25 May 2024 : LAB: 44% / CON: 22% / REF 14% / LDM 9%

[steve]

Greece has national service, it's compulsory for men who must serve 9-12 months at some point between the age of 19 and 45.
Exemptions and deferments are common and of course half the population,the women are exempt, they can volunteer if they like.

Is it popular, not really but there is a tradition of service in Greece and it's perceived as an inevitability as it's been in place in something like the current form for 100 years.Conscription in other forms dated back millennia.

Effectively conscripts are unpaid if not an officer it's around £6 a month in pocket money officers receive more around £450 a month . But conscripts are normally taught to driver they can't do so already which is seen as a bonus.

Many Greeks now defer their service until their mid twenties after university , when they're more likely to get the somewhat higher rate and it's seen as partly responsible for the Greek diaspora as if you leave the country permanently and don't return apart from holidays you're exempt by age at 45.

Around 25% of Greeks actually complete the service.

Conscription is unpopular in urban areas and there have been various efforts to remove it but the Greek military unlike their UK counterparts are actually dependent on this input of conscripts and it keeps the cost of the military down.

I love Greece and it's people, is it more cohesive because of national service, no, do 18 year olds ( 19 year olds in Greece) look forward to it,no and most 19 year olds avoid conscription or defer it any way.


The only reason it works at all is because effectively it's always been that way. I very much doubt a Greek unpopular government would be daft enou to try and introduce it if there hadn't been a three thousand year old tradition of service in the country already.

[steve]

"Starmer to say he’s ‘changed’ Labour as party rules out raising income tax or NI"



Labour have rightly identified that the cuts in NI by the Tories have left a huge underfund for financing of the state pension and have emphasised the cost of fully removing National insurance.

If it's now Labour policy not to restore the levels to that before Hunt's unfunded cuts how precisely do Labour propose to address the 40% of the cut that's already happened?

[steve]

Some may recall that Trump was effectively booed off the stage when maga attempted to hijack the libertarian party national conference and get them to endorse him as their candidate for President.

The conference has had its first round of voting for its preferred candidate .
Trump received six votes ( 0.06%) placing him fourth from  last he was beaten by an individual who simply went by the name "  toad" he did however manage to beat Stormy Daniels who someone wrote in as a candidate and  a pet cat called Denali, trump only managed to beat Denali by 1 vote

The Libertarian Party nominated Chase Oliver as its 2024 presidential candidate who received 60% of the vote .

Oliver is 38 and was previously a democrat backing Barak Obama, he's on the more progressive less extreme end of the party.

On September 5, 2023, Oliver spoke at the Columbia, South Carolina City Council meeting in opposition to regulatory hurdles that prevent people from feeding the homeless. He advocated for the Columbia City Council, and other city councils across the country, to address regulatory barriers to feeding and supporting homeless Americans.

On May 15, 2023, Oliver spoke at the Atlanta City Council meeting to oppose Cop City. During his speech, Oliver highlighted the growing distrust between people and governments and their police forces. Oliver spoke out against the over-militarization of police and qualified immunity. He also advocated for the Atlanta City Council to improve existing training facilities instead of clear-cutting forests that had previously been designated by the City Council as public open space.    

youtu.be/fZkdDUsTS5Y?si=GhQMOFHJgKuuUweI





It's possible that his candidacy might act as a spoiler in some states

[johntel]

Here are some of the ways that volunteers can help in a hospital:

Ward Visitors help make patients’ time in hospital more comfortable by chatting, listening, reading and running errands.
Dementia Buddy Volunteers are ward based volunteers, supporting older patients with Dementia and those without, through social interaction and activities which help maintain cognitive capabilities such as talking, listening and reading. We offer Dementia training so that volunteers have a good understanding of Dementia and how they can positively engage with our patients.
Caring Companions provide additional support for lone patients in short stay Hospital areas including A&E, giving comfort, company and time to lone older patients, offering reassurance, compassion and social interaction. For this role volunteers should be aged 18 years+.
Meet and Greet Volunteers are located at the main entrance or in other departments giving patients and visitors directions and escorting them.
Meal Assistant Volunteers assist patients with eating and drinking at mealtimes.
Chaplaincy Volunteers offer spiritual, religious, pastoral and practical support to patients of all beliefs. This is more of a listening and responding role rather than about religion or belief
Pets as Therapy Volunteers (need to be members of PAT) provide general company to patients on wards/departments who respond positively to pets.
Patient Feedback Volunteers promote and support the collection of patient feedback via the Friends and Family Test.
Clerical Volunteers help behind the scenes with filing, photocopying, packing envelopes and running errands.
Fundraising Volunteers help the Fundraising Department with the organisation of events, distribution of draw tickets, mail-shots etc. in line with the business of Valley Hospital Charity.
Radio Volunteers either present or help behind the scenes to deliver live and pre-recorded radio shows to patients through the hospital radio station.

Unfortunately this ' National Service' idea seems to be going the way of Therea May's 'dementia tax' - a reasonable idea ruined by rushed and poor presentation. 






www.valleyhospitalcharity.org.uk/Pages/FAQs/Category/volunteering-faqs?gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwu8uyBhC6ARIsAKwBGpRa4vVYcQEeMMl0HYrAVbQD5qiFctaz4fU6o7obfA4ISQ9T85PmaQcaArcPEALw_wcB

[steve]

johntel

Volunteers are there because they want to be , conscripted unpaid public service is currently restricted in the UK to those who are being punished for a criminal offence.
I do see a slight well actually a gaping chasm of a difference.

[johntel]

By the way many schoolkids go on some kind of 'work experience' in their last year at school - which seems to work pretty well.

When I were a lad, most kids would get some experience of a work environment through a part-time job from the age of 14 - whether it be just delivering newspapers or stacking shelves in a supermarket. It didn't do me any harm and I think I would have benefited from doing some volunteering at 18 too.

[johntel]

May 27, 2024 6:59:53 GMT steve said:

johntel

Volunteers are there because they want to be , conscripted unpaid public service is currently restricted in the UK to those who are being punished for a criminal offence.
I do see a slight well actually a gaping chasm of a difference.

steve I was really addressing the posters who said there aren't any jobs the volunteers could do in a hospital. 

I agree that making it compulsory is problematical - but there must be ways to make it easier and socially desirable for 18 year olds to do volunteering work. I'm all for gap years and such like to widen young people's experience. it might even encourage them to be more interested in politics and vote in elections    . It just needs thinking through properly.

[crossbat11]

In his heavily heckled speech at the Libertarian Party National Conference, and in a likely knee-jerk attempt to ingratiate himself with a largely hostile audience, Trump created a hostage to fortune.

In typical blustering style he said that he would, on Day 1 of his presidency, commute the sentence of Ross Ulbricht who is serving a life sentence for the running of a website that effectively traded in illegal drugs. Ulbricht is held responsible for, and was found guilty of, causing the deaths of five people and for attempting to arrange the deaths of several others. He sounds a nice fellow, but for some reason his conviction and sentence has become a cause celebre for an extreme element in the Libertarian party.

Trump pandered to them on the night. I should imagine he'll ditch the pledge if he's ever re-elected, but the fact that he cravenly made the foolish offer in order to obtain a cheer at a rally where he felt beleaguered, provides another insight into the man's basic character.

Cowardice is a basic trait of all bullies.

[steve]

johntel
Enjoying having money as a kid I worked part-time from the age of 10, from around 15 I worked with my father running a stall selling cast iron products and antique reproduction of reasonable quality at Bovingdon Sunday market, it's when religious restrictions impacted on trading laws so we had to make something up, I think we said we were jewish.
I used to pick up around £50 a week as we split the profits, which frankly seemed like quite a lot of money back in the mid 1970'show not surprising as it would be worth around £400 now.

As effectively I paid my own way from the age of 15 it helped.

Unfortunately neither of us were able to continue the business after I reached 18 and went to university.

[xanadan]

May 27, 2024 6:50:52 GMT johntel said:

Here are some of the ways that volunteers can help in a hospital:

Ward Visitors help make patients’ time in hospital more comfortable by chatting, listening, reading and running errands.
Dementia Buddy Volunteers are ward based volunteers, supporting older patients with Dementia and those without, through social interaction and activities which help maintain cognitive capabilities such as talking, listening and reading. We offer Dementia training so that volunteers have a good understanding of Dementia and how they can positively engage with our patients.
Caring Companions provide additional support for lone patients in short stay Hospital areas including A&E, giving comfort, company and time to lone older patients, offering reassurance, compassion and social interaction. For this role volunteers should be aged 18 years+.
Meet and Greet Volunteers are located at the main entrance or in other departments giving patients and visitors directions and escorting them.
Meal Assistant Volunteers assist patients with eating and drinking at mealtimes.
Chaplaincy Volunteers offer spiritual, religious, pastoral and practical support to patients of all beliefs. This is more of a listening and responding role rather than about religion or belief
Pets as Therapy Volunteers (need to be members of PAT) provide general company to patients on wards/departments who respond positively to pets.
Patient Feedback Volunteers promote and support the collection of patient feedback via the Friends and Family Test.
Clerical Volunteers help behind the scenes with filing, photocopying, packing envelopes and running errands.
Fundraising Volunteers help the Fundraising Department with the organisation of events, distribution of draw tickets, mail-shots etc. in line with the business of Valley Hospital Charity.
Radio Volunteers either present or help behind the scenes to deliver live and pre-recorded radio shows to patients through the hospital radio station.

Unfortunately this ' National Service' idea seems to be going the way of Therea May's 'dementia tax' - a reasonable idea ruined by rushed and poor presentation. 






www.valleyhospitalcharity.org.uk/Pages/FAQs/Category/volunteering-faqs?gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwu8uyBhC6ARIsAKwBGpRa4vVYcQEeMMl0HYrAVbQD5qiFctaz4fU6o7obfA4ISQ9T85PmaQcaArcPEALw_wcB

My wife is an NHS nurse, who has also worked in care homes and as a carer.

Dementia Buddy Volunteers is difficult as it can be a very challenging role including physical violence, with no warning against the volunteer.

Meal Assistant Volunteer can also be challenging due to choking risk.

Chaplaincy I would think requires specialist training - especially as you may be involved in difficult and serious discussions.

The rest sound more possible.

[steve]

crossbat11
As you'll note the rapists interjection at the libertarian party national conference didn't actually go as planned😂

[shevii]

Worth noting that Johnson's yougov popularity ratings are 30% like 56% dislike.

If he had been able to hold that 30% then maybe enough to get a slightly better result than Sunak will but no chance of winning.

This also assumes that the constant revelations about his behaviour would not have been a drain on the 30% and unlikely the economy under his leadership would have been any different to under Sunak. He would have been subject to the same events that tanked Sunak.

[lefthanging]

May 27, 2024 6:50:52 GMT johntel said:

Pets as Therapy Volunteers (need to be members of PAT) provide general company to patients on wards/departments who respond positively to pets.

I'll be straight on the phone tomorrow to volunteer as a dog.

[patrickbrian]

Volunteering is something that happens massively, both formally and informally, but the Tories mostly don't realise this, because they and their friends expect to be paid for everything they do. The rest of us cheerfully involve ourselves inconspicuously in our communities in ways that suit us without thinking of financial reward. The Samaritans, for example, are run entirely by volunteers, up to senior management. The whole health service would collapse without voluntary assistance at every level. But this depends on structures that have evolved to get the right people to the right places, often very selectively (e.g. school governors) over time. The idea of conscripted volunteering to "sort out" our "youth" is simply for the birds, and IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN! That it's become a major election pledge shows that either the Tories know they have no chance of forming the next government, or that they've lost contact with reality. Possibly both!

Incidentally, I thought May's 'dementia tax' was a great idea; no way comparable to bringing back National Service

[moby]

May 27, 2024 7:00:49 GMT johntel said:

By the way many schoolkids go on some kind of 'work experience' in their last year at school - which seems to work pretty well.

When I were a lad, most kids would get some experience of a work environment through a part-time job from the age of 14 - whether it be just delivering newspapers or stacking shelves in a supermarket. It didn't do me any harm and I think I would have benefited from doing some volunteering at 18 too.

I wondered how long it would be before someone actually said it!

[steve]

lefthanging

Barking hospital needs you!

[moby]

May 27, 2024 7:08:46 GMT johntel said:

May 27, 2024 6:59:53 GMT steve said:

johntel

Volunteers are there because they want to be , conscripted unpaid public service is currently restricted in the UK to those who are being punished for a criminal offence.
I do see a slight well actually a gaping chasm of a difference.

steve I was really addressing the posters who said there aren't any jobs the volunteers could do in a hospital. 

I agree that making it compulsory is problematical - but there must be ways to make it easier and socially desirable for 18 year olds to do volunteering work. I'm all for gap years and such like to widen young people's experience. it might even encourage them to be more interested in politics and vote in elections    . It just needs thinking through properly.

Agree the Govmt needs to put more resources into young people, perhaps we should start by reinstating all the youth services decimated over the last 14 years or perhaps we could invest more money in CAMHS.

[mark61]

May 27, 2024 7:00:49 GMT johntel said:

By the way many schoolkids go on some kind of 'work experience' in their last year at school - which seems to work pretty well.

When I were a lad, most kids would get some experience of a work environment through a part-time job from the age of 14 - whether it be just delivering newspapers or stacking shelves in a supermarket. It didn't do me any harm and I think I would have benefited from doing some volunteering at 18 too.

'it didn't do me any harm' is the go to phrase Boomers reach for to justify forcing something unpalatable on the young.  This policy is Profoundly Illiberal imagine selecting any other Cohort of the population for mandatory unpaid work, say when you reach state pension age for the first year you have to Volunteer or you don't get it and see how that goes down.

Can you imagine what it would look like if ever rolled out, accommodating 700,000 seething 18 year olds,  The Armed Forces don't want it and don't have the resources to take on thousands of 18 year olds, others have pointed out the limited role volunteers can play in the Health service, positively dangerous to place them with the Police, or Fire Service.  The reality is some would end up picking up litter by the side of the road and some would be behind the Counter in Charity shops with most sent home as there would be nothing for them to do.

Worst of all it adds to Generational unfairness where the odds are already stacked against the Young

[steve]

"I wondered how long it would be before someone actually said it! "

Didn't do me any harm either, because it was my idea and I was being paid for it.

[crossbat11]

May 27, 2024 7:42:40 GMT shevii said:

Worth noting that Johnson's yougov popularity ratings are 30% like 56% dislike.

If he had been able to hold that 30% then maybe enough to get a slightly better result than Sunak will but no chance of winning.

This also assumes that the constant revelations about his behaviour would not have been a drain on the 30% and unlikely the economy under his leadership would have been any different to under Sunak. He would have been subject to the same events that tanked Sunak.

There was always a bit of a myth about Johnson's levels of popularity. This article provides a much more nuanced and balanced analysis than the mythology does:-

willjennings.substack.com/p/boris-johnson-is-not-as-popular-as

As far as I can tell, the analysis doesn't delve into the period that elapsed between him taking over from Theresa May to the 2019 election, but I seem to recall some polling evidence for that period that suggested he enjoyed the lowest popularity and personal approval ratings of any PM in their first 12 months of time in the role.

[Dave]

Looking online, confirmed my strong suspicion - about 38% of those aged 18-24 volunteer. I’m pretty confident that that will be the highest ever figure amongst young people.

Youngsters don’t need to be volunteered by us oldies for what’s the term? - compulsorily volunteering 🤪. They put my generation and those older than me to shame when it comes to early involvement in giving their time for free.

[crossbat11]

"It wouldn't have happened in my day........."

[neilj]

johntel

At 18 I was working full time, which I continued to do until retirement.
I would have been very annoyed to have to give my time free by compulsion, rather than volunteering
The vast majority of 18 year olds are either in work or full time Education.
Many of those, especially from less wealthy backgrounds work in their spare time just to make ends meet
People are struggling financially, young people especially, they shouldn't be forced to do this
But if it's such a good idea, make it compulsory for pensioners to do a year of 'volunteering'

[moby]

May 27, 2024 8:00:02 GMT mark61 said:

May 27, 2024 7:00:49 GMT johntel said:

By the way many schoolkids go on some kind of 'work experience' in their last year at school - which seems to work pretty well.

When I were a lad, most kids would get some experience of a work environment through a part-time job from the age of 14 - whether it be just delivering newspapers or stacking shelves in a supermarket. It didn't do me any harm and I think I would have benefited from doing some volunteering at 18 too.

'it didn't do me any harm' is the go to phrase Boomers reach for to justify forcing something unpalatable on the young.  This policy is Profoundly Illiberal imagine selecting any other Cohort of the population for mandatory unpaid work, say when you reach state pension age for the first year you have to Volunteer or you don't get it and see how that goes down.

Can you imagine what it would look like if ever rolled out, accommodating 700,000 seething 18 year olds,  The Armed Forces don't want it and don't have the resources to take on thousands of 18 year olds, others have pointed out the limited role volunteers can play in the Health service, positively dangerous to place them with the Police, or Fire Service.  The reality is some would end up picking up litter by the side of the road and some would be behind the Counter in Charity shops with most sent home as there would be nothing for them to do.

Worst of all it adds to Generational unfairness where the odds are already stacked against the Young

.....Besides we'd run out of placements for offenders currently doing unpaid work as part of their community payback.

[crossbat11]

May 27, 2024 7:58:27 GMT steve said:

lefthanging

Barking hospital needs you!

It's a dog's life volunteering I've always found.

[steve]

I do think I detect a difference between my age cohort and late teenagers now.

Don't worry it's not another trip down memory lane, I worked from the age of ten part-time worked throughout my secondary education and worked full time during the summer vacation when at uni, this was very common , I did start earlier than most.
Teenagers now are far less likely to have part time jobs I'm certain this isn't because they don't want the money it's just that the zero hour and lunatic shift times of most employment now with no short term but fixed hours contracts simply doesn't lend itself to their availability.

Address this issue before pissing around making young people do something they don't want to do for nothing.

[crossbat11]

When I was 17 I volunteered my services to a delightful woman who was somewhat older than me. These were politely declined, but I officially registered the several hours of time I put into it all.

No Duke of Edinburgh's award was forthcoming, sadly

[moby]

Interesting clear blue water opening up.....Labour concentrating on votes for 16 and 17 year olds, breakfast clubs, funding state schools through VAT on private schools....while the tories approach the young through mandatory unpaid service.

[Danny]

May 26, 2024 20:35:06 GMT Mark said:

Are they delibarately trying to lose?

If the answer is yes, the next question has to be....is there something coming down the line that they know about but we don't - and if so, what?

I'm pretty certain con core leadership chose this time for the election because it is the golden window in 2024. Lots of economic indicators suggest they will be worse by christmas. Its entirely possible central government believes they will be much worse. Various bodies including OBR have said they think the current government budget is unsustainable, never mind having another giveaway budget this autumn. Hunt's spring affair looked like a giveaway and timing was fine for its effects to be noticed by now. If you believed what con are saying now, that the economy is recovering and they have already fixed it, then there was no reason whatever to go now, better to have another six months of this parliament before winning a new mandate on your record of clear improvement through the last half of this year. They believe its all going to be significantly worse by year end. Just about every state service you look at is underfunded and on the edge of collapse.

Con are currently trying to say lab will not do any better than they have. I think they are a little hamstrung in this because to claim labour cannot deliver on improved services, they kinda have to admit there is absolutely no room for more generous budgeting given the state of the economy they have been managing for 14 years. Their traditional attack line that con are better at managing the economy is very weak when they have been in charge for so long and things have only got worse. This means they need something else to say, they cannot do nothing and leave a media vacuum.

What they have to say is exceedingly limited. There is their plan to send boat people to Rwanda, which has mostly deflected attention from the fact they promised Brexit would end immigration, whereas it did nothing of the sort because immigration is a deliberate government policy. The boat people are a tiny percentage of people coming here, if we have an immigration peoblem it is entirely because the current conservative government encourages people to come here. Con seem to have deliberately failed to implement the Rwanda plan properly, they have now had several attempts to legislate it each failing in ways which were predicted when that legislation was written. Braverman resigned as home secretary saying Sunak was deliberatly preventing proper Rwanda legislation being written. It was better for them to never send anyone to Rwanda and keep this alive as an issue to talk about when the election finally arrived.

The national service plan yesterday was absurd. National service was abandoned for good reason, that its better to train people who actually plan to become soldiers as soldiers, rather than waste the time of professional soldiers looking after conscripts who dont want to be there anyway. It makes sense if like Israel you are maintaining a citizens army where everyone has had military training and may be called up to actually fight at any time, Israel has had an active war on its doorstep since before it was created. Whereas frankly, we prefer our citizens to have the least training in fighting or handling guns or knives as possible because we seek to eradicate use of violence in society! Aside from that, I am already of the view too many youngsters are wasting their time doing university courses which will never be useful to their careers except as a degree certificate required as a ticket to be allowed to apply for better jobs. National service simply proposes to waste more time of our youth before starting economically useful activity. The cost of this is to reduce the available workforce by something like 10%. Thats a lot!

Housing, planning...you solve that by building more homes, but con have as dogma to protect the views of exisiting property holders over undeveloped acres against the desire of others to have a home. Some slight policy room here, but fundamentally they also dogmatically disapprove of the state providing any service such as housing. The giveaway of state property to buy votes has pretty much run its course. But neither party is willing to admit this was a mistake. Lab will build more homes than con but they too are reluctant to really push this as it needs.

Decarbonisation- con have abandoned serious attempts to do this because it requires state investment. Both parties now seem to accept nuclear power, but thats a stupid mistake directing resources away from a proper switch to renewables. Again, land wind farms or solar arrays or trunk cabling are being blocked in planning, deliberately. The switch to electric vehicles is faltering partly because it is in real terms more expensive than fossil fuel, but also because necessary investment in infrastructure was either cancelled or never begun by con.

The army...traditional con strong issue.....has been massively run down by them. Stupid mistake continuing the 2 aircraft carriers, which are only good as part of a task force attacking a country by sea, and only then as part of a much bigger naval force than we could possibly muster by ourselves. The better economy we had under labour might have justified the carriers, but after 2008 crash (not labour's fault) they should have been cancelled. Con kept them going as a money pit for our defence budget.

Privatised utilities including railways and Post Office... all con dogmas to privatise state owned utilites, which have all resulted in worse service. No vote winners there.

NHS...failing for lack of funding. Theresa May tried to push the debate on what to do about increasing costs of elderly care and was attacked for doing so. This problem has been simmering for decades but is reaching a head because services are collapsing. There has to be a national debate either to fund this area more, or accept people dying sooner for lack of care. The problem of a state service is that the state has to decide what level of care to provide. If left to market forces, its simple because the millionair gets the best and the pauper gets none. Politicians have to decide how many people to allow to die how much sooner than they otherwise might. In regard to this it was utter foolishnes for Johnson and co. to say money was no object during covid. Even the NHS reported that the huge amount of money spent on covid management could have been better spent and saved more quality life years had we done nothing special about covid but spent it instead on normally targeted health care. There is no national acceptance that people get old and die, and nothing will prevent this, best we can do is delay it a bit...at escalating cost the harder and longer we try. Neither party wants to address this properly, lab say they will spend a bit more and likely will.

In general con dogma is that market forces work best. They patently do not. It may be there is an optimum middle way where state guided markets work best, but con and even lab have allowed markets to run amok. Their ability for innovation gets directed at subverting attempts to control them by the state. The 2008 crash was caused by market forces to maximise bank profits in the short term, Ignoring risk which was inevitably going to cause a crash in the long term. Lab have repudiated Corbyn and a more redistributive policy, and mostly seem to want tory light in encouraging private industry. But for years Germany illustrated the advantages of light touch intervention, particularly in state funded investment. In the UK this went out with Heseltine, who made the last stand for state intervention amongst tories. Uncontrolled markets also suit very large countries, such as the US and China. International policy on free trade has been dictated by what is best for them, not small countries. The only defence we had against this was EU membership. Con are still admanat leavers, no policy opening there. Lab still refuse to countenancae they were wrong to go along with brexit either.

So... this isnt a complete list. What policy options do conservative have to deliberately talk about to fill this six week election campaign which are positive for them?

[patrickbrian]

May 27, 2024 8:07:41 GMT neilj said:

johntel

At 18 I was working full time, which I continued to do until retirement.
I would have been very annoyed to have to give my time free by compulsion, rather than volunteering
The vast majority of 18 year olds are either in work or full time Education.
Many of those, especially from less wealthy backgrounds work in their spare time just to make ends meet
People are struggling financially, young people especially, they shouldn't be forced to do this
But if it's such a good idea, make it compulsory for pensioners to do a year of 'volunteering'

Pensioners, with a lifetime's acquired skills, will be a great deal more use.  But I think they ARE volunteering, in big numbers, already.

What  do we include in volunteering?  Community arts?  Charity trustees? Cutting your neighbour's hedge? Grandparent duty?  Doing the Tennis Club accounts?    It's part of life for most of us despised boomers!