Danny
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Post by Danny on Jan 26, 2024 6:18:52 GMT
Post brexit rade talks with Canada collapse. Still, considering the new conservative deal with Australia was considered to benefit the Australians and not us, maybe thats a good thing.
The US talks ended some time ago, of course.
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Jan 26, 2024 6:20:00 GMT
mercian “ …. saying he'd catch me if I jumped off a wall and then moving away when I did.” That explains a lot. That may sound a bit cruel and vindictive but I promise that is not intended. That is not the sort of thing any parent should do. Dad had been a regular soldier and he told me that's what sergeant-majors did to new recruits. I was about 7. Jumping 8-10 foot onto concrete left a bit of a mark physically and otherwise. yeah, need to be careful not to chip that concrete.
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Jan 26, 2024 6:25:03 GMT
NHS consultants vote AGAINST Sunak’s pay deal More problems for the Government Government cannot afford to make good doctors loss of pay. Probably mostly because it has no funding model to maintain public sector pay, basically it has no idea how to truly balance the national budget because these services are deemed essential, but it refuses to raise taxes. The plus side though is it can blame failing NHS performance on ongoing NHS strikes, which are not the cause.
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Sales of electric vehicles starting to struggle now the novelty value has worn off and the prices have failed to drop.
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Jan 26, 2024 6:27:14 GMT
Incredible fact that Cinton first became President 31 years ago and he's younger than either Trump or Biden
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Jan 26, 2024 6:46:26 GMT
Let's start with a couple of arguments against a voluntary army: 1. It's not voluntary, in the strict sense. This is clearest if you look at the US. University education in the US is frighteningly expensive and completely out of reach of lots of young people because of that. Their only chance of getting a degree and getting on in life is to get the armed forces to pay Of course, since a university degree is deemed an essential requirmenet for life, then it is arguable that getting one is itself not voluntary, and people are already doing three years national service forced to attend university. so then you want to add some more years serving in the military, so thats 4 or 5 years of productive working lifetime lost?
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Jan 26, 2024 7:05:37 GMT
Re-the Tory score of just 9% in 18-25 year olds (and not much more than that in the 26-49 age group). I don't know, but, suspect that is historically low for one of the 2 major parties. I have posted before about the younger cohort being socially much more liberal / less conservative than their older peers and much less swayed by the right wing "culture wars", but, I think a much wider - and more wide ranging poll is in order given the level of antipathy to a major party. Quite a turnaround too within my lifetime. A majority of the 18-25 age group voted for Thatcher in 1979 and 1983! Alternatively, we are now 45 years on from 1979, so the then 18-25 group is now the 63- 70 age group, which is where support for con firms up. So that isnt any sort of turnaround for those people, they started off voting con and ended up voting con. There was similar evidence those taking part in both EU membership referenda also voted the same way, ie the young against membership first time became the old against this time. Whereas the old(ish) voting for membership first time became the scarce and very ancient voting for this time too, and the new young cohort this time voted for membership. So do people realy change as they age, or does society change so they start off differently, then stay fixed?
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Jan 26, 2024 7:16:19 GMT
Re Athena's plan for a type of civic national service, I can't see the young being Overjoyed with the Oldsters further adding to their burden! Maybe we could start wit the over 65's doing Community service in return for their Pension and free health care! if the goal is to benefit the state, making pensioners work for free seems much more likely to be effective. These people have inherently far more earning power than teens, which presumably reflects real worth we would gain and since they already have an income would not need one additionally. So we could eg get doctors to do an extra years work for free, lawyers, bankers engineers, politicians, everyone at least in not too physically strenuous occupations, which do tend to be the most valued ones. I wonder, does it suddenly sound rather different if those on the brink of retirment are asked to work an extra year for free instead of 20 year olds being paid by the state to do so?
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Jan 26, 2024 8:10:48 GMT
Haha, update on the postoffice scandal.
Seems that when in 2014 the PO sacked the independant forensic accountants investigating the losses (because they didnt like what they were finding), it did so with the agreement of government.... to prevent this independant assessment.
Con have done nothing but prevent the thousands of people affected by this from getting justice and compensation, and they still are. Far from ordering the PO to make public the facts, they abetted the coverup and are still doing so.
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Post by hireton on Jan 26, 2024 8:16:54 GMT
More Tory psychodrama re that Frost poll:
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
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Post by pjw1961 on Jan 26, 2024 8:18:43 GMT
Just the one local government by-election today and (unusually for a Scottish one) not that interesting. STIRLING UA; Dunblane & Bridge of Allan (Con resigned) Candidates: ANDREWS, Clare Pauline (Green) HEALD, Thomas (Conservative) KHAN, Ahsan (SNP) MOERMAN, Dick (Liberal Democrat) WILLIS, Michael (Scottish Family Party) WILSON, David (Labour) Mar 23by: Con 1832 (elected); SNP 1202; Lab 600; LD 399; Grn 389; SFP 50 (Con gain from SNP) 2022: Con 1536 (elected), 598; SNP 1266 (elected), 564; Grn 1138 (elected); Lab 842 (elected); LD 665; Alba 61; SFP 50 The Conservatives regularly top the poll here and, given the unionist v nationalist element to Scottish politics tends to protect the Tories somewhat from the unpopularity of the Westminster government, anything other than "Con hold" seems unlikely. The result: HEALD, Thomas (Scottish Conservative and Unionist) 1,644 KHAN, Ahsan (Scottish National Party) 1,000 WILSON, David (Labour) 869 ANDREWS, Clare Pauline (Scottish Greens) 433 MOERMAN, Dick (Scottish Liberal Democrat) 292 WILLIS, Michael (Scottish Family Party) 50 Electorate 11,778; BPs 4,315; rejected BPs 27. Thomas Heald elected at stage 6. Conservative hold. First preferences Con 38.3% SNP 23.3% Lab 20.3% Green 10.1% LD 6.8% SFP 1.2% Changes from 2023 By Election Con -2.6 SNP -3.6 Lab +6.9 Green +1.4 LD -2.1 SFO +0.1 changes since 2022 Con +6.5 SNP -3.9 Lab +7.8 Green -6.8 LD -3.1 SFP +0.5
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Post by moby on Jan 26, 2024 8:19:53 GMT
The reality of brexit Today's Guardian UK-Canada trade talks break down in beef over cheese
The UK has walked away from post-Brexit trade talks with Canada in what one expert described as a “blow to the government’s trade story”.
Canada said the breakdown in talks came because the UK insisted on maintaining restrictions on its agricultural products, of which beef treated with hormones has been a persistent problem. The BBC on Friday reported that the beef dispute was a key factor in the failure of talks.
British cars will also face tariffs from the end of April when imported to Canada. Canada had already imposed a 245% tariff at the start of the year on British cheeses such as stilton and cheddar if they fell outside the already existing quota for non-EU imports.
In a statement posted on X, a British government spokesperson said “we reserve the right to pause negotiations with any country if progress is not being made”.
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pjw1961
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Post by pjw1961 on Jan 26, 2024 8:31:35 GMT
The reality of brexit Today's Guardian UK-Canada trade talks break down in beef over cheese The UK has walked away from post-Brexit trade talks with Canada in what one expert described as a “blow to the government’s trade story”. Canada said the breakdown in talks came because the UK insisted on maintaining restrictions on its agricultural products, of which beef treated with hormones has been a persistent problem. The BBC on Friday reported that the beef dispute was a key factor in the failure of talks. British cars will also face tariffs from the end of April when imported to Canada. Canada had already imposed a 245% tariff at the start of the year on British cheeses such as stilton and cheddar if they fell outside the already existing quota for non-EU imports. In a statement posted on X, a British government spokesperson said “we reserve the right to pause negotiations with any country if progress is not being made”. Sir Bufton Tufton, Conservative back bencher and ardent supporter of Brexit, commented: "Countries in the Empire rebelling? Send a gunboat at once. These colonial chappies were supposed to save us from needing to rely on Johnny Foreigner."
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Post by thylacine on Jan 26, 2024 8:45:49 GMT
Re Athena's plan for a type of civic national service, I can't see the young being Overjoyed with the Oldsters further adding to their burden! Maybe we could start wit the over 65's doing Community service in return for their Pension and free health care! if the goal is to benefit the state, making pensioners work for free seems much more likely to be effective. These people have inherently far more earning power than teens, which presumably reflects real worth we would gain and since they already have an income would not need one additionally. So we could eg get doctors to do an extra years work for free, lawyers, bankers engineers, politicians, everyone at least in not too physically strenuous occupations, which do tend to be the most valued ones. I wonder, does it suddenly sound rather different if those on the brink of retirment are asked to work an extra year for free instead of 20 year olds being paid by the state to do so? I do like this idea Danny. Much better than conscription for the young. Tax benefits on pensions could be withheld till community service completed. Those in caring professions of health,education etc could be exempt as considered as already having contributed other select professions could be penalised with extra years 🤣
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Post by crossbat11 on Jan 26, 2024 8:46:57 GMT
robbiealiveThanks for the post about the historical voting behaviour of the younger members of the electorate. It supported my vaguely remembered hunch with something rather more authoritative and informed. A service my ramblings often require and one that my favourite UKPR contributors often provide. It's one of the reasons I still frequent this place. Along with it providing me with an opportunity to witter on about various sports and pastimes, childhood nostalgia, obscure Essex delicacies and, most importantly, to wallow in favourable opinion polls! All this to little effect or purpose, but it keeps me vaguely diverted and amused. Harmless, really.
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Jan 26, 2024 8:55:53 GMT
The reality of brexit Today's Guardian UK-Canada trade talks break down in beef over cheese The UK has walked away from post-Brexit trade talks with Canada in what one expert described as a “blow to the government’s trade story”. Canada said the breakdown in talks came because the UK insisted on maintaining restrictions on its agricultural products, of which beef treated with hormones has been a persistent problem. The BBC on Friday reported that the beef dispute was a key factor in the failure of talks. British cars will also face tariffs from the end of April when imported to Canada. Canada had already imposed a 245% tariff at the start of the year on British cheeses such as stilton and cheddar if they fell outside the already existing quota for non-EU imports. In a statement posted on X, a British government spokesperson said “we reserve the right to pause negotiations with any country if progress is not being made”. Sir Bufton Tufton, Conservative back bencher and ardent supporter of Brexit, commented: "Countries in the Empire rebelling? Send a gunboat at once. These colonial chappies were supposed to save us from needing to rely on Johnny Foreigner." If the UK can't get a deal with Canada and the one with Australia was considered to be self-defeating then really what are the chances anywhere else?
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Post by athena on Jan 26, 2024 9:00:22 GMT
Re Athena's plan for a type of civic national service, I can't see the young being Overjoyed with the Oldsters further adding to their burden! Maybe we could start wit the over 65's doing Community service in return for their Pension and free health care! :) I anticipated this objection and I couldn't think of a good solution. The trouble is that people working now won't be able to retire until they're already old enough that a sizeable proportion would struggle with even a part-time commitment. I won't be eligible for a state pension until I'm 67 or 68 (it keeps going up) and there's a roughly 50 percent chance that I'll already have moderate-to-severe symptoms of Alzheimer's disease. I suppose you could have a voluntary scheme for current pensioners (it's just not going to be worth making it compulsory and doing assessments to exempt people with physical or mental frailty), but I think it would probably be counterproductive - you'd find you were just paying a service wage* to the pensioners who currently volunteer their services. You could have a campaign to encourage more to do their bit - try and apply some social pressure - but I'm not terribly keen. I think the result would be older women feeling guilty and trying to do roles they can't manage, whilst the rich city folk who retired in comfort at 55 continue to swan around the golf course, telling themselves that earning so much money so quickly was so stressful that they deserve their leisure. I also think you'll find that quite a lot of pensioners already do voluntary work. In specialist roles the majority of volunteers are retired professionals, in other roles it's a mix of retirees, people combining volunteering with other commitments, young people trying to improve their employability and people with mental health problems who've found it difficult to get or keep full-time work. *Seems I need to emphasise that people doing citizen service would be paid a proper wage (not prison-style pittance).
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Post by barbara on Jan 26, 2024 9:02:28 GMT
I'm suggesting a sort of obligatory, universal citizen service, with military and civil options and a fairly wide window (say 18-30 years) in which to complete it. This is very approximately the system they used to have (probably still do) in France, although they do penalise conscientious objectors quite severely (the civilian alternative is several months longer than military service and stigmatised in some quarters). Many, many years ago I spent my gap year in France, volunteering with the LPO (League pour la Protection des Oiseaux). It was in its infancy and a much smaller organisation than the RSPB and its handful of reserves had, at most, one paid warden, all the other work was done by conscientious objectors and the occasional volunteer like me. So I'm envisaging a system where citizen servants choose military or civil service (no penalty for choosing the civilian option) and have a wide range of options available. Probably three pay rates, civil, military and highly qualified (for anyone doing a role that requires a university-level qualification). Budding professionals (medics, lawyers, engineers, coders, whatever) could choose to gain some work experience or opt for something completely different and spend their service providing care to older people, building flood defences, assessing homes for retro-fitting as part of the energy transition, restoring upland forests, working as a research technician etc. etc. All the people for whom formal education isn't a success would get another chance to get training and experience (that might lead to a career) in a different context that might suit them better than school or college did. They wouldn't face a choice between the military or the scrapheap. No stigma and plenty of opportunity to network with people from different backgrounds, on different career paths. Everyone (male and female) would be expected to contribute something to their society, in one way or another. Obviously government adjusts the mix of placements according to what it judges we need. And in a crisis we could call up people with relevant citizen service experience to help out (would have been very handy during the pandemic...). To be honest this would been a fantastic opportunity for me. I have friends now who did VSO but people from my very working class background were not even aware this opportunity existed. I would have opted for the civil version (perhaps with foreign travel) and I'm certain it would have broadened my horizons (at 18 I'd never been to a proper play or a concert or a proper restaurant, or abroad or virtually anything outside my immediate surroundings), it would have built my self confidence and I would almost certainly have chosen a different career path from teaching which was the only 'profession' my parents and I knew of. I'm sure it would have broadened my social circle as well, which has taken many years to do under my existing life. It would also have probably at least delayed and possibly prevented my first disastrous marriage ( which everyone I knew was doing in their early 20s). Perhaps the real benefits of such a scheme would be to the working classes. Those families who provide all those benefits themselves to their children will understandably be much less interested in it.
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Post by alec on Jan 26, 2024 9:04:27 GMT
Several people have commented on the collapse of the Canadian trade talks. While I haven't read any expert analysis of this, I'd offer two notes of caution here.
Trade talks usually 'collapse', and then the deal is magically done. There is often a theatrical element here, sometimes done to convince the losers on one side or another that the deal's a good'un. There's nothing like a bit of performative flouncing to help politicians claim they bargained hard. Whether that's the case here I don't know, but objectively, it would be strange for both sides in this one to decline the chance of a deal, given where they were under the EU deal. Of course, that deal won't be as good for the UK as the EU deal, because we've lost leverage, and those divergences may well be the sticking point here. But I would eventually expect a deal to be done.
The second point is a kind of 'so what'. The anti Brexiters (myself included) make a point of being honest about the impact of the post Brexit trade deals when they get announced (limited, far less significant than Brexiters imagine) and the reverse applies here. It's not great to see trade terms reverse, but equally, with Canada, it won't make much difference overall. It's more a sign of our global weakness than a great economic hit.
But there's no question that it's one of several stories today bringing Brexit realities into further sharp focus. It remains a major mistake, and we've lacked the government of sufficient quality to start addressing the shortfalls.
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Post by wb61 on Jan 26, 2024 9:13:03 GMT
Re-the Tory score of just 9% in 18-25 year olds (and not much more than that in the 26-49 age group). I don't know, but, suspect that is historically low for one of the 2 major parties. I have posted before about the younger cohort being socially much more liberal / less conservative than their older peers and much less swayed by the right wing "culture wars", but, I think a much wider - and more wide ranging poll is in order given the level of antipathy to a major party. Quite a turnaround too within my lifetime. A majority of the 18-25 age group voted for Thatcher in 1979 and 1983! It wasn't ever thus in other words. That grouping is now between 58 and 70 so it would appear that their views have changed little.
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Post by hireton on Jan 26, 2024 9:16:29 GMT
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Jan 26, 2024 9:19:23 GMT
Techne NEW POLL: Labour regains edge as Conservatives see support dip:
Lab: 44% (+1) Con: 24% (-1) Lib Dem: 10% (-1) Reform: 9% (=) Green: 7% (+1) SNP: 3% (=) Others: 3% (=)
👥 1,641 surveyed 🗓️ +/- 17/18 Jan 2024
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Post by barbara on Jan 26, 2024 9:30:23 GMT
Quite a turnaround too within my lifetime. A majority of the 18-25 age group voted for Thatcher in 1979 and 1983! It wasn't ever thus in other words. That grouping is now between 58 and 70 so it would appear that their views have changed little. Boomers who'd never had it so good!
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Post by crossbat11 on Jan 26, 2024 9:31:23 GMT
Techne NEW POLL: Labour regains edge as Conservatives see support dip: Lab: 44% (+1) Con: 24% (-1) Lib Dem: 10% (-1) Reform: 9% (=) Green: 7% (+1) SNP: 3% (=) Others: 3% (=) 👥 1,641 surveyed 🗓️ +/- 17/18 Jan 2024 I'm amused that a 2% increase in the lead from an already whopping 18% one is regarded as "Labour regaining edge". What the hell is this pollster's definition of "neck-and-neck" I wonder??
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Jan 26, 2024 9:36:15 GMT
Re Athena's plan for a type of civic national service, I can't see the young being Overjoyed with the Oldsters further adding to their burden! Maybe we could start wit the over 65's doing Community service in return for their Pension and free health care! I anticipated this objection and I couldn't think of a good solution. The trouble is that people working now won't be able to retire until they're already old enough that a sizeable proportion would struggle with even a part-time commitment. I won't be eligible for a state pension until I'm 67 or 68 (it keeps going up) and there's a roughly 50 percent chance that I'll already have moderate-to-severe symptoms of Alzheimer's disease. I suppose you could have a voluntary scheme for current pensioners (it's just not going to be worth making it compulsory and doing assessments to exempt people with physical or mental frailty), but I think it would probably be counterproductive - you'd find you were just paying a service wage* to the pensioners who currently volunteer their services. You could have a campaign to encourage more to do their bit - try and apply some social pressure - but I'm not terribly keen. I think the result would be older women feeling guilty and trying to do roles they can't manage, whilst the rich city folk who retired in comfort at 55 continue to swan around the golf course, telling themselves that earning so much money so quickly was so stressful that they deserve their leisure. I also think you'll find that quite a lot of pensioners already do voluntary work. In specialist roles the majority of volunteers are retired professionals, in other roles it's a mix of retirees, people combining volunteering with other commitments, young people trying to improve their employability and people with mental health problems who've found it difficult to get or keep full-time work. *Seems I need to emphasise that people doing citizen service would be paid a proper wage (not prison-style pittance). Conscription in Germany was discontinued (but is only 'on hold' so can be restarted relatively easily if needed) in 2011. There was always an alternative to do civilian service instead and I knew young people who worked in hospitals etc rather than going to the military. It was very common to do something other than military service. You could also I believe arrange your own volunteering if that were approved. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription_in_Germany
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2024 9:49:31 GMT
An interesting take on the topic I raised recently-the right shift in EU vs the left shift in UK:-
Emma Duncan in -"Keir Starmer must heed Europe’s rightward drift-Young people across the EU are voting for illiberal parties but in Britain, for now, they’re unmoved" ( Times) writes :-
"For as long as I have been politically conscious, Britain has been to the right of the European mainland. Sure, we have had Labour leaders when France and Germany have had conservative ones, but whatever the name of the ruling party, on the European mainland the state is generally larger and more active, and social policy has generally been of the more liberal, immigrant-welcoming variety.
Now, our relationship with Europe appears to be flipping. All over the Continent, new right-wing parties are on the rise, fuelled largely by hostility to immigration. On the basis of their current positions in the polls, they’re forecast to win or make a strong showing in 18 of the EU’s 27 member states in this summer’s elections."
She goes on to mention the right shift in member state politics across EU.
"Right-wing parties tend to gain their support disproportionately from the old, but the new European right is relatively young. In the Saxony-Anhalt state elections in Germany in 2021, the AfD came top among under-thirties. In the presidential run-off in France, Marine Le Pen won 44 per cent of the under-35s’ vote and 30 per cent of the over-65s. Her party’s president — she is its figurehead — is 28. In the Netherlands, Wilders’s party won more of the under-35 than the over-35 vote. The age profile of the new right suggests that what we’re witnessing may be more than a transitory phenomenon. People’s political views, like their musical tastes, tend to be formed when they are young. If Europe’s youth is moving right, there’s a good chance that the Continent’s political centre of gravity may shift in that direction and stay there for the foreseeable future."
( this is what Andrew Marr described as a shift to " a dark place" recently in his NS podcast )
Duncan then ponders whether this demographic might show similar signs in UK:-
"I find the idea implausible. The Conservatives are polling at 9 per cent and Reform at 3 per cent among 18 to 24-year-olds; Labour is on 60 per cent."
and concludes that :-"I suspect that we will find ourselves to the left of Europe for some time to come; even so, whoever next runs this country needs to deal with the main issue that is fuelling the rise of the right in Europe better than Rishi Sunak has."
I couldn't agree more.
......apropos of which it is good to see Olaf Sholz' reaction to anti-democratic solutions to the right shift in his country :-
"Speaking to Die Zeit, a weekly news magazine, he said the mood in the country was “unsettled” and “insecure” as it groped its way towards a new economic model after the ructions unleashed by Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine in early 2022. “Beyond that, you can feel that the pandemic has changed our way of living together. Overall I perceive a greater irritability than before,” Scholz said."
"“Honestly, [the proposed ban] doesn’t convince me,” he said. “[Höcke] is politically awful and he has dreadful views. His words sound like an echo of Germany’s darkest times. “That’s why it’s so important that we as democratic citizens make a stand together so that he can’t unleash the havoc that is brewing in his head.”"
( Times)
From a man whose personal approval ratings have fallen to 28 per cent, the lowest recorded by a chancellor in decades, and whose party has slipped to 13 per cent in the polls.-behind AfD , those are courageous & the appropriate words in my book.
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Post by crossbat11 on Jan 26, 2024 9:51:41 GMT
That grouping is now between 58 and 70 so it would appear that their views have changed little. Boomers who'd never had it so good! Maybe their youthfully acquired political views and voting habits became ingrained over the subsequent years but I have some understanding as to why Thatcherism may have appealed to this age group. She offered real change and her politics appealed to a significant segment of that generation bored and uninspired by exhausted Labourism, corporatism and what they may have thought were limited opportunities for self advancement. Thatcher promised to unleash enterprise and reward aspiration. The thrill of a new era approaching. Home ownership, low tax and the unchaining of over-regulated workplaces, many seen to be held back by over-powerful trade unions. I often try and walk in other people's shoes in politics and being alive in that era informs me too. Thatcher generated excitement and enthusiasm amongst many young voters who knew nothing other than Labour Governments wrestling with enormous economic challenges and industrial unrest. I got the political sentiment abroad in the country at the time and I sort of understood it too. So did Jim Callaghan in his mournful 1979 election mid campaign admission. The winds of political change were blowing. Sunny Jim sensed it. Of course, much of it was quack remedy and false dawn, but Thatcherism rewarded many of this younger generation with what they felt they'd voted for. Opportunity and a much higher standard of living. Aspirational is a cliché in politics, but it's a powerful thing when properly defined. Chase dreams, hopefully realise them too. Especially when you're young. Nothing much wrong with it too. Politicians who mock aspiration usually flounder. The tragedy was that Thatcherism delivered so much misery and lost opportunity for so many too. She got away with it electorally though and the astute Labour people I was with at the time came to understand why, as we lost time after time during 1980s Understanding why your political opponents prosper is a very important pre-requisite to eventually beating them.
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Post by steamdrivenandy on Jan 26, 2024 9:52:28 GMT
Recent poll figures have got me wondering how many people, when asked by a pollster, actually state the party that they end up voting for? How many state who they want in power, rather than who they'll vote for? How many have already thought about tactical voting and answer accordingly? How many state they'll definitely vote, but don't? How many give false responses just out of devilment? Obviously these are issues polling companies presumably wrestle with all the time.
Are there, for instance those saying they'll vote Ref. who have no intention of doing so, but say they will to put pressure on the Tories, who they'd actually never dream of abandoning.
The same could be occurring with, say Green and Labour, or even Ref and Labour.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2024 9:59:04 GMT
Robbie’s ode to mercian should be presented to Pete on a plaque to hang over his fireplace - and make his family proud on a daily basis. “Thank you for your inexhaustible capacity to voice weary, unevidenced, and discredited ideas.”
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Post by jimjam on Jan 26, 2024 10:15:35 GMT
Colin,
I think one problem with Emma Duncan's thesis is that the fulcrum in the UK is probably more right wing than in the rest of Western Europe.
So when it comes to public/private ownership, taxation levels and how progressive, welfare payments, employment rights and many others areas the UK sits to the right of most of Western Europe; meaning there has to be quite a shift to make the UK more left wing.
Just like the UK centre of gravity is to the left of the US.
It may be that the support for the extreme right is greater in Western Europe but that is a different thing.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2024 10:19:22 GMT
2) If you would lower the voting age because it would benefit Labour isn't that a form of gerrymandering in itself? I don't see why voter id is. On the contrary it will prevent some election fraud, though not alas for postal votes. Ah-I see you mentioned the unmentionable -with predictable response. Fear not-there's always another opinion in a democracy Like this one eg thecritic.co.uk/the-case-for-voter-id/I get the impression sometimes that this argument revolves around the proposition that there is a group of people in this country who would be so seriously rendered underprivileged & disenfranchised by an ID system of the sort practiced routinely in many other countries , that it can never be contemplated here. Isn't that the issue which should really be examined ?
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