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Post by jib on Nov 4, 2024 17:30:18 GMT
I assume jib will be along in a minute to say that the increase in tuition fees will for at least the next 15 years mean the public will not trust Labour. He can feature pictures of Keir Starmer and Rachel Reeves alongside those from his memory chest of Clegg and Alexander. Forever in your thoughts. How sweet. I prefer jen |
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steve
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Post by steve on Nov 4, 2024 17:52:34 GMT
Thoughts and prayers  |
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
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Post by pjw1961 on Nov 4, 2024 18:02:00 GMT
Here is a much better piece by Nasrine Malik on why Badenoch's leadership of the Tory party does not represent a success for Black British people So. my view is that , like Malik, your brief characterisations of what she said don't fully represent her words -or meaning. But I hasten to add that for such a bright intelligent and articulate person, she often seems too reluctant to explain fully what she means in interviews , leaving behind a brief bullet point or two to be picked apart by all and sundry. This weekends tv interviews were symptomatic with her comments on the lockdown parties. She didn't explain why she believed that the covid restrictions should not have been mandatory. (And the interviewer should have reminded her that the rest of the population accepted that they were !.) She is a different sort of politician i think. Not given to looking for the triangulated reply to a question. She will upset many for sure , and if you're like Malik with a committed political belief she will be the gift that keeps giving. Apologies for deleting most of your post for reasons of length, but I just wanted to commend the excellence of it, which demonstrates that it is possible to have a discussion across partisan lines without descending to name calling. Quoting Badenoch's views is very useful. I find them highly questionable, but as I say I don't doubt her sincerity. |
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Nov 4, 2024 18:12:10 GMT
Is it true Labour are set to raise tuition fees today. I can’t believe after all Starmer has said about reducing fees in opposition he would u turn and raise them. I suspect it’s just a newspaper story rather than fact to be fair. Universities are heading for bankruptcy. How is government to increase their funding? Fees have ben frozen for too long, exactly because the conservative government was afraid of being unpopular. |
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Nov 4, 2024 18:13:18 GMT
We need to revert to the system of finance which operated when Starmer was himself a student in the early 1980s. Which was that only half as many people went to university, so they could be better funded on less money. Though its very arguable too many people are currently going to univeristy, so the money is being wasted. |
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Post by jib on Nov 4, 2024 18:20:51 GMT
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Nov 4, 2024 18:34:39 GMT
A few stats on private schools that show why it is a huge entrenchment of social privilege for those that get it and a massive waste of human potential for everyone else: - About 5.9% of school-age children in the UK attend private schools, which is about 620,000 children in over 2,500 schools. It is lower in Scotland (4%), Wales (2%) and Northern Ireland (1%) and highest in London (13%). - However, 15% of UK spend on education occurs in private schools. - One in every 16 pupils goes to a private school but one in every seven teachers works at a private school - Over 50% of GCSE entries from independent schools are awarded a grade A/A*, compared to the national average of about 20%. - In 2023 31.4% of Oxford University students came from private schools, meaning they are over represented by 5 times. Private schools are a massive scam to ensure the perpetuation of a self-selecting financial elite. Well, once upon a time the state decided to create grammar schools which would give as good an education as the private schools. Still on the cheap, but nonetheless we got a whole batch of senior politicians educated at grammars instead of privately. Most of the research on social privilege says that these schools only contribute a small amount to the fact children of rich and powerful people themselves are much more likely to become rich and powerful. If you want to deny the rich the right to pass on their privilege to their children you would have to deprive them of their money, their social contacts, their elite society and their jobs. We may have nearly abolished hereditary ruling lords, but we most certainly have not abolished the ruling elite. And be assured, Starmer is part of it. Director of public prosecutions now PM, like seriously, labour is not the party of the working masses. However on another front. If all private schools were abolished it would not mean those resources enjoyed by private school pupils will transfer to the state system. The state will not suddenly increase its funding to private schools levels, which is the bottom line why the education is better. It also helps private school kids are highly motivated to learn, not only are they from generally more formally obedient classes, but their parents will have impressed them both with the importance of learning, and with the fact a huge amount of money is being spent on them so they had better not waste it. Whereas many state kids simply do not want to be there and their parents dont care either. Parents in private schools are self selecting that they want their kids to get as good an education as possible. On another front, you seem upset that private education is so much better. But if there was no private education, how could you get upset? You would not be aware to what degree state schools could be far, far better were we willing to spend more. Teachers in private schools are not the same as in state ones. The same was true of grammars, there is a more studious and probably actually less competent sort of teacher who can do well with more obediant kids, but who wuld utterly fail in a state school. These people will simply cease being teachers and will not provide that good education for anyone. And then, just who would benefit from abolishing the 6% best schools in the country? The answer of course is no one. Obviously the current private kids aould have to make do with state education. But they would redistribute to the very best of the state schools. Displacing poorer kids to worse schools. The net result would be state kids getting a worse education too. Not least because the budget would have to be stretched to include those 6% extra kids to be educated...less money for everyone. Which all seems to me cutting off your own nose to spite your face. Its still true every privately educated child is saving the state £10,000 a year. |
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Post by turk on Nov 4, 2024 18:45:22 GMT
It seems to me that Badenochs skin colour was irrelevant when she was elected by the Tory membership ,they simply took the view that she had a better chance in putting forward Tory policy than the other candidate.
The only people who have a problem with a black female being elected political leader of the Tory party divide into two categories which can overlap. The first is there simply Racist and or misogynists. Secondly is that group of people mainly black on the left who have a set idea about how a black people should behave and feel about politics and any black person who steps out of that ideal has to be a castigated in a very derogatory way much like Butler did.
People like Butler who are little more than racists themselves have the dangerous idea that every black person must fit into the same box as them, they simply cannot understand why any black person doesn’t think like them or act like them and this arrogance makes them feel free to post or make racist remarks about other black people who take a different view to them.
Starmer who made the claim that racism had been eradicated in the Labour Party should have the courage of his convictions and remove the whip from Butler immediately, however despite his previous actions whilst in opposition in removing the whip from a Labour MP’s making or posting racist remarks , it seems that in power and not trying to make a political point against Tory inaction regard complaints against there MP’s, Starmer has developed a tin ear to complaints against his party members when it comes to racist remarks.
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Post by leftieliberal on Nov 4, 2024 18:45:47 GMT
More about environmental failings in EU agricultureThe EU urgently needs to staunch the greenhouse gases and pollutants coming out of its farms – dirtying the land, air and water – if it is to meet its goals to protect nature and stop the planet from heating. But in the last year, EU efforts to green the agriculture sector have sparked furious protests from farmers, with the support of some far-right groups. The tensions have led politicians to water down some green policies and ditch others entirely.Who's wearing the rose-tinted spectacles now somerjohn?
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steve
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Post by steve on Nov 4, 2024 18:49:04 GMT
Details of one of the last polls published by Marist today.
And it's good news for Harris.
"U.S. Presidential Contest, November 2024
Harris +4 Points Against Trump Nationally
In this final, national NPR/PBS News/Marist Poll before Election Day, Vice President Kamala Harris edges former President Donald Trump among likely voters nationally including those who are undecided yet leaning toward a candidate. While Trump maintains his lead over Harris among white voters, Harris’ support among these voters outpaces what President Biden achieved four years ago. Harris has also made inroads among men, cutting Trump’s once double-digit lead down to single digits among this voting group. While Harris still leads Trump among women, her advantage has also narrowed. The gender gap which was 34 points one month ago is now 15 points.
U.S. Presidential Contest Nationally
In November´s election for president are you supporting: [If undecided: If you had to decide today, are you leaning more towards]:
NPR/PBS News/Marist Poll National Likely Voters: n=1,297 MOE +/- 3.5 percentage points. Totals may not add to 100% due to rounding.
Harris (51%) is +4 points against Trump (47%) among likely voters nationally. Two percent support another party’s candidate. Two points separated Harris (50%) and Trump (48%) in the NPR/PBS News/Marist Poll in early October. Among likely voters with a candidate preference for President, 87% strongly support their choice of candidate.
Trump (51%) has a slight lead against Harris (46%), among independents, comparable to what the two candidates received in early October.
55% of likely voters report they have already voted, and Harris receives 56% support among those who say they have done so. Trump (53%) has majority support among those who say they have yet to vote.
Harris (63%) leads Trump (34%) by 29 points among non-white voters, up from the 21-point lead she had in early October. Trump (54%) is ahead of Harris (45%) by 9 points among white voters, similar to the 8-point lead he had last month.
Gen Z and Millennials (56%) and Baby Boomers (55%) break for Harris. Trump (53%) receives majority support among the Silent/Greatest Generation. Members of Gen X divide (51% for Trump to 48% for Harris).
The gender gap nationally has been cut by more than half. A 15-point gender gap now exists compared with 34 points in early October. Harris (47%) has carved into Trump's advantage (51%) among men. Now, only 4 points separate the two among these voters. Trump previously had a 16-point advantage among men. While Harris (55%) maintains a double-digit lead over Trump (44%) among women, her lead has decreased from 18 points. "
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Nov 4, 2024 19:04:37 GMT
More about environmental failings in EU agricultureThe EU urgently needs to staunch the greenhouse gases and pollutants coming out of its farms – dirtying the land, air and water – if it is to meet its goals to protect nature and stop the planet from heating. But in the last year, EU efforts to green the agriculture sector have sparked furious protests from farmers, with the support of some far-right groups. The tensions have led politicians to water down some green policies and ditch others entirely.Who's wearing the rose-tinted spectacles now somerjohn? What makes you think the UK is doing better rather than worse? |
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Post by Rafwan on Nov 4, 2024 19:14:08 GMT
I have sympathy for that, in that I also benefited from having a grant. However, you do have to recognise that a much smaller proportion of people got degrees in those days. That is the problem that would have to be solved. To gain a place on a degree course in that era applicants needed to demonstrate serious academic ability . Since the early 1990s that has gradually ceased to be the case - with the result that we now have many students who by the standards of earlier decades are not very academic - indeed many would likely have left school after O Levels back in the 50s, 60s & 70s. By lowering standards of entry the system has effectively been ruined for everybody as reflected in the devaluation of degrees as qualifications. The less academic lose out in paricular - by incurring significant debt for a doubtful return. I don’t think that is right at all. I have no doubt whatsoever that the great majority of people have the intellectual capacity to work at degree level. And it is not just in their interests but our collective interests that they should be encouraged and enabled to do so. Educational ideas and teaching/learning methods have improved vastly since the seventies as have technologies and access to knowledge. And it is perhaps the last point that is most important. Now that the world’s knowledge is available at most people’s fingertips, it is becoming vitally important that people develop the critical skills and understanding that enable them to use it properly and effectively. |
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Post by somerjohn on Nov 4, 2024 19:16:36 GMT
LeftieLiberal: "Who's wearing the rose-tinted spectacles now somerjohn?"
As I've said before, I'm a realist rather than a wearer of rose-tinted spectacles.
Politics is the art of the possible. Even more so in EU politics than national politics, because action has to be built on majority support. It simply isn't possible to railroad through necessary but difficult policies unless majority support can be marshalled. The corollary is that acquiescence can sometimes be achieved from nations which, left to their own devices, would pursue more destructive, self-interested policies. As the UK is now demonstrating.
So the EU can work hard to create and implement sound environmental policies. There is a long list of achievements in that regard. But it can't push water uphill. In the final analysis, it can only do what can garner support. That's the nature of democracy; of being a collaborative venture that depends on consent.
Perhaps you'd prefer an all-powerful superstate?
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Post by mark61 on Nov 4, 2024 19:46:15 GMT
Mercian, let me prompt your memory, Frank Hester was the major Tory Donor who said that looking at Dianne Abbot makes you 'want to hate all Black People and that she should be shot' this came to light shortly before the last GE. Despite this The Conservative Party including The then Prime Minister Sunak, the now leader Badenoch and the failed candidate Cleverly and former Chancellor Kwarteng or indeed any of their Cabinet colleagues did not recommend cutting ties with the odious Hester or suggest returning the donation. Indeed the Party went on to trouser another £5million from him during the Election Campaign. You may not be aware that Dianne Abbot receives more hate mail, racist and misogynist abuse Online and directly than any other MP. Can you explain what turns repeating a racist trope about Black People all looking the same into a Joke, is it the laughing Emoji? Thanks for the information about Hester. Regarding the joke, it was something that used to be said and I was repeating it to mock that attitude and perhaps the leftie stereotype of how I think. The laughing emoji was to help the humourless. Mercian, if you don't want People to think you think that sort of thing the best course of action is to stop saying it. I have had regrettably a long experience of Some right wing people saying Racist, sexist or homophobic statements with a nod and a wink to their mates with a 'you can't say that sort of thing these days, can you' which is what I mistook your laughing Emoji to be. It put me in mind of an Episode of Top Gear a few years ago,, I think it was when the Presenters were on a Road Trip in Burma, part of the task was to build a temporary Bridge across a river. Clarkson who is something of a Poster boy for the sort of type I describe above concluded the show remarking as a local Person began to cross the Bridge Which listed slightly 'look there is a Slope on the Bridge' this was subject to an offcom investigation. ( he also managed to sneak the N word in to one episode. ) Right wing Humour or what passes for it seems to love to Punch down. |
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Post by hireton on Nov 4, 2024 19:58:10 GMT
Jenrick appointed as Shadow Justice Secretary.
Obviius questions: is it now Tory policy to leave the ECHR or does Jenrick mo longer support the policy he ran on?
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Post by graham on Nov 4, 2024 20:13:04 GMT
To gain a place on a degree course in that era applicants needed to demonstrate serious academic ability . Since the early 1990s that has gradually ceased to be the case - with the result that we now have many students who by the standards of earlier decades are not very academic - indeed many would likely have left school after O Levels back in the 50s, 60s & 70s. By lowering standards of entry the system has effectively been ruined for everybody as reflected in the devaluation of degrees as qualifications. The less academic lose out in paricular - by incurring significant debt for a doubtful return. I don’t think that is right at all. I have no doubt whatsoever that the great majority of people have the intellectual capacity to work at degree level. And it is not just in their interests but our collective interests that they should be encouraged and enabled to do so. Educational ideas and teaching/learning methods have improved vastly since the seventies as have technologies and access to knowledge. And it is perhaps the last point that is most important. Now that the world’s knowledge is available at most people’s fingertips, it is becoming vitally important that people develop the critical skills and understanding that enable them to use it properly and effectively. A Level grades are now massively inflated compared with those awarded until the end of the 1980s under the former Relative Marking system Many students awarded A grades today would have struggled to obtain C grades in the past, whilst those now receiving D and E grades would not have passed the exam at all. Until the late 80s 30% of A Level students failed even to gain a grade E - now the figure is under 2%. Yet these students are still invited on to 'degree' courses - though many are of the Mickey Mouse kind. |
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Post by wb61 on Nov 4, 2024 20:16:06 GMT
I don’t think that is right at all. I have no doubt whatsoever that the great majority of people have the intellectual capacity to work at degree level. And it is not just in their interests but our collective interests that they should be encouraged and enabled to do so. Educational ideas and teaching/learning methods have improved vastly since the seventies as have technologies and access to knowledge. And it is perhaps the last point that is most important. Now that the world’s knowledge is available at most people’s fingertips, it is becoming vitally important that people develop the critical skills and understanding that enable them to use it properly and effectively. A Level grades are now massively inflated compared with those awarded until the end of the 1980s under the former Relative Marking system Many students awarded A grades today would have struggled to obtain C grades in the past, whilst those now receiving D and E grades would not have passed the exam at all. Until the late 80s 30% of A Level students failed even to gain a grade E - now the figure is under 2%. Yet these students are still invited on to 'degree' courses - though many are of the Mickey Mouse kind. you make these assertions with great conviction, may I ask what empirical evidence you have to support them? |
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
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Post by pjw1961 on Nov 4, 2024 20:32:47 GMT
Jenrick appointed as Shadow Justice Secretary. Obviius questions: is it now Tory policy to leave the ECHR or does Jenrick mo longer support the policy he ran on? Also an interesting appointment for someone caught taking bungs to facilitate the granting of planning permission and who had to rescind his own decision as being ""unlawful by reason of apparent bias". |
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Post by shevii on Nov 4, 2024 20:45:28 GMT
I don’t think that is right at all. I have no doubt whatsoever that the great majority of people have the intellectual capacity to work at degree level. And it is not just in their interests but our collective interests that they should be encouraged and enabled to do so. Educational ideas and teaching/learning methods have improved vastly since the seventies as have technologies and access to knowledge. And it is perhaps the last point that is most important. Now that the world’s knowledge is available at most people’s fingertips, it is becoming vitally important that people develop the critical skills and understanding that enable them to use it properly and effectively. A Level grades are now massively inflated compared with those awarded until the end of the 1980s under the former Relative Marking system Many students awarded A grades today would have struggled to obtain C grades in the past, whilst those now receiving D and E grades would not have passed the exam at all. Until the late 80s 30% of A Level students failed even to gain a grade E - now the figure is under 2%. Yet these students are still invited on to 'degree' courses - though many are of the Mickey Mouse kind. I really have no way of knowing but it seems to be that children taking A-Levels do a hell of a lot more work than I did. Might just be the people I know of course and me not bothering with revision and not getting great A-Levels as I was into The Specials and Sham 69 at that age! Maybe the ones really going for it are the ones who get A Stars. I do think you are right about Universities though. I take on board that everyone should get the best education they can but that needs to start at Primary school and there should be other alternatives to University that is less expensive and more vocational. Trouble is a lot of employers won't look at you unless you have a degree which is very different from when I was starting my first job. |
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Nov 4, 2024 21:03:17 GMT
. And it is perhaps the last point that is most important. Now that the world’s knowledge is available at most people’s fingertips, it is becoming vitally important that people develop the critical skills and understanding that enable them to use it properly and effectively. cant help wondering why kids arent taught critical thinking at school? Because the -free- state schools are so bad tbey need to go through private education afterwards? What a waste of time state schools have become! |
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Post by turk on Nov 4, 2024 21:12:07 GMT
Pow 1961
Wow did you miss the bungs Starmer and some of his cabinet received don’t remember any complaints from you about that . Or does the word bung only imply to those on the right. Oh yeah a bung is alright if you declare it forgot about that. Bit like a con man getting money from someone then before hie’s caught he goes to the police and admits it and the copper says that’s all right then off you go nothing to see here.
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Nov 4, 2024 21:14:11 GMT
I really have no way of knowing but it seems to be that children taking A-Levels do a hell of a lot more work than I did. if they arent as clever as in previous years it would explain why they have to work harder. |
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Post by nickpoole on Nov 4, 2024 21:20:56 GMT
Watching BBC - journalist of Puerto Rico descent reckons the PR vote is massively mobilised against Trump after the comedian disrespected them
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Post by graham on Nov 4, 2024 21:21:50 GMT
A Level grades are now massively inflated compared with those awarded until the end of the 1980s under the former Relative Marking system Many students awarded A grades today would have struggled to obtain C grades in the past, whilst those now receiving D and E grades would not have passed the exam at all. Until the late 80s 30% of A Level students failed even to gain a grade E - now the figure is under 2%. Yet these students are still invited on to 'degree' courses - though many are of the Mickey Mouse kind. you make these assertions with great conviction, may I ask what empirical evidence you have to support them? Under the Relative Marking system by which A levels were assessed until the late 1980s only the top 10% for a given exam were awarded A grades with a further 15% receiving B grades - ie only the top 25% were given A or B grades. Beyond that, only the top 70% passed the A Level at all - ie 30% failed to gain even an E grade and were awarded either just an O Level pass or failed outright. This was readily known to those teaching the A Levels. In the late 1980s we moved to the system of Absolute Marking which continues to this day. Theoretically everybody sitting the exam can now obtain an A or A* grade. In general, circa 27% manage to do this with a further 20% - 25% gaining B grades. Fewer than 2% of pupils fail to obtain a grade E pass. Were the earlier system still in operation , this could not have happened - ie less than 40% of those now given A or A* grades would have received them and most of those given D and E grades would have not obtained an A Level pass at all.
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Nov 4, 2024 21:24:21 GMT
Badenoch’s Shadow Cabinet choices
- A Shadow Justice Secretary who wants to quit the ECHR
- A Shadow Chancellor who wants to take away maternity rights
- A Shadow Foreign Secretary who was sacked for holding secret meetings with a foreign government
All going swimmingly
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Post by nickpoole on Nov 4, 2024 21:43:23 GMT
Badenoch’s Shadow Cabinet choices - A Shadow Justice Secretary who wants to quit the ECHR - A Shadow Chancellor who wants to take away maternity rights - A Shadow Foreign Secretary who was sacked for holding secret meetings with a foreign government All going swimmingly Unelectable |
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Post by jib on Nov 4, 2024 22:06:31 GMT
Badenoch’s Shadow Cabinet choices - A Shadow Justice Secretary who wants to quit the ECHR - A Shadow Chancellor who wants to take away maternity rights - A Shadow Foreign Secretary who was sacked for holding secret meetings with a foreign government All going swimmingly Unelectable Let's wait and see how the Tory ship sails, but I suspect it's going to be a long struggle for them trying to dance their political jig to two tunes (Reform Vs Moderate politics). |
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Post by mark61 on Nov 4, 2024 22:08:10 GMT
Rory Stewart convinced Harris will win, Dan Hodges calls it for Trump but wishes it wasn't so. I know we can't transpose European sensibilities to the US polity but the mind boggles that a substantial minority of Women seem to be prepared to vote for Trump. Unless this is a clear win for Harris Trump will not concede and US Democracy may be on the brink.
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Post by alec on Nov 4, 2024 22:14:23 GMT
Interesting to see the pundits predictions start rolling in. Someone yesterday flagged up that John Ralston, noted commentator on Nevada polls, tends to be slightly downbeat about Democrat chances, but he's called every recent presidential election right in that state. Tonight he's saying it's Harris by 0.3%, (gulp!) although he does say this was the hardest race of the lot to call. He thinks Trump is currently up by around 30,000, but that's partly due to eating into their normal election day advantage, and there are lots of votes from Democrat areas still outstanding. Article here - thenevadaindependent.com/article/editor-jon-ralstons-2024-nevada-election-predictionsAnother poll in Iowa puts Trump up 8%, same as in 2020. The poll was from a reputable pollster but sponsored by a right wing campaigner who it has emerged also tried to persuade the polling not to publish or to re-weight to bring the lead up. The polling company refused to agree to this, but it's a glimpse into how parts of the US polling industry works. |
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steve
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Post by steve on Nov 4, 2024 22:16:31 GMT
mark61It was on the brink last time. If as I think we all hope the criminal rapist does lose again this time he doesn't have the influence he was able to apply as incumbent president ,albeit his cult acolytes at congress , governor and Senate level and his christofascist yes men in the supreme court will no doubt do their best to undermine democracy.
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