c-a-r-f-r-e-w
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A step on the way toward the demise of the liberal elite? Or just a blip…
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on May 24, 2024 17:15:34 GMT
Yes, I’m not just thinking about the impact of those retiring, but the whole thing, all the factors creating a runaway effect. How bad do things have to get till there is no way back? (*I have met people who manage to encompass all ranges of this. They are of the opinion that they support all the Green stuff, but oppose all this hassle of sorting their rubbish into different bins, and think all Electric Cars are going to start exploding if you bump into them, and don't get them started on Cyclists...) Strikingly similar to quite a number of Telegraph comments! I do wonder if this fate lies in wait for many parties who might get quite a lot of what they were initially looking for. The people who are keen to keep pushing for a particular ideology aren’t happy with enacting the more everyday aspects, they keep pushing for more and more extreme aspects, taking them further and further away from reality and the electorate. In this case it might be neoliberalism but it can happen with other ideologies/parties |
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oldnat
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Extremist - Undermining the UK state and its institutions
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Post by oldnat on May 24, 2024 17:17:57 GMT
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Post by Rafwan on May 24, 2024 17:21:25 GMT
It was always all about Jeremy in the end. Glastonbury 2017 the pinnacle. To be fair to Corbyn, the aftermath Grenfell was probably his finest hour. He got it right, May hopelessly wrong. The nadir was his reaction to the Salisbury poisoning. What exactly was his reaction? And why was it a nadir? |
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
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A step on the way toward the demise of the liberal elite? Or just a blip…
Posts: 6,700
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on May 24, 2024 17:21:34 GMT
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
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Post by pjw1961 on May 24, 2024 17:26:22 GMT
Maybe I'm politically naive, but I would have thought it somewhat obvious that when visiting Belfast during your election campaign, you don't stop for press interviews at the Titanic Centre. I don't think it is you that is politically naive!  Apparently Issac Levido advised against having the election now. Given how it has started, I have a image of him sat in a basement at Conservative Central Office, door locked, head in hands, muttering "Why me?" |
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Post by nickpoole on May 24, 2024 17:29:07 GMT
They already have. The point of no return was 23 September 2022. The Conservative Party has ended up in a place where the people who select its leadership can select someone like Truss. They can't change that without changing the people who are members of The Conservative Party. I see no sign that the post-election Conservative Party is going to be humbled and ready to move back to the saner grounds, it's now made up of people who would do the exact opposite in belief that if they only shout their slogans harder people will see the light. Meanwhile, the Greenbelt-NIMBY-AntiULEZ* set have decamped to the local Independents and Hale-Fellow-Well-Met-Tory-Greens, Farage wants to turn party politics into a business that generates Media Pundit opportunities, and Cummings wants to destroy the Conservative Party to replace it with his Neo-Futurist movement. None of them seem capable of actually putting together a national political force, so there's going to be a vacuum in the right of centre in British politics, and no one knows who's going to fill it. (*I have met people who manage to encompass all ranges of this. They are of the opinion that they support all the Green stuff, but oppose all this hassle of sorting their rubbish into different bins, and think all Electric Cars are going to start exploding if you bump into them, and don't get them started on Cyclists...) It's conceivable that the future is Labour (centre) with Greens as growing opposition, while Reform and the Tory rump argue over who owns the swastiki I see the LDs as a sort inverse UKIP - a single issue party dedicated to getting back into the EU - I think Lab will just inch us there by stealth |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2024 17:29:58 GMT
Apparently there are around 200 vacancies for Tory candidates if anybody fancies giving it a crack.
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
Posts: 8,572
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Post by pjw1961 on May 24, 2024 17:35:34 GMT
To be fair to Corbyn, the aftermath Grenfell was probably his finest hour. He got it right, May hopelessly wrong. The nadir was his reaction to the Salisbury poisoning. What exactly was his reaction? And why was it a nadir? Failure to recognise that use of a nerve agent on UK soil by a hostile power required a different type of response from the Leader of Opposition made it his lowest point in that role. I like Corbyn in many ways and wish he was still in Labour, but he was hopelessly out of his depth on the front bench. |
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Post by nickpoole on May 24, 2024 17:50:38 GMT
yeah what it required was ineffectual tub thumping, meaningless non-threats and wrapping yourself in a flag. As suggested elsewhere - the UK response stopped Putin in his tracks and headed off invasion of Ukraine. |
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Post by shevii on May 24, 2024 17:51:18 GMT
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domjg
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Post by domjg on May 24, 2024 17:52:35 GMT
It's conceivable that the future is Labour (centre) with Greens as growing opposition, while Reform and the Tory rump argue over who owns the swastiki I see the LDs as a sort inverse UKIP - a single issue party dedicated to getting back into the EU - I think Lab will just inch us there by stealth The LDs are a huge local gvt powerhouse far beyond brexit issues and have been for decades to one extent or another. Whatever you think of them that's very very different from Reform who barely exist beyond Farage and Tice. Agree that Labour will realign by stealth. Hopefully they won't be too slow about it. |
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Post by Rafwan on May 24, 2024 17:59:51 GMT
Thanks, PJ. I just faintly recall my own feeling at the time was slight relief that not everybody was rushing in with all guns firing. Probably terribly naive of me!!
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Post by EmCat on May 24, 2024 18:03:56 GMT
That almost sounds encouraging, that his support is not only drifting away, but also not bothering to turn up in the first place. |
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domjg
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Post by domjg on May 24, 2024 18:07:33 GMT
Thanks, PJ. I just faintly recall my own feeling at the time was slight relief that not everybody was rushing in with all guns firing. Probably terribly naive of me!! Ah the (fortunately) old German SPD approach, IE let people like Putin cause death and destruction but if we stand up to them we're the 'sabre rattlers' and 'war mongers'. |
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domjg
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Post by domjg on May 24, 2024 18:10:45 GMT
I find it strange that so many still appear to have an emotional connection to Corbyn after four years. He's political ancient history now.
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Post by Rafwan on May 24, 2024 18:11:30 GMT
Certainly not my view, Dom. Nor remotely what I was suggesting.
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Post by lefthanging on May 24, 2024 18:11:53 GMT
I've just seen we're being denied a Gove Moment too! Nooooo!
Seriously, while I doubt voters will pay much attention to the absolute numbers, the sense that a good number of Tory big beasts are stepping aside will surely add to the narrative (already started in the media's initial response to Sunak's surprise early election) that the Conservatives are just giving up.
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oldnat
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Extremist - Undermining the UK state and its institutions
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Post by oldnat on May 24, 2024 18:18:11 GMT
I've just seen we're being denied a Gove Moment too! Nooooo! Seriously, while I doubt voters will pay much attention to the absolute numbers, the sense that a good number of Tory big beasts are stepping aside will surely add to the narrative (already started in the media's initial response to Sunak's surprise early election) that the Conservatives are just giving up. |
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Post by bedknobsandboomstick on May 24, 2024 18:18:23 GMT
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oldnat
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Extremist - Undermining the UK state and its institutions
Posts: 6,131
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Post by oldnat on May 24, 2024 18:22:43 GMT
Thanks, PJ. I just faintly recall my own feeling at the time was slight relief that not everybody was rushing in with all guns firing. Probably terribly naive of me!! Ah the (fortunately) old German SPD approach, IE let people like Putin cause death and destruction but if we stand up to them we're the 'sabre rattlers' and 'war mongers'. |
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
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A step on the way toward the demise of the liberal elite? Or just a blip…
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on May 24, 2024 18:25:42 GMT
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domjg
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Post by domjg on May 24, 2024 18:30:27 GMT
Ah the (fortunately) old German SPD approach, IE let people like Putin cause death and destruction but if we stand up to them we're the 'sabre rattlers' and 'war mongers'. I understand where it comes from just that the in part understandable reaction blinded them to reality and logic. Also they were prone to overly fixate their guilt towards Russia (and of course Israel in a different way, the protection of which is considered a Staatsrason, or defining purpose of the state) while ignoring the countries in-between Germany and Russia that had been devastated by both sides (Brandt kneeling in Warsaw excepted perhaps). |
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Post by crossbat11 on May 24, 2024 18:30:29 GMT
Jeez, as old Col was wont to say. Corbyn, West Ham and Birmingham City. Three of my all time favourite subjects all on one of page of UKPR.
It doesn't get much better than this. Just need Crystal Palace to make an appearance.
Oh hang on...
Time to go....
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
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Post by pjw1961 on May 24, 2024 18:31:30 GMT
I've just updated my State by State electoral college polling analysis for the latest polls and, whisper it quietly, there is just the hint of an improvement for Biden across several key states. It does depend in part on Democrat sponsored polling, so might revert with the next set of polls, but worth watching to see if it is the beginning of something. We shall see.
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
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A step on the way toward the demise of the liberal elite? Or just a blip…
Posts: 6,700
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on May 24, 2024 18:33:10 GMT
Oh yeah, Birmingham City… Dave the Football analogy works for me, I'll see your West Ham and raise it with Birmingham City! OK Mark, unlike your football team, you win  Mind, I've had two of the worst footballing experiences of my life at St Andrews - I've triggered myself - where's the strong cider? St Andrews was our home ground for a while. We don’t own our own ground you know (I think we finished above Birmingham City while using their ground tho’) |
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Danny
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Post by Danny on May 24, 2024 18:34:15 GMT
Maybe I'm politically naive, but I would have thought it somewhat obvious that when visiting Belfast during your election campaign, you don't stop for press interviews at the Titanic Centre. The band kept playing to the very end. Any parallels? |
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
Posts: 8,572
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Post by pjw1961 on May 24, 2024 18:39:21 GMT
yeah what it required was ineffectual tub thumping, meaningless non-threats and wrapping yourself in a flag. As suggested elsewhere - the UK response stopped Putin in his tracks and headed off invasion of Ukraine. I don't recall Theresa May thumping any tubs; she seemed pretty shocked. Ian Blackford for the SNP later called it an "act of state terrorism" and demanded stronger action against Russia. The Scottish Nationalists are rarely accused of wrapping themselves in the Union flag. It wasn't difficult to get the right tone, but Corbyn couldn't manage it. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-45432713 |
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oldnat
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Extremist - Undermining the UK state and its institutions
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Post by oldnat on May 24, 2024 18:43:57 GMT
YG poll - response to announcement of election
Eng Wal Sco
29 24 32 Pleased
26 22 22 Indifferent
23 26 28 Optimistic
15 14 15 Pessimistic
14 14 12 Excited
9 18 5 Bored
8 6 9 Frustrated
5 3 7 Scared
5 5 4 Stressed
2 3 3 Angry
2 2 1 Unhappy
10 9 14 None of these
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oldnat
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Extremist - Undermining the UK state and its institutions
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Post by oldnat on May 24, 2024 18:51:56 GMT
yeah what it required was ineffectual tub thumping, meaningless non-threats and wrapping yourself in a flag. As suggested elsewhere - the UK response stopped Putin in his tracks and headed off invasion of Ukraine. I don't recall Theresa May thumping any tubs; she seemed pretty shocked. Ian Blackford for the SNP later called it an "act of state terrorism" and demanded stronger action against Russia. The Scottish Nationalists are rarely accused of wrapping themselves in the Union flag. It wasn't difficult to get the right tone, but Corbyn couldn't manage it. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-45432713
The contrast with the rampant UK Unionism on show in England is very marked. |
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steve
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Post by steve on May 24, 2024 18:54:19 GMT
 Michael Gove has joined the now record-breaking exodus of Conservative MPs quitting the Commons, with the levelling up secretary saying it was time for a “new generation” to lead the party. Gove’s announcement in a letter tweeted on Friday evening had been anticipated by some given the strong Liberal Democrat challenge he faces in his Surrey Heath constituency, but adds to the sense of Tories fleeing in the face of a likely general election loss. |
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