neilj
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Post by neilj on Dec 7, 2023 9:11:30 GMT
People are sometimes critical of the BBC as being too soft on the tories (sometimes with justification), but Nick Robinson was on the ball this morning
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Post by graham on Dec 7, 2023 9:13:02 GMT
Johnson was PM from 24th July 2019 until 6th September 2022. That is some way short of three and a half years - particularly as his departure was announcd in early July.
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Post by richardstamper on Dec 7, 2023 9:16:00 GMT
I don't think I am missing your point, but you are definitely missing several of mine. I don't wish to destroy private education because it gets better exam results than the state system (although that's a doddle once you've excluded all the children with the most challenges) Only you do not say why you object. Many kids in private schools are there because they are misfits in mainstream schooling, some as i mentioned paid for by local authorities because they have been thrown out of the state schools. And rich people have the same range of calm or rebellious, clever or stupid, kids as anyone else. Private classes I have seen are a lot more 'comprehensive' than state ones. Then you need to explain what you see as the problem. You havn't. Still not saying what the problem is? What harm to the nation? You just haven't included where I did state what the problem is; I'll repeat it. The private school system spews out socially ignorant, opinionated, arrogant, self-important sociopaths like the crew that have been running the country the last 13 years. Assisted by those who suck up to and seek to emulate the aforementioned socially ignorant, opinionated, arrogant, self-important sociopaths. Private schooling is profoundly harmful to the overall wellbeing of the nation and is a key underlying cause of our decline relative to other nations; it turns out people who are spectacularly bad at managing organisations, privileges them in acquiring jobs managing organisations and the country, and as a side-benefit ensures that the talents and abilities of the other 93% of the population are underused. I'll offer David Cameron, Boris Johnson and Rishi Sunak as exemplars of private school alumni who all had a grossly inflated sense of their ability to be effective leaders of this country. Cameron even once responded to the question of why he wanted to be PM with words to the effect of "Because I'd be good at it"; it's just the sort of thing that brilliant chaps like me should do! Do you really think that 65% of the people best suited to be judges are drawn from the 7% who were privately educated? Do you really think that 35% of the people with the potential to be Olympic medallists are drawn from the 7% who were privately educated? Having a system that makes it even easier for the polished but mediocre children of the (mostly) wealthy to get the "top jobs" means that as a nation we are missing out on the benefits of the talents of the rest. I refer you to Green et al. More than 45% of the privately educated come from the top 10% of the income distribution; roughly 70% from the top 30%; about 20% from the bottom 50%. Private schooling is mostly about the wealthy. You misunderstand my point about Empire. Having a well-educated elite and a relatively poorly educated mass was adequate when most of the population was going to be factory fodder. That became increasingly less suitable through the 20th century and into the 21st and I think that our continued relative decline can in part be attributed to the fact that our education system has reflected this approach to education in its structure, both with private schools and grammar schools. The quality of education of the children of "the masses" will never be a priority when the children of the elite running the country are not directly affected by it. I think you've been reading too much of the Daily Mail or Daily Telegraph. The state system is really not as bad as you paint it, and parents do have a choice. Fundamentally, they could have faith in the ability of their children to do well at the local school with their support, and also put in some effort to make their local school better. Join the PTA, become a governor, get involved in other activities in the neighbourhood to make it a better place. Also, as noted above, given 70% of the privately educated come from the top 30% of the income distribution, and the struggling state schools are overwhelming concentrated in poor areas, the vast majority of the privately educated will have good state schools on their doorsteps. Wow. Both offensive and an exemplar of the 19th attitudes that continue to hamstring this country. Are you sure you're not just rattled that one of the markers of your superiority is not quite as special as it used to be?
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Post by alec on Dec 7, 2023 9:26:44 GMT
barbara - long ago Dr A and myself opted to drop out and spend Christmas quietly with ourselves and the pets. We do still have a huge turkey though, which does look quite ridiculous when we finally sit down to dinner. We both have various branches of families, and do get quite amused by the numerous 'come to ours for Christmas dinner, you can't be on your own' invitations. We find it wonderful, closing down, going quiet and just relaxing. Each to their own, as you say.
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Post by barbara on Dec 7, 2023 9:30:49 GMT
People are sometimes critical of the BBC as being too soft on the tories (sometimes with justification), but Nick Robinson was on the ball this morning Wow. As Laura Kuenssberg would say, "That's quite a charge."
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Post by alec on Dec 7, 2023 9:48:52 GMT
Johnson's appearance at the covid inquiry yesterday was widely criticised, and today will likely be the same. Much of the critique revolved around understanding the science and the timings of action, with delays proving hugely costly in terms of lives saved.
Interestingly, Johnson is being criticised from both sides, with the strong attempt on the right to rewrite history and paint the protective measures taken as pointless and damaging. This is wrong (at least, they were damaging, but less so than the daft herd immunity by infection claims, and much less damaging than doing nothing). The impacts on children and education feature strongly in this critique, and the publication of the international PISA scored yesterday offer another data point that helps us understand the impacts of lockdowns and other protections on education.
Analysis of these scores shows a general decline everywhere. This is consistent with disrupted education through a global pandemic that is leading to lost schooltime, teacher absences etc. What the data does not show is any correlation between this decline and school closures. Or at least, it does show a very modest correlation, but in the other direction; those schools that shut least show a greater decline in academic performance, and vice versa. This isn't surprising to any of us that have been tracking the impact of covid on children. It's the disease that is doing the damage, and the more you allow children (and teachers) to become ill, the worse the educational outcomes will be. That's really so obvious it's painful having to keep making the point. The data also backs up previous findings in the US, where their key stage equivalent attainment scores also show a similar pattern. Overall, it's something of a jumble, buth the districts with fewer school closure end up with worse attainment scores. Clearly, covid has impacts on education, but primarily it's the level of sickness that matters.
Data here -
Another brief snippet of data on the current situation: Isle de France is a region being watched closely as this was oe of the first major European region where JN.1 reached 50% of sequences cases. Like clockwork, the moment it reached this point we saw case rates (measured via wastewater monitoring) shoot upwards. There is always some doubt in wastewater figures, as there are lots of variables (supper shedders, levels of gut virus with different variants etc) but hospitalisations are now rising very rapidly also, again mirroring the US experience. Interestingly, hopsitalisations are rising significantly faster than case numbers, which gives another data point suggesting JN.1 is more severe than Omicron.
Worth also keeping an eye on Austria. Their wastewater levels have hit levels never seen before in the entire pandemic.
Whether JN.1 will cause a wave that matches some of the huge peaks earlier in the pandemic still seems unlikely, but it's starting to look like this will be the biggest hit we've had for quite some time. The UK might just get away with Christmas before we're swamped with infections, but it's nip and tuck, with JN.1 at 30% in the last set of data.
Take care.
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steve
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Post by steve on Dec 7, 2023 9:50:06 GMT
They're watching you, they know where you live, when you sleep , they know the Wi-Fi code and how to access your search history! Have a merry Christmas
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Post by barbara on Dec 7, 2023 9:50:41 GMT
Carnage in the Cradle
I put my knitted Nativity up on Monday. I got up Tuesday morning to find this - before and after! I put it back together and Wednesday morning it was the same. So now - Attachment Deleted
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steve
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Post by steve on Dec 7, 2023 9:55:30 GMT
barbara If the daily mail did nativity
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Post by James E on Dec 7, 2023 10:07:42 GMT
Redfield Wilton blue wall. Labour leads by 1% in the Blue Wall. Blue Wall Westminster Voting Intention (4 Dec.): Labour 30% (-4) Conservative 29% (-1) Liberal Democrat 26% (+1) Reform UK 11% (+5) Green 3% (-1) Other 1% (–) Changes +/- 5 Nov. Compared to GE2019 this is: Lab 30% (+9) Con 29% (-21) LD 26% (-1) Ref 11% (new) So this is a 15% swing, which is right in line with R&W's recent GB polls which average around an 18% Lab lead. However, it is noticably lower than their 'Blue Wall' polls earlier in the year, which at one point were running at around an 8-10 point Labour lead. This an even larger movement than R&W's full GB polls which are showing Labour lead down by 5-6 points compared to early 2023. The overall polling average is a 1-2 point narrowing: I suspect that R&W may have made methodological changes last summer. And looking at other pollsters' South of England cross-break figures, there does not seem to be the same movement. YouGov's past 6 polls show a 22% swing in the South while Opinium show an 18% swing in 5 polls since early October (compared to 13% for GB as a whole). YouGov's figures actually show the South as moving enen further Labour's way since the early months of 2023, and with Opinium there is no real change. Some allowance needs to be made for the fact that R&W's Blue Wall includes 10 of the 42 seats surveyed in Greater London, and that their criteria include a relatively high Remain vote. Both London and 2016Remainers are demographics where it appears that the Tories are losing a lower proportion of their 2019 voters. But even after allowing for these factors, their findings are out of line with other pollsters. I would trust YouGov and Opinium, on the basis that they have a track record from previous elections against which to hone their methods, whereas R&W were not around at GE2019.
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steve
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Post by steve on Dec 7, 2023 10:17:22 GMT
"Compared to GE2019 this is: Lab 30% (+9) Con 29% (-21) LD 26% (-1) Ref 11% (new)
So this is a 15% swing, which is right in line with R&W's recent GB polls which average around an 18% Lab lead.
However, it is noticably lower than their 'Blue Wall' polls earlier in the year, which at one point were running at around an 8-10 point Labour lead. This an even larger movement than R&W's full GB polls which are showing Labour lead down by 5-6 points compared to early 2023."
Its good news for my party though a virtual three way tie brings over two dozen Tory seats into range.
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Dec 7, 2023 10:17:58 GMT
Remember all the fanfare about the tories announcing teaching maths to 18 years old More steady heads said it wasn't practical, as it turns out we will be lucky to teach maths upto the age of 16
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Dec 7, 2023 10:42:09 GMT
You do come out with some strange conspiracy theories when it concerns the Tor...well actually nearly everything. What I do is try to look at the facts from a different direction. Its a fact the tories have grabbed the headlines. If you believe 'there is no such thing as bad publicity', then they are winning. They are winning in keeping the public attention on a problem of refugees which in many ways they have entirely created as an issue. And just what has Jenrick said, or Braverman? That the policy isnt tough enough, and that is pretty mainstream for the conservative party now. The division is in the direction of what many would regard as core policy now. How is this bad for con? It reassures hard right voters there are tory MPs on their side. Meanwhile, sunak is being more cautious, offering an olive branch to those who are not so convinced such extreme measures are necessary. It doesnt matter whether there is any conspiracy. It seems fashionable to attack anything someone doesnt like by describing it as a conspiracy theory. Where is the conspiracy? If anyone is strategising for con, they dont need to conspire with anyone, this all simply happened. All they need do is sit back and watch the fireworks. I simply point out it has potential to boost con votes and is not necessarily making their situation worse. Admittedly, that is the view from the bottom of a big bit where they need to be dramatic and risk becomes more attractive. Whereas Starmer sitting on a big lead is ever more cautious not to upset anyone.
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Post by steamdrivenandy on Dec 7, 2023 10:43:32 GMT
barbara - long ago Dr A and myself opted to drop out and spend Christmas quietly with ourselves and the pets. We do still have a huge turkey though, which does look quite ridiculous when we finally sit down to dinner. We both have various branches of families, and do get quite amused by the numerous 'come to ours for Christmas dinner, you can't be on your own' invitations. We find it wonderful, closing down, going quiet and just relaxing. Each to their own, as you say. We tend to have a quiet Christmas too. Our daughter and grandson spend Christmas Day with his father and our son passed away 18 months ago without having offspring. One of my sisters is in Vancouver and the other in deepest Devon and I've not seen her for a dozen years. Mrs SDA's brother is in Milton Keynes with two other families to contend with. We'll probably have Mrs SDA's best friend with us for part of Christmas Day as she's otherwise on her own. We're not even having turkey as I'm rostered to cook roast chicken with lemon garlic & herbs, spiced roast cabbage with caper & raisin dressing, courgette apple red cabbage and tarragon slaw plus roast potatoes. Attachment Deleted
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Post by alec on Dec 7, 2023 10:44:20 GMT
Oh! Latest covid updates, and the news is significantly worse than anticipated. Hospitalisations have definitely turned the corner, with a 10% rise on the week, after several weeks of substantial declines. The turnaround is pretty large, and more worryingly, at the end of the period it covers, JN.1 had only reach c 34% of cases - well short on the 50% level where it should really start to exert an influence. On top of that, the newly reinstated ONS infection prevalence survey shows the latest figure is 1.2% infected. The better news is that this is still lower than at any point since July 2021 (just) but the previous week, which was released at the same time, was 1%, so cases appear to be growing at 20% a week.
To be honest, it's just started to look substantially more challenging for Christmas.
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Post by alec on Dec 7, 2023 10:54:26 GMT
New data here to feed into the debate on the mortality crisis and the impact of underinvestment since 2010 - ilcuk.org.uk/2021-census-indicates-little-improvement-in-mortality-in-the-last-decade/The ONS has revised population estimates based on the updated 2021 census data. The net effect is that there are 300,000 fewer people in the population than expected, with the divergence greater in older age groups. As mortality rates are calculated using the population size, this has had a significant impact once the figures are revised. Previously, from 2000 - 2010 mortality rates had declines by 2% a year. It was previously calculated that 2010 - 2020 saw this decline reduce to 0.5%, which is bad enough, but this latest revision removes 2/3rds of this. Basically we've seen not substantial improvement in mortality since 2010, reversing decades of improvements. This is clearly an indication of the impact of austerity and the failure of the Conservatives to improve society, and comes before any impact of the covid pandemic. It would be true to say that, in terms of improvements in mortality rates, we've just lives through the worst decade in a century and a half, and there really is no one else to blame other than a string of abysmal prime ministers.
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Post by leftieliberal on Dec 7, 2023 11:00:53 GMT
Johnson's appearance at the covid inquiry yesterday was widely criticised, and today will likely be the same. Much of the critique revolved around understanding the science and the timings of action, with delays proving hugely costly in terms of lives saved. Interestingly, Johnson is being criticised from both sides, with the strong attempt on the right to rewrite history and paint the protective measures taken as pointless and damaging. This is wrong (at least, they were damaging, but less so than the daft herd immunity by infection claims, and much less damaging than doing nothing). The impacts on children and education feature strongly in this critique, and the publication of the international PISA scored yesterday offer another data point that helps us understand the impacts of lockdowns and other protections on education. Analysis of these scores shows a general decline everywhere. This is consistent with disrupted education through a global pandemic that is leading to lost schooltime, teacher absences etc. What the data does not show is any correlation between this decline and school closures. Or at least, it does show a very modest correlation, but in the other direction; those schools that shut least show a greater decline in academic performance, and vice versa. This isn't surprising to any of us that have been tracking the impact of covid on children. It's the disease that is doing the damage, and the more you allow children (and teachers) to become ill, the worse the educational outcomes will be. That's really so obvious it's painful having to keep making the point. The data also backs up previous findings in the US, where their key stage equivalent attainment scores also show a similar pattern. Overall, it's something of a jumble, buth the districts with fewer school closure end up with worse attainment scores. Clearly, covid has impacts on education, but primarily it's the level of sickness that matters. Data here - Another brief snippet of data on the current situation: Isle de France is a region being watched closely as this was oe of the first major European region where JN.1 reached 50% of sequences cases. Like clockwork, the moment it reached this point we saw case rates (measured via wastewater monitoring) shoot upwards. There is always some doubt in wastewater figures, as there are lots of variables (supper shedders, levels of gut virus with different variants etc) but hospitalisations are now rising very rapidly also, again mirroring the US experience. Interestingly, hopsitalisations are rising significantly faster than case numbers, which gives another data point suggesting JN.1 is more severe than Omicron. Worth also keeping an eye on Austria. Their wastewater levels have hit levels never seen before in the entire pandemic. Whether JN.1 will cause a wave that matches some of the huge peaks earlier in the pandemic still seems unlikely, but it's starting to look like this will be the biggest hit we've had for quite some time. The UK might just get away with Christmas before we're swamped with infections, but it's nip and tuck, with JN.1 at 30% in the last set of data. Take care. That graph is a load of rubbish. You only have to look at the correlation coefficient (0.072) to know that there is essentially no correlation. There are obviously confounding factors that have not been taken into account. Sometimes alec you are as bad as Danny in using data for support rather than illumination.
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Dec 7, 2023 11:02:07 GMT
People are sometimes critical of the BBC as being too soft on the tories (sometimes with justification), but Nick Robinson was on the ball this morning What was her response to that? I think the BBC knows which way it's bread is going to be buttered this time next year and will slowly do a bit of pivoting. However I'll never forget or forgive how craven it was to this bunch of amoral chancers.
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Post by wb61 on Dec 7, 2023 11:04:19 GMT
As people are sharing their Christmas set-up I thought I would pay tribute to my wife, who is the process of decorating ( I am working in London this week) and who is keeping me up to date with photographs of her efforts. I am a very lucky man and don't deserve her!
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Post by alec on Dec 7, 2023 11:07:56 GMT
leftieliberal - yes, there is essentially no correlation, which is what we find in any analysis of educational impacts and school closures. That's largely the point. My view on this is that it's much less about school closures/home education and much more about how good the education authorities were at managing the shift. Clearly, it's so much better for children and staff not to get sick, but if you achieve that by closing schools but you don't have effective home teaching systems set up, you're going to see adverse outcomes. I think this is the real lesson of this aspect of the pandemic. Incidentally, latest absence data in English schools continues to show high levels of sickness related absence. The problems aren't going away.
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Dec 7, 2023 11:09:43 GMT
Only you do not say why you object. Many kids in private schools are there because they are misfits in mainstream schooling, some as i mentioned paid for by local authorities because they have been thrown out of the state schools. And rich people have the same range of calm or rebellious, clever or stupid, kids as anyone else. Private classes I have seen are a lot more 'comprehensive' than state ones. Then you need to explain what you see as the problem. You havn't. Still not saying what the problem is? What harm to the nation? You just haven't included where I did state what the problem is; I'll repeat it. The private school system spews out socially ignorant, opinionated, arrogant, self-important sociopaths like the crew that have been running the country the last 13 years. Assisted by those who suck up to and seek to emulate the aforementioned socially ignorant, opinionated, arrogant, self-important sociopaths. Private schooling is profoundly harmful to the overall wellbeing of the nation and is a key underlying cause of our decline relative to other nations; it turns out people who are spectacularly bad at managing organisations, privileges them in acquiring jobs managing organisations and the country, and as a side-benefit ensures that the talents and abilities of the other 93% of the population are underused. I'll offer David Cameron, Boris Johnson and Rishi Sunak as exemplars of private school alumni who all had a grossly inflated sense of their ability to be effective leaders of this country. Cameron even once responded to the question of why he wanted to be PM with words to the effect of "Because I'd be good at it"; it's just the sort of thing that brilliant chaps like me should do! Do you really think that 65% of the people best suited to be judges are drawn from the 7% who were privately educated? Do you really think that 35% of the people with the potential to be Olympic medallists are drawn from the 7% who were privately educated? Having a system that makes it even easier for the polished but mediocre children of the (mostly) wealthy to get the "top jobs" means that as a nation we are missing out on the benefits of the talents of the rest. I refer you to Green et al. More than 45% of the privately educated come from the top 10% of the income distribution; roughly 70% from the top 30%; about 20% from the bottom 50%. Private schooling is mostly about the wealthy. You misunderstand my point about Empire. Having a well-educated elite and a relatively poorly educated mass was adequate when most of the population was going to be factory fodder. That became increasingly less suitable through the 20th century and into the 21st and I think that our continued relative decline can in part be attributed to the fact that our education system has reflected this approach to education in its structure, both with private schools and grammar schools. The quality of education of the children of "the masses" will never be a priority when the children of the elite running the country are not directly affected by it. I think you've been reading too much of the Daily Mail or Daily Telegraph. The state system is really not as bad as you paint it, and parents do have a choice. Fundamentally, they could have faith in the ability of their children to do well at the local school with their support, and also put in some effort to make their local school better. Join the PTA, become a governor, get involved in other activities in the neighbourhood to make it a better place. Also, as noted above, given 70% of the privately educated come from the top 30% of the income distribution, and the struggling state schools are overwhelming concentrated in poor areas, the vast majority of the privately educated will have good state schools on their doorsteps. Wow. Both offensive and an exemplar of the 19th attitudes that continue to hamstring this country. Are you sure you're not just rattled that one of the markers of your superiority is not quite as special as it used to be? Well living in Hastings would be kind of like living in the 1950s, with the attitudes to boot i guess.You've got to fit in with the over 80s who make up the bulk of the population
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Post by alec on Dec 7, 2023 11:26:00 GMT
wb61 - "I am a very lucky man and don't deserve her!" Your wife looks remarkably like a Christmas tree. Not really my thing, but each to their own, I guess.
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Post by hireton on Dec 7, 2023 11:32:45 GMT
Remember all the fanfare about the tories announcing teaching maths to 18 years old More steady heads said it wasn't practical, as it turns out we will be lucky to teach maths upto the age of 16 They should just pass a law that there are enough teachers.
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Post by leftieliberal on Dec 7, 2023 11:34:22 GMT
leftieliberal - yes, there is essentially no correlation, which is what we find in any analysis of educational impacts and school closures. That's largely the point. My view on this is that it's much less about school closures/home education and much more about how good the education authorities were at managing the shift. Clearly, it's so much better for children and staff not to get sick, but if you achieve that by closing schools but you don't have effective home teaching systems set up, you're going to see adverse outcomes. I think this is the real lesson of this aspect of the pandemic. Incidentally, latest absence data in English schools continues to show high levels of sickness related absence. The problems aren't going away. Google Translate (a good use for AI) shows that the original posting was: A good comparison of the drop in pisa results vs. how many days the school was closed. And a reminder, at least in Finland distance school worked just fine, the schools were not closed. Finland was among the countries where school was closed for the shortest time, but the biggest collapse.
and the response (which you quoted from X) thank you @pirtahotulainen , this is where I got an interesting correlation test. The correlation is minimal and in the 'wrong' direction. The Pisa result deteriorated less in countries where there were more school closures/remote days, and vice versa. Really, the effect of the closing/distance days is lost in the background noise.
I think we agree that how the education establishment reacted to the need to close schools was important. As the country that innovated distance learning through the Open University we should have suffered less of a loss.
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Post by hireton on Dec 7, 2023 11:34:59 GMT
Sunak just gave his MPs license to rebel on the Second Reading of the Rwanda Bill by saying at his press conference that it will not be treated as a confidence issue.
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steve
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Post by steve on Dec 7, 2023 11:36:45 GMT
In profiles in courage news, Rishi Sunakered announced that his flag sinking ship pointless Rwanda legislation won't be a confidence issue, because he expects too many of his own head bangers to vote against it.
Incidentally prime minister's press conferences aren't an opportunity for Tory politicians to slag off the opposition, it's inappropriate as party politics are a matter for party political broadcast not hijacking the bully pulpit of prime minister. But needless to say Sunakered did precisely that.
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Post by leftieliberal on Dec 7, 2023 11:39:17 GMT
Sunak just gave his MPs license to rebel on the Second Reading of the Rwanda Bill by saying at his press conference that it will not be treated as a confidence issue. Whether he wants to go to the country in May or Autumn 2024, he certainly doesn't want to be forced to go in January, which would be the consequence of losing a vote of confidence.
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Post by leftieliberal on Dec 7, 2023 11:43:05 GMT
Most of our recent inflation was caused by corporate greed. Carsten Jung, head of economics at the IPPR, said the work of Isabella Weber, an economist at the University of Massachusetts, showed how “systemic sectors” can have an outsized impact on inflation across the wider economy. The report echoes research by the Unite union, which last year revealed how the biggest price increases affecting the UK consumer prices index (CPI) were driven by firms that either maintained or improved their profit margins. Among the companies that increased their profits most from the pre-pandemic average were: ExxonMobil: profits of £15bn increased to £53bn Shell: £16bn up to £44bn Glencore: £1.9 bn up to £14.8bn Archer-Daniels-Midland: £1.4bn up to £3.16bn Kraft Heinz: £265m up to £1.8bnHigher taxes on corporate profits are needed now.
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steve
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Post by steve on Dec 7, 2023 11:43:58 GMT
Peevish anger is not attractive and it doesn't make you look powerful. Somebody in the Tory party needs to explain that to Sunak, if there's anyone left in the party who remembers.
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Dec 7, 2023 11:49:40 GMT
I can't see many tories rebelling over the Rwanda Bill. Seems counter productive for those wanting it to go even further to try and stop what they have got Yes can see them trying to ammend, but they would be very unlikely to achieve that.
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