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Post by shevii on Oct 3, 2023 8:20:23 GMT
RAF I'm not here to defend the Labour party, their members can do that, but it did seem to me it was gratuitously insulting to Starmer it's also a misrepresentation of the reason given for Dianne Abbott's suspension. It's standard fare from a Corbyn mega fan. I didn't clock which particular tweet you are talking about in terms of how it misrepresented the reason for Abbott's suspension but just because someone might be a Corbyn fan doesn't invalidate what they are saying so you'd have to explain how it was misrepresented. I posted a thread a while back on similar statements (racist. antisemitic, sexist) and how they were treated by Labour in terms of disciplinary action and it is patently obvious that Abbott has been singled out for special harsh treatment. We are now over 5 months into an "inquiry" where there is no disputing the facts so nothing much to inquire about in order to come to a decision- she apologised for her statement even in advance of a suspension and the statement she made was far less offensive than other comments made by other Labour politicians that were directly racist as opposed to a comment that could be summarised as saying blacks suffer more than Jews from racism- probably factual but the crime being that all racism should be treated equally and sympathetically not as a hierarchy. The people who made actual racist statements got away with a "don't do it again" type slap on the wrists while Abbott is left in limbo. Of course it's all factional (not racist against Abbott) but quite honestly Labour centrists should hang their head in shame at their silence on the treatment of Abbott. Just because it is "Corbyn fans" who bring this up says more about the others who see natural justice as secondary to their political position. If you want to get rid of left wingers be honest about it and get rid of them for being left wing rather than treat a left winger differently in disciplinary matters. |
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Post by leftieliberal on Oct 3, 2023 8:22:16 GMT
This suggestion only makes sense if you see UKPR threads as arbitrary chunks of conversation of roughly equal length. If, on the other hand you see them as conversations about a change in political circumstance and/or polling, then the length of threads is irrelevant. So you would be happy if I start a new thread tomorrow and then someone else starts a new one the following day? All I'm trying to get is some ground rules to prevent silly squabbles. I suggest the following simple ground rules for polling threads: 1) No more than one new polling thread per calendar month; 2) The thread must be started with a UK/GB poll and its title include the date and at least the VI of the two major parties; 3) No new thread until the last thread is at least 200 pages long; 4) One exception to 1) and 3): when the Prime Minister declares a General Election there will be a single thread for the entire period from the first opinion poll with fieldwork partly or wholly after this date until after the declaration of the last constituency. The next new thread will begin with the first opinion poll after the General Election. Can we discuss this, and when we get agreement offer it to Mark as the settled preference of the board members. |
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Post by leftieliberal on Oct 3, 2023 8:26:40 GMT
Did you ever try to get a landline before BT was privatised? It took 6 months at least. You and others try to pretend that all the inefficiencies and poor service are the result of governments since 2010, and more specifically since Brexit. Not so. Actually, even after privatisation they still behaved the same way. I remember what happened when I moved into my current house in 1985 and even though the phone line was already physically connected and only needed to be powered at the exchange, they still quoted me a six-week delay. |
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pjw1961
Member
Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
Posts: 8,590
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Post by pjw1961 on Oct 3, 2023 8:34:11 GMT
Hi neilj , it will be interesting to see if the Tories see any bounce as a result of their conference. The image being portrayed in the media, appears to be one of internal division etc - which never goes down well with the electorate. I wouldnt expect a bounce at all. Party conferences are meetings of politics enthusiasts, love ins or hate ins for those involved. Club events in reality. Essentailly inward looking and reported on negatively by a relentlessly negative British media. I wonder how many of the great british public even know that there is a party conference going on!
A 2015 survey showed that 2/3 of british people couldnt even name the prime minister and there is a similar proportion who cannot name their MP. It seems to me that the electorate respond to the general mood, everything from comments in the supermarket and the pub to personal circumstances and finances. Since 3/4 of the pop ( standard .co.uk) see the UK as becoming a worse place to live, I cant see anything at the party conference making a difference woth bothering about.
Traditionally each party got a small poll bounce from its party conference simply on the basis of publicity and being on the news. There was no long term impact and the polls reverted to whatever they had been prior to the conference season. It will be interesting to see if the the PM's HS2 train crash (how to look indecisive and dishonest simultaneously) prevents this. |
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pjw1961
Member
Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
Posts: 8,590
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Post by pjw1961 on Oct 3, 2023 8:39:45 GMT
So you would be happy if I start a new thread tomorrow and then someone else starts a new one the following day? All I'm trying to get is some ground rules to prevent silly squabbles. I suggest the following simple ground rules for polling threads: 1) No more than one new polling thread per calendar month; 2) The thread must be started with a UK/GB poll and its title include the date and at least the VI of the two major parties; 3) No new thread until the last thread is at least 200 pages long; 4) One exception to 1) and 3): when the Prime Minister declares a General Election there will be a single thread for the entire period from the first opinion poll with fieldwork partly or wholly after this date until after the declaration of the last constituency. The next new thread will begin with the first opinion poll after the General Election. Can we discuss this, and when we get agreement offer it to Mark as the settled preference of the board members.
Mark has said he is thinking about it and asked we don't comment in the interim. |
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Mr Poppy
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Teaching assistant and now your elected PM
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Post by Mr Poppy on Oct 3, 2023 8:40:39 GMT
RAF I'm not here to defend the Labour party, their members can do that, but it did seem to me it was gratuitously insulting to Starmer it's also a misrepresentation of the reason given for Dianne Abbott's suspension. It's standard fare from a Corbyn mega fan. I didn't clock which particular tweet you are talking about in terms of how it misrepresented the reason for Abbott's suspension but just because someone might be a Corbyn fan doesn't invalidate what they are saying so you'd have to explain how it was misrepresented. I posted a thread a while back on similar statements (racist. antisemitic, sexist) and how they were treated by Labour in terms of disciplinary action and it is patently obvious that Abbott has been singled out for special harsh treatment. We are now over 5 months into an "inquiry" where there is no disputing the facts so nothing much to inquire about in order to come to a decision- she apologised for her statement even in advance of a suspension and the statement she made was far less offensive than other comments made by other Labour politicians that were directly racist as opposed to a comment that could be summarised as saying blacks suffer more than Jews from racism- probably factual but the crime being that all racism should be treated equally and sympathetically not as a hierarchy. The people who made actual racist statements got away with a "don't do it again" type slap on the wrists while Abbott is left in limbo. Of course it's all factional (not racist against Abbott) but quite honestly Labour centrists should hang their head in shame at their silence on the treatment of Abbott. Just because it is "Corbyn fans" who bring this up says more about the others who see natural justice as secondary to their political position. If you want to get rid of left wingers be honest about it and get rid of them for being left wing rather than treat a left winger differently in disciplinary matters. 'Factionalism' is my guess as well but the Corbyn 'hierarchy' of racism gave a free pass to Anti-Israeli comments (that strayed over into anti-semitism in the opinion of a lot of people) and seemed to encourage 'positive discrimination' (a form of racism/sexism that was recently found to be unlawful in the RAF*) Starmer is being attacked by LW-twitterverse/Corbynistas for his pro-Israel position and what at least appears to be an inversion of the 'hierarchy' under NewLABv2 management. Whilst I would agree Abbott was probably kicked out for being from the LW of LAB then she has been targeted as a 'black woman' in the past, not just disagreement with her political views. A lot (not all) of 'slap wrists' being handed to LAB MPs that have made much worse comments seem to be the wrists of 'old, white, men' and that certainly creates an image of an 'inverted hierarchy' compared to the Corbyn-era. Everyone is entitled to an opinion of course and if you missed it then I'll repost the opinion of someone on the LW-twitterverse. People who have an issue with that person can perhaps respond to that person. My comment was actually WRT to how Badenoch might press on that button into GE'24. Folks can read my comment (rather than 'silliness' that followed it) if the want to. ukpollingreport2.proboards.com/post/103516/thread* news.sky.com/story/royal-air-force-unlawfully-discriminated-against-white-male-recruits-in-bid-to-boost-diversity-inquiry-finds-12911888 |
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Post by kay9 on Oct 3, 2023 8:41:43 GMT
Did you ever try to get a landline before BT was privatised? It took 6 months at least. You and others try to pretend that all the inefficiencies and poor service are the result of governments since 2010, and more specifically since Brexit. Not so. Actually, even after privatisation they still behaved the same way. I remember what happened when I moved into my current house in 1985 and even though the phone line was already physically connected and only needed to be powered at the exchange, they still quoted me a six-week delay. In 1991, I moved house. The previous owners had paid their bill; it was agreed with BT that I would keep the same number; yet when I arrived, the phone was disconnected. They quoted me a sum (memory says that it was over £60) for reconnection. When I complained, it was done immediately, with no charge to me! |
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Post by leftieliberal on Oct 3, 2023 8:45:04 GMT
I suggest the following simple ground rules for polling threads: 1) No more than one new polling thread per calendar month; 2) The thread must be started with a UK/GB poll and its title include the date and at least the VI of the two major parties; 3) No new thread until the last thread is at least 200 pages long; 4) One exception to 1) and 3): when the Prime Minister declares a General Election there will be a single thread for the entire period from the first opinion poll with fieldwork partly or wholly after this date until after the declaration of the last constituency. The next new thread will begin with the first opinion poll after the General Election. Can we discuss this, and when we get agreement offer it to Mark as the settled preference of the board members.
Mark has said he is thinking about it and asked we don't comment in the interim. I didn't see that until after I had commented on your post. |
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Post by leftieliberal on Oct 3, 2023 8:53:09 GMT
Actually, even after privatisation they still behaved the same way. I remember what happened when I moved into my current house in 1985 and even though the phone line was already physically connected and only needed to be powered at the exchange, they still quoted me a six-week delay. In 1991, I moved house. The previous owners had paid their bill; it was agreed with BT that I would keep the same number; yet when I arrived, the phone was disconnected. They quoted me a sum (memory says that it was over £60) for reconnection. When I complained, it was done immediately, with no charge to me! Leopards don't change their spots. I cannot remember nearly 40 years after the event, whether they quoted me a sum to reconnect my phone, but they probably did. It's one time outside my professional life that having a doctorate came in handy and I wasn't going to tell them that I wasn't a medical doctor. If anything, it proves that privatisation of utilities was a mistake; it only changes their ownership, not their behaviour. |
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
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Post by pjw1961 on Oct 3, 2023 8:55:06 GMT
RAF I'm not here to defend the Labour party, their members can do that, but it did seem to me it was gratuitously insulting to Starmer it's also a misrepresentation of the reason given for Dianne Abbott's suspension. It's standard fare from a Corbyn mega fan. I didn't clock which particular tweet you are talking about in terms of how it misrepresented the reason for Abbott's suspension but just because someone might be a Corbyn fan doesn't invalidate what they are saying so you'd have to explain how it was misrepresented.Purely for information, the 'misrepresentation' was that the far left commentator said something along the lines of: "The Foord report showed Diane Abbott suffered a high degree of racism. How does Starmer react - he throws her out of the Party". He thus entirely ommited the reason for Abbott's suspension, i.e. her unfortunate letter to the newspaper. Edit: I see Trevor has reposted it. |
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Post by moby on Oct 3, 2023 9:01:51 GMT
Having seen a clip of Truss walking into her fringe event, I noted that her trousers were even shorter than Sunak's. Is this a fashion trend, or a competition to signal the level of cuts to tax and benefits that the wearer advocates?
Will we, ultimately, see Gove in Bermuda shorts and Patel in Levi's Rolled Shorts, as clothing signalling becomes even more extreme? No. Here's Priti and Nigel Farage massacring Frankie Valli last night. Remember to wash your eyes out after. youtu.be/hPKcmk5uOBo?si=xpkVJ08CZi60-S3c |
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Post by leftieliberal on Oct 3, 2023 9:08:07 GMT
Another sign of the disastrous mismanagement of HS2 www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/hs2-rishi-sunak-tory-conference-b2422922.htmlHS1 boss ‘denied’ HS2 job for ‘lacking qualifications and experience’ despite delivering on time and in budget Rob Holden says he applied to work on HS2 but was rejected The former HS1 chief executive said HS2 was always “ill conceived” because of the speed it was designed to run at an “inappropriate speed” for the UK, originally 400kmph, which has since been cut to 360kmph.But Mr Holden said most high speed lines in Europe run at 300kmph, with the costs of going much faster becoming “exponentially higher”.“The overall cost of the railway should never have been as much as it was, as I say because it was designed to operate at a speed which is not appropriate for this country.”Mr Holden also said HS1 was successful because the true budget was known to just “a handful of people”, while HS2 contractors inflating their prices once they see the project’s true budget.I've been saying this about the design speed being inappropriate for a long time, from my knowledge of high-speed railways in Europe. Even though the trains are now going to run slower the line has still been designed for the higher speed. EDIT: Also see this Guardian article on the timeline of HS2 www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/oct/02/hs2-timeline-rail-high-speed-rail-project |
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Post by shevii on Oct 3, 2023 9:47:50 GMT
Purely for information, the 'misrepresentation' was that the far left commentator said something along the lines of: "The Foord report showed Diane Abbott suffered a high degree of racism. How does Starmer react - he throws her out of the Party". He thus entirely ommited the reason for Abbott's suspension, i.e. her unfortunate letter to the newspaper. Edit: I see Trevor has reposted it. Ok- Fair enough in terms of the misrepresenting of her suspension but there's a degree of poetic licence in the comment given that Abbott HAS been treated more harshly than other MPs who have made worse offences- even though I would agree this is not to do with racism but to do with the politics. People on here were up in arms when Lucianna Berger claimed she was pushed out of the party by local activists, even though the allegations were much more cloudy and less substantiated, but deathly silence when there is a clear case for seeing Abbott that has been treated differently to other MPs facing disciplinary matters. |
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steve
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Post by steve on Oct 3, 2023 9:52:02 GMT
pjw1961Indeed nice to see a Labour activist prepared to call out inappropriate criticism of your party leader by those harbouring grudges. I still harbour some affection for my old party and while I don't see anything significant to encourage my return it has at least moved on from the doctrinal purity agenda which featured in my experience when Corbyn was leader and now consists of adults in the room. It's a bit ironic having been called a red Tory by local members because I came from the cooperative left wing tradition rather than socialist ,given that now my current parties position in regard to fair voting would undermine the Tory dominance in a way that accepting unfair representation because now and then it might unfairly benefit Labour makes that particular criticism more absurd than ever. I doubt I would experience the criticism under Labour's current leadership but the current iteration is just too far to the right for me.
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steve
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Post by steve on Oct 3, 2023 9:57:06 GMT
sheviiNot engaging in internal Labour arrangements but I think it's likely given the obsession of the right wing media to castigate Abbott for factual errors, real or imagined, that they don't even mention when they are made by Tory or UKIP loons did make her an electoral liability. It's not a fair assessment but I suspect having provided the ammunition herself the leadership were happy to fire the gun.
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steve
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Post by steve on Oct 3, 2023 10:05:44 GMT
UKIP Tory London mayoral candidate Susan Hall decided to engage in malicious racist comments about London Mayor Sadiq Khan saying London Jews were frightened of him.
Apparently London Jews didn't get the memo.
"The Board of Deputies of British Jews says this is a slur against Khan.
Throughout his tenure as Mayor,@sadiqkhan has treated our community with friendship & respect.
We hope to co-host the key Mayoral candidates at a 2024 Jewish hustings, where it will be clear that while London Jews may have varying political views, there is no fear present at all"
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steve
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Post by steve on Oct 3, 2023 10:08:01 GMT
Nigel Farage says Tory party becoming like Ukip, and GB News will help decide its next leader
Nigel Farage has said that parts of the Conservative party are now like Ukip.
Only parts?
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Post by moby on Oct 3, 2023 10:13:37 GMT
Nigel Farage says Tory party becoming like Ukip, and GB News will help decide its next leader Nigel Farage has said that parts of the Conservative party are now like Ukip. Only parts? The Brexiteer headbangers and Trussites wanted Singapore-on-Thames. But instead got Pyongyang-on-Humber. |
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pjw1961
Member
Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
Posts: 8,590
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Post by pjw1961 on Oct 3, 2023 11:00:11 GMT
Nigel Farage says Tory party becoming like Ukip, and GB News will help decide its next leader Nigel Farage has said that parts of the Conservative party are now like Ukip. Only parts? Perhaps they could complete the process by returning the same number of MPs in 2024 that UKIP did in 2015. |
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pjw1961
Member
Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
Posts: 8,590
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Post by pjw1961 on Oct 3, 2023 11:15:19 GMT
pjw1961 Indeed nice to see a Labour activist prepared to call out inappropriate criticism of your party leader by those harbouring grudges. I still harbour some affection for my old party and while I don't see anything significant to encourage my return it has at least moved on from the doctrinal purity agenda which featured in my experience when Corbyn was leader and now consists of adults in the room. It's a bit ironic having been called a red Tory by local members because I came from the cooperative left wing tradition rather than socialist ,given that now my current parties position in regard to fair voting would undermine the Tory dominance in a way that accepting unfair representation because now and then it might unfairly benefit Labour makes that particular criticism more absurd than ever. I doubt I would experience the criticism under Labour's current leadership but the current iteration is just too far to the right for me. I don't normally comment on Trevor's "sources" as it accords them an importance they don't merit. Personally I feel that Diane Abbott's misdemeanor, for which her apology seems genuine, doesn't look severe enough to merit expulsion - and it should be remembered, she hasn't been. More than that I cannot say; the process is what it is and will do what it does. Since, if I recall correctly, shevii has said he is a member of the Greens there is something ironic about members of the Greens and Liberal Democrats debating the disciplinary processes of the Labour Party  . The Greens of course, have their own problems at present: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66585309 |
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pjw1961
Member
Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
Posts: 8,590
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Post by pjw1961 on Oct 3, 2023 11:19:12 GMT
UKIP Tory London mayoral candidate Susan Hall decided to engage in malicious racist comments about London Mayor Sadiq Khan saying London Jews were frightened of him. Apparently London Jews didn't get the memo. "The Board of Deputies of British Jews says this is a slur against Khan. Throughout his tenure as Mayor,@sadiqkhan has treated our community with friendship & respect. We hope to co-host the key Mayoral candidates at a 2024 Jewish hustings, where it will be clear that while London Jews may have varying political views, there is no fear present at all" Goldsmith waging a 'dog-whistle' Islamophobic campaign didn't work for the Tories previously. Surely they would be better advised to attack Khan's record as mayor? |
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Post by leftieliberal on Oct 3, 2023 11:26:09 GMT
Nigel Farage says Tory party becoming like Ukip, and GB News will help decide its next leader Nigel Farage has said that parts of the Conservative party are now like Ukip.Only parts? Simon Jenkins in The Guardian advocating Kemi Badenoch [1] as next Tory leader is obviously one of them: www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/oct/03/kemi-badenoch-next-tory-leader-not-bad-thing-for-partyYou would have thought that the Tories would have learned from electing Iain Duncan Smith as leader. About as much a disaster as Truss but it took them longer to realise it. Note: this is one reason I refuse to give the Guardian any money, because I know that some of it will go to d**kh**ds like Jenkins. Does Viner keep him on just because it gives the illusion of balance? [1] Badenoch is only good in comparison with Braverman and Patel. You could probably find at least 200 current Tory MPs who could make a better job of Leader of the Opposition, which is where they will be after the next GE. I happen to think that LotO is an important role in our politics because it keeps Governments honest. Poor LotOs let the Government off the hook too easily e.g. Iraq. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2023 11:52:50 GMT
[1] Badenoch is only good in comparison with Braverman and Patel. You could probably find at least 200 current Tory MPs who could make a better job of Leader of the Opposition, which is where they will be after the next GE. I happen to think that LotO is an important role in our politics because it keeps Governments honest. Poor LotOs let the Government off the hook too easily e.g. Iraq. So you think that Badenoch will let Starmer of the hook ? Seriously ! |
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Post by lens on Oct 3, 2023 12:10:55 GMT
Former head or senior director of HS1 and crossrail just interviewed on R4 and asked how he managed to come in under budget on HS1 I think it was. Also asked why he wasnt running HS2, to which he said he applied but was told he didnt have the necessary experience. Obviously it wasnt experience at building railways which the job needed. He first put the blame on designing the line for 400KMh running, which in fact has now been cut to 360 anyway. Described it as exponentially more expensive once you start increasing speeds. Said the technology they used on HS1 was simply adopted from the French system, off the shelf. He also then said they had the plan finalised before they started building anything, whereas HS2 has changed all the time adding extra costs. (and obviously is continuing to change. This issue of changing plans was brought up by the expert on 'more or less' for any sort of public project) Contractor for Euston station being interviewed saying the scheme is grossly over complicated compared to French schemes. Also noted that ending at OLD Oak common is ridiculous, 'you might as well scrap the whole lot'.Agree with pretty well all of that, though as regards the last sentence it's too late to "scrap the whole lot" - too much has been spent already, and what is currently under way will at least largely solve the capacity problem on the southern part of the West Coast Mainline. But if it was a chioce of scrapping the Euston bit *or* the line to Manchester, the former is the most bonkers. That would affect *ALL* the express trains from London north - build the Euston extension and apart from full benefit to Birmingham, journeys to Manchester, Glasgow, and pretty well everywhere north will benefit. (Even if by less than if the northern section was built.) It's all very well for the government to moan about cost overruns, but much is largely down to being prepared to spend vast sums to avoid upsetting pretty small numbers of people - the tunnels under the Chilterns and West Ruislip being obvious examples. Regarding comparisons with the continent you have to be a little careful - population density is far higher in the south east of England and the Midlands than such as northern France. About the only good thing I can think of to say about Sunak at the moment is that at least he's not as barking as Truss was........ |
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Post by Mark on Oct 3, 2023 12:20:27 GMT
*** ADMIN *** Regarding the recent issues re-new polling threads. Firstly, Mr Poppy was completely within the rules starting a new polling thread. Not only that, he followed the advice on doing so re-thread title to the letter. All but two of the main polling threads on UKPR2 were started by me. When setting this place up, I did not envisage that would be the case but, that is how it panned out. There is currently nothing in the board rules stopping any member from doing so. Whether members want that to continue to be the case is up to all of you. If you only want the main polling threads to be started by me, that is fine - if that is what most members want, I shall instigate a rule change. If most members want things to stay as they are, that is also fine. As to the 'new polling threads' followinng the one Trevor started, while not against the rules, this was just silly and petty. There ca be no sanctions as no rules were actually broken, but, I expect better from members. Regarding frequency of new threads, I rejected the idea of a set timescale (eg, once a month) when suggested a long time ago as it doesn't allow for events (for example, there will be a new polling thread jut before or just after the by-elections on the 19th). If you choose to keep things as they are, allowing members to start new polling threads, all I ask is that it is kept sensible, kept to the format, and no more pettyness. The formatting of the thread name and semi-regular polling threads also give an easy snapshot over time, which I think is useful. In this case, a new polling thread was overdue (my bad), so the first one started by Trevor was welcome. Any and all thought on this are welcome. |
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Oct 3, 2023 12:35:34 GMT
On the old board, when polling frequency increased, say around election times, there used to be a lot more threads, sometimes one a day. (Plus some threads where Indy was more welcomed etc.)
(Also, quite often a thread would begin with some analysis by AW to give a new justification and context?)
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Post by lens on Oct 3, 2023 12:36:39 GMT
Did you ever try to get a landline before BT was privatised? It took 6 months at least. You and others try to pretend that all the inefficiencies and poor service are the result of governments since 2010, and more specifically since Brexit. Not so. The perspective on this I heard was that when the telephone network was run as part of the GPO, income was treated in the same way as government income from taxation - new projects the same way as any other government spending. There was no easy way to connect the two up, even if it should have been obvious that a given capital spend would very rapidly bring in a very good return. Such as the delay in getting a landline (and I think 6 months is pretty optimistic!) was one way in which this was manifested publicly. The point was made about R&D within the GPO, and it shouldn't be forgotten that "Colossus" at Bletchley Park was the result of Tommy Flowers and the GPO at Dollis Hill. I strongly suspect that up until the 1950's GPO spending was largely influenced by the strategic and military aspects of that part of the GPO, and shouldn't be confused with capital spending to get a landline to an average consumer. But there was an awkward transition from the days when a telephone network effectively had to design and build all their own equipment, and when it became far more effective to buy off the shelf. Something not unique to the GPO/BT. When BT was formed, they became able to borrow to directly fund investment and waiting times certainly improved radically. (Which helped to improve income.) But it should also be remembered that pre-BT what could be installed in a house was limited to what they could provide. A GPO line meant a connection to the house, and a single handset which belonged to them (normally in the hallway). If you wanted an extension, they had to be paid to fit it, and retained ownership of the equipment. What we now think of as a standard phone socket, and the ability to run your own wiring and use third party phones was revolutionary at the time. |
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Post by athena on Oct 3, 2023 12:47:27 GMT
re conventions/rules for creation of new threads On balance, and recognising that it's a small extra duty for Mark , I'm in favour of a new rule that states that only the administrator is allowed to start a new main thread. I like the convention that conversations/digressions/spats aren't carried over from one thread to another, but by the same token I'd prefer to keep political discussion about a specific event one one thread, as per leftieliberal 's suggestion for GE campaigns. I'd have preferred us not to start a new thread in the middle of coverage of a party conference, similarly for byelections that generate a lot of interest. But I'd also be happy with having a convention that there's a new thread every month, in which case I don't see a particular need to wait for a poll (as a group we don't spend much time picking over the minutiae of indiviudal polls) or for the responsibility for starting a new thread to fall to Mark . Based on what I know of the times people tend to be logged on and commenting, it would usually fall to steve , Danny , neilj , mercian if he's up late enough (or me, as I often read the site first thing in the morning). Under this model it wouldn't make sense to have a convention that discussions aren't carried over from one thread to another. We could make exceptions to the one main thread per calendar month convention for GE or referendum campaigns although I personally don't think it's worth doing so unless anyone has plans to revisit and make use of the UKPR2 archive. I'd want to restrict the creation of 'exceptional' new main threads to the administrator.
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Post by thylacine on Oct 3, 2023 12:49:03 GMT
Hi Mark, I for one feel that only you as admin should be able to create a new main thread and I am pretty confident that will be the majority feeling.
My reasoning as follows
Avoids confusion, avoids disagreement of choice of poll to lead thread. Avoids suspicion of partisanship in choice of poll lead. Is decisive in terms of the decision and will prevent these unfortunate events occurring again.
One point I would make is my total disagreement with your judgement of pettiness in the posters who created and maintained the second poll thread, although you are correct that Trevor did simply follow rules you had previously outlined I'm afraid those rules were not universely known or I'm afraid very clear to many. I remember feeling so at the time. These respected posters I believe simply felt Trevor was doing something wrong, assuming a power he did not have and baiting with the poll he selected (let me be clear I don't think he was). I don't believe these posters were being petty and I think this was always going to happen with lack of direction which hopefully we now will have.
Some good questions were also asked by another poster that I am interested to hear the answers to. If you are blocked or have blocked the poster how does this affect your ability to see the new thread in a timely manner. And bearing in mind that the leading poll will always be seen first when the discussion thread is being opened how do you stop such being hijacked for partisan bias purposes unless you take on that responsibility yourself?
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neilj
Member
Posts: 6,457
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Post by neilj on Oct 3, 2023 12:55:28 GMT
Delta poll
Westminster Voting Intention:
LAB: 44% (=)
CON: 26% (-2)
LDM: 12% (+2)
GRN: 6% (=)
RFM: 5% (=)
SNP: 3% (-1)
Via
@deltapolluk
, 29 Sep - 2 Oct.
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