desk out. By then someone might have the bright idea to join a grouping of neighbouring countries in a single market to stimulate growth, investment and tax revenues. |
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Post by graham on Jan 11, 2022 13:31:53 GMT
That is a myth which many people appear to have swallowed.When Wilson returned to office in March 1974 he had no intention of serving a full term. His family were aware of this and is reflected in the decision not to return to living at 10 Downing St. - but to remain at Lord North St. His memory was not quite what it was , but almost certainly that simply reflected the natural ageing process rather than ill health. After retiring in April 1976 he wrote a further volume of memoirs, chaired a Commission on the City, delivered lectures and a TV series on earlier PMs whilst continuing as MP for Huyton until 1983.In 1980 he was badly affected by the anasthetic when undergoing an operation for colon cancer. The clear signs of Dementia/Alzheimers did not really appear until circa 1985. Nah, Wilson was an alcoholic. He was only 60 when he quit - hardly senile. He could have served a full term had he wished to do so, but he was unable to cope with the job without downing half a bottle of whisky a day. I am sure that his drinking (and smoking) hastened his cancer and also dementia. I have never heard that seriously suggested. He certainly did not drink on the scale of Churchill. Had Labour been re-elected in 1970 , it is likely that he would have retired circa 1973 - probably being succeeded by Roy Jenkins. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2022 13:34:00 GMT
Crofty, have you noticed that as well as a welcome and hopefully burgeoning, female element on the board, we seem to have garnered some of the feline persuasion. Are Rosie and Daisy OK with this? Miss Pippin just asked me if I thought they had enough lives left to outlast Johnson? Not aware of the cat problem Andy but I do hope that, if the ladies are to do any “burgeoning” they do it in the appropriate, “WIMMIN ONLY” thread, which I have kindly provided for them. It’s very easy to find girls but, if you have any difficulties ask your husband to help (when he’s not busy of course.) On politics, things continue to go well for Johnson... |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2022 13:35:35 GMT
Somerjohn "Well, we have a reasonable selection of RoC folk posting here." I may have missed one or two but I think there are four or five of us. Me, colin , mercian & tw. Maybe tancred , not sure. The rest are very much on the left by varying degrees. And me. |
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Post by robert on Jan 11, 2022 13:42:18 GMT
Somerjohn "Well, we have a reasonable selection of RoC folk posting here." I may have missed one or two but I think there are four or five of us. Me, colin , mercian & tw. Maybe tancred , not sure. The rest are very much on the left by varying degrees. And me. Yeah, and the Pope's Jewish.😂😂 |
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Post by steamdrivenandy on Jan 11, 2022 13:42:19 GMT
Somerjohn "Well, we have a reasonable selection of RoC folk posting here." I may have missed one or two but I think there are four or five of us. Me, colin , mercian & tw. Maybe tancred , not sure. The rest are very much on the left by varying degrees. And me. IIRC there are some folk on here who do seem to admit to a number of different degrees, so well called SJ. |
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oldnat
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Extremist - Undermining the UK state and its institutions
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Post by oldnat on Jan 11, 2022 13:50:59 GMT
SNP closing Scotland at Christmas has been vastly unpopular north of the border Evidence for that? |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2022 13:58:40 GMT
domjg @"I just can't understand how anyone thought they could and/or should get away with this." Oh I can-complete isolation from the world outside Westminster. The Civil Service -at that level-live in a cocoon imo. If the PM is also guilty of that charge, there is no excuse I can think of. And the sight of the poor Paymaster General , stood on a empty deck, trying to make a case for wait and see rather indicates that Tory backbenchers have reached their own conclusion. If that is the case -they need to do something about it.
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Post by tancred on Jan 11, 2022 14:05:19 GMT
I have never heard that seriously suggested. He certainly did not drink on the scale of Churchill. Had Labour been re-elected in 1970 , it is likely that he would have retired circa 1973 - probably being succeeded by Roy Jenkins. Wilson was definitely a drinker, probably not so much in his youth but in middle age yes. He was also increasingly finding it difficult to cope with the busy schedule of being PM, with full days of meetings, frequent travel and having to cope with demanding interviews. He was an academic by nature, undynamic as a personality and lacking the energy needed to drive his colleagues forward in the government. |
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Post by steve on Jan 11, 2022 14:15:54 GMT
robert There were plenty of people at my local Labour party constituency meetings who insisted I was a red Tory so I to claim to be Spartacus. Maybe the absence of right wing commentary comes from the inability to defend the indefensible given that our current roc contributors don't seem to be completely detached from reality. I think the relative absence of contributions from the tw collective and the absence of some of our most prolific participants in ukpr have shifted the balance somewhat. But I like to think it's that reason has prevailed and the unreasonable don't want to join in.
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Post by ladyvalerie on Jan 11, 2022 14:19:02 GMT
Do people remember Rob Sheffield’s law.?
The number of people of a particular political persuasion posting on UKPR is in accordance with how their party is doing in the polls.
When I came across this site in 2009 , when polls predicted Cameron would win a handsome majority, the only LOCs posting were Alec and Jim Jam.
I thought, at first, UKPR was an off-shoot of the Conservative Party with Roly-Poly at the helm. 😀
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steve
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Post by steve on Jan 11, 2022 14:20:51 GMT
oldnat Given that the Tories in Scotland had their lowest poll result since 2015 it does seem a tad unlikely. As you might expect I think the additional restrictions were largely devoid of benefit and undeniably damaged business but I also accept this as yet doesn't appear to be the general public perception.
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steve
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Post by steve on Jan 11, 2022 14:23:45 GMT
ladyvalerie I was posting under a different name until Anthony banned me for years for not being sufficiently nice about Tories.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2022 14:24:51 GMT
*robert There were plenty of people at my local Labour party constituency meetings who insisted I was a red Tory so I to claim to be Spartacus. Maybe the absence of right wing commentary comes from the inability to defend the indefensible given that our current roc contributors don't seem to be completely detached from reality. I think the relative absence of contributions from the tw collective and the absence of some of our most prolific participants in ukpr have shifted the balance somewhat. But I like to think it's that reason has prevailed and the unreasonable don't want to join in. I don't think its any different on LOC on UKPR to be honest. In the Corbyn era , they either welcomed him with open arms or tried to rationalise the need for him. As his star faded , the muted criticism started-and some just stopped posting- returning when the embarassment had gone. If you are politically attuned, with a preference ( and I don't even mean party membership necessarily) -hope springs eternal . Until it fades. If there were never changes of heart there would never be a different government. |
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Post by graham on Jan 11, 2022 14:28:17 GMT
I have never heard that seriously suggested. He certainly did not drink on the scale of Churchill. Had Labour been re-elected in 1970 , it is likely that he would have retired circa 1973 - probably being succeeded by Roy Jenkins. Wilson was definitely a drinker, probably not so much in his youth but in middle age yes. He was also increasingly finding it difficult to cope with the busy schedule of being PM, with full days of meetings, frequent travel and having to cope with demanding interviews. He was an academic by nature, undynamic as a personality and lacking the energy needed to drive his colleagues forward in the government. I am unaware of a single instance of Wilson being worse for alcohol in the Commons - nothing even remotely comparable to Churchill. ' Mr Churchill you are decidedly drunk' comes to mind. I have heard that Thatcher liked a drink. |
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Post by hireton on Jan 11, 2022 14:33:55 GMT
Somerjohn "Well, we have a reasonable selection of RoC folk posting here." I may have missed one or two but I think there are four or five of us. Me, colin , mercian & tw. Maybe tancred , not sure. The rest are very much on the left by varying degrees. You have forgotten Turk, the Dorset Tory Party in exile in Houston. And I believe Bantams at least flirts with the roc. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2022 14:43:46 GMT
ladyvalerie I was posting under a different name until Anthony banned me for years for not being sufficiently nice about Tories. You always come across as very politically neutral to me Steve. |
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Post by mercian on Jan 11, 2022 14:46:44 GMT
Perhaps getting rid of the statue will remind people of the real history he was involved in. Out of sight, out of mind. I should think that removing the statue (and renaming various institutions) will result in him being largely forgotten. Whereas a plaque attached to the statue explaining both positive and negative aspects of the man would be a better reminder. Anyway, I think the subject has been done to death now. I don't want to turn into Danny and write lengthy repetitive essays several times a day on this (or any) subject. |
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Post by James E on Jan 11, 2022 14:49:43 GMT
This poll was released a couple of hours ago: Westminster Voting Intention: LAB: 37% (=) CON: 33% (+1) LDM: 11% (-2) GRN: 5% (=) SNP: 4% (=) Via @savantacomres , 7-9 Jan* Changes w/ 17-19 Dec. *Fieldwork pre-whatever we're calling this one. BYOB-Gate? So right in line with the 4 other pols we've had so far this year. Does anyone think that the main parties will be level by March?  |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2022 14:55:22 GMT
Yeah, and the Pope's Jewish.😂😂 I’m a Rees-Mogg man myself - the sort of leader the country needs in the 21st century, but I believe the pope is agnostic - a very open-minded bloke. |
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Post by tancred on Jan 11, 2022 14:57:43 GMT
This poll was released a couple of hours ago: Westminster Voting Intention: LAB: 37% (=) CON: 33% (+1) LDM: 11% (-2) GRN: 5% (=) SNP: 4% (=) Via @savantacomres , 7-9 Jan* Changes w/ 17-19 Dec. *Fieldwork pre-whatever we're calling this one. BYOB-Gate? So right in line with the 4 other pols we've had so far this year. Does anyone think that the main parties will be level by March?  Less than 40% for Labour is bad news for them. |
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Post by moosepoll on Jan 11, 2022 15:04:48 GMT
SNP closing Scotland at Christmas has been vastly unpopular north of the border Evidence for that? Nothing substantial just conversations from a few friends I have. Genuine frustration that Sturgeon acted to soon to close things down, especially given that there is now no furlough option. Several people I know struggling because of it. I do stand corrected however I should be careful in my word selection. Should have stated the source of my statement. |
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Post by jimjam on Jan 11, 2022 15:05:05 GMT
James ''Does anyone think that the main parties will be level by March? '' You are naughty. |
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Post by graham on Jan 11, 2022 15:06:01 GMT
This poll was released a couple of hours ago: Westminster Voting Intention: LAB: 37% (=) CON: 33% (+1) LDM: 11% (-2) GRN: 5% (=) SNP: 4% (=) Via @savantacomres , 7-9 Jan* Changes w/ 17-19 Dec. *Fieldwork pre-whatever we're calling this one. BYOB-Gate? So right in line with the 4 other pols we've had so far this year. Does anyone think that the main parties will be level by March? Less than 40% for Labour is bad news for them. Comres provides UK data - so GB equivalent would be Lab 38 Con 34. Loss of Scotland has cost Labour 2% in terms of GB vote share. In 2005 Blair only managed 36% including Scotland. |
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Post by moosepoll on Jan 11, 2022 15:06:55 GMT
Nothing substantial just conversations from a few friends I have. Genuine frustration that Sturgeon acted to soon to close things down, especially given that there is now no furlough option. Several people I know struggling because of it. I do stand corrected however I should be careful in my word selection. Should have stated the source of my statement. Labour will never get 40 without Scotland, or unless there is a major crisis. Inflation could spark one, dread to think what happens if the bank of England are forced to raise interest rates to 5% again to curb it. If that happens the housing market could finally go pop. |
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Post by lululemonmustdobetter on Jan 11, 2022 15:07:32 GMT
Ok so I'm having a very slow work day today and decided to look into the political leanings of posters. Looking at people's posts, posts they like, name selection etc I came up with the following:
For the 137 members there is only sufficient information to come to a view on political affiliation for 54 members.
Tory leaning: 16%
LD leaning: 14%
SNP leaning: 7%
Lab leaning: 31%
ABT: 20%
Mavericks: 12%
Primarily based on name selection, 5% of members are female.
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Post by steamdrivenandy on Jan 11, 2022 15:10:24 GMT
I'm wondering if it is at all surprising that core Con support is holding in the face of recent poor publicity.
Surely, at its core, an ROC philosophy is less sympathetic, less caring, more about satisfying individual aspirations than the population's needs.
So whilst Johnson's behaviour horrifies LOC because they understand and feel the hurt caused to those who obeyed the impositions and lost loved ones, the ROC don't find it as reprehensible and are more able to shrug their shoulders about it.
The problem for Con is at the margin where Tory Lite lives, they may not be so convinced, less hard hearted, not steeled to the fray. They may go DNV or even fall back over to the left of the centre line.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2022 15:13:08 GMT
James ''Does anyone think that the main parties will be level by March? '' You are naughty. You are usually so cautious. I realise there is blood in the water just now-but do you think Turk's prediction is completely beyond credibility. ? |
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Post by mercian on Jan 11, 2022 15:17:35 GMT
I'm wondering if it is at all surprising that core Con support is holding in the face of recent poor publicity. Surely, at its core, an ROC philosophy is less sympathetic, less caring, more about satisfying individual aspirations than the population's needs. So whilst Johnson's behaviour horrifies LOC because they understand and feel the hurt caused to those who obeyed the impositions and lost loved ones, the ROC don't find it as reprehensible and are more able to shrug their shoulders about it. The problem for Con is at the margin where Tory Lite lives, they may not be so convinced, less hard hearted, not steeled to the fray. They may go DNV or even fall back over to the left of the centre line. The problem with this government is that they aren't grinding the faces of the poor hard enough 🤣 |
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