domjg
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Post by domjg on Oct 1, 2023 9:05:20 GMT
He got 23% so will need lots of allies most of whom are still committed to supporting Ukraine. It's a result of a highly fragmented party systemYes- an increasing feature across so many western democracies. Except UK ! ? Where as others have pointed out the centre right party has simply assimilated and over time become the far right party it initially wanted to neutralise. My point was that fragmentation is not necessarily a bad thing as Fico will not be able to act on his electioneering rhetoric once in power. It's the same reason I wasn't overly worried when Meloni came to 'power' in Italy. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2023 9:09:04 GMT
My point was that fragmentation is not necessarily a bad thing Lets hope your right ! |
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steve
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Post by steve on Oct 1, 2023 9:13:36 GMT
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Oct 1, 2023 9:14:42 GMT
Polish society is very divided it seems though we know what that feels like. Anecdotally I've heard tell of younger Poles living in cities or abroad having blazing political rows with parents and older relatives when visiting their rural hometowns. |
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Post by wb61 on Oct 1, 2023 9:38:05 GMT
I tend to use the official threads commenced by the Administrator |
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steve
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Post by steve on Oct 1, 2023 9:59:32 GMT
Sunakered redefines taxation
"Sunak replied:
As I said, the the best tax cut that we can give working people is to halve inflation.
When it was put to him that that was a no, he replied:
I’m a Conservative. I want to cut taxes."
Interesting because I can't recall Sunakered apologising for the tax rise caused by rising inflation!
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Oct 1, 2023 10:10:44 GMT
Personally I think Trev's new thread should be ignored.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2023 10:12:10 GMT
I tend to use the official threads commenced by the Administrator Troll…. |
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Post by crossbat11 on Oct 1, 2023 10:15:37 GMT
I tend to use the official threads commenced by the Administrator Quite right. I have to confess that I got confused by the Sunak sock puppet for a while. I shan't dally any longer on his dummy thread. The resident twerp and his silly games, hey, but I suppose this is both his life and his therapy so we should cut him some slack. And his little loyal band of followers too. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2023 10:59:42 GMT
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steve
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Post by steve on Oct 1, 2023 11:14:33 GMT
So Sunakered says been a " war on motorists " There's a technical name for this claim. It's called " a lie"  |
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steve
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Post by steve on Oct 1, 2023 11:35:51 GMT
I see the usual stuff about why won't the liberal democrats stand down in mid beds because they are enabling a Tory win, given this appears to be a genuine three horse race it's not particularly credible.
But on the subject of enabling Tory wins Labour has of course enabled everyone by supporting the first past the post system, no single party has achieved an outright majority of the votes at a general election since before Labour stood in general elections.
Neither Labour or Tory have ever managed to convince a majority of voters to support them, it's been close once or twice in the last century.
Both prefer to pretend they have majority support instead.
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Post by lululemonmustdobetter on Oct 1, 2023 11:37:56 GMT
Interesting thread about possible election date , I think there is a bit of wishful thinking by Hunt on that one. Improving economic data didn't help Major in '97, and for many the damage towards perceived Tory competence has been done by the Truss fiasco and the general state of the country is in being put down to 13-14 years of tory (mis)rule. And while the rate of inflation may be lower, many people still feel poorer and energy prices etc are still high.
Some of the polls are showing a significant narrowing of Lab's lead - but Lab's average lead still remains in the high teens. We will only be able to see if Sunak's relaunch and attack on green policies has had any lasting impact if the average Lab lead falls over the next couple of months. Tory re-launches overt the past few months seem to have eventually un-ravelled / backfired, as occurred over immigration. And the anti-green stance (which no matter how Sunak tries to position it, it is) could go the same way. On top of that, add the occasional unforeseen crisis and it still seems difficult to see the Tories closing the gap with Labour.
I caught a bit of the Kuenssberg interview with Sunak - and he came across as smug and arrogant, and his continued use of Johnsonesque phraseology such as 'there are spades in the ground' just made him sound like a prat. |
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steve
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Post by steve on Oct 1, 2023 11:39:48 GMT
"Some of the polls are showing a significant narrowing of Lab's lead -"
Well one is.
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Post by mercian on Oct 1, 2023 13:23:08 GMT
Personally I think Trev's new thread should be ignored. Yes. As a one-off it's perhaps harmless enough but it sets a precedent. We could end up with several 'main' threads started by different people. Nice to agree for once. |
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
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Post by pjw1961 on Oct 1, 2023 13:38:10 GMT
I see the usual stuff about why won't the liberal democrats stand down in mid beds because they are enabling a Tory win, given this appears to be a genuine three horse race it's not particularly credible. But on the subject of enabling Tory wins Labour has of course enabled everyone by supporting the first past the post system, no single party has achieved an outright majority of the votes at a general election since before Labour stood in general elections.Neither Labour or Tory have ever managed to convince a majority of voters to support them, it's been close once or twice in the last century. Both prefer to pretend they have majority support instead. Pedant alert - the Conservatives even without counting their allies got over 50% of the vote in 1931. With allies it was over 60%. I might add the the Liberal Democrats were in government 2010-15 and didn't make changing the electoral system a red line either, steve. |
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Oct 1, 2023 14:08:04 GMT
It is one of the biggest determinants of political views and VI these days. That and level of education. |
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steve
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Post by steve on Oct 1, 2023 14:09:11 GMT
pjw1961It's a bit of a push to argue 1931 given that in a number of constituencies for those who favoured the national coalition the only available candidate was a tory. Entirely agree about the lib dems in 2010 they missed their opportunity to exercise genuine change, as I recall Brown was prepared to offer AV without a referendum and a referendum on PR. I appreciate because of Labour losses the numbers would have made a coalition or confidence and supply exceptionally tricky , but given that 53% of voters had just voted Labour or lib dem the could have given it a try however difficult. I didn't vote for them anyway but speaking to many party members the fact that they didn't use their potential influence was responsible for a huge reduction in support.
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
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Post by pjw1961 on Oct 1, 2023 15:24:18 GMT
I'm indebted to a below the line poster on the Guardian for drawing my attention to the following, of which I was not aware. In 2012 a hard-right Kansas Republican Governor and a state legislature full of "Tea Party" Republicans decided to go the whole hog on the neo-liberal anti-tax line. They slashed income tax and more or less removed business taxes, claiming that this would create growth that would in fact increase the tax take. Suffice to say things went the way we lefties would predict. The state revenues collapsed, public services were repeatedly slashed but the expected growth failed to materialise. By 2017 the state was on the brink of financial collapse. Many of the extremist Republicans lost their primaries to more moderate candidates and the new moderate majority voted with the Democrats to restore the tax base. The entire article is very interesting and well worth a read. A reminder that 'Utopian' political ideas rarely survive contact with reality. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansas_experiment |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2023 15:24:43 GMT
It is one of the biggest determinants of political views and VI these days. That and level of education. Yes . just reading an article in ST on that. It has become much more polarised by age since the 2010s.The dividing line is stark-around age 55. Tendency to vote , of course, modifies that divide when it comes to a GE. And the ageing of the population feeds in as well.On current trends a majority of constituencies will be over that key age of 55 at the next GE. For the first time. |
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Post by Rafwan on Oct 1, 2023 15:34:20 GMT
steve“Faith and I are still hoping to enjoy our much delayed retirement to Spain in a couple of years time” Don’t go! That is just the time that the little one will start to get REALLY interesting. In ways you never had time to notice as mere parents..
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Post by crossbat11 on Oct 1, 2023 15:55:11 GMT
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2023 16:09:46 GMT
Yep. The Times article said the same thing. |
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Post by crossbat11 on Oct 1, 2023 16:18:29 GMT
A very enjoyable, if at times nervy, few hours watching the Ryder Cup singles this afternoon. The US team fought back well since they were whitewashed in the opening foursomes on Friday, but the European team held on well in the end to win by a comfortable five point margin.
The leaderboard had a lot of red on it at stages this afternoon but enough of it turned back to blue eventually. A colour change that politically I wouldn't normally relish. In Ryder Cup golf, it's OK, however!
Talking of politics, which I rarely do, something occurred to me about this current Conference season. When before, if ever, has the Labour Conference taken place after the Tory one? The traditional order of play has always been, certainly in my lifetime, Liberals, Labour then Tories. I always thought there was an advantage in that order for the Tories. They sort of had the last word.
Maybe this is a question for our resident political historians like jimjam, JamessE, pjw1961, Graham etc.
Why the change this year too?
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Post by graham on Oct 1, 2023 16:48:09 GMT
A very enjoyable, if at times nervy, few hours watching the Ryder Cup singles this afternoon. The US team fought back well since they were whitewashed in the opening foursomes on Friday, but the European team held on well in the end to win by a comfortable five point margin. The leaderboard had a lot of red on it at stages this afternoon but enough of it turned back to blue eventually. A colour change that politically I wouldn't normally relish. In Ryder Cup golf, it's OK, however! Talking of politics, which I rarely do, something occurred to me about this current Conference season. When before, if ever, has the Labour Conference taken place after the Tory one? The traditional order of play has always been, certainly in my lifetime, Liberals, Labour then Tories. I always thought there was an advantage in that order for the Tories. They sort of had the last word. Maybe this is a question for our resident political historians like jimjam, JamessE, pjw1961, Graham etc. Why the change this year too? I raised this point a few weeks back but am not aware of why the usual pattern has been broken. I believe that these conferences are arranged some years in advance so it is unlikely to be related to recent issues etc. |
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Oct 1, 2023 16:50:08 GMT
The sort of searing political insight we have come to expect from Truss...although as she hasn't ruled out running for the tories leadership again perhaps collective amnesia is her only hope
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steve
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Post by steve on Oct 1, 2023 17:07:41 GMT
RafwanEven after Brexit babies are allowed to visit.
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
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Post by pjw1961 on Oct 1, 2023 17:29:15 GMT
A very enjoyable, if at times nervy, few hours watching the Ryder Cup singles this afternoon. The US team fought back well since they were whitewashed in the opening foursomes on Friday, but the European team held on well in the end to win by a comfortable five point margin. The leaderboard had a lot of red on it at stages this afternoon but enough of it turned back to blue eventually. A colour change that politically I wouldn't normally relish. In Ryder Cup golf, it's OK, however! Talking of politics, which I rarely do, something occurred to me about this current Conference season. When before, if ever, has the Labour Conference taken place after the Tory one? The traditional order of play has always been, certainly in my lifetime, Liberals, Labour then Tories. I always thought there was an advantage in that order for the Tories. They sort of had the last word. Maybe this is a question for our resident political historians like jimjam, JamessE, pjw1961, Graham etc. Why the change this year too? The Guardian had a little piece explaining this. I would like to claim it is a master stroke by Labour but seemingly the reason is more mundane. Labour wanted to book the same venue in Liverpool two years running (not sure why) but that venue already had a booking for the 'traditional' dates that Labour first asked for and they could only get a later date meaning they would go last this time. They asked the Conservatives and Lib Dems whether they were ok with that and both said yes. I think it does carry a tiny advantage - you can react to what the others have said. |
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Post by somerjohn on Oct 1, 2023 17:57:38 GMT
Steve: "Even after Brexit babies are allowed to visit."
Your discussion with Rafwan struck a chord with me.
As I type, the sun is just setting behind the mountains across the bay. It's been 30 degrees today, but with a pleasant breeze to make things comfortable. The sea is still 25 degrees and our evening swim was idyllic. As the sky takes on post-sunset colouring of peach and turquoise, I'm enjoying my first drink of the day, a modest glass of a local-ish red from Utiel-Requena.
In short, the end to another idyllic retirement day in Spain. Oh to be here all the time! But... as Rafwan hints, what would be a no-brainer in the absence of kids and grandkids becomes a lot more complicated when family responsibilities intervene. The result, for us, is running a two-home set-up with a further division of UK time between where we live and the city where our two sons and three grandchildren live. It actually works pretty well, and means the 90 day rule isn't the problem it would be if this was our main home.
So I think Rafwan has a point, and if you can arrange things so that you have a UK pied-a-terre near family, as well as your main home in Spain, that will give you the flexibility you might find you need.
From a political point of view, the ability to compare the rate of progress here and in the UK is very instructive. I get the feeling some of the posters here who are most complacent about post-brexit Britain don't get out (of the country) much and so don't realise just how far and fast we're falling behind.
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Post by mercian on Oct 1, 2023 19:09:36 GMT
It's gone very quiet in here ... 👻
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