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Post by steamdrivenandy on Jan 26, 2024 10:19:41 GMT
I've just realised that the current boring and repetitive 'Labour don't have a plan' mantra has actually been hoisted from earlier left wing criticism of Starmer. It's rather ironic that the left have gifted the right with a stick to try and beat Labour with.
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Post by steamdrivenandy on Jan 26, 2024 10:25:26 GMT
2) If you would lower the voting age because it would benefit Labour isn't that a form of gerrymandering in itself? I don't see why voter id is. On the contrary it will prevent some election fraud, though not alas for postal votes. Ah-I see you mentioned the unmentionable -with predictable response. Fear not-there's always another opinion in a democracy Like this one eg thecritic.co.uk/the-case-for-voter-id/I get the impression sometimes that this argument revolves around the proposition that there is a group of people in this country who would be so seriously rendered underprivileged & disenfranchised by an ID system of the sort practiced routinely in many other countries , that it can never be contemplated here. Isn't that the issue which should really be examined ? I'm obviously being dense here but who would be 'seriously rendered underprivileged & disenfranchised by an ID system'?
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Post by crossbat11 on Jan 26, 2024 10:33:49 GMT
2) If you would lower the voting age because it would benefit Labour isn't that a form of gerrymandering in itself? I don't see why voter id is. On the contrary it will prevent some election fraud, though not alas for postal votes. Ah-I see you mentioned the unmentionable -with predictable response. Fear not-there's always another opinion in a democracy Like this one eg thecritic.co.uk/the-case-for-voter-id/I get the impression sometimes that this argument revolves around the proposition that there is a group of people in this country who would be so seriously rendered underprivileged & disenfranchised by an ID system of the sort practiced routinely in many other countries , that it can never be contemplated here. Isn't that the issue which should really be examined ? I think you're missing the point. Many of the people who fear the voter disenfranchisement effects of mandatory ID requirements at polling stations,do so on the basis not of principled opposition to personal ID as such but because to introduce the requirement now, in our less than universally applied ID availability world, excludes a large number of people and prevents them voting. I favour personal ID cards for a variety of reasons, not least proof of voting eligibility. I think it's a fairly non-intrusive part of citizenship, to be honest, and has a multitude of benefits and uses. I think a lot of libertarians on the right oppose it and they fought hard against Blair when he briefly proposed the introduction of personal ID cards.
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Post by Mark on Jan 26, 2024 10:41:57 GMT
Happened to catch most of Question Time this evening from Gillingham, Kent. LAB in the Blair years, but CON by 15,000 now. A plurality of the audience apparently voted Tory last time around. The Tory panellist, Alex Burghart MP, did not endear himself to those watching, still, after 14 years, blaming LAB for problems, and once again rolling out the 'LAB has no plan' mantra which has clearly been emailed to every CON MP. His contributions were mainly met with either stony silence, and I mean silence, or just plain laughter. ...and that, particularly the latter, is the killer. All politicians of all stripes get shouted at from time to time on such programmes, particularly when implementing an unpopular policy. To an extent (as long as a policy isn't fatally unpopular), this can be ridden out, even overcome...but, laughter and derision? That is a fatal blow.
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Post by jib on Jan 26, 2024 10:42:30 GMT
On the ID cards, these were introduced on a voluntary basis but were formally withdrawn by 2011 when the Conservative/Liberal Democrat Coalition formed after the 2010 general election announced that the ID card scheme would be scrapped. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_Cards_Act_2006Another short sighted decision and these would have been valid documents for passport free travel to the Schengen zone as well.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2024 10:43:47 GMT
Colin, I think one problem with Emma Duncan's thesis is that the fulcrum in the UK is probably more right wing than in the rest of Western Europe. So when it comes to public/private ownership, taxation levels and how progressive, welfare payments, employment rights and many others areas the UK sits to the right of most of Western Europe; meaning the has to be quite a shift to make the UK more left wing. Just like the UK centre of gravity is to the left of the US. It may be that the support for the extreme right is greater in Western Europe but that is a different thing. Yes jimjam . I know what you mean. And the economic component is certainly a different thing to the Social component . I dont have the knowledge to compare demographics with the whole continent.But it is an interesting thought that Starmer may not be dealing with the systemically Social Democrat EU which we have been used to.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2024 10:49:50 GMT
Ah-I see you mentioned the unmentionable -with predictable response. Fear not-there's always another opinion in a democracy Like this one eg thecritic.co.uk/the-case-for-voter-id/I get the impression sometimes that this argument revolves around the proposition that there is a group of people in this country who would be so seriously rendered underprivileged & disenfranchised by an ID system of the sort practiced routinely in many other countries , that it can never be contemplated here. Isn't that the issue which should really be examined ? I'm obviously being dense here but who would be 'seriously rendered underprivileged & disenfranchised by an ID system'? Perhaps I am being dense ?-I thought the argument was that there is a demographic-the young ?-the less well off?-immigrants ? -who for financial and/or cultural reasons will not acquire photo ID. Thus they will be disenfranchised in a photo ID voting regime. Is that wrong?. Or was there a different objection to photo ID ?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2024 10:51:49 GMT
Ah-I see you mentioned the unmentionable -with predictable response. Fear not-there's always another opinion in a democracy Like this one eg thecritic.co.uk/the-case-for-voter-id/I get the impression sometimes that this argument revolves around the proposition that there is a group of people in this country who would be so seriously rendered underprivileged & disenfranchised by an ID system of the sort practiced routinely in many other countries , that it can never be contemplated here. Isn't that the issue which should really be examined ? I think you're missing the point. Many of the people who fear the voter disenfranchisement effects of mandatory ID requirements at polling stations,do so on the basis not of principled opposition to personal ID as such but because to introduce the requirement now, in our less than universally applied ID availability world, excludes a large number of people and prevents them voting. Yes-thats what I assumed and was refering to.
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steve
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Post by steve on Jan 26, 2024 10:53:09 GMT
"Another short sighted decision and these would have been valid documents for passport free travel to the Schengen zone as well."
Well at least until you and the rest of team luddite decided to shoot everyone in the foot and leave the European union.
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pjw1961
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Post by pjw1961 on Jan 26, 2024 11:00:49 GMT
2) If you would lower the voting age because it would benefit Labour isn't that a form of gerrymandering in itself? I don't see why voter id is. On the contrary it will prevent some election fraud, though not alas for postal votes. Ah-I see you mentioned the unmentionable -with predictable response. Can I note - because we have been round this loop before - that there are quite a lot of people on the left of politics who would support the introduction of ID cards, which in turn would largely resolve the ID voting problem. Last time this was debated on here the LoC posters split roughly 50/50 on the issue of for/against ID cards. I am in favour because anyone who has tried to get a new job or open a bank account will know that having to prove your identity is now routine and passports and photo-driving licences are basically state ID cards by default. I have a passport solely to act as an ID card.
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pjw1961
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Post by pjw1961 on Jan 26, 2024 11:06:47 GMT
I'm obviously being dense here but who would be 'seriously rendered underprivileged & disenfranchised by an ID system'? Perhaps I am being dense ?-I thought the argument was that there is a demographic-the young ?-the less well off?-immigrants ? -who for financial and/or cultural reasons will not acquire photo ID. Thus they will be disenfranchised in a photo ID voting regime. Is that wrong?. Or was there a different objection to photo ID ? It is not just an argument. The Electoral Commission have found it to be the case that the ID requirement discriminates against particular groups, although not always the ones the Tories intended. "Voters needed to show photographic identification (ID) to vote in a polling station, and this report draws on a wider range of evidence to build on our June 2023 interim analysis. It confirms the interim findings that most people who wanted to vote were able to do so, but that some groups struggled to meet the ID requirement. Our evidence indicates that this stems from two overlapping issues: variations in levels of ownership of accepted ID, and in awareness of the new requirement." www.electoralcommission.org.uk/research-reports-and-data/our-reports-and-data-past-elections-and-referendums/report-may-2023-local-elections-england
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2024 11:16:19 GMT
Perhaps I am being dense ?-I thought the argument was that there is a demographic-the young ?-the less well off?-immigrants ? -who for financial and/or cultural reasons will not acquire photo ID. Thus they will be disenfranchised in a photo ID voting regime. Is that wrong?. Or was there a different objection to photo ID ? It is not just an argument. The Electoral Commission have found it to be the case that the ID requirement discriminates against particular groups, although not always the ones the Tories intended. "Voters needed to show photographic identification (ID) to vote in a polling station, and this report draws on a wider range of evidence to build on our June 2023 interim analysis. It confirms the interim findings that most people who wanted to vote were able to do so, but that some groups struggled to meet the ID requirement. Our evidence indicates that this stems from two overlapping issues: variations in levels of ownership of accepted ID, and in awareness of the new requirement." www.electoralcommission.org.uk/research-reports-and-data/our-reports-and-data-past-elections-and-referendums/report-may-2023-local-elections-englandI find it weird how people criticise something when a very simple search - like the above - speedily proves that they are, like Daisie chasing squirrels, barking up the wrong tree.
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Post by barbara on Jan 26, 2024 11:31:53 GMT
Further to my previous post about some form of national service, I've just been listening to James O'Brien on LBC who has been conducting a phone in about the comments from senior military about our unpreparedness for a NATO war with Russia, particularly in the light of Trump's threat to withdraw the US from NATO should he win in November. Among some interesting contributions was one from a woman who said that her school required everyone to join one of the OTCs (either RAF or Army.) She said it was a fantastic experience, she thoroughly enjoyed it and it gave her so much stimulation and confidence and prepared her well for her future life. James O'Brien replied, 'I guess you went to private school", and she said she did.
So once again those who are already advantaged through birth and/or background, can access the kinds of opportunities that those from narrower backgrounds are excluded from.
It would transform our society if the haves and have nots were to mix in their formative years in mutual activities that allowed all of them to shine and develop.
This is what transformed Britain after WW2. The middle and upper classes were thrown together with the proletariat in the forces and in conscripted employment and were both shocked at the impoverishment and ignorance they encountered and impressed with and disgusted by the wasted talents and resources that the country had among the wider population and didn't appreciate or utilise. It was one of hte major reasons for the landslide Labour victory in 1945.
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Post by crossbat11 on Jan 26, 2024 11:32:57 GMT
The Klopster on his bike at the end of the season, I see.
For robbiealive's benefit, and other resident kickball sceptics, this can be translated as follows. Layman's language.
Jurgen Klopp, the current Manager of Liverpool FC, will be stepping down from the role at the end of the football season.
I shall miss him. Strangely.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2024 11:36:34 GMT
Perhaps I am being dense ?-I thought the argument was that there is a demographic-the young ?-the less well off?-immigrants ? -who for financial and/or cultural reasons will not acquire photo ID. Thus they will be disenfranchised in a photo ID voting regime. Is that wrong?. Or was there a different objection to photo ID ? It is not just an argument. The Electoral Commission have found it to be the case that the ID requirement discriminates against particular groups, although not always the ones the Tories intended. "Voters needed to show photographic identification (ID) to vote in a polling station, and this report draws on a wider range of evidence to build on our June 2023 interim analysis. It confirms the interim findings that most people who wanted to vote were able to do so, but that some groups struggled to meet the ID requirement. Our evidence indicates that this stems from two overlapping issues: variations in levels of ownership of accepted ID, and in awareness of the new requirement." www.electoralcommission.org.uk/research-reports-and-data/our-reports-and-data-past-elections-and-referendums/report-may-2023-local-elections-englandBut my point was why don't we find out how that "variation" and "awareness" can be dealt with. They seem strangely solvable issues to me. How are they.addressed on the Continent. Is this really a cultural objection?
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Post by crossbat11 on Jan 26, 2024 11:40:40 GMT
A reasonably interesting weather report here from old Ted the Northern Cat. We should sometimes remember the effect high winds can have in small animals, as no doubt Crofty will shortly confirm. I gather his infamous mutt Daisie was last seen flying over Bamburgh Castle yesterday after one of crofty's canine escorted strolls was hit by a sudden powerful south-westerly gust. youtube.com/shorts/sr3ZAOmmoTg?si=0WG7Sxc9B34t5gha
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Post by Mark on Jan 26, 2024 11:43:19 GMT
I remain opposed to compulsory ID.
Firstly, it is a stick for the police / authorities to beat anyone they don't like the look of with.
A copper stops someone and asks for ID, "sorry, I left it at home" wouldn't cut it, especially if the person being asked was being done so because the person doing the asking was in whatever way, acting, consiously or not, i a biased way.
This would happen to already marginalised groups (just look at stop and search data), as well as, for example, people being stopped to prevent them attending a protest demonstration.
Also, some people like to travel light in this world...no social media, no data-mining store cards, not even a library membership.
More and more difficult in this digital world, yes.
As to identity itself, most people have ID of some form, for example a birth certificate, something less likely to be stolen / used in fraud than what many people use as ID...what has changed is such things are no longer an accepted form of ID for those situations that require them.
As to elections, yes, there are isolated cases of fraud, but, even the electoral commission states they are minimal. Compare that to the thousands that have already been turned off voting or were actually turned away at polling stations.
The new voter ID rules are nothing short of vote-rigging...even Jacob Rees-Mogg admits that much.
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pjw1961
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Post by pjw1961 on Jan 26, 2024 12:02:49 GMT
It is not just an argument. The Electoral Commission have found it to be the case that the ID requirement discriminates against particular groups, although not always the ones the Tories intended. "Voters needed to show photographic identification (ID) to vote in a polling station, and this report draws on a wider range of evidence to build on our June 2023 interim analysis. It confirms the interim findings that most people who wanted to vote were able to do so, but that some groups struggled to meet the ID requirement. Our evidence indicates that this stems from two overlapping issues: variations in levels of ownership of accepted ID, and in awareness of the new requirement." www.electoralcommission.org.uk/research-reports-and-data/our-reports-and-data-past-elections-and-referendums/report-may-2023-local-elections-englandBut my point was why don't we find out how that "variation" and "awareness" can be dealt with. They seem strangely solvable issues to me. How are they.addressed on the Continent. Is this really a cultural objection? If you look on page 2 of the report linked to above you will find the Electoral Commission made 5 recommendations to government to improve the position: Review the list of accepted ID Improve access to the Voter Authority Certificate for voters Provide options for voters who do not have or cannot access any form of accepted ID Polling station staff should continue to collect data on the impact of voter ID at future elections The electoral community should work to improve the collection of data at polling stations for future elections See report for details.
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Post by robbiealive on Jan 26, 2024 12:04:32 GMT
Ah-I see you mentioned the unmentionable -with predictable response. Can I note - because we have been round this loop before - that there are quite a lot of people on the left of politics who would support the introduction of ID cards, which in turn would largely resolve the ID voting problem. Last time this was debated on here the LoC posters split roughly 50/50 on the issue of for/against ID cards. I am in favour because anyone who has tried to get a new job or open a bank account will know that having to prove your identity is now routine and passports and photo-driving licences are basically state ID cards by default. I have a passport solely to act as an ID card. The discussion is being side-tracked into ID cards. The issue re Voter ID is not whether we should have ID cards but whether requiring voter ID in the absence of a national ID system, i.e. in the here & bloody now, is (a) justified by evidenced levels of voter fraud in personal voting & (b) has a serious effect in discouraging voting. (a) colin quotes thecritic.co.uk/the-case-for-voter-id/. A piece of uber-tendentious & obfuscating waffle. It claims to be justifying Voter ID but the only case of voter fraud it cites concerns postal voting! which is irrelevant. It speculates that polling-booth fraud could hv won Labour a few more seats in 2017 without providing any evidence of fraud or explaining why a series of random events would all point in the same direction. One for the conspiracy theorists I think. (b) The evidence about people being prevented from voting is those turned away inside or outside the polling station. It cannot account for those who never set out to the polling station in the first place! Last year in the locals I realised I had no Voter ID on the way to the polling station. I didn't return! The Tory case for Voter ID is prveting fraud - there isn't any to speak of. And bringing us into line with Europe - it doesn't. The hilarious thing is that people who claim to speak for the "ordinary voter " are not willing to call out this piece of gerrymandering. Now colin is asking how they deal with problems of Voter ID on the Continent. The answer is that every country you can think of has compulsory IDs that kick in when people reach voting age & which people are used to providing for many purposes. There isn't a problem.
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Post by leftieliberal on Jan 26, 2024 12:06:34 GMT
I hope that the CPS are already looking at how much more evidence they need to prosecute the Directors and senior management of the Post Office for conspiracy to pervert the course of justice: www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68079300Paula Vennells can always become a voluntary Prison Chaplain.
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Post by wb61 on Jan 26, 2024 12:12:46 GMT
I hope that the CPS are already looking at how much more evidence they need to prosecute the Directors and senior management of the Post Office for conspiracy to pervert the course of justice: www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68079300Paula Vennells can always become a voluntary Prison Chaplain. For information: the police investigate not the CPS- the CPS will make a charging decision based on evidence gathered by the police.
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steve
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Post by steve on Jan 26, 2024 12:16:30 GMT
Mark It would rather depend if "compulsory" ID came with a requirement to have it in your possession at all times.
In Spain the Documento Nacional de Identidad is compulsory for all people over 14, it's free and acts effectively as a passport within the European union and a number of other European countries, it also replaces the need for young people to carry paid for identification for age verification such as purchasing a drink. It carries a photo and the Número de identificación fiscal (NIF) a sort of national insurance number.
If you are a foreigner living in Spain as I was you get a special version Tarjeta de Identidad de extranjero (TIE) or Foreign Identity Card with its own Número de identidad de extranjero (NIE) or Foreign Identity Number which is equivalent to the NIF.
Everyone who is required to have a DNI are obligated to show the card to the authorities if asked. While people aren't required to have the DNI on hand at all times, they are required to identify themselves and give it to the police officer if having it on themselves.
You can't be detained for failure to have it unless there are additional reasons for doubting the person's identity you can be required to produce it at a later date, in exactly the same manner as applies with a UK driving licence if stopped by police while driving in the U.K.
The current version of the card can be picked up from police stations, there's no significant delay.
Spanish people don't in general regard it as an imposition of an infringement of their liberties , it's handy to carry , quick to apply for and receive and benefits over UK paid for identification by being free. There are some vulnerabilities with the system as with any digital identification. While cards do get lost and stolen it's relatively easy to get a replacement.
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Jan 26, 2024 12:21:17 GMT
Maybe their youthfully acquired political views and voting habits became ingrained over the subsequent years but I have some understanding as to why Thatcherism may have appealed to this age group. She offered real change and her politics appealed to a significant segment of that generation bored and uninspired by exhausted Labourism, corporatism and what they may have thought were limited opportunities for self advancement. Thatcher promised to unleash enterprise and reward aspiration. The thrill of a new era approaching. Home ownership, low tax and the unchaining of over-regulated workplaces, many seen to be held back by over-powerful trade unions. Lots there. From what I remember I dont recall aspiration to unleash enterprise being impressive, more what all politicians say. There was real discontent with union discontent and waves of strikes, there were problems about massive amounts being spent to prop up privatised industries. This is what people turned against, a perception the state was being unaffordably generous. Which now has flipped to the state becoming unacceptably miserly (and did before in 1997). You would have to say that compared to now in terms of the gap between rich and poor, benefits then were much more generous. Though it was a materially poorer time, for example way less central heating, no electrical gadgets, fewer cars, simpler food. But on the plus side, cheaper public transport, you got paid to go to university but selective entrance, housing massively cheaper and in comparison plentifully available. On the whole, pay was less but so were prices in proportion and there was much more of this benefit in kind, so education, schools, utilities run well for the benefit of the nation, free lawyers if you needed to go to court, kids were freer to roam the streets and expected to become adults younger but adults would be more pro active in disciplining them. The whole thrust of governments since then has been to strip away benefits in general people got from the state and force them to rely on profit making companies instead. At that time the profits which now go to all those companies were a source of revenue for the state. For example, the cheap council house program was essentially self funding..until Thatcher gave away those accumulated assets. I remember wedgwood benn saying how the post office (including telephones) was massively profitable. The lever to allow her to asset strip was firstly the failing british industries costing a fortune to support plus stroppy unions, and then that the giveaways were couched to try to involve the general public. So shares were given in small batches to everyone, but pretty soon they almost all found their way into institutional hands anyway. The party of the rich transferred hugely profit making state assets to the private sector rich.
I have never seen a summation of the cost to society of all these recurring costs due to privatisations, but it must be a significant contributor to government deficits now that we no longer own these essential services.
Perhaps that is precisely the point. A new adult coming along at that time saw the background of discontent and had no memory of the war and the state change to well being for the ordinary citizen created post war by the welfare state. Saw the problems, many of which were in fact external such as the oil price shock and beyond any government's control, but got blamed on labour for trying.
Except that wasnt down to thatcher, the ers of opportunity began post war, while she also created loads of unrest and destroyed opportunities when she closed those state unprofitable ndustries. The boom of N sea oil was accompanied by the bust of coal, steel, and manufacturing.
Aspirational is a cliché in politics, but it's a powerful thing when properly defined. Chase dreams, hopefully realise them too. Especially when you're young. Nothing much wrong with it too. Politicians who mock aspiration usually flounder. Unfortunately it often comes down to who is the best liar. And thus we get a spiral of collapse of confidence in political parties.
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Jan 26, 2024 12:27:21 GMT
Or was there a different objection to photo ID ? Another objection was that while pensioners could present their bus pass, other adults could not. So, again a straightforward thing to obtain then not deemed acceptable for youth.
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Jan 26, 2024 12:36:38 GMT
Good news www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/jan/26/michelle-mone-assets-frozen-nca-investigates-fraudThe disgraced Conservative peer Michelle Mone and her husband have reportedly had about £75m of assets frozen or restrained by a court order. The pair face an investigation by the National Crime Agency into alleged medical equipment fraud. The Financial Times reported that the frozen assets included a six-bedroom central London townhouse, a country estate on the Isle of Man, and 15 accounts with Coutts, C Hoare & Co and Goldman Sachs International.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2024 12:41:35 GMT
But my point was why don't we find out how that "variation" and "awareness" can be dealt with. They seem strangely solvable issues to me. How are they.addressed on the Continent. Is this really a cultural objection? If you look on page 2 of the report linked to above you will find the Electoral Commission made 5 recommendations to government to improve the position: Review the list of accepted ID Improve access to the Voter Authority Certificate for voters Provide options for voters who do not have or cannot access any form of accepted ID Polling station staff should continue to collect data on the impact of voter ID at future elections The electoral community should work to improve the collection of data at polling stations for future elections See report for details. Thanks. So if the answer to voter ID problems is a National ID scheme how will that solve the " cannot access" group who seem to be at the heart of the EC issues.?
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Post by neilj on Jan 26, 2024 12:49:39 GMT
It seems the Sunak loyalists(could be all three of them 😀 ) plan to increase the numbers required to initiate a no confidence vote has failed
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2024 12:52:10 GMT
Ah-I see you mentioned the unmentionable -with predictable response. Fear not-there's always another opinion in a democracy Like this one eg thecritic.co.uk/the-case-for-voter-id/I get the impression sometimes that this argument revolves around the proposition that there is a group of people in this country who would be so seriously rendered underprivileged & disenfranchised by an ID system of the sort practiced routinely in many other countries , that it can never be contemplated here. Isn't that the issue which should really be examined ? I think you're missing the point. Many of the people who fear the voter disenfranchisement effects of mandatory ID requirements at polling stations,do so on the basis not of principled opposition to personal ID as such but because to introduce the requirement now, in our less than universally applied ID availability world, excludes a large number of people and prevents them voting. I favour personal ID cards for a variety of reasons, not least proof of voting eligibility. I think it's a fairly non-intrusive part of citizenship, to be honest, and has a multitude of benefits and uses. I think a lot of libertarians on the right oppose it and they fought hard against Blair when he briefly proposed the introduction of personal ID cards. One doesn't have to be a right wing libertarian to see as problematic the introduction of ID Cards as implimented by Blair. The card was the key to a massive database that would in time contol access to all interactions with the state, be that claimimg benefits, making a GP appointment, and yes eligibility to vote.
Who knows .. maybe we could give to contract to Fujitsu... what could possibly go wrong ?
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Post by peterbell on Jan 26, 2024 12:54:23 GMT
The Klopster on his bike at the end of the season, I see. For robbiealive's benefit, and other resident kickball sceptics, this can be translated as follows. Layman's language. Jurgen Klopp, the current Manager of Liverpool FC, will be stepping down from the role at the end of the football season. I shall miss him. Strangely. crossbat11I gave you a like for this as I have always liked Jurgen even though as a Geordie, Liverpool is not my favoured team. However, after further thought I am aware that I am rapidly losing my respect for him this season. More and more he has been arguing with referees and other officials. He is looking more like Arteta as each game goes by. I wonder if he is realising this himself and has thus decided to resign.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2024 12:58:58 GMT
The Klopster on his bike at the end of the season, I see. For robbiealive's benefit, and other resident kickball sceptics, this can be translated as follows. Layman's language. Jurgen Klopp, the current Manager of Liverpool FC, will be stepping down from the role at the end of the football season. I shall miss him. Strangely. Similar reaction to yours, Batmeister: ”It’s one of those moments isn’t it?” says Paul Griffin. “The very air seems piquant and electric with the new information. Neurons grappling to process new pathways. Everyone will remember exactly what they were doing when Mohamed Diomandé arrived from Nordsjælland on loan at Rangers.”
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