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Post by jimjam on May 8, 2024 11:43:38 GMT
Shevii - preferred Fatima Mansions.
If Natalie Elphick stays a Labour Party member for the next 3-4 years and contributes I have no issue with her being a candidate for the GE in 28/9 if a CLP wishes to adopt but not for this one.
EDIT - ref Steve she standing down.
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robas
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Post by robas on May 8, 2024 11:52:22 GMT
Living in Kent, I have had the unfortunate privilege of having had to listen to many diatribes from Natalie Elphicke. She comes across as being on the right of the Conservative Party and is normally complaining about migrant crossings and often blaming the French govt for just about everything.
Pro Brexit and voted for legislation restricting trade union activity.
I have to say, it certainly never crossed my mind that she was ever a budding defector to the Labour Party, or that they would ever touch her with a barge pole!
A very strange decision by Labour, which they may come to regret. Heavens forfend that she becomes their candidate for Dover ( thank god she appears to be stepping down)
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Post by pete on May 8, 2024 11:55:26 GMT
I've said before that I can see a fundamental conflict between Labour's traditional socially progressive attitude and the views of those from other cultures many of whom have voted Labour in recent times. This isn't just Muslims but African Christians for instance. We saw in the local elections, particularly in the West Midlands that there was a very large vote for a man running mainly on a policy of protesting about Gaza, Kashmir and Khalistan. This was triggered by the conflict in Gaza, but we have also seen several iterations of Galloway mobilising this vote. I can't see how Labour can satisfy the extremely conservative (by western standards) social views of these voters while staying true to their own progressive instincts. They can't so they'll have to let them go. But those that don't vote Labour and pick Galloway or another will find they're a very small group with fewer seats than the Lib Dems but possibly more than Reform. |
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pjw1961
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Post by pjw1961 on May 8, 2024 11:55:59 GMT
Shevii - preferred Fatima Mansions. If Natalie Elphick stays a Labour Party member for the next 3-4 years and contributes I have no issue with her being a candidate for the GE in 28/9 if a CLP wishes to adopt but not for this one. EDIT - ref Steve she standing down. She might have to undergo a few changes of heart as well before I wanted to see her as a Labour MP. I've read her resignation statement and she remains distinctly enthusiastic about Boris Johnson: "The elected Prime Minister was ousted in a coup led by the unelected Rishi Sunak. Under Rishi Sunak, the Conservatives have become a byword for incompetence and division. The centre ground has been abandoned and key pledges of the 2019 manifesto have been ditched." Yuk. |
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Post by crossbat11 on May 8, 2024 11:55:59 GMT
The Elphicke defection is a jaw-dropper, certainly in the light of some of her past stances on issues and the melodramatic antics in Dover we've sometimes seen from her too.
Most defectors, whatever their political hue and whichever direction they cross the floor of the Commons, are usually only brief footnotes in history and soon disappear from view. Whither Howarth and Woodward now, for example, and I should imagine Elphicke is going to enjoy Warhol's famous period of fame but no longer.
But of course, personal stories are never the significance of these defections anyway. It's the optics, stupid.
The spectacle of a party and government dying and its replacement on its way.
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Post by alec on May 8, 2024 11:59:32 GMT
Didn't see Natalie Elphick coming as a Labour switcher.
But she has hit the nail on the head regarding Rishi's legacy. John Major was similarly gifted a party that had given up wanting to win and refused to allow itself to be governable, but Major did have some level of personal appeal and a sense of integrity. Sunak has, if anything, a more virulent ideological divide to straddle as party leader, but appears remote, lacking in instinct, very limited competence and even less skill in public communication.
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Post by graham on May 8, 2024 12:02:14 GMT
After allowing for several Independent MPs who have lost the Tory Whip but who de facto remain Tories - eg Matt Hancock & Bob Stewart - the Tory majority has now fallen from 80 in 2019 to circa 50 today.
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Post by pete on May 8, 2024 12:02:27 GMT
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neilj
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Post by neilj on May 8, 2024 12:05:45 GMT
As it looks like Elphick will stand down at the next election, her motive appears to be to damage Sunak as much as possible, who from past utterances she despises
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pjw1961
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Post by pjw1961 on May 8, 2024 12:07:38 GMT
The Elphicke defection is a jaw-dropper, certainly in the light of some of her past stances on issues and the melodramatic antics in Dover we've sometimes seen from her too. Most defectors, whatever their political hue and whichever direction they cross the floor of the Commons, are usually only brief footnotes in history and soon disappear from view. Whither Howarth and Woodward now, for example, and I should imagine Elphicke is going to enjoy Warhol's famous period of fame but no longer. But of course, personal stories are never the significance of these defections anyway. It's the optics, stupid. The spectacle of a party and government dying and its replacement on its way. True about the optics and it is very good news in that respect, but I somehow can't imagine Elphicke getting a rapturous reception from the Dover Labour members. I'm trying to imagine what it would be like to have Priti Patel walk through the doors of the Witham Labour Club as the new Labour MP.  |
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pjw1961
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Post by pjw1961 on May 8, 2024 12:11:44 GMT
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Post by jimjam on May 8, 2024 12:32:32 GMT
Monty Panesar's original decision was a 'wrong un'
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Post by leftieliberal on May 8, 2024 12:41:23 GMT
Caught in the slips without scoring. With a Test batting average of 4.88 that wasn't so unusual when he was at the wicket.  |
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Post by Mark on May 8, 2024 12:41:33 GMT
While Elphicke's defection may be good optics in the very short term....even though she won't be standing in '24, it does worry me what this says about Labour.
This is not simply Labour becoming more centrist, she is a right winger and Johnson supporter.
She is someone well to the right of Major, Hesiltine and more recent tories such as Rory Stewart and Tom Tugendhat.
I have long worried that Labour's answer to the small boats issue focuses too much on the "stopping" element, where almost 80% of those coming accross are deemed, even by this tory government, to have genuine claime, and too little on setting up safe and legal routes.
I hope that Elphicke joining the Labour ranks won't push them further in this direction.
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Post by EmCat on May 8, 2024 12:45:33 GMT
Shocker, Natalie Elphick defects to Labour That really is a strange one A few weeks back, and someone on here (who either has friends of friends involved in party management, or merely knows which political website/ blog sites to get the juicy info from) was quoting a bit exhorting MPs to spread out their announcements so that it wouldn't be a big shock all at once. Back then, the impression was that the announcements were of the "I'm not standing for re-election" type. Now, it looks as though it's "I'm defecting to another Party. (and probably not standing for re-election)" A regular stream of defections doesn't do much for making the average, not politically aware, person think "You know what. I really think I should give Rishi Sunak a chance" |
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Post by crossbat11 on May 8, 2024 12:46:34 GMT
Monty Panesar's original decision was a 'wrong un' Technically that would be a "Chinaman" in terms of left arm spin bowling. Gary Sobers bowled a decent Chinaman when he chose to bowl left arm slow. Mind you, such was his genius, he could also bowl pretty acceptable medium fast swing too. When he wanted to bowl quick, he could turn his arm to that as well. I also hear that he was a fairly decent batsman and slip fielder! |
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Post by crossbat11 on May 8, 2024 12:47:56 GMT
While Elphicke's defection may be good optics in the very short term....even though she won't be standing in '24, it does worry me what this says about Labour. This is not simply Labour becoming more centrist, she is a right winger and Johnson supporter. She is someone well to the right of Major, Hesiltine and more recent tories such as Rory Stewart and Tom Tugendhat. I have long worried that Labour's answer to the small boats issue focuses too much on the "stopping" element, where almost 80% of those coming accross are deemed, even by this tory government, to have genuine claime, and too little on setting up safe and legal routes. I hope that Elphicke joining the Labour ranks won't push them further in this direction. In my view, there's not a cat in hell's chance that she'll be remotely involved in Labour politics after the general election. |
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neilj
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Post by neilj on May 8, 2024 12:54:52 GMT
Agree with this, or atleast for the large majority
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Post by EmCat on May 8, 2024 13:11:20 GMT
Looking at Sunak's 5 pledges, and that is now 2 of them hit by defections:
Halve inflation
Grow the economy
Get debt falling
Cut NHS waiting lists - Dan Poulter
Stop the boats - Natalie Elphicke
Does that mean the next few weeks will have defections from MPs with backgrounds in economics / banking?
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Post by steve on May 8, 2024 13:13:02 GMT
Monty Panesar's original decision was a 'wrong un'
He's put a different spin on it.
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Post by moosepoll on May 8, 2024 13:18:12 GMT
How i miss the Conservative manifesto from 2015, it was aspirational and except for the brutal government destroying last bit had my vote even know I usually vote Labour. There was something in there for everyone just a shame about the EU referendum.
Extension of the right-to-buy scheme to housing association tenants in England
Plans to build 200,000 starter homes
Ensuring all people who work 30 hours per week on the minimum wage pay no income tax
Doubling free childcare allowance for three and four-year-olds to 30 hours
Increasing the inheritance tax threshold on family homes to £1m by 2017
No above-inflation rises in rail fares until 2020
An extra £8bn a year for the NHS by 2020
Opening 500 more free schools
An EU referendum by 2017
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Post by steve on May 8, 2024 13:18:15 GMT
Shock announcement as another Tory crosses the floor.  |
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Post by steve on May 8, 2024 13:29:18 GMT
Tories announce their new five pledges.  |
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Post by leftieliberal on May 8, 2024 13:31:34 GMT
Monty Panesar's original decision was a 'wrong un' I suppose I shouldn't expect anything better from a soccer supporter, but a Chinaman, is properly a left-arm wrist-spinner's googly. There isn't actually a name as far as I know for a finger-spinner's delivery that goes the wrong way. Monty Panesar was a left-arm finger spinner (like myself, incidentally although I only took one wicket - in a 'beer' match when every member of the team apart from the wicket-keeper had to bowl one over each. Our umpire threatened to no-ball me on the grounds that it was unfair that so atrocious a delivery could take a wicket). |
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Post by alec on May 8, 2024 13:40:56 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2024 13:46:44 GMT
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steve
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Post by steve on May 8, 2024 13:49:16 GMT
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Post by crossbat11 on May 8, 2024 13:58:17 GMT
Technically that would be a "Chinaman" in terms of left arm spin bowling. I suppose I shouldn't expect anything better from a soccer supporter, but a Chinaman, is properly a left-arm wrist-spinner's googly. There isn't actually a name as far as I know for a finger-spinner's delivery that goes the wrong way. Monty Panesar was a left-arm finger spinner (like myself, incidentally although I only took one wicket - in a 'beer' match when every member of the team apart from the wicket-keeper had to bowl one over each. Our umpire threatened to no-ball me on the grounds that it was unfair that so atrocious a delivery could take a wicket). Be careful. I am indeed a football (soccer???) supporter but a cricket man too, still following the game closely and having played it at a pretty decent club level for over 40 years. I wasn't a left arm orthodox spin bowler, not even in a beer match, alas, but my father was, ironically. I was using the Chinaman reference in reply to jimjam's wrong 'un metaphor for Panesar. It wasn't really a very serious comment and I was aware that the cricket terminology was being used fairly loosely. If a right arm finger spinner's wrong 'un, the one that mimics a leg break to a right handed batsmen, is a doosra, then maybe a left arm finger spinner's wrong 'un should be a loosra? If anyone's still awake at the back and reading this, you have my sincerest apologies!! |
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Post by graham on May 8, 2024 14:05:09 GMT
While Elphicke's defection may be good optics in the very short term....even though she won't be standing in '24, it does worry me what this says about Labour. This is not simply Labour becoming more centrist, she is a right winger and Johnson supporter. She is someone well to the right of Major, Hesiltine and more recent tories such as Rory Stewart and Tom Tugendhat. I have long worried that Labour's answer to the small boats issue focuses too much on the "stopping" element, where almost 80% of those coming accross are deemed, even by this tory government, to have genuine claime, and too little on setting up safe and legal routes. I hope that Elphicke joining the Labour ranks won't push them further in this direction. I cannot help wondering whether the likes of Nigel Farage and Nick Griffin would be warmly welcomed. |
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Post by shevii on May 8, 2024 14:10:03 GMT
Beyond her right wing views, even by Tory standards, this is particularly damning on a moral level- "improperly sought to influence judicial proceedings" which you'd expect a "human rights" lawyer to be deeply concerned about :
I doubt this makes any difference to Labour prospects- people already had enough information on the direction of the party and those that were influenced by this have already jumped ship. Labour obviously feel that having another Tory defector plays well and had they refused her the whip then this would never have become known anyway and they would never have got their headline. It does however say something about the morals of a party to allow her to take the whip for a news headline while refusing to resolve cases such as Diane Abbott.
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