pjw1961
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Post by pjw1961 on May 8, 2024 14:18:04 GMT
How i miss the Conservative manifesto from 2015, it was aspirational and except for the brutal government destroying last bit had my vote even know I usually vote Labour. There was something in there for everyone just a shame about the EU referendum. Extension of the right-to-buy scheme to housing association tenants in England Plans to build 200,000 starter homes Ensuring all people who work 30 hours per week on the minimum wage pay no income tax Doubling free childcare allowance for three and four-year-olds to 30 hours Increasing the inheritance tax threshold on family homes to £1m by 2017 No above-inflation rises in rail fares until 2020 An extra £8bn a year for the NHS by 2020 Opening 500 more free schools An EU referendum by 2017 Interesting. I am (and was at the time I guess) opposed to at least 5 of those, which doubtless explains why I have never voted Tory. |
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neilj
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Post by neilj on May 8, 2024 14:30:50 GMT
It will be another positive news cycle for Labour
In addition Elphick will also be the trump card played by Labour every time the tories attack Labour for being soft on immigration/small boats crossing.
With her leaving at the next election also minimal local party disruption
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domjg
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Post by domjg on May 8, 2024 14:34:08 GMT
Feels like it's been a long time coming. Hopefully it will stay sunny for a while. |
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Post by crossbat11 on May 8, 2024 14:39:16 GMT
It will be another positive news cycle for Labour In addition Elphick will also be the trump card played by Labour every time the tories attack Labour for being soft on immigration/small boats crossing. With her leaving at the next election also minimal local party disruption This seems to me to be the key point here. A win-win for Starmer. Party politics is often a deeply cynical game of wrong-footing opponents and opportunism. Part of what you have to do to win. You have to beat your opponents who happen to be on the same playing field, often playing dirty too. There's no point observing the niceties of fair play if your opponents have no concept of what that means. Elphicke is a mere pawn in the game in many respects. Useful for now. |
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Post by leftieliberal on May 8, 2024 14:41:09 GMT
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Post by crossbat11 on May 8, 2024 14:42:50 GMT
The AI nightmare begins to unfold. |
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Post by guymonde on May 8, 2024 14:43:45 GMT
I was quite upset by Monty's (first) decision. I shared the wide affection for him as a cricketer. He was very good at bowling for a while, even if pretty crud at other skills, but his enthusiasm was engaging, and his obvious delight when things went right.
His career ended with some chaos, apparently due to mental issues, and it made me feel sorry.
He is in no immediate danger of becoming a political icon but he has even dealt with his daft decision with Galloway in an uncomplicated and endearing manner.
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Danny
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Post by Danny on May 8, 2024 14:50:21 GMT
steve - "And just in case people might have forgotten those who caught covid were ten thousand times more likely to die if they were over 85 than if they were under 20." Never really understood why lefties and others who profess to care constantly use the argument that horribly unpleasant but preventable deaths in people are nothing to worry about because they're old. You totally miss the point. Which is that what might be appropriate action to prevent those deaths amongst the old is utterly not amongst the young. Ordering the young to stop work and stay home when they had minimal risk was economic insanity. Moreover it had the effect of prolonging the outbreak- absolutely intentionally- which meant the old who are naturally isolated by virtue of being retired were at risk for much longer, so you would expect more to catch it and die. |
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on May 8, 2024 15:49:23 GMT
The AI nightmare begins to unfold. it’s quite the headfeck. I read an article about the energy requirements of AI the other day, which they say are set to be pretty huge. AI outfits are starting to invest in nuclear fission and fusion tech to try and ensure enough energy. If we are behind on energy we won’t be able to power the AI to the same extent as others, which will put us further behind. This is alongside all the energy we are going to need for Electric cars, heat pumps, possibly carbon capture (to give us a better chance of dealing with climate change) and more. Energy affects so many important things but it doesn’t arouse much interest. At least we are competing on fusion… |
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on May 8, 2024 15:52:42 GMT
I was quite upset by Monty's (first) decision. I shared the wide affection for him as a cricketer. He was very good at bowling for a while, even if pretty crud at other skills, but his enthusiasm was engaging, and his obvious delight when things went right. His career ended with some chaos, apparently due to mental issues, and it made me feel sorry. He is in no immediate danger of becoming a political icon but he has even dealt with his daft decision with Galloway in an uncomplicated and endearing manner. Hello again, sorry this isn’t a question about Monty, but it just occurred to me that you posted an approach towards sorting the housing price problem on the old board which piqued my interest but I have forgotten what it was and wondered if you could summarise it again? (No biggie if not…) |
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Post by alec on May 8, 2024 16:09:12 GMT
Danny - "You totally miss the point. Which is that what might be appropriate action to prevent those deaths amongst the old is utterly not amongst the young." It's unfortunately that you constantly fail to take the opportunity to read the evidence that others supply you with. You're stuck thinking that it's only deaths that constitute the societal impacts from covid. I've given you abundant research showing the very substantial economic costs of covid stem mainly from preventable minor infections of the working age population. McKinsey's calculated that the average 1.5 days lost from work per infection was the single biggest impact from covid now, suppressing GDP by around 1% alone from memory. An analysis by German health insurers concluded covid tipped the country into recession, shaving 0.8% off GDP in 2023. This is on top of adding constant strain to the NHS - we've had record staff sickness levels starting in March 2020, it also continues to disrupt education, with record numbers of school absences among both pupils and teachers. Constant, 'mild' covid infections that are largely completely preventable, are exerting an enormous long term economic drain, and every analysis into the protections we could conclude that it would be highly cost effective to mitigate these.
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pjw1961
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Post by pjw1961 on May 8, 2024 16:18:46 GMT
It will be another positive news cycle for Labour In addition Elphick will also be the trump card played by Labour every time the tories attack Labour for being soft on immigration/small boats crossing. With her leaving at the next election also minimal local party disruption This seems to me to be the key point here. A win-win for Starmer. Party politics is often a deeply cynical game of wrong-footing opponents and opportunism. Part of what you have to do to win. You have to beat your opponents who happen to be on the same playing field, often playing dirty too. There's no point observing the niceties of fair play if your opponents have no concept of what that means. Elphicke is a mere pawn in the game in many respects. Useful for now. Except in this case Elphicke is less a pawn in chess than some kind of wild card in a card game. She is playing a game of her own in that her intention seems not so much to endorse Labour but to absolutely shaft Rishi Sunak as much as is possible for a relatively obscure backbench MP. And she has succeeded. |
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pjw1961
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Post by pjw1961 on May 8, 2024 16:23:02 GMT
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Post by shevii on May 8, 2024 16:25:27 GMT
This seems to me to be the key point here. A win-win for Starmer. Party politics is often a deeply cynical game of wrong-footing opponents and opportunism. Part of what you have to do to win. You have to beat your opponents who happen to be on the same playing field, often playing dirty too. There's no point observing the niceties of fair play if your opponents have no concept of what that means. Elphicke is a mere pawn in the game in many respects. Useful for now. Accepting the political angle to this, isn't this a bit like the message you were giving about Christian Wakeford when he defected to Labour from the Tories. Now rather than being a political pawn he is re-selected to represent Labour and getting some significant appointments within the party to boot? |
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pjw1961
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Post by pjw1961 on May 8, 2024 16:39:26 GMT
This seems to me to be the key point here. A win-win for Starmer. Party politics is often a deeply cynical game of wrong-footing opponents and opportunism. Part of what you have to do to win. You have to beat your opponents who happen to be on the same playing field, often playing dirty too. There's no point observing the niceties of fair play if your opponents have no concept of what that means. Elphicke is a mere pawn in the game in many respects. Useful for now. Accepting the political angle to this, isn't this a bit like the message you were giving about Christian Wakeford when he defected to Labour from the Tories. Now rather than being a political pawn he is re-selected to represent Labour and getting some significant appointments within the party to boot? To be fair to Wakeford, who I also had significant doubts about, he has played the role of loyal Labour MP for the last couple of years pretty well, with lots of urging of people to vote Labour in the neighbouring Bury seat as well as his own. Poulter's defection made more sense - as a centrist he could easily have been in Labour anyway - but Elphicke is a right-wing culture warrior. I suspect that post a GE, with the Tories sunk, she will reappear in Reform. |
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Post by mercian on May 8, 2024 16:42:25 GMT
mercian I am with Dave on this (obvs! Hurray for Jack Dash!). But I think you overlook one important feature of the supermarket checkout, and that is the few moments of social interaction with a known individual. It is prized and a tonic for many. Many people skip the automated service simply for the benefit of this (me for a kick-off). Sometimes people will stay in a particular queue just for a short chat with their favourite assistant ( to the bafflement of supervisors who want them in a shorter queue). Perhaps you see this as sad or small-minded? Don’t. That would be a big mistake. No I can see that for lonely people it might be a bright moment in the day. I use the machines if I just have a few items and there are queues. If there's a lot I use a manned checkout because they are quicker then me. |
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on May 8, 2024 16:49:15 GMT
It will be another positive news cycle for Labour In addition Elphick will also be the trump card played by Labour every time the tories attack Labour for being soft on immigration/small boats crossing. With her leaving at the next election also minimal local party disruption This seems to me to be the key point here. A win-win for Starmer. Party politics is often a deeply cynical game of wrong-footing opponents and opportunism. Part of what you have to do to win. You have to beat your opponents who happen to be on the same playing field, often playing dirty too. There's no point observing the niceties of fair play if your opponents have no concept of what that means. Elphicke is a mere pawn in the game in many respects. Useful for now. Thing as well is, that controlling immigration is traditionally a left-wing policy, to keep capital in check and contain the driving down of wages and inflation of housing costs due to immigration etc. Which is why the Tories haven’t been in a rush to reduce immigration, for all their bluster on the matter |
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on May 8, 2024 16:55:30 GMT
That’s the past and present covered, but you’re not ruling it out in future, Steve? |
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oldnat
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Post by oldnat on May 8, 2024 17:30:17 GMT
I didn't read Labour's "New Deal for Workers" in any detail, and (obviously) haven't seen the amended version sent out to the unions, so can't comment on the accuracy, or otherwise, of Unite's statement.
But it is a very strong statement!
www.unitetheunion.org/news-events/news/2024/may/labour-s-draft-new-deal-for-workers-now-unrecognisable
“It looks like all the warnings Unite made earlier about the dangers of Labour rowing back on its pledges for the New Deal for Workers have been proved right. This new Labour document on the New Deal, issued to the unions on Monday, is a row back on a row back. It is totally unrecognisable from the original proposals produced with the unions. Unrecognisable. Workers will see through this and mark this retreat after retreat as a betrayal.
“This new document is turning what was a real new deal for workers into a charter for bad bosses. Labour don’t want a law against fire and rehire and they are effectively ripping up the promise of legislation on a new deal for workers in its first 100 days. Instead, we have codes of conduct and pledges of consultation with big business. Likewise, the proposal to legislate against zero hours contracts is watered down to almost nothing.
“In truth this new document is not worthy of discussion. All unions must now demand that Labour changes course and puts the original New Deal for Workers back on the table.”
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oldnat
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Post by oldnat on May 8, 2024 17:40:24 GMT
"Andy Burnham's call for a pause to right-to-buy in Greater Manchester has been rejected by his own party.
Yesterday, Mr Burnham, who was re-elected as Labour mayor for Greater Manchester last week, unveiled plans to build 10,000 new council homes across Greater Manchester by 2028 and said the right-to-buy scheme should be suspended to allow "councils the breathing space they need to replenish their stock".
The scheme allows residents of council-owned properties to buy their homes at a lower price than full market value.
However, speaking on LBC yesterday shadow chancellor Rachel Reeves said that Labour has "no plans to reform" the scheme.
She said: "It’s an incoming Labour government that would determine the rules around right-to-buy, we have no plans to reform that.
"I don’t think it’s up to a mayor to suspend the right-to-buy scheme."
www.lgcplus.com/services/housing/shadow-chancellor-rejects-burnhams-plea-for-right-to-buy-pause-08-05-2024/
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on May 8, 2024 17:54:23 GMT
“Lord Kinnock has led a backlash against Sir Keir Starmer following Natalie Elphicke’s defection to Labour from the Conservative Party.
Ms Elphicke, the MP for Dover, stunned Westminster at lunchtime as she crossed the floor immediately before Prime Minister’s Questions and blamed Rishi Sunak for having “abandoned the centre ground”.
Speaking to Ben Riley-Smith, The Telegraph’s Political Editor, for BBC Radio 4’s The Week in Westminster, Lord Kinnock said: “The first question is how will she fare and how will she show commitment to her constituency over the remaining months to the general election. That’s up to her and up to them to reflect.
“As far the party is concerned more generally, I think we have got to be choosy to a degree about who we allow to join our party because it’s a very broad church but churches have walls and there are limits.
“Ms Elphicke has got to decide whether she is committed to the programme and principles of the Labour Party, broadly defined, generously defined with great liberal intentions*, but we are a political party and not a debating club.””
Telegraph
* almost makes one wonder why he didn’t join the liberal party in the first place…
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pjw1961
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Post by pjw1961 on May 8, 2024 18:19:32 GMT
I didn't read Labour's "New Deal for Workers" in any detail, and (obviously) haven't seen the amended version sent out to the unions, so can't comment on the accuracy, or otherwise, of Unite's statement.
But it is a very strong statement!
www.unitetheunion.org/news-events/news/2024/may/labour-s-draft-new-deal-for-workers-now-unrecognisable
“It looks like all the warnings Unite made earlier about the dangers of Labour rowing back on its pledges for the New Deal for Workers have been proved right. This new Labour document on the New Deal, issued to the unions on Monday, is a row back on a row back. It is totally unrecognisable from the original proposals produced with the unions. Unrecognisable. Workers will see through this and mark this retreat after retreat as a betrayal.
“This new document is turning what was a real new deal for workers into a charter for bad bosses. Labour don’t want a law against fire and rehire and they are effectively ripping up the promise of legislation on a new deal for workers in its first 100 days. Instead, we have codes of conduct and pledges of consultation with big business. Likewise, the proposal to legislate against zero hours contracts is watered down to almost nothing.
“In truth this new document is not worthy of discussion. All unions must now demand that Labour changes course and puts the original New Deal for Workers back on the table.” Unite didn't like it in the first place. It would be more interesting to hear from the unions that endorsed it at the time. |
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Post by alec on May 8, 2024 19:20:56 GMT
For those interested, a UK study published in the Lancet showing a substantial discrepancy between the numbers reporting self covid and the numbers recorded on electronic health records - www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(24)00744-X/fulltext#tbl1Interestingly, some of the most under recorded groups are children and ethnic groups, which fits with abundant other evidence that doctors are failing to properly identify and record covid related illness in children in particular, as well as being more prepared to identify long covid in white people (although it still appears heavily under recorded in this cohort). None of this is surprising to those who are following the science on this. It's been well known for a very long time now that doctors are struggling to understand the damage covid does to the human body, and when doctors don't understand something they have historically resorted to telling patients 'it's all in the mind'. The ongoing effects of covid on a societal level continue to be very significant, and until we recognise that for most, the acute phase is much less of an issue than the long term damage, we are unlikely to see substantial progress. |
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Post by alec on May 8, 2024 19:22:57 GMT
Best not to talk about Elphick porn. People have got into trouble for that kind of thing before.
Edit: Sorry - my mistake. Different kind of pawn. Just what was I thinking?
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oldnat
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Post by oldnat on May 8, 2024 19:33:42 GMT
Best not to talk about Elphick porn. People have got into trouble for that kind of thing before. Edit: Sorry - my mistake. Different kind of pawn. Just what was I thinking? |
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on May 8, 2024 19:45:21 GMT
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Post by hireton on May 8, 2024 19:47:52 GMT
oldnatRe Reeves saying "I don’t think it’s up to a mayor to suspend the right-to-buy scheme." So much for " a full fat approach to devolution".
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oldnat
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Post by oldnat on May 8, 2024 20:10:25 GMT
oldnat Re Reeves saying "I don’t think it’s up to a mayor to suspend the right-to-buy scheme." So much for " a full fat approach to devolution".
Those at the top get the full fat, while those further down the bottle (like English mayors) don't. |
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Post by bardin1 on May 8, 2024 20:14:22 GMT
Actually, for those of us who remember whole milk, where the cream rose to the top of the bottle, as opposed to modern homogenised milk, Reeve's/Starmer's version of devolution is "full fat".
Those at the top get the full fat, while those further down the bottle (like English mayors) don't. You're right - even the name was apt 'Gold Top' if I remember correctly   |
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Post by mark61 on May 8, 2024 20:17:38 GMT
I think Elphicke was one Labour should have said thanks, but no thanks to. Ok it undermines the PM just before PMQs and provides a few good quotes for the GE campaign but it also puts up two fingers to Labours left leaning Members and Supporters whose patience is already wearing thin. They should have waited a while, like a Bus there would have been another defector along in a minute.
On a more worrying note I wonder whether this coming GE will be the last not heavily influenced by AI fakery, I think a Royal Commission or something similar looking at this issue should be apriority for the incoming Govt.
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