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Post by shevii on May 8, 2024 22:03:33 GMT
Isn't it a rather crazy idea that people should not only be able to buy foods, that aren't in season where they live, but should be able to buy them cheaply all year round?
That concept is one that is generated by the sense of entitlement created among people in wealthy countries - by those who make themselves even wealthier by doing so!. My wife tends to do most of the (online) shopping but I do get the feeling that supermarkets manipulate prices of fresh food to produce a more consistent price all year round? On something like UK produced fruits you will see the difference on strawberries and the like when they are in season, but on other fruit and vegetables maybe not so much? When I used to shop down my local traditional outdoor market you would know what was in season on everything and could go for the cheapest option on, say, sprouts or broccoli, them serving much the same purpose- or at least they are both green which is close enough for me. Also very often they'd be virtually giving it away at the end of a Saturday with stuff that they could obviously get dirt cheap wholesale and take the chance. That meant there was more incentive to buy stuff in season and less air miles etc. So aside from making things available all year round the supermarkets are also encouraging out of season shopping- assuming what I say is true about their pricing policies. |
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Post by mercian on May 8, 2024 22:06:48 GMT
c-a-r-f-r-e-w - cheap food: I always say this when anyone talks about the future of food, but roughly half the western population is obese and around a quarter of the food produced is discarded in the UK, likely similar elsewhere. Although obesity isn't as simple as eating too much, it's a truism that far too many people eat too much and we discard a shameful quantity of food. So before we even start to think about depopulating, we have some very substantial solutions already available to us, if we started to actually look at the sensible solutions, instead of being too frightened to upset business to do anything. another consideration is something I read recently, that modern farming methods mean food is becoming less nutritious We could always go back to Dig for Victory, and turn back gardens, parks and so on into food-producing land. Some gardens already are of course. Another problem with our own food production is all the pressure to take farmland out of productive use, whether it be by encouraging farmers to let some of their land remain unfarmed, or cover it with solar panels. |
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on May 8, 2024 22:10:00 GMT
another consideration is something I read recently, that modern farming methods mean food is becoming less nutritious We could always go back to Dig for Victory, and turn back gardens, parks and so on into food-producing land. Some gardens already are of course. Another problem with our own food production is all the pressure to take farmland out of productive use, whether it be by encouraging farmers to let some of their land remain unfarmed, or cover it with solar panels. There are agrisolar developments now where they grow crops under the panels, and the panels are motorised and move during the day. To optimise the Sun for the panels but also the light exposure to the plants. They grow better because the light and shade they get is optimised, they don’t dry out as much and so on |
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oldnat
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Post by oldnat on May 8, 2024 22:11:11 GMT
The Great Gorby, Owen Jones, has just blown another gasket about Elphicke's defection. Which suggests to me that Starmer might be on to something here. That doesn’t wash for me. To me it makes me wonder just how sure he would have to be in himself and in Labour’s prospects of victory that he felt able to not admit the likes of her to Labour just to get one over Sunak and for chess-like positioning. Be honest, if someone had told you yesterday that Elphicke would be a Labour MP today, on a scale of one to ten, how chuffed would you have been? As we know, much like Owen Jones or the likes of Graham or the SNP supporters on here, for some, anything Starmer does will be greeted with derision as a reflex. But you really don’t have to be Owen Jones to think that Starmer has unnecessarily (and that’s the key point) pulled a crappy one here.
I deride Starmer, because his strategy for his incoming Labour government, doesn't match anything that I want to see either of my governments implementing. I am strongly in favour of the English electorate moving away from the more extreme version of Conservatism, and delivering Starmer as the new PM - TINA, as Thatcher once said.
But I live in a polity, where the binary political division is very different from the one that the GB political parties have decided on - which is a choice between which brands of Conservatism their electorate prefers.
As an example, there was little concern about, or opposition to, ending the RtB in Scotland, yet Reeves has rejected a very limited version of that by Burnham. It is reasonable to judge political parties by what they want to try to do. Within parties, there will be disagreements, but power lies with those at the top, and the top of the Labour Party is Tory. |
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2024 22:50:01 GMT
For all the apparent backlash in some LAB quarters about the Elphicke defection, and the explosion of discussion among the chattering classes, I suspect the average punter will today have heard "blah, blah blah...another Tory MP has defected...blah, blah, blah" and many will have thought, if they gave it any thought at all, "if their own people can't stick with them, why should I bother?"
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oldnat
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Extremist - Undermining the UK state and its institutions
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Post by oldnat on May 9, 2024 0:15:24 GMT
For all the apparent backlash in some LAB quarters about the Elphicke defection, and the explosion of discussion among the chattering classes, I suspect the average punter will today have heard "blah, blah blah...another Tory MP has defected...blah, blah, blah" and many will have thought, if they gave it any thought at all, "if their own people can't stick with them, why should I bother?"
Probably like most punters, I had no previous consciousness of Elphicke's existence. or her views on anything. Doubtless, some will respond as you suggest, but others (on learning of her beliefs) will have doubts as to whether Starmer's ideas match theirs. |
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Post by ptarmigan on May 9, 2024 0:31:19 GMT
I didn't read Labour's "New Deal for Workers" in any detail, and (obviously) haven't seen the amended version sent out to the unions, so can't comment on the accuracy, or otherwise, of Unite's statement.
But it is a very strong statement!
www.unitetheunion.org/news-events/news/2024/may/labour-s-draft-new-deal-for-workers-now-unrecognisable
“It looks like all the warnings Unite made earlier about the dangers of Labour rowing back on its pledges for the New Deal for Workers have been proved right. This new Labour document on the New Deal, issued to the unions on Monday, is a row back on a row back. It is totally unrecognisable from the original proposals produced with the unions. Unrecognisable. Workers will see through this and mark this retreat after retreat as a betrayal.
“This new document is turning what was a real new deal for workers into a charter for bad bosses. Labour don’t want a law against fire and rehire and they are effectively ripping up the promise of legislation on a new deal for workers in its first 100 days. Instead, we have codes of conduct and pledges of consultation with big business. Likewise, the proposal to legislate against zero hours contracts is watered down to almost nothing.
“In truth this new document is not worthy of discussion. All unions must now demand that Labour changes course and puts the original New Deal for Workers back on the table.” Struggling to think of any pledges Labour hasn't watered down. There's something grimly amusing that about the only half-decent thing left in their armoury - rail renationalisation - was something the Tories basically ok'd in the Williams-Shapps plan. |
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Post by ptarmigan on May 9, 2024 0:31:55 GMT
100%. She’s a hard right, immigrant obsessed, Johnsonite. I can see how Starmer and co would have seen the benefit in this but I’m afraid that Starmer has been played here. She’s no more Labour than Rees Mogg is. She just wants to undermine Sunak and sadly I think that for short term gain, Starmer has been suckered into her objective As ever, Kinnock has a way with words. He said it’s a broad church but even a church has walls. Whether this embarrasses Sunak and co or not, she should not have been admitted to the Labour Party. End of. Was Shaun Woodward 'Labour'?
At least she's standing down. The headline is all that matters here, not the detail. As I and a few others said on here not so long ago, if playing a bit 'dirty' sweeps Labour into power, fine.
I'm not Trev by the way. I'm using quotation marks for a reason.
Shaun Woodward was very different. I have rather mixed feelings about MPs crossing the floor - I generally think such defections should be viewed through the prism of our system being dysfunctional and unfit for purpose rather than being the product of some deft political manoeuvring - but the main thing that precipitated Woodward's move to Labour was his opposition to Section 28 so there was a progressive point of principle there. It's obviously possible to view his move as careerist, especially as he was subsequently handed a safe seat, but the point is he wasn't a hardliner. Elphicke, on the other hand, is viewed as someone firmly on the right of a very right-wing iteration of the Conservative party. She's a hardliner on immigration, she backed fire-and-rehire policies, she voted to make abortion a criminal offence in Northern Ireland, she criticised Marcus Rashford's campaign on child poverty and was suspended from parliament for trying to influence the judge presiding over the trial over her ex-husband (after his conviction for sexual assault she suggested the extent of his crime was being "attractive, and attracted to, women"). Is this really the sort of person people want in the Labour Party? Taken together with Starmer's hostility towards those on the left and watering down/junking of virtually all his pledges, the obvious conclusion is this is no longer a progressive LOC party, and frankly hasn't been for some time under the current leadership. |
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Post by ptarmigan on May 9, 2024 0:45:51 GMT
Just a very sensible party who we should applaud for their inherent sensibleness.
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Post by jen on May 9, 2024 2:36:51 GMT
That doesn’t wash for me. To me it makes me wonder just how sure he would have to be in himself and in Labour’s prospects of victory that he felt able to not admit the likes of her to Labour just to get one over Sunak and for chess-like positioning. Be honest, if someone had told you yesterday that Elphicke would be a Labour MP today, on a scale of one to ten, how chuffed would you have been? As we know, much like Owen Jones or the likes of Graham or the SNP supporters on here, for some, anything Starmer does will be greeted with derision as a reflex. But you really don’t have to be Owen Jones to think that Starmer has unnecessarily (and that’s the key point) pulled a crappy one here.
I deride Starmer, because his strategy for his incoming Labour government, doesn't match anything that I want to see either of my governments implementing. I am strongly in favour of the English electorate moving away from the more extreme version of Conservatism, and delivering Starmer as the new PM - TINA, as Thatcher once said.
But I live in a polity, where the binary political division is very different from the one that the GB political parties have decided on - which is a choice between which brands of Conservatism their electorate prefers.
As an example, there was little concern about, or opposition to, ending the RtB in Scotland, yet Reeves has rejected a very limited version of that by Burnham. It is reasonable to judge political parties by what they want to try to do. Within parties, there will be disagreements, but power lies with those at the top, and the top of the Labour Party is Tory.I agree. Labour looks like the same incompetent corrupt shite, just less incompetent and less corrupt. And before you Unionist nutjobs kick off, yes, SNP is kack too, they just seem to be less incompetent and less corrupt than Labour. Also they plan to keep the benefits of our natural resources, rather than letting Westminster exploit them to benefit their particular favourites. And yeah, blah blah blah, I have heard all your Unionist propaganda, I have researched it, I was a Unionist when I moved here. Your arguments don't hold water. You lie just like Tories do... (to lie like a Tory... I think that might go into the dictionary one day... perhaps with the quote "Starmer lied like a Tory"...) |
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steve
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Post by steve on May 9, 2024 5:12:39 GMT
" You won't have your insulin but you will have a blue passport. " Can't remember seeing that on the side of the big red bull shit bus. "Mark Dayan, its Brexit programme lead, said: “Nearly every available indicator shows that since 2021 we have experienced a once unthinkable level of medicines shortages again and again. The crisis jumps between products and conditions, with no sign of slowing down.” While other western countries such as Italy and Germany were also being hit by disruptions to supply, “Brexit creates some extra obstacles for the UK because our market is now partly separated from the wider European pool of supplies,” Dayan added." www.theguardian.com/society/article/2024/may/09/medicine-shortages-in-england-beyond-critical-pharmacists-warn |
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neilj
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Post by neilj on May 9, 2024 5:24:37 GMT
Details of Labour's proposals on employment law, worth reading the whole article. On the whole very promising, usual caveats of let's see the finished proposals. But what it isn't, by any stretch of the imagination, is something a tory Government would do
Labour has vowed it will change the law to ban fire and rehire, after a war of words with unions who accused the party of watering down its pledges on workers’ rights...
Key to the criticism from trade unions were changes to the wording of plans to end fire and rehire – removing a direct promise to end the dismissal of workers for rejecting a worse contract.
But Labour sources said it was not their intention to abandon that pledge and said the party would legislate within 100 days with an employment rights bill that would ban the practice
Unions are also expected to demand clarity on a ban of zero-hours contracts, described in the document as the “right to switch to a contract that reflects the number of hours they regularly work, based on a 12-week reference period”. The original green paper said: “Labour will ban zero-hours contracts and contracts without a minimum number of guaranteed hours.”
A party source said that employers would be required to proactively offer the new contract after 12 weeks. Unite, the Fire Brigades Union and other smaller unions have raised alarm that the loophole could be subject to abuse by rogue employers'
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steve
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Post by steve on May 9, 2024 5:39:08 GMT
Sneak preview of next week's PMQ's  |
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steve
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Post by steve on May 9, 2024 5:43:23 GMT
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steve
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Post by steve on May 9, 2024 6:08:40 GMT
Last week I said, partly in jest that the reason why Dr Dan Poulter had defected from the Tory party to Labour is because the liberal democrats were far too left wing for him. Well now the Starmer led Labour party has accepted the far right brexitanians Natalie Elphicke into their ranks it seems I was right. This might have been the time where moral credibility might have been worth more than the PMQ photo opportunity. I'd be interested to see what Labour party supporters think about permitting someone into your party who just a few days earlier was applauding the forced detention and planned forced rendition of asylum seekers. Did Starmer leave his moral compass in his other jacket? youtu.be/WdQtNs7EMB4?si=_n3ZWsN-FlV_UvO4 |
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Post by jib on May 9, 2024 6:10:01 GMT
Someone got woken up early today.  |
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Post by alec on May 9, 2024 6:13:59 GMT
Fascinating to see this - hbr.org/2024/05/long-covid-at-work-a-managers-guideWhen Harvard Business School drafts a business managers guide specifically for long covid, it's a sure sign that the real world is beginning to understand just how much of a problem we have. Meanwhile, on covid, data from the UK showing a sharp rise in hospitalisations which could suggest infection rates of 1 in 65 according to some tentative analyses (low confidence as the level of monitoring is now so bad) has now been joined by somewhat better data from Australia suggesting they too are having a significant surge. In Queensland, the implied R number is well over 1, above 2 in some places. Two countries in opposite hemispheres once again making the case that this is absolutely not seasonal. The latest uptick is related to the JN.1 + 'FliRT variants, and once again suggests immunity is waning rapidly. While this is chugging along, the developing story in the US over H5N1 bird flu highlights the catastrophe that have engulfed public health. The CDC is recommending dairy workers and other at risk groups wear full body suits, N95 respirators and goggles, and want to launch a coast to cost cattle surveillance system to understand how far this has spread and quickly identify any more human cases before the situation spins out of control. Several states with large dairy interests, mainly Republican led, are refusing to cooperate for fear of harming business interests. We've learned nothing. |
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domjg
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Post by domjg on May 9, 2024 6:26:01 GMT
Why would anyone for a second get into handwringing over the Elphicke defection as if it was indicative of something wider? This is politics for heavens sake, it's just temporary, tory damaging optics with their own natural supporters. You do realise politics and getting elected is in large part a game in which you take every opportunity to score? It can't be all principle and virtue, that's very nice but I'm afraid gets you precisely nowhere with the British press and electorate alas. jen SNP less 'corrupt' than Labour? That's an 'interesting' interpretation of recent events.. |
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steve
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Post by steve on May 9, 2024 6:27:17 GMT
alecWhile I've no doubt you are correct about the Harvard business school guide I think you might be a tad eager to assign this special relevance the Harvard business school produces dozens of paid for and free business guides every year has done so for decades. It's part of their business model. I share your concerns about bird flu incidentally, if this became a human to human transmitted virus the consequences are dire with mortality rates and an age demographic of far greater potential consequence than covid. Maybe a global pandemic will get us before climate breakdown. What a time to be alive!
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steve
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Post by steve on May 9, 2024 6:30:59 GMT
domjgI'm not sure if the political bonus in this instance was needed for Labour. It's a bit embarrassing for Labour mps to explain why someone who was in the Tory European research group far right cult until Tuesday, is suitable as a Labour mp on Wednesday. It does feed into the popular trope that all politicians are the same.
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Post by crossbat11 on May 9, 2024 6:36:53 GMT
For all the apparent backlash in some LAB quarters about the Elphicke defection, and the explosion of discussion among the chattering classes, I suspect the average punter will today have heard "blah, blah blah...another Tory MP has defected...blah, blah, blah" and many will have thought, if they gave it any thought at all, "if their own people can't stick with them, why should I bother?" I agree totally. With a very few honourable exceptions, party defectors are usually disgruntled and peeved middling politicians who are seeking attention and an opportunity to wound their former party. More gesture than late career Damascene conversions. They tend to travel ideologically light too and have traded principles regularly throughout what are likely to have been frustrated political careers. Did Lee Anderson, a former Scargill admirer when in the Labour Party, suddenly acquire right wing views or did he just sense better opportunities to become a celebrity in another party? I think we might all be surprised by the number of people in all parties who don't really believe in anything very much at all. Some have even risen to become Prime Ministers. But I waffle on. Your point is spot on. The electorate will only notice further evidence of Tory division and decline. Elphicke will be but another politician cum cipher in a political game. A game that most voters play only once every four or five years. This lot's useless and finished. Time to give the other lot a go. The other lot then get the keys to the car. And away we go to all sorts of fun places. |
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Dave
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... I'm dreaming dreams, I'm scheming schemes, I'm building castles high ..
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Post by Dave on May 9, 2024 6:53:10 GMT
For all the apparent backlash in some LAB quarters about the Elphicke defection, and the explosion of discussion among the chattering classes, I suspect the average punter will today have heard "blah, blah blah...another Tory MP has defected...blah, blah, blah" and many will have thought, if they gave it any thought at all, "if their own people can't stick with them, why should I bother?" Yep, despite what I said last night, I have no doubt that this is true. |
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Post by EmCat on May 9, 2024 6:56:16 GMT
For all the apparent backlash in some LAB quarters about the Elphicke defection, and the explosion of discussion among the chattering classes, I suspect the average punter will today have heard "blah, blah blah...another Tory MP has defected...blah, blah, blah" and many will have thought, if they gave it any thought at all, "if their own people can't stick with them, why should I bother?"
Probably like most punters, I had no previous consciousness of Elphicke's existence. or her views on anything. Doubtless, some will respond as you suggest, but others (on learning of her beliefs) will have doubts as to whether Starmer's ideas match theirs.No doubt someone has crunched the numbers, and worked out that for every 10 people who have read into the announcement and worry about the direction the Labour Party seems to be going, there will be 100 who take the "Maybe Labour aren't as bad as my news sources claim" As well as this "lose 10; gain 100" the geography of the losses vs gains might also mean the losses will be in areas where Labour are already strong (for example, London, or North of England), while the gains may be where they are not so strong, such as South of England. Of course, if the numbers have been crunched wrongly, then both the gains/losses and the geography will lead to results that weren't planned for - maybe that's where the "On course for a hung parliament" idea sprang from |
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pjw1961
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Post by pjw1961 on May 9, 2024 6:58:29 GMT
One local government by-election today and the rare chance of a Labour gain direct from the Conservatives in Scotland. It will be seen that the late Conservative councillor had only been in third place in first preferences behind Labour and the SNP, with Labour topping the poll. Logically therefore in a single member by-election (and given the mess the SNP and Conservatives are in) a Labour gain is highly likely.
NORTH AYRSHIRE UA; Kilwinning (Con died)
GIBSON, Ian Charles (Scottish Family Party)
GIBSON, Sheila (SNP)
HUME, Mary (Labour)
KIRKWOOD, Ruby (Liberal Democrat)
LAWLER, Chris (Conservative)
2022: Lab 1714, 842 (both elected); SNP 1225 (elected), 714; Con 867 (elected); LD 191
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Post by crossbat11 on May 9, 2024 7:11:10 GMT
In terms of parading defectors, I think Starmer needs to pay another visit to the altar of the old master Tony Blair. The great stuntsman of politics. Starmer looked a bit awkward and sheepish with Elphicke yesterday. Tony was the maestro of these sorts of optics.
I remember him parading Howarth, the sitting Tory MP for true blue Stratford upon Avon of all places, at a hastily arranged press conference. A grinning Blair hogging the limelight with Howarth a mere hero worshiper in the great man's shadow.
Because Howarth was merely a useful prop in the rolling Blair show. The story was Tony. In his pomp, the story was always about Tony and nobody else.
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neilj
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Post by neilj on May 9, 2024 7:11:16 GMT
Wowser
Labour lead at *30 points* in this week's YouGov poll for The Times
That's the biggest Labour lead since Truss
CON 18 (=)
LAB 48 (+4)
LIB DEM 9 (-1)
REF UK 13 (-2)
GRN 7 (-1)
Fieldwork 7 - 8 May
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Post by crossbat11 on May 9, 2024 7:18:25 GMT
Wowser Labour lead at *30 points* in this week's YouGov poll for The Times That's the biggest Labour lead since Truss CON 18 (=) LAB 48 (+4) LIB DEM 9 (-1) REF UK 13 (-2) GRN 7 (-1) Fieldwork 7 - 8 May The Elphicke Effect? |
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neilj
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Post by neilj on May 9, 2024 7:21:30 GMT
Wowser Labour lead at *30 points* in this week's YouGov poll for The Times That's the biggest Labour lead since Truss CON 18 (=) LAB 48 (+4) LIB DEM 9 (-1) REF UK 13 (-2) GRN 7 (-1) Fieldwork 7 - 8 May The Elphicke Effect? Little early 😀 |
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Dave
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... I'm dreaming dreams, I'm scheming schemes, I'm building castles high ..
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Post by Dave on May 9, 2024 7:23:55 GMT
Wowser Labour lead at *30 points* in this week's YouGov poll for The Times That's the biggest Labour lead since Truss CON 18 (=) LAB 48 (+4) LIB DEM 9 (-1) REF UK 13 (-2) GRN 7 (-1) Fieldwork 7 - 8 May I'm going to have to set you a more demanding target mate.  Seriously though, even by the standards of recent polling, that is a wow. I know that we can't read too much into one poll, but even taking into account margin of error and all that, that's still two successive YouGov polls putting the Tories on sub-20. We'll never know, but I wonder if last weeks elections results have cemented for people that this is a dying government and that gives still more people the freedom to a) walk away from them and b) not be enticed back to their old team, when clearly it is going to lose with or without them. |
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Post by thylacine on May 9, 2024 7:26:54 GMT
Wowser Labour lead at *30 points* in this week's YouGov poll for The Times That's the biggest Labour lead since Truss CON 18 (=) LAB 48 (+4) LIB DEM 9 (-1) REF UK 13 (-2) GRN 7 (-1) Fieldwork 7 - 8 May The Elphicke Effect? Bandwagon effect. People want to be on the winning side. |
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Seriously though, even by the standards of recent polling, that is a wow. 