pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
Posts: 8,576
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Post by pjw1961 on Nov 18, 2024 16:34:39 GMT
The problem of the left is they want the world of the media in all it forms to be one big echo chamber of there views, any other view must be treated with abuse . You do talk some rubbish. An increasingly authoritarian right is the dominant political movement at the moment and it is the one dishing out vile abuse. The left, whether you mean liberal, social democratic or socialist varieties, is badly in retreat pretty much everywhere. |
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Nov 18, 2024 17:13:04 GMT
steve I do wonder how Latinos who voted for Trump are going to feel if and when some of their undocumented nearest and dearest start being rounded up. Their 'gut' (brains are so 20th century..) told them he wouldn't really do what he said.. I even read a quote from an undocumented migrant in the US saying that he loves Trump and would have voted for him if he could. To quote, he said "I know he could deport me anytime but even then I would still love him" Weird and to me a disturbing insight into how easily people can be persuaded against their clear interests by a cult of personality. Trump seems to do something strange to certain people. I watched Ruby Wax's documentary about him that was made in the nineties. It showed crowds of people, many of whom were clearly not in great shape, idolising him like a rock star when he visited one of his Atlantic City casinos. One guy said something along the lines that he had lost thousands to Trump over the years but he still adored him. This was nearly 30 years ago.
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Post by EmCat on Nov 18, 2024 17:15:15 GMT
In take people at their word news. It transpires that the rapist maniac president elect does actually intend to be a dictator from day one. deport all undocumented migrants ( who knows where to). To get this into perspective there are around 12 million undocumented migrants in the U.S. it's not explained how the resources to actually transfer people are to be provided, where they are to be detained pending deportation or how you get receiving countries to accept people For Trump, everything is transactional. Find the right sum of money, and people will agree to pretty much anything. (at least, so he thinks) Assuming 1,000 days to implement their plan, then that means 12,000 people per day. Or 48 airliners full (Being 787 / Airbus A350 sized). Spread it across say a dozen cities, and that's 4 flights per city per day. So, get Proud Boys or Oathkeepers or any of the cosplay militia to round up neighbourhoods (doesn't matter if most of them were born in the USA - this is logistics, not logic), and 5 bus loads of people taken to an airport, loaded on a flight to somewhere easily swayed by money (Haiti, for example, or perhaps some Central American country), and then literally turfed off the plane and onto the tarmac on arrival. No need to bother with holding facilities when it would be house to bus to airport to plane to foreign tarmac. Processing these people becomes someone else's problem (as Trump sees it). And, given his track record of not paying his bills, Trump could even promise $x per person, and then not get round to handing over the dosh. That would indeed be dictator on day one. the question is: Would any of the moderate Republicans dissent, or would they reckon they were in too deep to back down (particularly if they thought they and their families might be on a future flight). Since they didn't vote to impeach Trump on either occasion, then dissent from congress seems to be a forlorn hope. |
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steve
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Post by steve on Nov 18, 2024 17:26:23 GMT
"So, get Proud Boys or Oathkeepers or any of the cosplay militia to round up neighbourhoods"
There are more firearms in circulation in the U.S. than people that should be fun to watch😱
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Post by colin on Nov 18, 2024 17:33:55 GMT
The left, whether you mean liberal, social democratic or socialist varieties, is badly in retreat pretty much everywhere. What do you attribute that to , and why do you think UK seems to be an exception currently ? |
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steve
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Post by steve on Nov 18, 2024 17:39:46 GMT
pjw1961 To be part of the right wing mind set you have to buy into the whole thing no dissent is acceptable you can't hold liberal views and be part of these groups they must comply in everything they do and everything they say . For those who hold right wing views who want to participate in progressive groups , that's fine you're welcome, the only rule for you in respect of how others in the group choose to live their lives is mind your own business.
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Post by lens on Nov 18, 2024 17:54:02 GMT
I mused at the time that Trump's solution might be to enable a faster end to the war by setting Ukraine free to use US weapons more widely, so it will be interesting to see whether there is any involvement of Trump in this decision. To me, it looks likely. ................Early indications seem to point the opposite - www.lbc.co.uk/news/donald-trump-jr-accuses-joe-biden-start-wwiii-ukraine-missiles/But let's wait and see........ Elsewhere, continuing speculation (with strong evidence) that Russian military production is hitting some serious problems, with many analysts saying that the second half of 2025 looks very difficult for them. The scale of the issues are significant. It was reported in Russia recently that one of Moscow's major film studios was donating it's entire stock of WW2 tanks to the army for the war effort. These aren't the actions you see in an advanced nation with a thriving military industrial base. Russia is falling apart, and if only Biden had exposed Putin's red lines two years ago, this could all have been over well before Trump takes office again. That may be true, but it's also the case that Ukraine is having many problems themselves - not least the damage Russia is doing to their energy infrastructure. Even if the west is shoring up Ukraine as far as weapons and ammunition go, the damage being done to the country is unsustainable in the long term. But most of all, it's the human factor. I've heard first hand that those now being trained for the army are far from the quality of the troops that Ukraine could call on in the first year of the war. Those reports back up stories in the media such as : www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/10/21/why-is-ukraines-army-facing-a-desertion-crisis . (As just one point, conscription is now applicable to men between the ages of 25-60! Desertion and draft dodging are rife.) Yes, Russia's army may have many problems of its own, but does have the advantage of size and a greater population to call on. There are also the stories of such as North Korean troops being deployed, and whatever happens with weaponry, I don't think anyone seriously expects any western country to send troops to fight in Ukraine? (Advisers behind the lines, maybe - front line troops, no.) Long term, it is in both the interests of both Russia and Ukraine to end as soon as possible - just think of the post war problems the two world wars caused in the UK with demobbed troops scarred for life by their experiences, physical and mental. And more recently the problems suffered by Vietnam vets? And to me, the danger is that the use of these weapons will only serve to lengthen the war - prolong a stalemate - and make any eventual peace harder. I've already speculated that Trumps move when he takes office may be to indicate to Putin that he wants the war to end - but not at any price. Maybe not with anything seen as total capitulation by Ukraine. Maybe an offer to Putin that if he makes a few key concessions, Trump will effectively force Ukraine to go along due to the threat of having supplies cut off. And hope Putin will agree. But the danger is that a move such as authorising the use of longer range weapons will enrage Putin to the extent that he decides to call Trumps bluff. And then what? Will Trump still go ahead with cutting off supplies, despite no concessions from Moscow? Or be seen to have failed in his promise to bring the war to an end and keep on supplying Ukraine? |
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Post by colin on Nov 18, 2024 18:06:04 GMT
For those who hold right wing views who want to participate in progressive groups , that's fine you're welcome, the only rule for you in respect of how others in the group choose to live their lives is mind your own business. Which "progressive groups" do you mean as a matter of interest. ? Its to be welcomed that UKPR2 is open to all political opinions and criticisms of them. .  |
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Post by jib on Nov 18, 2024 18:14:31 GMT
For those who hold right wing views who want to participate in progressive groups , that's fine you're welcome, the only rule for you in respect of how others in the group choose to live their lives is mind your own business. Which "progressive groups" do you mean as a matter of interest. ? Its to be welcomed that UKPR2 is open to all political opinions and criticisms of them. . needs to come out of that box and educate us all on progressive political views. |
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Post by jib on Nov 18, 2024 18:18:45 GMT
The Telegraph reports that Germany is reluctant to follow in Joe Biden's wake.
"Olaf Scholz is still refusing to send Germany’s long-range Taurus missiles to Ukraine, despite the US allowing Kyiv limited use of its Atacms missiles for strikes in Russia.
The German chancellor told a press conference at the G20 summit in Brazil on Monday that it was only possible for Ukraine to use Taurus missiles if “we take joint responsibility for target control”. "
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
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A step on the way toward the demise of the liberal elite? Or just a blip…
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Nov 18, 2024 18:18:52 GMT
In take people at their word news. It transpires that the rapist maniac president elect does actually intend to be a dictator from day one. deport all undocumented migrants ( who knows where to). To get this into perspective there are around 12 million undocumented migrants in the U.S. it's not explained how the resources to actually transfer people are to be provided, where they are to be detained pending deportation or how you get receiving countries to accept people For Trump, everything is transactional. Find the right sum of money, and people will agree to pretty much anything. (at least, so he thinks) Assuming 1,000 days to implement their plan, then that means 12,000 people per day. Or 48 airliners full (Being 787 / Airbus A350 sized). Spread it across say a dozen cities, and that's 4 flights per city per day. Is it possible that the plan could be about as serious as building the wall? |
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