Danny
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Post by Danny on Sept 29, 2023 6:51:36 GMT
Wales is in decline thanks to 24 years of Labour government. The NHS has been declining for years under their watch. The disastrous handling of the M4 (again just to name a few reasons). Come off it. Wales is in decline due to several hundred years of English colonial rule, which has not ended. If you care to look up stats on delivery of medicine and public satisfaction, the NHS has done best under labour. In fact, improved steadily under labour administrations and declined steadily under con ones, as we see now. I have no idea what the issue might be with the M4, which might be something to do with my first point. Oh, and Khan's 'war on motorists' was a conservative policy he was required to implement as part of a funding agreement (though he might have agreed with it).
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Sept 29, 2023 7:03:10 GMT
The dangers of editing on the move. I added in the oilfields bit afterwards in the wrong place, it should have followed outside London. I rather liked the idea of an oil well placed in parliament square. Reminiscent of the great stink in the Thames which forced parliament to renew all London's drains.
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Post by crossbat11 on Sept 29, 2023 7:03:30 GMT
Graham
I think I sense where you may be going wrong with your political outlook. You keep labelling, demonising and pigeon-holing those who don't conform to your way of looking at the world. Hence your ludicrous references to Auschwitz to describe anything right wing. This seems to include centrists and social democrats too.
Don't you recognise that it's perfectly legitimate to hold non-socialist views and to do so isn't remotely evil, even if you may disagree with them?
There may well be very decent Tory politicians and voters too. From my experience, most of them are in fact. I disagree with them but I. don't dislike them. Actually, I like quite a few of them.
You need to leave your good v evil political pantomime world behind
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Sept 29, 2023 7:03:52 GMT
While the tories are piling on tax rises for the many they talk about scrapping inheritance tax for the heirs of millionaires
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Post by hireton on Sept 29, 2023 7:08:16 GMT
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Sept 29, 2023 7:20:01 GMT
Do you really believe that the State has the means to provide all pupils with an education comparable to Eton? God forbid that anyone has to undergo an education comparable to Eton if some of its recent alumni are anything to go by. You would prefer just to be ruled by people educated by Eton? I do see the point being made about elitist education conferring unfair advantage. Of course it does, thats the point. But the solution is not to ban it, but to truly level up the opportunities of everyone else. As with Heath, Wilson, Thatcher.
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Mr Poppy
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Post by Mr Poppy on Sept 29, 2023 7:42:40 GMT
Oh dear, it looks like Starmer-Reeves really didn't think their private school policy through. Scrapping charity status was... scrapped. Adding VAT has loopholes (and more than the below article highlights*)
VAT loophole means Labour’s school-fees plan could see some parents avoid tax for five yearsinews.co.uk/news/politics/vat-loophole-labour-school-fees-plan-parents-avoid-tax-five-years-2650786What is also fairly likely, in order to save costs, is that anything any private school was doing to help in their community will be scaled back. More watering down to come? Maybe a total scrap of attacking private schools and just CONtinuity CON? NB The 'collective's' view was/is to ensure private schools offer more bursaries to disadvantaged children - risking loss of charity status if they did not (and using existing rules of charities to enforce that). If Starmer-Reeves want to copy that idea then be my guest * Gift Aid would provide another option for where the very rich can effectively pre-pay fees avoiding VAT. Parents who have been paying (or intend to pay) private school fees from their salaries will be the ones who will no longer be able to afford to send their kids to private schools.
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Mr Poppy
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Post by Mr Poppy on Sept 29, 2023 7:48:54 GMT
I do see the Tories as 'a lower form of life' - but alas labour appears to be little better. A nice example of 'tolerance' and 'liberalism' - NOT How would you react if someone said X were 'a lower form of life' where X could be a gender/sexuality, religion, ethnicity, age, etc?
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Mr Poppy
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Post by Mr Poppy on Sept 29, 2023 7:53:36 GMT
I personally see how Khan is running London; Labour in Wales to see how ineffective they are at in running their areas. The SNP/Greens have shown that left wing governments aren’t effective either. I’m not saying I’m right at what I’m writing and I hope I cause no offence. I don't think you'll cause much offence, possibly some surprise, though, given current polling and, indeed, for the last year or so. Apart from your stated view that various left wing administrations aren't up to scratch, perhaps you could elucidate on why you think CON will prevail at the next GE bearing in mind what the polls presently suggest. Just FWIW then some polling... NB CON are 'Billy no mates' (possibly not even the DUP after they drove the Brexit bus over them). So for CON to form a govt after next GE they need to win a majority (ignoring SF who don't bother to show up). t7g4 might be the only person on UKPR2 who thinks CON will win an OM but then UKPR2 is not very representative of gen.pub. PS Just FWIW then implied probabilities via betfair are IMO understating the chance of 'No OM' (ie that is what I am literally betting on - although there is so little difference between Starmer-LAB and Rishi-CON then IMO it will make very little difference who wins and I'm not that keen on a messy hung parliament outcome) LAB OM: 66% No OM: 24% CON OM: 10% www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/politics/market/1.167249195?EC's prediction is based on current polling (ie a 'nowcast' rather than a prediction for GE'24) LAB OM: 93% LAB min govt: 6% NOC: 1% (ie CON probability of govt = 0%) www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/prediction_main.html
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steve
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Post by steve on Sept 29, 2023 7:53:45 GMT
pjw1961Turnout in Wolverhampton was 12%! I can't think of many lower totals
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steve
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Post by steve on Sept 29, 2023 7:58:09 GMT
How would you react if someone said X were 'a lower for of life' where X "could be a gender/sexuality, religion, ethnicity, age, etc? "
Suella Braverman does it every day!
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Sept 29, 2023 8:17:32 GMT
Perpetuating conspiracy theories is bad enough, formulating policy on them is delusional
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Post by wb61 on Sept 29, 2023 8:29:12 GMT
I generally find Owen Jones a bit difficult (perhaps too earnest and rigid) however his article today is about Braverman and that wing of the Conservatives defining "Britishness" the article is worth a read in full but I like this quote in particular:
"Those who attempt to sanctify national identity have dangerous motives. They leave minorities under perpetual suspicion, forcing them to try to prove their loyalty. They seek, too, to delegitimise dissenters who challenge the status quo, treating them as alien to their own culture. Consider how McCarthyism hauled suspected leftists before the House Committee on Un-American Activities, and the grim implications of allowing the modern Conservative party to define “Britishness” should become clearer."
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Post by lululemonmustdobetter on Sept 29, 2023 8:33:18 GMT
I may be the only person on the forum to predict the next election to be much closer than people think and the Conservatives to just get over the line. Hi t7g4. Ah, the the siren calls of wishful thinking. I will always remember one of my right-wing leaning lectures in the run up to the '97 election making similar comments to this, and that people will be surprised by Major etc.
Currently, objectively all of the evidence is pointing to a high probability of a Lab OM, after that Lab the largest party. I'd be interested in why you think the Tories will 'just get over the line.'
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2023 8:48:07 GMT
I may be the only person on the forum to predict the next election to be much closer than people think and the Conservatives to just get over the line. I see that you registered here in Dec. 2021. Your first post was in July this year when you posted a UNS forecast of 176 Tory seat losses and said "I think the support for Labour will reduce closer to an election." There hasn't really been such a reduction since then. What is the basis of your sustained optimism for this Government's electoral prospects ?
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Sept 29, 2023 8:49:37 GMT
Both Dan Hodges and Patrick Flynn on the case now
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Post by moby on Sept 29, 2023 8:50:33 GMT
I think you're almost the only person in the country at the moment but pray tell, what is your reasoning? Welcome btw, don't think we've seen you before. I personally see how Khan is running London; Labour in Wales to see how ineffective they are at in running their areas. The SNP/Greens have shown that left wing governments aren’t effective either. I’m not saying I’m right at what I’m writing and I hope I cause no offence. What do you base your view of Llafur's 'running of Wales' on?
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Post by moby on Sept 29, 2023 8:54:39 GMT
That's funny as the populaces of both London and Wales appear to be overwhelming supportive of their Labour led devolved administrations (which are of course largely dependent on central government funding). In Wales turnout at Assembly Elections is below 50% - often well below! www.electoral-reform.org.uk/poll-finds-growing-support-for-properly-equipped-senedd/This is the most recent polling I have seen. I think the popularity of the Senedd is actually growing.
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Post by moby on Sept 29, 2023 8:56:42 GMT
I may be the only person on the forum to predict the next election to be much closer than people think and the Conservatives to just get over the line. I see that you registered here in Dec. 2021. Your first post was in July this year when you posted a UNS forecast of 176 Tory seat losses and said "I think the support for Labour will reduce closer to an election." There hasn't really been such a reduction since then. What is the basis of your sustained optimism for this Government's electoral prospects ? Nice a Hoopoe.....I bet you've never seen one? There was one in a garden near Aberystwyth this spring:- www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/twitchers-flock-see-rare-hoopoe-26812335
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2023 9:06:13 GMT
I generally find Owen Jones a bit difficult (perhaps too earnest and rigid) however his article today is about Braverman and that wing of the Conservatives defining "Britishness" the article is worth a read in full but I like this quote in particular: "Those who attempt to sanctify national identity have dangerous motives. They leave minorities under perpetual suspicion, forcing them to try to prove their loyalty. They seek, too, to delegitimise dissenters who challenge the status quo, treating them as alien to their own culture. Consider how McCarthyism hauled suspected leftists before the House Committee on Un-American Activities, and the grim implications of allowing the modern Conservative party to define “Britishness” should become clearer." His opening line reads :-"What is Suella Braverman up to? Framing migrants as an existential threat to western civilisation," He might have got some clues from his colleague Patrick Wintour a few days ago :- "Migration could be “a dissolving force for the European Union” due to deep cultural differences between European countries and their long-term inability to reach a common policy, the EU’s most senior diplomat has said." opening lines from :-"Migration could be ‘dissolving force for EU’, says bloc’s top diplomat" Patrick Wintour. Guardian Sept 22
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Sept 29, 2023 9:08:04 GMT
Savanta
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graham
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Post by graham on Sept 29, 2023 9:16:55 GMT
We know your views - but you are a rather extreme centralist British Nationalist, and somewhat pathetically ignorant. "All power to the Central Committee"! I suspect you need to consult your mirror more often.
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graham
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Post by graham on Sept 29, 2023 9:22:29 GMT
Graham I think I sense where you may be going wrong with your political outlook. You keep labelling, demonising and pigeon-holing those who don't conform to your way of looking at the world. Hence your ludicrous references to Auschwitz to describe anything right wing. This seems to include centrists and social democrats too. Don't you recognise that it's perfectly legitimate to hold non-socialist views and to do so isn't remotely evil, even if you may disagree with them? There may well be very decent Tory politicians and voters too. From my experience, most of them are in fact. I disagree with them but I. don't dislike them. Actually, I like quite a few of them. You need to leave your good v evil political pantomime world behind When did I mention Auschwitz? Moreover, I have never suggested that voters all have to be Socialists - I am not even on the extreme Left myself!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2023 9:24:35 GMT
I see that you registered here in Dec. 2021. Your first post was in July this year when you posted a UNS forecast of 176 Tory seat losses and said "I think the support for Labour will reduce closer to an election." There hasn't really been such a reduction since then. What is the basis of your sustained optimism for this Government's electoral prospects ? Nice a Hoopoe.....I bet you've never seen one? There was one in a garden near Aberystwyth this spring:- www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/twitchers-flock-see-rare-hoopoe-26812335Its a regular spring accidental to UK. 100 or so each year overshooting on passage. The significance is a first UK breeding record. In Leicestershire this year. Yet another avian climate change response, You lost your bet
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Post by wb61 on Sept 29, 2023 9:28:09 GMT
When did I mention Auschwitz? Wasn't Arbeit Macht Frei the words above the entrance at Auschwitz?
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Post by alec on Sept 29, 2023 9:44:13 GMT
Isn't he pathetic? -
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graham
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Post by graham on Sept 29, 2023 9:46:00 GMT
When did I mention Auschwitz? Wasn't Arbeit Macht Frei the words above the entrance at Auschwitz? And many other places! There is a great deal of historical ignorance re -'Arbeit Macht Frei.' Those words first appeared at Nazi concentration camps in mid- 1933 , whilst the Wannsee Conference which foreshadowed the Holocaust did not occur until January 1942 - a gap of some eight and a half years. It is ,therefore, not accurate to see the term as synonymous with the atrocities of World War 2 - it goes back much further to the imprisonment of political opponents of the Nazi regime - Communists, Socialists, Trade Unionists , Churchmen as well as the Jews - very soon after Hitler took power in early 1933. Whenever I use the term , I have in mind what happened at the outset of that reign of terror.
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Sept 29, 2023 9:46:27 GMT
I do see the Tories as 'a lower form of life' - but alas labour appears to be little better. A nice example of 'tolerance' and 'liberalism' - NOT How would you react if someone said X were 'a lower form of life' where X could be a gender/sexuality, religion, ethnicity, age, etc? Hey, its politicians he is talking about! [/quote]
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Mr Poppy
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Post by Mr Poppy on Sept 29, 2023 9:47:55 GMT
I generally find Owen Jones a bit difficult (perhaps too earnest and rigid) however his article today is about Braverman and that wing of the Conservatives defining "Britishness" the article is worth a read in full but I like this quote in particular: "Those who attempt to sanctify national identity have dangerous motives. They leave minorities under perpetual suspicion, forcing them to try to prove their loyalty. They seek, too, to delegitimise dissenters who challenge the status quo, treating them as alien to their own culture. Consider how McCarthyism hauled suspected leftists before the House Committee on Un-American Activities, and the grim implications of allowing the modern Conservative party to define “Britishness” should become clearer." His opening line reads :-"What is Suella Braverman up to? Framing migrants as an existential threat to western civilisation," He might have got some clues from his colleague Patrick Wintour a few days ago :- "Migration could be “a dissolving force for the European Union” due to deep cultural differences between European countries and their long-term inability to reach a common policy, the EU’s most senior diplomat has said." opening lines from :-"Migration could be ‘dissolving force for EU’, says bloc’s top diplomat" Patrick Wintour. Guardian Sept 22 I'll repost that link:
Migration could be ‘dissolving force for EU’, says bloc’s top diplomatwww.theguardian.com/world/2023/sep/22/migration-eu-diplomat-josep-borrell-ukraine-chinaand view from across the pond:
"New York is a city of immigrants - but its mayor* says migration crisis may 'destroy' it"news.sky.com/story/the-world-is-facing-unprecedented-migration-but-there-is-no-common-ground-12970082I would agree with Owen Jones on at least one point: "Braverman’s ambition is not matched by talent"www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/sep/28/bravermanism-future-british-right-extreme-views-mainstream-suella-bravermanWe see that in polling. People think CON are doing a bad job of handling immigration and it's a divisive issue: a/ Some people want to see some actual delivery rather than divisive 'words' and lacking delivery, rightly think CON are doing a bad job b/ Some people find her words very offensive and have a naive (IMO) view of how we should tackle illegal immigration - so they 'leftie' think CON are doing a bad job (and that LAB would be at least 'less bad' if not actually much better). CON won't be able to please group b/ (and I doubt a LAB HMG would either, although ABCON might be enough for them to vote LAB). It is group a/ that IMO they need to win in order to make GE'24 a 'contest' (see a post I might bother to repost/write later going back over how CON could plausibly win GE'24 - or at least narrow the gap to 'hung parliament') * Eric Adams (Democrat): en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Adams
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Sept 29, 2023 9:48:57 GMT
I generally find Owen Jones a bit difficult (perhaps too earnest and rigid) however his article today is about Braverman and that wing of the Conservatives defining "Britishness" the article is worth a read in full but I like this quote in particular: i have no idea how Braverman, as a foreigner herself, was ever allowed to become an MP. She must agree with that herself.
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