Mr Poppy
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Post by Mr Poppy on Oct 2, 2023 14:04:58 GMT
CON factions come and go. Some are quiet, some not. Total obedience to a dictator is not ideal but 'rats in a sack' is even worse. CON are drifting back to 'rats in a sack' mode and Rishi-Hunt are partially responsible for 'encouraging' that as they are offering very little for anyone to get even slightly excited about. ERG don't really exist anymore but many of those types have moved into the Conservative Growth Group (CGG) - who IMO are the most 'militant' at the moment. There is a lot of overlap with the Net Zero Scrutiny Group (NZSG) who seem to be influencing Rishi with their 'pro-motorist' views. Most CON MPs would claim to be 'One Nation' but the faction element is sometimes referred to as the 'wets' (and I doubt they number 100 - although the article calls them Tory Reform Group (TRG) and reckons they have 100ish*)
Battles on the backbenches - what are the different factions in the Conservative Party?news.sky.com/story/battles-on-the-backbenches-what-are-the-different-factions-in-the-conservative-party-12964275* Possibly 100 if many of them are on the 'pay roll' which is another overlapping group of 150+ MPs who are supposed to abide by 'collective responsibility' (ie not openly criticise CON HMG policy) |
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Oct 2, 2023 14:06:21 GMT
Yougov polling on the issue Would you support or oppose cancelling the portion of HS2 between Birmingham and Manchester, so high speed trains only ran between London and Birmingham? Support: 23% Oppose: 52% Via @yougov , 26-27 Sep. |
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Oct 2, 2023 14:08:58 GMT
Not sure tory party members swooning over Truss while she trashes Sunak is a vote winner
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Mr Poppy
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Post by Mr Poppy on Oct 2, 2023 14:20:23 GMT
IMO Badenoch would make a good LOTO after GE'24 and I did always like Cleverly (back in the days of JC4PM he was the better JC, IMO). Truss and Boris aren't on the list as they are not in cabinet positions but the Truss fan club at CON conf goes to show what a stupid idea it is to let members pick their party leader (for other examples see JCorybn for LAB and every LDEM leader in the last 15yrs). Anyway, Rishi made it off 'death row' this month (for the wrong reasons IMO) and I wouldn't disagree with CON members on 7 out of 8 of those in 'demotion' zone with -ve ratings. I agree with Hunt that now is not the time for tax cuts but Hunt is going to have to offer something a bit more that a 'damper'* squib if CON VI is to improve any further.
Our Cabinet League Table. In the wake of his Net Zero speech, Sunak’s position rises.conservativehome.com/2023/09/29/our-cabinet-league-table-as-the-tory-conference-looms-and-in-the-wake-of-his-net-zero-speech-sunaks-position-rises/* In the battle of damp/damper/dampest then seems to be progressing in time order so far - with LDEM having gone first and LAB still to come. |
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
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Post by pjw1961 on Oct 2, 2023 14:27:22 GMT
Mark - It might be useful to have some guidance added to "the rules" regarding a reasonable frequency for the creation of a new 'main' polling thread to prevent them being created: (a) too frequently, (b) too infrequently or (c) to suit particular individuals based on specific polls or because they don't like the direction the thread has taken. Looking at past threads somewhere around the 300th page looks typical. If everyone knows that a new thread starts around then, there would be less surprise/resistance to someone starting one.
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Oct 2, 2023 14:49:32 GMT
Awkward
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Post by leftieliberal on Oct 2, 2023 14:55:36 GMT
"the re-allocation of funds to other transport projects in the north"
Is this the reinvigoration of Boris's Bridge from the north of Northern Ireland - even though that's to the south of Scotland? I don't think the residents of Newcastle would take kindly to being relocated to Northern Ireland. You mess with Geordies at your peril. |
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steve
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Post by steve on Oct 2, 2023 14:56:34 GMT
The traitor rapist fraudster guide to how to double your financial penalty.
"In an all-caps post on his Truth social account containing at least one spelling error, Donald Trump accused Letitia James of being “CORRUPT & RACIST”.
He also called the presiding supreme court judge Arthur Engoron “ROGUE, OUT OF CONTROL” and “TRUMP HATING”."
That'll be $600 million then cheato Benito
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Mr Poppy
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Teaching assistant and now your elected PM
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Post by Mr Poppy on Oct 2, 2023 14:59:17 GMT
IMO Hunt is 90% re-announcing existing policy and 10% the current HMG (which is you Mr.Hunt) not using the process to do what it supposed to do. I might have those %s wrong but if it is just the process not working then WTF?!? Can hardly blame LAB HMG (pre 2010) or even LDEM coalition (2010-15) or Truss-Kwarteng. The problem with Hunt having nothing new to announce is that a/ Truss fan club will try to fill the vacuum with unfunded policies, b/ press will look at what should be announced (update of HS2, etc), c/ Hunt (et al) will 'pretend' old stuff is new, or worse - that they've failed to use existing laws/processes to do what CON HMG have been elected to do.
TBC but any conf polling bounce for CON might be a 'dead cat' being buried 6ft under (ie a downward bounce)
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Post by leftieliberal on Oct 2, 2023 15:05:24 GMT
Yougov polling on the issue Would you support or oppose cancelling the portion of HS2 between Birmingham and Manchester, so high speed trains only ran between London and Birmingham? Support: 23% Oppose: 52% Via @yougov , 26-27 Sep. It all depends on the question you ask. Try, "Would you be happy to pay an extra 1p in the £ on your income tax for the next 10 years to pay for HS2 to Manchester" and you might get a very different answer. People are always willing to agree to big capital expenditure when they don't think they will have to pay for it. I'd rather spend that 1p in the £ on the NHS. |
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Oct 2, 2023 15:36:24 GMT
I noticed a 20mph sign that had been deliberately defaced with black paint yesterday. I've never seen that before on any speed sign ever, in any country. You can't help thinking that this was criminal damage inspired by our own govt and PM for their short term advantage. Quite a thought, but that's the modern tory party for you. |
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Post by wb61 on Oct 2, 2023 15:37:36 GMT
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2023 15:50:10 GMT
I must confess I'm struggling to comprehend how Sunak can survive like this for another year.
"There is something wrong with the way in which we make our decisions. The Government listen too much to the pollsters and the party managers. The trouble is that they are not even very good at politics, and they are entering too much into policy decisions. As a result, there is too much short-termism, too much reacting to events, and not enough shaping of events. We give the impression of being in office but not in power. Far too many important decisions are made for 36 hours' publicity."
Norman Lamont
9 June 1993
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Mr Poppy
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Teaching assistant and now your elected PM
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Post by Mr Poppy on Oct 2, 2023 16:01:38 GMT
R&W latest:
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Oct 2, 2023 16:13:22 GMT
So we have Liz Truss, who cost ordinary families thousands strutting around smirking as if she's the cat that got the cream. We have a PM encouraging people to rebel against traffic enforcement measures and endanger our children. We have a govt that stripped all it's citizens of their longstanding EU rights whether they liked it or not and in doing so also hobbled the economy. We have a government that tries to incite hatred of non native British people at several different levels. Extraordinary isn't it?
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Post by leftieliberal on Oct 2, 2023 16:16:16 GMT
If I was the Labour leader I would be putting down a Vote of No Confidence in the Government as soon as Parliament comes back after their Conference. Rishi might find he had lost his majority, but even if the dissident Tories scuttle back to the fold, it would still be something to hammer them with. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2023 16:35:34 GMT
Many thanks for your support, I don't want to be a 'splitter' so happy to go with the majority
I am coming to the conclusion that many men seem to reach peak emotional maturity between 45-55, and then start to regress. There are exceptions to this, and the rate of regression is not the same for all. But it does explain a lot.  I haven’t suggested anything as far as I can remember (which is difficult when one is in constant pain**) I have simply viewed the shenanigans with a dignified contempt.  ** Please pm me with sympathy card and chocolate. |
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
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Post by pjw1961 on Oct 2, 2023 16:48:40 GMT
There is zero reason for that group to vote as a block against the government. More of a lobby group to campaign for unaffordable tax cuts. Therefore on we go for another year of chaotic short-term 'government'. |
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
Posts: 8,590
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Post by pjw1961 on Oct 2, 2023 16:50:56 GMT
If I was the Labour leader I would be putting down a Vote of No Confidence in the Government as soon as Parliament comes back after their Conference. Rishi might find he had lost his majority, but even if the dissident Tories scuttle back to the fold, it would still be something to hammer them with. I disgree. All VONC motions do is give the government a momentary period of success as their backbenchers rally behind them. A better tactic is to try an table motions that naturally divide the government benches - HS2 might be one such. Green policy another. |
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
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Post by pjw1961 on Oct 2, 2023 16:54:00 GMT
So we have Liz Truss, who cost ordinary families thousands strutting around smirking as if she's the cat that got the cream. We have a PM encouraging people to rebel against traffic enforcement measures and endanger our children. We have a govt that stripped all it's citizens of their longstanding EU rights whether they liked it or not and in doing so also hobbled the economy. We have a government that tries to incite hatred of non native British people at several different levels. Extraordinary isn't it? It also invites hatred againt certain sections of the 'white British' people as well - benefit claimants, public sector workers, LGBT+ (most especially Trans), 'leftie' lawyers/civil servants/academics/jornalists, etc. |
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Post by johntel on Oct 2, 2023 17:02:05 GMT
I just think it would help Paul out if we all act as he suggested we do.
I am coming to the conclusion that many men seem to reach peak emotional maturity between 45-55, and then start to regress. There are exceptions to this, and the rate of regression is not the same for all. But it does explain a lot. I haven’t suggested anything as far as I can remember (which is difficult when one is in constant pain**) I have simply viewed the shenanigans with a dignified contempt. ** Please pm me with sympathy card and chocolate. I was wondering how long it would be before you dived in to fan the flames. You should be more restrained - like that nice Mr Batty for instance. |
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Oct 2, 2023 17:09:56 GMT
The much trumpeted ban on mobile phones (actually a regurgitated Gavin Williamson policy that was rejected because it was impractical to implement) isn't actually a ban at all
It wont be law but guidance only, Keegan thinks that students shouldn't have mobile phones in school, wow hold the front pages
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Oct 2, 2023 17:12:32 GMT
This from a very angry Conservative Mayor
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steve
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Post by steve on Oct 2, 2023 17:23:15 GMT
Jeremy Hunt wows the audience in Manchester  |
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
Posts: 8,590
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Post by pjw1961 on Oct 2, 2023 17:26:00 GMT
Looks from that picture that he was addressing the Young Conservatives.  |
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steve
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Post by steve on Oct 2, 2023 17:26:08 GMT
@fecklessmiser
Paul I've emailed you a packet of aniseed balls
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Oct 2, 2023 17:28:19 GMT
Standards have fallen so far when Government Ministers formulates policies on lies, misinformation and conspiracy theories and keeps a straight face while he says it
Basing Government policy on what is “coming up in discussions online”, what next set up contingency plans in case the earth is flat
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Mr Poppy
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Teaching assistant and now your elected PM
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Post by Mr Poppy on Oct 2, 2023 17:29:20 GMT
It would be a bit cheeky but Badenoch might want to say something along the lines of the LW-twitterverse*, although perhaps closer to GE'24? I don't think Badenoch should deserve the job of CON leader after GE'24 (assuming the position becomes vacant) for any 'positive discrimination' reasons but because I think she'd make a very good LOTO** and ensure Starmer (assuming LAB win GE'24) stays on the 'Right' path.
Badenoch criticises opponents of inclusivity planswww.standard.co.uk/news/politics/kemi-badenoch-government-prime-minister-conservative-party-keir-starmer-b1110833.html#* I didn't agree with much, if any, of Abbott's policies but at least she had a view and IMO the Corbyn-era did help move HMG economic policies a little to the 'Left' (eg hike in corporation tax). ** Possibly PM after GE'29 if she can bring 'balance to the force'. Rishi was supposed to bring balance to the force, not leave it in darkness. However, I'll quote Master Yoda when the 'chosen one' looked to be messing it up: "there is another". Of course that might be Starmer but I've gone straight to being disappointed with him before he's started as PM (assuming he ever becomes PM). The time between "Ready for.." and "Disappointed with.." seems to keep shrinking  |
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steve
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Post by steve on Oct 2, 2023 17:45:56 GMT
Trevor presents all the best people paint brush or tooth brush or basil brush or whoever the fuck this anonymous Tory enabler is features prominently in Twitter under the heading " we are Jeremy Corbyn "
Colour me surprised that he doesn't like Keir Starmer, the gentleman that Starmer is seen chatting to obviously didn't get the message
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Mr Poppy
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Teaching assistant and now your elected PM
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Post by Mr Poppy on Oct 2, 2023 17:56:06 GMT
and Hugo Gye's 2c:
Kemi Badenoch makes striking play for Tory grassroots – but is careful to heap praise on Sunak
inews.co.uk/news/kemi-badenoch-makes-striking-play-for-tory-grassroots-2657852Part of Rishi's problem with bringing balance to the force is that many CON MPs (+members and VI) think he brought Boris down and for some mad reason think Truss was brought down by someone other than Truss herself. Compounding Rishi's problem is that he has close to nothing 'exciting' to say and, a bit like Starmer, seems to just have wanted to become PM but without any 'ideology' or plan once he got the job. 'The Emperor's New Clothes' tweets nailing it IMO and applying to Rishi, Starmer and that even duller bloke leading LDEM (whatever his name is) So Badenoch is careful to be loyal to the PM (as Truss was to Boris and Starmer was to Corbyn) whilst ensuring she puts herself forward as 'PM in waiting' (and LOTO while she waits). With Hunt et al having nothing much to say then it's not a surprise people are looking at 'whose next'. The 'rats' might be getting restless but surely even the suicidal factions aren't stupid enough to bring Rishi down before GE'24...? (not something I'd bet on though  ) |
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