11-AUG 2023 : LAB: 48% / CON: 24% / LDM: 10% / GRN: 6%

[steve]

Turning away from the lunacy of those who believe the will of the people here is best served by not allowing them to express it more than once the GOP first presidential debate was something to behold .

Along with the usual suspects and their usual fact free bullshit up popped Vivek Ramaswamy, Ramaswamy is a bio tech billionaire who believes in a whole rabbit warren of conspiracy theories.
Climate change :Hoax
9/ 11: Inside job
Jan 6th :It was the FBI and antifa.
Covid :Fauchi's fault
Trickle down economics : Perfect


Rarely have I seen a more egregious example of fascist performative cosplay.

And how the selected audience of cult members applauded.

The list of bat shit insanity went on and on.

Here's some of the" highlights "

youtu.be/Bqj-Doe_EzU?si=4jKGk1JgvVaaCqr9

[steve]

No sooner do I conclude that not responding to one particular poster is optimal as I have paint to watch dry instead, then we see the emergence of a triumvirate of brexitanian twatery occupying page after page.

Virtually back slapping themselves over their ability to believe the unbelievable and deny the blindingly obvious.


Personally I blame Paul.

Or possibly too much cheese last thing in the evening.

[steve]

Regarding the Wagner leaders unfortunate accident.

"The plane showed no sign of problems until a precipitous drop in its final 30 seconds, according to flight-tracking data. It made a “sudden downward vertical”, said Ian Petchenik of Flightradar24. Within about 30 seconds it plummeted more than 8,000 feet from its cruising altitude of 28,000 feet. “Whatever happened, happened quickly,” Petchenik said.
The type of jet has a good safety record, with only one recorded accident in more than 20 years of service".

It's almost as if it might have collided with something at 30,000 feet , that blew up when they hit what an unfortunate coincidence.These type of unfortunate coincidences seem common in dictator Putin's fiefdom.

Sympathies to the flight crew and flight attendant who were probably the only innocent people on board.

[Deleted]

Aug 23, 2023 23:03:25 GMT mercian said:

jen
Why are you so vituperative? It's not good for you.

She enjoys it ?

[crossbat11]

Ted the Northern Cat with some more pithy observations. An insight into what stoicism really means and what putting up with life's slings and arrows looks like.

Ted is becoming my hero. He's not one to complain about anything.

youtu.be/M-ZGJT_zWqg?si=IYzBYL6FtRZWtaPO

P.S. We've debated the move to the electrification of the motor car on here many times, but here's Ted's perspective on the issue. One that doesn't get much of an airing, sadly:-

youtube.com/shorts/IeSk958MjV0?si=wJ3QqMm0tYtRaXEY

[alec]

Once upon a time this would have been a big deal. Now, it's barely a shrug, such is the debasement of political honesty that we've witnessed in recent years.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/aug/23/rishi-sunaks-actions-wifes-shareholdings-breached-mps-code-conduct

[steve]

alec
What do you call it when another Tory gets caught breaching the ministerial code?

Thursday.

[crossbat11]

I think Mercian is misinterpreting his brief when I hand over to him for his Midnight Show. Not only is he extending it into a Twilight Shift but rather than be Ann Nightingale to my Bob Harris, he's taking on a shock-jock role instead.

My emollience and insight followed by his rancour and acrimony. Not the subtle change of mood befitting of the midnight hour.

When love should come tumbling down.

[moby]

Aug 24, 2023 2:03:01 GMT mercian said:

Aug 23, 2023 23:33:42 GMT moby said:

 within the country the different generations hate each other.

Where do you get that one from? I don't hate anyone really. Apart from on here I've rarely encountered anyone who really hates anyone else.

and from a later post:
"I see you selectively disregarded my point that all those methods you describe were in a short time frame?"

What about the forty years or so when a significant proportion wanted to leave the EU and were ignored? And anyway why should things that happen within a short timeframe be ignored? On that basis we could ignore Labour's GE wins from 1997-2005 and go back to Wilson in 1976 or whenever. Oh, hang on, that was a short timeframe too. Perhaps back to Walpole? He was PM for 21 years I seem to remember. Is everything since then invalid?

I'd like to say that this site is at it's best when its largely quite well-educated and knowledgable people discuss things rationally without hatred and abuse. For instance on the Brexit situation instead of hurling abuse, I'm sure that we could have a rational and even productive discussion on the pros and cons of rejoining EFTA for instance, or other compromises. Why not try? Abuse isn't going to convert anyone, but a rational discussion might achieve at least a grudging agreement on both sides,

Generation Z and the millenials feel seriously aggrieved at the decisions made by the baby boomers in relation to brexit, property, tax and housing for instance that's just for starters; leaving the EU and the loss of free movement has reduced the options of said generations regarding educational and working opportunities in Europe? Too many self interested decisions have been made by bigoted old white men, (like me) but thankfully 'times they are a changin'. 

The brexit process changed from decisions about the best way forward for this country to a narrative of 'betrayal' over a 51-49% decision. We therefore ended up with Johnsons brexit which did not represent the way people voted but it did further the political interests of a corrupt liar who within four years later had left Parliament under a cloud of opproprium never before seen. The 'nothing to see here' defence of 'its low on peoples priority list' doesn't change the fact that it was a bad, divisive outcome and the legacy of the decision you and like minded people made will result in long term damage to the interests of this country! I accept it will take time for the stupidity of the decision to feed through and push itself up the political agenda. We are distracted by Putin and the legacy of Covid at present but I hope it won't take long, especially amongst the younger generations.

[moby]

Aug 24, 2023 7:26:39 GMT crossbat11 said:

I think Mercian is misinterpreting his brief when I hand over to him for his Midnight Show. Not only is he extending it into a Twilight Shift but rather than be Ann Nightingale to my Bob Harris, he's taking on a shock-jock role instead.

My emollience and insight followed by his rancour and acrimony. Not the subtle change of mood befitting of the midnight hour.

When love should come tumbling down.

I think he took a hit from Che jen last night. He wasn't his usual jocular self after.

[lululemonmustdobetter]

Morning everyone.

The most disturbing (and there are a lot to chose from) thing to come out of the Republican debate last night is their unanimous man made climate-change denial.

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/aug/23/vivek-ramaswamy-focus-republican-debate

It shows the lengths the right are prepared to go to in their drive for power - and we can see the Tory party on the same trajectory. Totally fact free-politics driven by the likes of Murdoch's media. Hopefully Biden (far from perfect) will prevail. 

[neilj]

For any people who still think you can do a peace deal with Putin, then ask Prigozhin what he thinks of that...although you may find it difficult to get an answer

[Deleted]

EU Single Market rules ; Teeth ; and Belgian politics:-


"Forty-four per cent of the dentists who start working in Belgium have a foreign diploma, raising fears over safety and an explosion in fraudulent claims for dental care.
While all dentists practising in the country must appear before a “recognition committee” before setting up, regulators can do nothing to stop those who are clearly unqualified or lack language skills.
“When they appear before the recognition committee they cannot answer the simplest questions,” Frank Herrebout, chairman of the Flemish Dentists’ Union, said.
“Apart from the fact that they sometimes don’t even speak a word of English, they really know nothing about the business.”

Herrebout has complained that regulators are helpless to act against fake Romanian dentist diplomas. EU rules ensure mobility of the professions via mutual recognition that allows “equivalence” of European qualifications.
“We are at our wits’ end. We know of private schools in Romania where you can get your diploma for a fee,” he said.

“Very often they lure people from North Africa with the promise of a diploma. Due to European legislation, that diploma is then valid in every European country. Belgium is especially sought after because of our strong social security.”

The largest group of foreign qualified dentists — 9 per cent — are Tunisians, often with qualifications from Romania, who can practise without restrictions. The numbers of Belgians entering the profession are restricted by training quotas.
Frederik Ardenois, of the Association of Flemish Dentists, says that the EU rules lead to “discrimination” against Belgian dentists who must train for longer and to higher standards.

“We will have too many dentists due to this massive influx from abroad and that threatens to have a serious impact on our social security,” he told the Het Belang van Limburg regional newspaper.

Belgium’s federal National Institute for Health and Disability Insurance told De Standaard newspaper that illegal dentistry posed a threat to public health and finances because of fraudulent treatment claims.

“There is an illegal practice of the dental profession by foreigners. It is often accompanied by unjustified and fraudulent bills for dental care to health insurance and is obviously not conducive to public health,” a spokesman for the institute said.

Frieda Gijbels, a Flemish nationalist MP and a dentist herself, has identified foreign dentists who treat more patients than allowed under safety and quality rules. “It is humanly impossible to treat so many patients,” she said."

Times



www.politico.eu/article/belgium-break-up-flanders-wallonia-tom-van-grieken-vlaams-belang-far-right/

[steve]

lululemonmustdobetter
That's a tad harsh on Chris Christie, the best of a very rotten bunch.

He supports action on climate change with some caveats.

“When you have over 90 percent of the world’s scientists who have studied this stating that climate change is occurring and that humans play a contributing role, it’s time to defer to the experts.”

[johntel]

Aug 23, 2023 23:07:19 GMT jen said:

Rejoin will happen. It's inevitable. There is no need for debate. There is only need to wait for enough of the economically unproductive voters to die. Demographic change. Deal with it. You can't stop it.

Maybe if you prayed it would speed things up a bit?


Alternatively you could join a political party, influence their manifesto, campaign at an election and bring change through democratic action. 

[johntel]

By the way, has anyone done the Wordy today? I got it in 4.

[lululemonmustdobetter]

Aug 24, 2023 7:50:32 GMT steve said:

lululemonmustdobetter
That's a tad harsh on Chris Christie, the best of a very rotten bunch.

He supports action on climate change with some caveats.

“When you have over 90 percent of the world’s scientists who have studied this stating that climate change is occurring and that humans play a contributing role, it’s time to defer to the experts.”

But he failed, like all the others, to raise his hand when they were asked if climate change was being caused by human activity. 

[crossbat11]

Aug 24, 2023 7:53:48 GMT johntel said:

Aug 23, 2023 23:07:19 GMT jen said:

Rejoin will happen. It's inevitable. There is no need for debate. There is only need to wait for enough of the economically unproductive voters to die. Demographic change. Deal with it. You can't stop it.

Maybe if you prayed it would speed things up a bit?


Alternatively you could join a political party, influence their manifesto, campaign at an election and bring change through democratic action. 

But that's political activism.

We don't do political activism on here. Most rise above it and breathe more rarefied political air.

[steve]

Just a brief reality check.
Romania has an excellent reputation for dental services.
Training for dentists in Romania is conducted in universities and takes six years.

www.dentaltravelservices.com/blog/46-romania/85-dental-tourism-in-romania

[steve]

lululemonmustdobetter
He did indeed I did say He was the best of a rotten bunch.

[steve]

'Reasonable doubts' about cause of Prigozhin plane crash, France says
"France said on Thursday there were “reasonable doubts” about the cause of the plane crash that presumably killed Yevgeny Prigozhin, the head of Russia’s Wagner paramilitary group.

“We don’t yet know the circumstances of this crash. We can have some reasonable doubts,” the government spokesperson, Olivier Véran, told France 2 television."

Indeed we don't know if it was a bomb or a missile!

[Mr Poppy]

Aug 23, 2023 21:50:37 GMT eor said:

Aug 23, 2023 8:15:36 GMT Mr Poppy said:

I doubt students are that bothered who gets to decide on the contract for bin collections but they are more interested in who gets elected to make national and meaningful decisions that effect their future lives. 

True for some, yes - for others, whilst the contract for the bin collections might be of no issue, the setting of the licensing hours and conditions next term would be a rather higher concern than more nebulous issues in their distant futures  

(not to mention that council services would also be for many the first defence against poor or negligent behaviour from landlords in their much more immediate future!)

I appreciate you added the 

Yes, back in the day student drinking was very popular - quite the thing in Leeds in the 1980s I hear (and also Univ of Surrey late 1980s)

Not so much these days (well at least not of alcohol or in licensed premises perhaps)

Gen Z for zero tolerance: why British youth are turning off booze
www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jul/24/gen-z-for-zero-tolerance-why-british-youth-are-turning-off-booze

IMO students are very aware of IMPORTANT issues of the future (eg Climate Change). Whilst Climate Change is perhaps a 'nebulous' term then the implications of 'climate change' are extremely serious and IMO students take that a lot more seriously than an extra hour of drinking (noting that licensing laws have changed a lot since the 1980s anyway)

[johntel]

Aug 23, 2023 22:59:53 GMT jen said:

...The country needs decent, ethical, right of centre representation. We need to find a broad consensus, just as in the post-war years. The current Conservative Party is incapable of representing decent conservative people.

What does the current Conservative Party stand for? Corruption, misogyny, xenophobia and general (and in particular, economic) incompetence.

The current Conservative Party stands for the values my family (generally conservative) fought against 1939-45.

Tbh I think that's exactly what Starmer is selling at the moment and it seems to be going down pretty well with the public. 

[Mr Poppy]

Aug 23, 2023 22:41:16 GMT jib said:

Aug 23, 2023 22:14:51 GMT mercian said:

Well let's see - there was the referendum in 2016 won by Leave with a record vote for anything ever in the UK. Then in 2017 the Tories won a GE having said they would implement the referendum result. May 2019 the EU elections were won by UKIP. In December 2019 the Tories won a GE on a platform of 'Get Brexit Done'.  How many goes do you want? Best of 9, as Remain has already lost 4?

Ok, opinion polls say that there is currently a majority who say it was a mistake, but an opinion poll isn't an election and they also say that it is not an important issue. There were many times while we were members of the EEC/EU when Leave had a majority in opinion polls. The main parties all ignored it, so UKIP rose.

Well put.

If the rejoiners want that referendum, they need to campaign for it. Most people are fed up of the Brexit debate and are getting on with the reality = barely perceptible change.

As you say, opinion polls are just that. The hard reality of a referendum was fought and won- a clear and democratic decision.

IIRC then a few Remainers want to Rejoin.EU in order to be able to retire to Spain. How about the slogan.

Rejoin.EU so I can Live in Spain?

Of course as posted the last time we went through all this then people can still go and live in Spain. It's no longer "free" so perhaps those with lots of spare time that want to live in Spain could 'get a job', save some money and adjust Lee Anderson's comment slightly. 

If they want the whole country to Rejoin.EU, start paying £15billion+(ish) per year to Brussels, having to accept Brussels laws, possibly having lots of additional countries* with much lower wages than UK join EU, probably end up losing the £, etc. then start the campaigning and be honest about the implications of Rejoin.EU this time. 

'Carry on Moaning' and voting for a party that wants to 'Stay Out'?!? Well.. I never thought they were the intelligent types 

* I said 'possibly' as I don't have a time machine to check but we don't know what the EU's 'ever closer (and larger) union' will become in the future - the past suggest a continuation and 'muddling through'. So some folks are extrapolating to a plausible future - one I'd certainly get back out campaigning to stop UK ever joining IF the Rejoiners ever manage to get of their arses/keyboards and we get to the point of 'Stay Out v Rejoin' becoming something to spend political time discussing and campaigning for.

The EU in 2035: Bigger, messier, tougher
www.politico.eu/article/the-eu-in-2035-bigger-messier-tougher/

[Deleted]

Aug 24, 2023 7:53:48 GMT johntel said:

Aug 23, 2023 23:07:19 GMT jen said:

Rejoin will happen. It's inevitable. There is no need for debate. There is only need to wait for enough of the economically unproductive voters to die. Demographic change. Deal with it. You can't stop it.

Maybe if you prayed it would speed things up a bit?


Alternatively you could join a political party, influence their manifesto, campaign at an election and bring change through democratic action. 

Which party would that be ?

[wb61]

Aug 24, 2023 8:09:03 GMT crossbat11 said:

Aug 24, 2023 7:53:48 GMT johntel said:

But that's political activism.

We don't do political activism on here. Most rise above it and breathe more rarefied political air.

I would like to be politically active, just not allowed in my current role!

[Deleted]

Aug 24, 2023 8:11:41 GMT steve said:

Just a brief reality check.
Romania has an excellent reputation for dental services.
Training for dentists in Romania is conducted in universities and takes six years.

www.dentaltravelservices.com/blog/46-romania/85-dental-tourism-in-romania

But meanwhile-in Belgium:-


www.belganewsagency.eu/flemish-dental-association-raises-alarm-over-fake-dentists-from-romania

[jib]

Aug 24, 2023 8:30:00 GMT Mr Poppy said:

www.politico.eu/article/the-eu-in-2035-bigger-messier-tougher/

I think a few more sensible contributors realise the UK isn't going back to that.

Of course there will be reproachement and new protocols and the relationship will get closer.

Meanwhile a few hard nuts have something in common with this chap:
www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/194440

[steve]

colin
I'm not getting into this with you , however the report identified 27 cases over five years, it doesn't identify if service users were harmed, Belgium has nearly 9000 dentists.

Here's a case of the type of bogus dentist I think you might be referring to

On her online job application form, x claimed she was a qualified dentist and had completed the BDS in 1998 at the Sri Guru Ram Das Institute for Dental Sciences and Research in India, after studying for three years of the BDS at King’s College, London.

She provided copies of certificates to the QVH and the GDC that appeared to confirm this.

This individual was jailed for three years.
Bogus qualifications aren't a uniquely Belgium problem.

[mercian]

Aug 24, 2023 7:36:58 GMT moby said:

Aug 24, 2023 2:03:01 GMT mercian said:

 The 'nothing to see here' defence of 'its low on peoples priority list' doesn't change the fact that it was a bad, divisive outcome and the legacy of the decision you and like minded people made will result in long term damage to the interests of this country! I accept it will take time for the stupidity of the decision to feed through and push itself up the political agenda. We are distracted by Putin and the legacy of Covid at present but I hope it won't take long, especially amongst the younger generations.

You could make a start by suggesting that they could bestir themselves to vote. Good luck with that.