pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
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Post by pjw1961 on May 24, 2024 14:46:16 GMT
PJW, Shevii is being ironic. Not sure what that has to do with the Leader of the Opposition standing at the dispatch box and repeating conspiracy theories. It was certainly as bad as Corbyn got in that role. I am worried that if some of the far-right loons touted as the next Tory leader get the same job after the GE that we may well get a repeat. 15 minute cities anyone? |
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steve
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Post by steve on May 24, 2024 14:46:37 GMT
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steve
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Post by steve on May 24, 2024 14:48:05 GMT
"Not sure what that has to do with the Leader of the Opposition standing at the dispatch box and repeating conspiracy theories ....I am worried that if some of the far-right loons touted as the next Tory leader get the same job after the GE that we may well get a repeat. "
I'm sure Ed will be a highly responsible leader of the opposition☺
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patrickbrian
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These things seem small and undistinguishable, like far off mountains turned into clouds
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Post by patrickbrian on May 24, 2024 14:50:11 GMT
As I wrote that, a splendid pseudo-newspaper with huge pictures of our Lib Dem candidate, Caroline Voaden, came through the door. Lib Dems quick off the mark here!
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Post by crossbat11 on May 24, 2024 14:50:58 GMT
Interesting photograph. Is that Theresa May's disowned love child on the far right (sic) holding the glass? The father is a matter for speculation, but there's something of the William Hague about him. |
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neilj
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Post by neilj on May 24, 2024 14:54:25 GMT
Beth Rigby
'Evennett’s decision to step down means that 76 Conservative MPs throwing in the towel, exceeding the number who quit ahead of Blair’s 1997 victory'
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Danny
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Post by Danny on May 24, 2024 14:58:23 GMT
'd love to predict that Labour will win big, but the shadows of 1992 and 2015 need to loom large in their thinking. I dont recall exactly what the polling was in 2015, but I seem to recall analysis of the result was that the lib vote collapsed gifting con many of their seats. Labour was rather watching from the sidelines. The coalition was a model of competent government compared to the Johnson/Sunak administration, and while many of us criticised libs for simply kowtowing to con, if you compare what happened then to this last term, the administration including the libs was massively better. In retrospect gives credance to their claims to have held back the worst excesses of the conservatives. Though it is also true that crop of conservative MPs was much more centrist than those who continued as MPs running a Brexit government from 2019.
1992 con were helped by John Major as the new leader who was and still seems to be regarded as a nice guy. A sensible tory.
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Danny
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Post by Danny on May 24, 2024 15:03:17 GMT
it'll still seem like a bit of a miracle to me when Starmer walks into number 10 (touch wood) next month. Certainly will be. Has the civil service invited him in early to choose curtains anticipating a win? |
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steve
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Post by steve on May 24, 2024 15:04:37 GMT
2015
6 weeks before the election Tories polling 36% Labour 34%
1992
Six weeks before the election Tories polling 40% Labour 39%
The similarities with now are uncanny.
Said nobody ever!
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Post by mark61 on May 24, 2024 15:06:05 GMT
PJW said .... "However, excessive gloating is not a good look ...".
... for those old enough, a certain rally in South Yorkshire thirty odd years ago, will forever be engraved on our consciousnesses until we depart this mortal coil. We've tried a sense of entitlement once, we weren't comfortable with us, it didn't suit us and we saw its consequences. Never again. So whilst I like Marr a lot, he is entirely wrong to identify a "sense of entitlement" within Labour. I'd like to see Marr or anyone for that matter, try to provide evidence of this non-existent thing. Anyway, on sense of entitlement, I think us Labourites generally have its opposite 'quality' - whatever we want to call it - pessimism, fatalism, insufficient confidence, humility - pick your own word. I see us as the West Ham fans of the political world. Loyal, passionate, as hopeful as we can be whilst knowing that our rivals have dominated us for most of our existence. Silver-ware is rare, whilst theirs has piled up. Defeat can be grasped from the jaws of victory a la 1992 and I'd add 2015 to that. I refer you to the 2006 FA Cup Final for example (shudders at the memory). So even when we, Labour, are now poll-wise, the equivalent of being three up with fifteen minutes to go, the nervousness is still there because our silverware is so rare, we still expect it to not come as easily as the armchair fans of other clubs looking on, think it will be for us. So there you are, Labour supporters of all other clubs - you're honorary irons now - you can thank me for it later. Dave the Football analogy works for me, I'll see your West Ham and raise it with Birmingham City! The more you have invested in the result the more nervous you get. It took me ages to get over 1992, I convinced myself Milibands 35% strategy would deliver a win in 2015 and the first Election I ever Canvassed/voted in, 1979 I got a rude awakening and 18 years of Tory Rule. I will be nervous as a kitten waiting for that exit Poll. I know that Labour will most likely run a tepid campaign but I take heart when I read Andrew Marr who likens Starmer to Brown rather than Blair and believes that the project is long term and transformative, well here's hoping. |
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Danny
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Post by Danny on May 24, 2024 15:06:15 GMT
pjw1961So neither on UKPR2 nor in real life will Lab activists be using the spectre of a Tory victory to herd all anti-Tory voters into the Lab fold? There's an amnesty for supporters of minor parties or none? Hurrah! But not for Dianne Abbott. Couple of arrows sticking out of labour spokespersons when that was brought up in comparison with treatment of Natalie Elphicke. |
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steve
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Post by steve on May 24, 2024 15:08:54 GMT
"But not for Dianne Abbott. Couple of arrows sticking out of labour spokespersons when that was brought up in comparison with treatment of Natalie Elphicke"
Natalie Elphicke will not be standing for Labour at the general election, either!
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steve
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Post by steve on May 24, 2024 15:15:49 GMT
And people wonder why the UK is seen as an international laughing stock!  |
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Post by lululemonmustdobetter on May 24, 2024 15:42:24 GMT
And people wonder why the UK is seen as an international laughing stock! |
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steve
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Post by steve on May 24, 2024 15:53:59 GMT
 It's party time. |
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steve
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Post by steve on May 24, 2024 15:57:41 GMT
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Post by johntel on May 24, 2024 15:59:26 GMT
Good to see my old friend John Sweeney standing for the Lib Dems in Sutton Coldfield against Andrew Mitchell. Can any of you locals predict how he'll do?
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Post by lululemonmustdobetter on May 24, 2024 16:01:29 GMT
OMG - must be BOTS if it was an online vote.
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Dave
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... I'm dreaming dreams, I'm scheming schemes, I'm building castles high ..
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Post by Dave on May 24, 2024 16:06:08 GMT
Dave the Football analogy works for me, I'll see your West Ham and raise it with Birmingham City! OK Mark, unlike your football team, you win  Mind, I've had two of the worst footballing experiences of my life at St Andrews - I've triggered myself - where's the strong cider?  |
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Post by barbara on May 24, 2024 16:08:25 GMT
I've got all three DVDs of "That's Entertainment", the first of which I saw at the cinema in Liverpool in 1974. (My boyfriend in what can only be described as a superb act of self sacrifice took for me for my 21st birthday.) The beauty of it is that almost all of the great MGM musical stars werel still alive and feature in the film as narrators. This first film contains all (3 I think) versions of Singing In The Rain that appeared in MGM musicals. Yes. Look out for numbers 2 and 3. When I was a kid in the 50s these musicals (among other vintage films) were on TV ( just BBC (1) and ITV) every Sunday afternoon so I grew up with them. |
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Post by leftieliberal on May 24, 2024 16:12:30 GMT
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pjw1961
Member
Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
Posts: 8,572
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Post by pjw1961 on May 24, 2024 16:24:48 GMT
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Post by jayblanc on May 24, 2024 16:31:39 GMT
There will presumably be a lot more sitting MPs removed by the electorate soon. For comparison 72 Conservative MPs retired before the 1997 General Election, so there was a fair exodus then as well, and 126 Tory MPs were defeated. (figures from the Times guide to the 1997 GE) Yes, I’m not just thinking about the impact of those retiring, but the whole thing, all the factors creating a runaway effect. How bad do things have to get till there is no way back? They already have. The point of no return was 23 September 2022. The Conservative Party has ended up in a place where the people who select its leadership can select someone like Truss. They can't change that without changing the people who are members of The Conservative Party. I see no sign that the post-election Conservative Party is going to be humbled and ready to move back to the saner grounds, it's now made up of people who would do the exact opposite in belief that if they only shout their slogans harder people will see the light. Meanwhile, the Greenbelt-NIMBY-AntiULEZ* set have decamped to the local Independents and Hale-Fellow-Well-Met-Tory-Greens, Farage wants to turn party politics into a business that generates Media Pundit opportunities, and Cummings wants to destroy the Conservative Party to replace it with his Neo-Futurist movement. None of them seem capable of actually putting together a national political force, so there's going to be a vacuum in the right of centre in British politics, and no one knows who's going to fill it. (*I have met people who manage to encompass all ranges of this. They are of the opinion that they support all the Green stuff, but oppose all this hassle of sorting their rubbish into different bins, and think all Electric Cars are going to start exploding if you bump into them, and don't get them started on Cyclists...) |
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
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A step on the way toward the demise of the liberal elite? Or just a blip…
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on May 24, 2024 16:32:27 GMT
How are we supposed to enjoy our Portillo moments if they all decide to retire at the last minute? followed by the installation of a new PM who won't address the climate and biodiversity crises. An opportunity missed - I never expected to contemplate the demise of a Tory government with so little hope in my heart. . We haven’t discussed biodiversity on here much compared to climate change (and esp. energy), though naturally the two are related. What would you say are the key requirements for addressing biodiversity Athena? (Or indeed others who might have ideas) |
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Post by thylacine on May 24, 2024 16:45:43 GMT
followed by the installation of a new PM who won't address the climate and biodiversity crises. An opportunity missed - I never expected to contemplate the demise of a Tory government with so little hope in my heart. . We haven’t discussed biodiversity on here much compared to climate change (and esp. energy), though naturally the two are related. What would you say are the key requirements for addressing biodiversity Athena? (Or indeed others who might have ideas) Farming practices and forestry management spring to mind as do river and water management. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2024 16:49:13 GMT
Looks like Ten Hag is to be sacked.
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Post by leftieliberal on May 24, 2024 16:53:03 GMT
For ITV because it was deemed to be a private broadcaster. This does raise the possibility that GB News could run programmes with just ReformUK during the election campaign and the only recourse would be a complaint to OfCom, which has already shown itself toothless in dealing with GB News. We are getting very close to political advertisements being allowed. |
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Post by nickpoole on May 24, 2024 16:55:06 GMT
Yes, I’m not just thinking about the impact of those retiring, but the whole thing, all the factors creating a runaway effect. How bad do things have to get till there is no way back? They already have. The point of no return was 23 September 2022. The Conservative Party has ended up in a place where the people who select its leadership can select someone like Truss. They can't change that without changing the people who are members of The Conservative Party. I see no sign that the post-election Conservative Party is going to be humbled and ready to move back to the saner grounds, it's now made up of people who would do the exact opposite in belief that if they only shout their slogans harder people will see the light. Meanwhile, the Greenbelt-NIMBY-AntiULEZ* set have decamped to the local Independents and Hale-Fellow-Well-Met-Tory-Greens, Farage wants to turn party politics into a business that generates Media Pundit opportunities, and Cummings wants to destroy the Conservative Party to replace it with his Neo-Futurist movement. None of them seem capable of actually putting together a national political force, so there's going to be a vacuum in the right of centre in British politics, and no one knows who's going to fill it. (*I have met people who manage to encompass all ranges of this. They are of the opinion that they support all the Green stuff, but oppose all this hassle of sorting their rubbish into different bins, and think all Electric Cars are going to start exploding if you bump into them, and don't get them started on Cyclists...) It's conceivable that the future is Labour (centre) with Greens as growing opposition, while Reform and the Tory rump argue over who owns the swastiki |
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Post by jayblanc on May 24, 2024 16:56:23 GMT
Maybe I'm politically naive, but I would have thought it somewhat obvious that when visiting Belfast during your election campaign, you don't stop for press interviews at the Titanic Centre.
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oldnat
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Extremist - Undermining the UK state and its institutions
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Post by oldnat on May 24, 2024 17:11:10 GMT
I can see the problems for the LDs and Greens in E&W being denied the oxygen of publicity, but I'm not sure that it applies to Plaid or the SNP, where it would seem impossible to exclude them from the Welsh/Scottish TV debates, which probably matter more. That's even more true in NI, where the spoutings of the English leaders are largely irrelevant to anything.
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