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Post by Rafwan on May 26, 2024 7:34:25 GMT
@isa My paternal grandfather was born in 1870. Can anyone beat that? My paternal grandfather was born on 28 February 1867. He died about 10 weeks after I was born so I never knew him. 5th August, 1857, Morley, Pownall Fee, Wilmslow. To Thomas, farm labourer and Mary Ann. Died (uraemia) 3rd February, 1933, aged 75, in Stepping Hill hospital, Stockport. I have no idea what he looked like or sounded like, or what sort of man he was. Big hole there. |
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neilj
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Post by neilj on May 26, 2024 7:35:22 GMT
Well Sunak has managed to unite the right...just not in the way he wanted
Dan Hodges of the Daily Mail
'Rishi Sunak’s plan for compulsory national service is the most insane policy proposal ever launched in an election campaign by a major political party'
Tom Harwood GB News
'State mandated volunteering isn’t volunteering at all. It’s conscription. Its illiberal. It’s everything this country stands against'
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Post by hireton on May 26, 2024 7:35:55 GMT
The military element of the Tory National Service "proposal" is capped at 30,000 and limited to non-combat roles ( subject of course to the deliberations of the Royal Commission which will be set up to consider it).
That means that over 95% of 18 year olds would be subject to mandatory community service something currently reserved as a criminal sanction.
In other news Rishi Sunak was Chancellor when funding for the National Citizen Service scheme ( established by Lord Cameron) was cut by two-thirds in a 2022 review of government youth funding.
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Post by moby on May 26, 2024 7:43:13 GMT
Of course some political leaders don't need to do dress up soldier. Here's our old leader Paddy Ashdown , royal marines and Special Boat Service. Aka the real deal. View AttachmentAt least those straps round his thighs are keeping his pants up. |
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Post by barbara on May 26, 2024 8:01:35 GMT
JohnC My paternal grandfather died long before I was born succumbing to injuries he suffered in world war one. My maternal grandfather was born somewhere at some time probably in the 1890's. Being an undocumented child immigrant makes family history complex. He died when I was about six as far as I recall he was quite a charming and funny man with a nice line in magic tricks. So does having two parents who were 'illegitimate' (in the parlance of the day - 1920 and 1925) neither having a father named on the birth certificate and in the case of my mother, keeping the maiden name of her mother and in my father's case, taking the name of some other bloke who my grandmother lived with but never married who was not my dad's dad and who left my gran before my dad was 5. After that both grandmothers lived alone for the rest of their lives in the slums of Manchester so record keeping pretty thin. For added confusion, my paternal granmother lost her mum to cancer when she was 12 and her dad (who was an alcoholic) to suicide in the Manchester Ship Canal when she was 16. She was the eldest of 7 kids. My maternal grandmother's mother also died when she was young and she was brought up by her dad alone. I did some research about 10 years ago when my mum was still alive. Found absolutely nothing on my maternal side but was able to trace my parternal grandmother's family name of Sweeney to 1842 when they came over to Manchester from Ireland to escape the potato famine. I've given up now. I am who I am. |
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
Member
A step on the way toward the demise of the liberal elite? Or just a blip…
Posts: 6,700
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on May 26, 2024 8:01:58 GMT
c-a-r-f-r-e-w Is that Thatcher just before the Tories booted her out? How about this for comparison… |
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neilj
Member
Posts: 6,376
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Post by neilj on May 26, 2024 8:02:13 GMT
Delta poll, no change
Labour lead by twenty-two points in our poll for the Mail on Sunday.
Con 23% (-)
Lab 45% (-)
Lib Dem 9% (-1)
Reform 10% (-2)
SNP 3% (-)
Green 6% (+1)
Other 3% (-)
Fieldwork: 23rd-25th May 2024
Sample: 1,517 GB adults
(Changes from 17th-20th May 2024)
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neilj
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Post by neilj on May 26, 2024 8:05:36 GMT
Changes in the Labour lead in the polls since the election was called:
Techne +3
Opinium -4
YouGov -3
WeThink +2
More in Common +1
Deltapoll no change
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Post by JohnC on May 26, 2024 8:05:39 GMT
JohnC My paternal grandfather died long before I was born succumbing to injuries he suffered in world war one. My maternal grandfather was born somewhere at some time probably in the 1890's. Being an undocumented child immigrant makes family history complex. He died when I was about six as far as I recall he was quite a charming and funny man with a nice line in magic tricks. I've only recently identified my maternal Grandfather by taking a DNA test. He died at the battle of Passchendaele in August 1917, age 30. He had three other daughters through marriage. I have DNA matches with several half cousins from around where my mother was born in Devon plus one in the US. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2024 8:09:59 GMT
I assume that soppy gurls are not included in the brilliant new National Waste of Time initiative?
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
Posts: 8,572
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Post by pjw1961 on May 26, 2024 8:13:56 GMT
The idea we could actually organise the volunteering and that it then wouldn’t cause more disruption in work places than offer anything positive seems most unlikely to me. (Excuse crap sentence construction) Yes, I was thinking that when the NHS was mentioned as a place to volunteer. The last thing the NHS needs is untrained young people wandering around with nothing to do, even assuming they wanted to be there. There are virtually no roles that can be done safely without extensive induction and training. Daft. |
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Dave
Member
... I'm dreaming dreams, I'm scheming schemes, I'm building castles high ..
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Post by Dave on May 26, 2024 8:14:52 GMT
Barbara - what an amazing post and history. Those last five words of yours - 👍
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Danny
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Post by Danny on May 26, 2024 8:16:21 GMT
I’d never heard of Borsetshire before just now, but now I really want to live there. What? The county of Borcetshire was created not long after WW2. |
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pjw1961
Member
Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
Posts: 8,572
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Post by pjw1961 on May 26, 2024 8:17:55 GMT
This strikes me as a pretend policy for pensioners rather than an actual policy for young people I'm 72 and I decided National Service was the kind of thing people of my dad's age thought was a good idea, mainly to get them to get their hair cut (even my dad thought it was nonsense and he'd be 135 now). Yes there will be some pensioners who like the idea My dad had to do National Service in the early 1950s and hated it. Always said it was a complete waste of time. If he was still around today (he would have been 92) it would not have been a vote winner with him. |
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Danny
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Post by Danny on May 26, 2024 8:18:24 GMT
Says he wants teenagers to volunteer to be soldiers, firemen, all the jobs he isnt willing to pay anyone to do.... |
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pjw1961
Member
Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
Posts: 8,572
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Post by pjw1961 on May 26, 2024 8:25:26 GMT
Has Starmer indicated yet, that Labour will introduce a much better form of National Service than the Conservatives? No. Labour reaction was to describe it as a £2.5bn unfunded spending pledge (which it is - Tories own figure), to go with the £67.5bn in unfunded tax cuts on NI, income tax and inheritance tax that Jeremy Hunt made yesterday. I have a feeling the Tories don't believe they are going to win this. |
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Post by leftieliberal on May 26, 2024 8:31:47 GMT
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pjw1961
Member
Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
Posts: 8,572
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Post by pjw1961 on May 26, 2024 8:33:09 GMT
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patrickbrian
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These things seem small and undistinguishable, like far off mountains turned into clouds
Posts: 316
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Post by patrickbrian on May 26, 2024 8:35:25 GMT
The idea we could actually organise the volunteering and that it then wouldn’t cause more disruption in work places than offer anything positive seems most unlikely to me. (Excuse crap sentence construction) Yes, I was thinking that when the NHS was mentioned as a place to volunteer. The last thing the NHS needs is untrained young people wandering around with nothing to do, even assuming they wanted to be there. There are virtually no roles that can be done safely without extensive induction and training. Daft. Nice to see a bit of sense on this. When I queried the volunteering scheme in COVID I was attacked as having some kind of chip on my shoulder by Colin and others.... Actually I just happen to know a tiny bit about organising volunteers (an invaluable resource), and could see the scheme was never going to achieve much beyond a couple of headlines. This one is completely bonkers though. Older people might have some usable skills, such as driving, cooking, practical skills etc, etc, but eighteen year olds need training. Training is expensive. Not going to happen! On the other hand, hasn't there always been a Tory thing about "Bring back National Service! Sort the young people out! Young people today ...blah blah.."? |
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Danny
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Post by Danny on May 26, 2024 8:36:55 GMT
Turns out the projected cost of the conscription idea is £2.5b (in reality it would be a lot more) will be paid for by closing the levelling up fund Also worth remembering the cost of the pay rise for junior doctors that ministers insist is “simply unaffordable” - £2bn a year... I presume that is setting up costs? If youngsters were to spend any significnt amount of time on national service, this would be instead of doing proper jobs in the real economy. The sort of unfilled jobs we are arranging immigrants to come here and do. So we import immigrants to force our own kids to play soldiers? |
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Post by nickpoole on May 26, 2024 8:42:23 GMT
so National Service
next will be the Death penalty (for paedos, terrorists, traitors ... and commie pinko wokeists)
trains running on time, obviously
new "places to stay" for economic non-contributors?
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Post by EmCat on May 26, 2024 8:45:55 GMT
The 18-24 group has, according to a YouGov poll, only 9% support for the Conservatives. Maybe they are playing some kind of psychological games - disgust that group enough that they won't bother voting at all. However, with the recent polling on intention to vote showing an increase for that age group, it looks more like encouraging them to vote - but for any other party. Perhaps their campaign team really are infiltrators from other political parties, as some have (tongue in cheek) suggested |
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Danny
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Posts: 10,355
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Post by Danny on May 26, 2024 8:52:55 GMT
The last thing the NHS needs is untrained young people wandering around with nothing to do, even assuming they wanted to be there. There are virtually no roles that can be done safely without extensive induction and training. Daft. This is going to apply pretty universally in emergency services, army, anything. Similar issues have been raised in the past when arguing whether benefit claimants should be requird to work for their money. If a jobs worth doing, its worth paying people to learn to do it properly. |
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Post by lens on May 26, 2024 8:56:57 GMT
To anyone who says "Sunak can't do anything", I can only point to him having been able to unite this whole board in saying "what a stupid idea!" on the whole subject of conscription.
Out of interest, is there a single person here who thinks it's a good idea?
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Post by crossbat11 on May 26, 2024 8:58:37 GMT
so National Service next will be the Death penalty (for paedos, terrorists, traitors ... and commie pinko wokeists) trains running on time, obviously new "places to stay" for economic non-contributors? ......and Palace fans. |
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Post by crossbat11 on May 26, 2024 9:01:05 GMT
I’d never heard of Borsetshire before just now, but now I really want to live there. What? The county of Borcetshire was created not long after WW2. There is an important difference between Borsetshire and the actual county, Worcestershire, that gave inspiration to its fictional sister county. Borsetshire have a reasonable middle order and a rather more penetrative opening bowling attack. |
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Danny
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Posts: 10,355
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Post by Danny on May 26, 2024 9:02:03 GMT
R4 just had an advert for celebrations of the anniversary of the D Day landings. Is conscription supposed to remind us of the great military successes brought to us by conservative governments? Together with their already announced unfunded expansion of the military? Helping Ukraine to, er, lose slowly?
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Post by jib on May 26, 2024 9:02:29 GMT
To anyone who says "Sunak can't do anything", I can only point to him having been able to unite this whole board in saying "what a stupid idea!" on the whole subject of conscription. Out of interest, is there a single person here who thinks it's a good idea? |
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Post by crossbat11 on May 26, 2024 9:02:56 GMT
To anyone who says "Sunak can't do anything", I can only point to him having been able to unite this whole board in saying "what a stupid idea!" on the whole subject of conscription. Out of interest, is there a single person here who thinks it's a good idea? Me, on the basis that it's likely another nail in the Tories electoral coffin. |
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
Member
A step on the way toward the demise of the liberal elite? Or just a blip…
Posts: 6,700
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on May 26, 2024 9:03:48 GMT
Barbara - what an amazing post and history. Those last five words of yours - 👍 Bit of an anti-climax tho’, was hoping she might be related to Corbyn |
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