Danny
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Post by Danny on Jan 11, 2024 13:44:59 GMT
He also said that he just signed whatever the lawyers told him to sign. He seems to be a not very bright stooge who just did what he was told but enjoyed bullying sub-postmasters and postmistresses. he would have to have been soooo stupid he didnt know what a court was to have not realised what was happening wasnt right. This is just pretending ignorance. News this morning suggested many PO enforcers were ex police. You have to wonder WHY they were ex police, and how much they had learnt as police on how best to fit up innocent people and make them confess to things they had not done. Its a core police skill, especially for the pre-pace generation of police.
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Post by leftieliberal on Jan 11, 2024 13:50:58 GMT
hireton The Scottish legal system is separate and control is devolved to the Scottish parliament. steve Indeed but postal services aren't. There seems to be little detail about the proposed UK Government legislation. Some references are to "exonerating" the sub postmasters, others to "quashing" their convictions which may not be the same thing. So it's not clear whether this is legislation about legal and court processes or about sub postmasters in general a named set of sub postmasters in particular or all of them I wonder if it may also be hybrid. So I expect the proposed UK legislation could well straddle reserved and devolved areas. It looks like the Scottish Government has reached the same conclusion as the FM has written to the UK Government proposing that the bestcway forward is for the Scottish Parliament to give legislative consent to the UK legislation ( assuming it finds it acceptable). This also suggests that the UK Government hadn't consulted the Scottish Government or considered the devolution aspects. And there is no functioning Northern Ireland executive or assembly so presumably Westminster will simply have to legislate for the NI jurisdiction setting aside the need for a legislative consent motion in doing so. scottish-liberal.blogspot.com/2024/01/the-post-office-scandal-scottish.htmlIn Scotland approximately 100 prosecutions were brought by the procurators fiscal. Significantly, the procurator fiscal service is a Ministerial Department of the Scottish Government. It is also significant that all prosecutions in Scotland were public, and came under the oversight of Scotland’s justice ministers.
I agree that the best way forward is for one piece of legislation covering the whole of the UK to quash all convictions based on the use of evidence from Horizon. If it were not for the number of cases involved, it would be proper to go through the Appeal Court, but sometimes we have to use an Act of Parliament despite it breaking the wall between the Executive and the Judiciary. The other option of a Royal Pardon would not remove the criminal offence, which I think is essential.
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Jan 11, 2024 14:09:12 GMT
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Post by leftieliberal on Jan 11, 2024 14:11:54 GMT
pjw1961 Love the story about Garth Crooks in the loft. Still chuckling about it now. Those who aren't the biggest admirers of his football punditry, and I believe they are many in number, might appreciate his long term return to his attic!! In those less-enlightened days, I can remember commentators talking about Crooks "doing the spadework" in his partnership with Archibald. Yes, he wasn't much good at football punditry, but then the BBC would take anyone who had had a half-decent career as a player. That he was chairman of the PFA says something about his standing amongst his fellow professionals.
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Post by crossbat11 on Jan 11, 2024 14:12:09 GMT
Some fine names to enjoy as well - given the locals in Wellingborough will not longer be able to pick a Bone, their selection to choose from will include the rather utilitarian sounding Gen Kitchen for Labour (sponsorship opportunity for Ikea?) and, the presumably highly dangerous, Ana Savage Gunn for the Lib Dems. Meanwhile in Kingswood Mr Skidmore gently slides out of Westminster. I always thought Mark Reckless was a great name for a politician. He rather lived up to his name too when he quite the Tories to join UKIP in 2014, although he did hold his seat in the subsequent by election that year. However he then lost the seat shorty afterwards in the 2015 General Election. Maybe he then changed his name to Mark Regretful!
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Post by leftieliberal on Jan 11, 2024 14:14:39 GMT
The Fraud Investigator being grilled, on whose signed statements confirming the integrity of Horizon a number of prosecutions were based, is saying that he doesn't have any technical knowledge of software and that if there had been any problems his superiors would have told him... He also said that he just signed whatever the lawyers told him to sign. He seems to be a not very bright stooge who just did what he was told but enjoyed bullying sub-postmasters and postmistresses. "I was only following orders" didn't work out at Nuremberg.
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Jan 11, 2024 14:18:05 GMT
MRP Prediction for Kingswood
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Post by graham on Jan 11, 2024 14:19:56 GMT
MRP Prediction for Kingswood I expect a more comfortable Labour win than that.
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pjw1961
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Post by pjw1961 on Jan 11, 2024 14:20:07 GMT
Some fine names to enjoy as well - given the locals in Wellingborough will not longer be able to pick a Bone, their selection to choose from will include the rather utilitarian sounding Gen Kitchen for Labour (sponsorship opportunity for Ikea?) and, the presumably highly dangerous, Ana Savage Gunn for the Lib Dems. Meanwhile in Kingswood Mr Skidmore gently slides out of Westminster. I always thought Mark Reckless was a great name for a politician. He rather lived up to his name too when he quite the Tories to join UKIP in 2014, although he did hold his seat in the subsequent by election that year. However he then lost the seat shorty afterwards in the 2015 General Election. Maybe he then changed his name to Mark Regretful! Inspiring this Private Eye cover: www.private-eye.co.uk/covers/cover-1377
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Post by graham on Jan 11, 2024 14:21:43 GMT
16 weeks or so from a possible election, the Tories must be thinking that May could be the best opportunity now? With the need to fight the Lib Dems in the Shires diluted by the Post Office scandal they can concentrate on attacking Labour. Leave it to October and the Post Office scandal will be chip paper and they'll fighting on two fronts again. I think they will still lose pretty badly - but the defeat will be less. The Tory press will keep the Post Office injustice at the top of the agenda. The next few opinion polls will be fascinating. It the Tories took that view, it would make little sense to hold two by elections on 15th February.
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pjw1961
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Post by pjw1961 on Jan 11, 2024 14:21:55 GMT
He also said that he just signed whatever the lawyers told him to sign. He seems to be a not very bright stooge who just did what he was told but enjoyed bullying sub-postmasters and postmistresses. "I was only following orders" didn't work out at Nuremberg. Help! Graham's got control of leftie's account
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Post by crossbat11 on Jan 11, 2024 14:27:49 GMT
pjw1961 Love the story about Garth Crooks in the loft. Still chuckling about it now. Those who aren't the biggest admirers of his football punditry, and I believe they are many in number, might appreciate his long term return to his attic!! In those less-enlightened days, I can remember commentators talking about Crooks "doing the spadework" in his partnership with Archibald. Yes, he wasn't much good at football punditry, but then the BBC would take anyone who had had a half-decent career as a player. That he was chairman of the PFA says something about his standing amongst his fellow professionals. Didn't old Garth, who I agree was a fine footballer with both Stoke and Spurs, as well as being a well respected Chairman of the PFA, once famously, as a pundit, talk at length about a preferred 4-4-3 formation before he had to be reminded that he'd got too many outfield players in his line up? This may be an apocryphal tale, but I want it to be true! Mind you, Robbie Savage's preview of a Premier League season a few years ago was a classic one, even by Robbie's standards as a pundit. He went through each team's prospects in some detail and, by the end, had condemned eight teams to certain relegation. One of which was the Villa by the way!!
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steve
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Post by steve on Jan 11, 2024 14:28:12 GMT
jib Ed Davey has continuing caring duties for his seriously disabled son and his wife has recently been diagnosed with fast onset M.S. I suspect judging by the totally disproportionate partisan opprobrium being heaped on him by the Tories and their enablers,for example, GB news " journalist " Nigel Farage managed to breach all impartiality rules with his disingenuous coverage of Davey's limited involvement yesterday , sufficient to trigger a request for an Ofcom investigation. I am sure the totally disproportionate targeting of Davey has made his personal circumstances even more demanding. He likes to keep his family out of the public gaze in a similar way to Keir Starmer But I have no doubt various gutter dwelling journalists are endeavouring to intrude on his family. But just like you I don't know why he's not been seen much since yesterday.
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Jan 11, 2024 14:32:16 GMT
MRP Prediction for Kingswood I expect a more comfortable Labour win than that. Perhaps, although worth noting Reform are not standing
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steve
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Post by steve on Jan 11, 2024 14:35:14 GMT
Thanks for everyone's input on language and babies.
Continuaremos como creemos que es correcto para nuestra nieta.😀
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oldnat
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Post by oldnat on Jan 11, 2024 15:10:40 GMT
One point occurs to me about the proposed legislation to acquit postmasters (laudable as it is to ensure that this is done quickly), it sets a precedent for the executive to overrule the Judiciary in specific cases. At the moment the only way to do that is with the prerogative power of "Pardon" which does not expunge the offence but reflects a view of it's criminality. If the Legislature (which in this country is not as separate from the Executive as it might be) can overrule by statute to acquit, then it is only our adherence to the European Convention on Human Rights which would stand in the way of the Legislature finding someone guilty of an offence by passing an Act of Parliament. The Westminster Parliament has not abrogated its right to declare someone to be "attained" (ie outwith the protection of the law) on the basis of no charge being laid, or evidence submitted. That no Act of Attainder has been passed since 1798, doesn't mean that Parliament couldn't reassert its right to do so. Indeed, Churchill proposed its use to summarily execute the Axis leaders at the end of WWII - only the demand by the USA and USSR that trials be conducted prevented it.
I share your concern about the precedent being set by whatever new legislation is passed, though I understand the need for the Establishment to bring a speedy end to the scandal, after having ignored it for so long.
The Scottish Parliament has no powers to overturn convictions, so a Sewel motion is the only practical way to declare the convicted sub-postmasters innocent. That the UK Parliament can overturn judicial decisions in Scotland is potentially dangerous.
My preference would be for the Scots judiciary to take rapid action themselves, by shortcutting normal procedures. It should be possible for the Scottish Criminal Cases Review Commission to simply review all these cases in a single sitting, on the basis of a referral from the Lord Advocate, and declare the evidence to be unsound. On the same day, the Court of Session could quash every conviction, leaving none to be dealt with by the UK Parliament. Our rather traditional judiciary, however, are unlikely to adopt such a course of action - even to avoid the proposed precedent being set.
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oldnat
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Post by oldnat on Jan 11, 2024 15:21:28 GMT
colin"These prosecutions were mounted not by CPS"
Indeed - since the CPS writ doesn't run in Scotland or Northern Ireland. However, since there are virtually no private prosecutions in Scotland, here the PO had to have the prosecutions made by Procurators Fiscal, so they were public prosecutions.
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pjw1961
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Post by pjw1961 on Jan 11, 2024 15:31:45 GMT
I expect a more comfortable Labour win than that. Perhaps, although worth noting Reform are not standing Also worth remembering that the MRP was forecasting a GE result based on current polling. A by-election may well see a much larger swing, if only on the basis of Tory voters staying at home who would turn out and vote in a GE.
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Post by eor on Jan 11, 2024 15:33:46 GMT
Meanwhile in the US - Chris Christie has quit the presidential race, with just under two weeks to go until New Hampshire primary.
In each of the recent polls there he was on 12%, and whilst his supporters won't necessarily switch en bloc to Haley it seems pretty unlikely any significant number will go to Trump, so until we get some new polls then New Hampshire moves to Too Close to Call.
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oldnat
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Post by oldnat on Jan 11, 2024 15:40:03 GMT
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Post by James E on Jan 11, 2024 15:52:36 GMT
"Reform are not standing" (in Kingswood).
This sets up an interesting race for all the other fringe parties on the right. No fewer than 8 such parties have contested one or more of the Parliamentary by-elections in the past 6 months :
Reclaim Party Heritage Party UKIP SDP BF CPA English Democrats Scottish Family Party
You could probably add the anti-Ulez candidates in Uxbridge to that, too.
Four of these stood in Uxbridge in RefUK's absence, so I'd expect similar here. Those of the above who do stand can probably expect to share 3-4% of the total vote.
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Post by hireton on Jan 11, 2024 16:21:19 GMT
leftieliberal" It is also significant that all prosecutions in Scotland were public, and came under the oversight of Scotland’s justice ministers." That's a particularly tendentious sentence from your source. Scottish Ministers do not have any role in deciding who should be prosecuted. I can just imagine how "liberals" would react if they did.
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Post by Mark on Jan 11, 2024 16:48:29 GMT
In my case 'not pay-walled' is the most relevant consideration re the Guardian. That and the fact that all the pop-up adverts and videos on the Independent cause my ancient PC to freeze. Local newspaper sites are the worst. Trying to load the Oxford Mail results in a veritable assault of popups and surveys but I guess that's pretty much their only way to make money these days, not many people are going to buy an on-line subscription to their local paper. I have said this before and wil say it again...an ad-blocker extension/add-on on your browser is your friend....especially for those who go on newspaper sites regularly. IMO, Firefox is the best for this. partly as Google are making blockers less powerful with Manifest v3 (https://www.malwarebytes.com/blog/news/2023/11/chrome-pushes-forward-with-plans-to-limit-ad-blockers-in-the-future), but, you can get a decent blocker/content filter for most major browsers.
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Jan 11, 2024 17:15:22 GMT
Am not surprised the tories are seen as more right wing than 2014 UKIP, but am surprised Labour is seen as more left wing under Starmer than Brown
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2024 17:55:52 GMT
Local newspaper sites are the worst. Trying to load the Oxford Mail results in a veritable assault of popups and surveys but I guess that's pretty much their only way to make money these days, not many people are going to buy an on-line subscription to their local paper. I have said this before and wil say it again...an ad-blocker extension/add-on on your browser is your friend....especially for those who go on newspaper sites regularly. IMO, Firefox is the best for this. partly as Google are making blockers less powerful with Manifest v3 (https://www.malwarebytes.com/blog/news/2023/11/chrome-pushes-forward-with-plans-to-limit-ad-blockers-in-the-future), but, you can get a decent blocker/content filter for most major browsers. You can bypass paywalls by dropping the URL into the archive page.
It seems to work for most major publications
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johntel
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Post by johntel on Jan 11, 2024 17:57:46 GMT
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Jan 11, 2024 18:22:51 GMT
Just after the US election. Nice relaxing Halloween and Bonfire night this year then.. Not.
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Post by robbiealive on Jan 11, 2024 19:02:02 GMT
I have said this before and wil say it again...an ad-blocker extension/add-on on your browser is your friend....especially for those who go on newspaper sites regularly. IMO, Firefox is the best for this. partly as Google are making blockers less powerful with Manifest v3 (https://www.malwarebytes.com/blog/news/2023/11/chrome-pushes-forward-with-plans-to-limit-ad-blockers-in-the-future), but, you can get a decent blocker/content filter for most major browsers. You can bypass paywalls by dropping the URL into the archive page.
It seems to work for most major publications
A BACK-HANDED COMPLIMENT Coo you are clever. I've tried it & it works. Ta. Of course, if I spend even more time on the internet than I do already I might curse you. I discovered recently this is called negging. A young friend of mine calls me the Big Neg. Is this a form of negging on his part I ask myself?
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Post by graham on Jan 11, 2024 19:10:36 GMT
Tony Lloyd MP for Rochdale announces he is leaving hospital with untreatable leukaemia. Sad news.
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Post by peterbell on Jan 11, 2024 19:26:49 GMT
Sky News advising that Sunak has called an urgent telephone meeting of the cabinet. Suggestions that this may also include US. Such cabinet meetings only called in the event of a crisis and the belief is that it will be discussing reaction to Houthi/Iran attacks on shipping.
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