jib
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Post by jib on Jun 12, 2024 18:13:27 GMT
I must say that I thought that Montgomeryshire and Glyndwr could be the last stand of Toryism in Wales. Not now. Craig Williams - you must be a fool.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2024 18:13:55 GMT
Blimey - Rosie (who I have had to let take over sofa duties) can’t even complete an edit without catching “post quick reply” with her little paw (quite big actually)
Anyway, Daisie surely can’t do any worse. She has already offered the advice that I should read my stuff before I send it - something I have resisted previously because I don’t like reading rubbish. Bad enough reading the rest of you.
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Post by lululemonmustdobetter on Jun 12, 2024 18:15:22 GMT
Evening everyone! Looks like there is a general trend in Labour's VI falling by 2-3%, but not to the benefit of the Tories. I'm assuming that this is being driven by previous DKs breaking for other parties than Lab or Con, and perhaps, in some cases, methodology transferring Lab to LD on tactical voting likelihood.
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Post by jen on Jun 12, 2024 18:18:30 GMT
And you think that the increased profits were of no consequence? (or maybe that's just what they told themselves?) And if their religious beliefs were sincere, how on Earth could they become capitalists in the first place?! Not everyone would regard making modest levels of profit level as immoral, although profiteering (exploitation of customers) and profit maximisation through the exploitation of labour would always be. After all, even co-operatives sell their produce at above the cost of production in order to allow the co-operative to be maintained - the profit going to the members of the co-op rather than an owner of capital of course. Our local philanthropic family in Braintree were the Courtauld family. They were Huguenots (French Calvinist refugees from persecution of their faith in that country) and establish textile mills in the town. They got rich themselves in the process, and kept a good deal of it, but they also endowed a hospital, public gardens, a theatre, and assorted other public buildings, which they didn't have to and obviously many wealthy people don't. That isn't the way I would organise society, but I can allow that the Courthauld's belong to a different social order to someone as disgusting as Jeff Bezos of Amazon, who despite being rich beyond the dreams of avarice, exploits his workers ferociously, evades tax on an industrial scale and entraps customers and suppliers by devious means. There are degrees of evil in capitalism (as there are in socialism). There's nothing there I disagree with. But being a capitalist of any kind is inconsistent with the teachings of the Christian bible. (In my understanding at least. Perhaps I got it wrong, just like that stuff about not killing people...) |
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bendo
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Post by bendo on Jun 12, 2024 18:22:05 GMT
Is this the overall quality of Sky News? This production is awful, the input of the moronic woman from the Daily Mail is awful.
I thought the BBC was bad but bloody hell. Tempted to turn off now.
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Jun 12, 2024 18:22:36 GMT
NorstatUKPolls
GB-wide Poll June 10-12
Westminster Voting Intention
Con 21% (-1%)
Lab 41% (-4%)
Lib Dem 11% (+1%)
Reform UK 17% (+3%)
Green 6% (+1%)
Changes since June 4-5
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Jun 12, 2024 18:28:22 GMT
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Jun 12, 2024 18:31:26 GMT
I must say that I thought that Montgomeryshire and Glyndwr could be the last stand of Toryism in Wales. Not now. Craig Williams - you must be a fool. I would have thought Monmouthshire would be their likely last holdout. |
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
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Post by pjw1961 on Jun 12, 2024 18:54:14 GMT
I must say that I thought that Montgomeryshire and Glyndwr could be the last stand of Toryism in Wales. Not now. Craig Williams - you must be a fool. I would have thought Monmouthshire would be their likely last holdout. The other UKPR is showing that as a Labour gain by a 15% margin. |
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Post by graham on Jun 12, 2024 18:54:40 GMT
I must say that I thought that Montgomeryshire and Glyndwr could be the last stand of Toryism in Wales. Not now. Craig Williams - you must be a fool. I will be surprised were that to happen |
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Post by bardin1 on Jun 12, 2024 18:57:03 GMT
edit -super large attachment, sorry, been at pub
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Post by leftieliberal on Jun 12, 2024 19:03:05 GMT
There are degrees of evil in capitalism (as there are in socialism). Also the most rapacious capitalists can develop a conscience as they get older e.g. Andrew Carnegie. These days they would call it "effective altruism". |
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Post by RAF on Jun 12, 2024 19:07:56 GMT
Over in Feance, Les Républicains leader Mr Ciotti, who boldly proclaimed his party would back Le Pen's National Rally has had a most interesting day.
Firstly, when he caught wind that the parliamentary party would turn up to party offices to pass a motion expelling him from the party, he made sure he got retaliation in first by locking all the doors to the building (ostensibly to protect him and parry staff).
Undeterred, the parliamentary party unanimously expelled him anyway and installed joint interim leaders.
Ciotti, however, was unprepared to let the fact his entire party wanted his ouster to stand in the way of his leadership. He called the vote illegal and a criminal offence and maintained he was still the leader of the party!
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Post by jen on Jun 12, 2024 19:10:36 GMT
Over in Feance, Les Républicains leader Mr Ciotti, who boldly proclaimed his party would back Le Pen's National Rally has had a most interesting day. Firstly, when he caught wind that the parliamentary party would turn up to party offices to pass a motion expelling him from the party, he made sure he got retaliation in first by locking all the doors to the building (ostensibly to protect him and parry staff). Undeterred, the parliamentary party unanimously expelled him anyway and installed joint interim leaders. Ciotti, however, was unprepared to let the fact his entire party wanted his ouster to stand in the way of his leadership. He called the vote illegal and a criminal offence and maintained he was still the leader of the party! Wow! Just wow! |
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Post by thylacine on Jun 12, 2024 19:17:36 GMT
Ming vase safe! Starmer cool, calm, collected and even comfortable.
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patrickbrian
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These things seem small and undistinguishable, like far off mountains turned into clouds
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Post by patrickbrian on Jun 12, 2024 19:19:34 GMT
Sunak's Tories have become a joke - quite a good one really! A new gag every day.
Johnson seemed to manage it, but generally not many people vote for a joke party, do they?
Methinks it's all over, bar the laughter. I'll keep eying the polls though, just to see how low they might go (sadly I'll be on holiday on July 4th)
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Jun 12, 2024 19:24:03 GMT
I would have thought Monmouthshire would be their likely last holdout. The other UKPR is showing that as a Labour gain by a 15% margin. Blimey. |
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Post by peterbell on Jun 12, 2024 19:26:59 GMT
5 min in and Sunak laughed at twice already
Edit 1min later and it is 3 laughs from the audience.
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Post by bardin1 on Jun 12, 2024 19:31:39 GMT
car crash isn't sufficient for this
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oldnat
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Extremist - Undermining the UK state and its institutions
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Post by oldnat on Jun 12, 2024 19:42:55 GMT
car crash isn't sufficient for this
Anent last night's Scottish one, Kevin McKenna describes the farcical process rather well
www.heraldscotland.com/news/24383964.scottish-greens-not-bad-stick-real-issues/?ref=rss&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
"The debate finishes and the contestants all fall into the waiting arms of their supporters. “You nailed it,” they’re all told.
In truth, none of them let anyone down or made a complete horse’s fundament of it. Not a single vote will be shifted, though. If I was to choose a winner though, it would be Lorna Slater. This is the best I’ve ever seen her perform and it warmed my black Marxist heart to hear her call for a luxury tax on the super-rich. “Times are not hard for the super-wealthy,” she declared. “They’ve made out like bandits since Covid. Their wealth has doubled and tripled.” |
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Post by bardin1 on Jun 12, 2024 19:47:41 GMT
I don't watch these "Leader's Debates" - knowing that the brave souls who do will report back.
Anent last night's Scottish one, Kevin McKenna describes the farcical process rather well
www.heraldscotland.com/news/24383964.scottish-greens-not-bad-stick-real-issues/?ref=rss&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
"The debate finishes and the contestants all fall into the waiting arms of their supporters. “You nailed it,” they’re all told.
In truth, none of them let anyone down or made a complete horse’s fundament of it. Not a single vote will be shifted, though. If I was to choose a winner though, it would be Lorna Slater. This is the best I’ve ever seen her perform and it warmed my black Marxist heart to hear her call for a luxury tax on the super-rich. “Times are not hard for the super-wealthy,” she declared. “They’ve made out like bandits since Covid. Their wealth has doubled and tripled.” I don't watch them either, normally. I did watch about 10 minutes of last night's scottish one and heard Lorna green's comments. I did a little cheer at my PC - an excellent statement |
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oldnat
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Post by oldnat on Jun 12, 2024 19:54:53 GMT
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Post by mercian on Jun 12, 2024 20:00:09 GMT
Our local philanthropic family in Braintree were the Courtauld family. They were Huguenots (French Calvinist refugees from persecution of their faith in that country) and establish textile mills in the town. They got rich themselves in the process, and kept a good deal of it, but they also endowed a hospital, public gardens, a theatre, and assorted other public buildings, which they didn't have to and obviously many wealthy people don't. I worked there too, in Coventry. It used to take 3 buses and two trains to get there and I only both left home and arrived home in daylight for about 5 weeks in the year. |
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
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Post by pjw1961 on Jun 12, 2024 20:08:06 GMT
I have zero sympathy for either Sunak or the Tory party but watching him being sliced and diced into tiny little bits by Beth Rigby was actually quite painful.
I'd love to see that lying fraud Farage treated in the same manner, but he dodges anything difficult.
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
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Post by pjw1961 on Jun 12, 2024 20:11:47 GMT
Ming vase safe! Starmer cool, calm, collected and even comfortable. More unusually he showed moments of what seemed genuine anger about the state the country has been left in by the government. Thrown by the question from the young man who said he had become more robotic though - no prepared sound bite on hand. |
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Post by peterbell on Jun 12, 2024 20:15:16 GMT
snap poll Sunak 36% Starmer 64%
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Post by peterbell on Jun 12, 2024 20:17:05 GMT
Both Sophie & Sam Coates reckon that Sunak looked crestfallen and washed out by the end
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Post by mercian on Jun 12, 2024 20:19:08 GMT
Not everyone would regard making modest levels of profit level as immoral, although profiteering (exploitation of customers) and profit maximisation through the exploitation of labour would always be. After all, even co-operatives sell their produce at above the cost of production in order to allow the co-operative to be maintained - the profit going to the members of the co-op rather than an owner of capital of course. Our local philanthropic family in Braintree were the Courtauld family. They were Huguenots (French Calvinist refugees from persecution of their faith in that country) and establish textile mills in the town. They got rich themselves in the process, and kept a good deal of it, but they also endowed a hospital, public gardens, a theatre, and assorted other public buildings, which they didn't have to and obviously many wealthy people don't. That isn't the way I would organise society, but I can allow that the Courthauld's belong to a different social order to someone as disgusting as Jeff Bezos of Amazon, who despite being rich beyond the dreams of avarice, exploits his workers ferociously, evades tax on an industrial scale and entraps customers and suppliers by devious means. There are degrees of evil in capitalism (as there are in socialism). There's nothing there I disagree with. But being a capitalist of any kind is inconsistent with the teachings of the Christian bible. (In my understanding at least. Perhaps I got it wrong, just like that stuff about not killing people...) I've always thought that ideal communism was Christianity without God. Unfortunately until our robot masters take over I don't think it can ever work on a scale larger than a commune or a kibbutz. |
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Post by RAF on Jun 12, 2024 20:20:34 GMT
Ming vase safe! Starmer cool, calm, collected and even comfortable. More unusually he showed moments of what seemed genuine anger about the state the country has been left in by the government. Thrown by the question from the young man who said he had become more robotics though - no prepared sound bite on hand. Or a new charger. The correct answer would have been: "Well, Roy Orbison couldn't move like Little Richard but he was still one of the best." |
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Post by lululemonmustdobetter on Jun 12, 2024 20:21:11 GMT
snap poll Sunak 36% Starmer 64% |
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