11-AUG 2023 : LAB: 48% / CON: 24% / LDM: 10% / GRN: 6%

[pete]

Aug 13, 2023 20:11:47 GMT birdseye said:

Aug 13, 2023 17:35:41 GMT c-a-r-f-r-e-w said:

Starmer more trusted than Sunak to deliver on PM’s own priorities
Labour leader is seen as better placed to deal with four out of his Tory counterpart’s five key pledges, poll shows

“Sir Keir Starmer is more trusted by voters than Rishi Sunak to deliver on four of the Prime Minister’s own five priorities, new opinion polling has found.

The Labour leader beat his Tory opponent when it came to who was best placed to halve inflation, grow the economy, reduce the national debt, and cut NHS waiting lists.

That any of the responses saw either of them reducing the national debt shows the value of such polls. We have an Alice in Wonderland situation with dishonest politians offering  totally unreal promisses and the public take a view on who will achieve them. Fantasy land!

Who do we blame for that though? The politicians, public or press?

[oldnat]

So, who in UKGov signed the contract for the Bibby Stockholm - in breach of UKGov's own procurement rules?

[jib]

Aug 14, 2023 17:14:39 GMT steve said:

c-a-r-f-r-e-w
There are no countries in the European union with smaller economies than prior to covid.
The U.K. does.
Of course there's variation between member states but the eurozone's 20 members are expected to grow by 1.1% on average and 1.6% next year. By comparison, the UK economy is expected to be weaker, with growth of 0.25% expected this year and 1% in 2024, according to the Bank of England.

"Impact of the COVID-19 pandemic

The consequences of the COVID pandemic were not insignificant in the United Kingdom 2020. Overall, gross domestic product in 2020 fell from 2.857 trillion US dollars to 2.705 trillion US dollars. With a drop of 5.3 percent, the economy in the United Kingdom suffered more significant losses than other countries. The tourism sector alone slumped by around 54 percent. The unemployment rate rose from 3.7 to 4.5 percent. The country's gross debt increased by 13.3 percent. The inflation rate fell from 1.7 percent previously to 1.0 percent by the end of 2020.

In 2021, there was already a recovery and the gross domestic product increased to 3.122 trillion US dollars (=109.3% of 2019)."

Source: www.worlddata.info/europe/united-kingdom/economy.php

#bollocksaboutbrexit

[pete]

Aug 13, 2023 20:45:14 GMT oldnat said:

Aug 13, 2023 20:37:58 GMT Danny said:

Oh for the good old days of Blair and Brown with borrowing capped at the rate of growth of GDP.

So, you were a fan of PFI - keeping borrowing off the books and burdening future generations?

For accuracy John Major. B&B just took it and ran with it. Still, would've been no need if previous governments had looked after the NHS properly in the first place, not sure who was in power before them but surely history  wouldn't repeat itself?

[steve]

jib
Obviously there wasn't similar impact in the European union.
Said nobody ever!

[domjg]

Aug 14, 2023 15:13:08 GMT crossbat11 said:

somerjohn

You beat me to the Will Hutton Observer article!

A devastating analysis of the true state of the British economy.

It punctures many a puffed up complacent delusion.

Depressing and devastating, what have these tories done to this country in their narcissism, entitlement, incompetence and recklessness.  Hopefully it will be decades before anyone even vaguely re-considers the always ridiculous notion that they are better on economic management. 

The millions of the gullible who enabled them and were only too willing to lap up their nonsense in having their English exceptionalist egos stroked also bear great culpability. 

[James E]

c-a-r-f-r-e-w

Re your long post to me above (14:41)

I won't quote this back, so as to try to keep this readable. To answer your points:

1. Clearly the 'lies on the bus' helped the Leave side to win. But that it not the same as claiming that Leave increased their support during the referendum. The detailed evidence I have linked above shows clearly that this was not the case. I have cited Jan 2016 as the start of the campaign, but this is not 'cherry picking'. The formal campaign, and the 'lies on the bus' came later, so if we use that, any gains by leave become less, even by the standards of the graph you have linked.

2. The advantage of looking at one pollster is a true like-for like comparison. As internet pollsters, YG and Opinium did not make the methodological change which phone pollsters needed to apply during May 2016. This is very helpful in establishing whether there was really any polling movement (as opposed to methodological changes producing different outputs).

3. Re Polling error: yes, there was a significant overall error, although the pollsters I have quoted (YouGov and Opinium) were fairly accurate. But your point was about polling movement during the campaign - which is an entirely different thing. See also the paper linked below by John Curtice in May 2016 re Internet and  Phone polls. [On page 3 of this there is some very interesting data which divides the period from sept 2015 to May 2016 into 3 periods. In each of these, Internet polls show on average a dead heat, at 50/50. It was only the phone polls which moved towards leave, and these underwent heavy methodological change in the campaign, when it was found that educational level was a strong determining factor in Voting, and phone polls included too many graduates.] 

4. While you quote events such as Partygate and Truss's short leadership, these don't appear to have had any noticable effect on EU polling (as opposed to General Election VI). There is slow,steady movement towards Rejoin, and in fact, Truss's time in Downing Street (and the Con recovery under Sunak) have had no impact on this.

And there is no need to keep quoting my name (as you do 4 times). It should be clear from the quotes who your comments were addrressed to.


www.whatukthinks.org/eu/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Analysis-paper-6-The-Divergence-Between-Phone-and-Internet-Polls.pdf

[jib]

Aug 14, 2023 17:35:39 GMT steve said:

jib
Obviously there wasn't similar impact in the European union.
Said nobody ever!

What are you going on about?
Caught out - yet again - by simple fact checking (re: claim that the UK economy is now smaller than before Covid).
You need to look beyond your Remainer Facebook group / "chums" for reality.

[steve]

jib
You're not even on nodding terms with reality , isn't it time for another holiday.

[jib]

Aug 14, 2023 17:53:14 GMT steve said:

jib
You're not even on nodding terms with reality , isn't it time for another holiday.

I wish, although a month in Spain would be very nice. Maybe Greece. The food and wine is better in France though.
Soon I hope.
You're still wrong though. Don't expect you to accept that fact though!

[domjg]

Aug 14, 2023 17:31:25 GMT jib said:

Aug 14, 2023 17:14:39 GMT steve said:

c-a-r-f-r-e-w
There are no countries in the European union with smaller economies than prior to covid.
The U.K. does.
Of course there's variation between member states but the eurozone's 20 members are expected to grow by 1.1% on average and 1.6% next year. By comparison, the UK economy is expected to be weaker, with growth of 0.25% expected this year and 1% in 2024, according to the Bank of England.

"Impact of the COVID-19 pandemic

The consequences of the COVID pandemic were not insignificant in the United Kingdom 2020. Overall, gross domestic product in 2020 fell from 2.857 trillion US dollars to 2.705 trillion US dollars. With a drop of 5.3 percent, the economy in the United Kingdom suffered more significant losses than other countries. The tourism sector alone slumped by around 54 percent. The unemployment rate rose from 3.7 to 4.5 percent. The country's gross debt increased by 13.3 percent. The inflation rate fell from 1.7 percent previously to 1.0 percent by the end of 2020.

In 2021, there was already a recovery and the gross domestic product increased to 3.122 trillion US dollars (=109.3% of 2019)."

Source: www.worlddata.info/europe/united-kingdom/economy.php

#bollocksaboutbrexit

What would you guys do without having Covid as a beard eh? The more often it's mentioned the more it indicates desperation in trying to deny the impacts of brexit.

[c-a-r-f-r-e-w]

Aug 14, 2023 17:46:03 GMT James E said:

c-a-r-f-r-e-w

Re your long post to me above (14:41)

I won't quote this back, so as to try to keep this readable. To answer your points:

1. Clearly the 'lies on the bus' helped the Leave side to win. But that it not the same as claiming that Leave increased their support during the referendum. The detailed evidence I have linked above shows clearly that this was not the case. I have cited Jan 2016 as the start of the campaign, but this is not 'cherry picking'. The formal campaign, and the 'lies on the bus' came later, so if we use that, any gains by leave become less, even by the standards of the graph you have linked.

2. The advantage of looking at one pollster is a true like-for like comparison. As internet pollsters, YG and Opinium did not make the methodological change which phone pollsters needed to apply during May 2016. This is very helpful in establishing whether there was really any polling movement (as opposed to methodological changes producing different outputs).

3. Re Polling error: yes, there was a significant overall error, although the pollsters I have quoted (YouGov and Opinium) were fairly accurate. But your point was about polling movement during the campaign - which is an entirely different thing.

4. While you quote events such as Partygate and Truss's short leadership, these don't appear to have had any noticable effect on EU polling (as opposed to General Election VI). There is slow,steady movement towards Rejoin, and in fact, Truss's time in Downing Street (and the Con recovery under Sunak) have had no impact on this.

And there is no need to keep quoting my name (as you do 4 times). It should be clear from the quotes who your comments were addrressed to.

You have suggested that there was some polling error of a few percent. But if you look at the shift in polling between peak Remain lead and the ref result, then it’s a rather bigger shift from Remain to leave than that. Regarding campaigning, there is the actual campaign immediately before the ref., but there was also a lot of informal campaigning before that including in the press which one cannot really ignore. 

I didn’t cite Truss and party gate as an example of factors affecting EU polling, but as an example of how events can impact polling outcomes in general, alongside campaigns and polling error.

p.s. it was three times James. Now it’s four! (Probably because I compiled the post in bits between doing other things) 

[Rafwan]

steve

Thanks, but this is getting a bit thin isn't it? He had no reported activities on Saturday, Sunday, Bank Holiday Monday, Tuesday and Weds. And this was over THREE weeks before Referendum Day! You side with the pursed-lips nay-sayers who call it a "holiday" if you like (and in fact we really have no idea what he was actually doing). I call it a very sensible break, maybe with a bit of walking in the Welsh countryside, to prepare for the full heat of the coming campaign. Please!

[somerjohn]

jib

Your "worldinfo" GDP figures look very odd and quite at variance with ONS figures. Maybe distorted by exchange rate movements, because they're presented in dollar terms?

As you'll see, the ONS figures show UK GDP falling sharply with covid, then bouncing back, then flatlining. From memory, still 0.2% below the last pre-covid quarter:

[lululemonmustdobetter]

Personally, the issue with the Brexit debate is that the impact is one of relative decline, so there are certain 'cherries' that can be picked by those who want to deny that Brexit has been damaging to our economy. Also, we are still one of the largest economies in the world with a number of advantages, which in the short term can hide the effects its having. As was the case in the 50's and 60's we are likely to see our economic performance under-perform those economies in the EU that our comparable to ours.

What's happening with FDI illustrates this, as a share of European FDI it peeked in '15, but has declined since them. This report is interesting.

www.ey.com/en_uk/news/2023/06/foreign-direct-investment-uk-remains-second-in-europe-despite-a-fall-in-project-numbers#:~:text=The%20UK%20hosted%20929%20FDI,peak%20of%2021%25%20in%202015.

It was always clear to anyone with a modicum of sense, you didn't need an economics degree, that leaving the EU would mean increased barriers to trade and access to our main markets in Europe (especially from a services perspective), and this in turn would influence investment decisions. The offer in the UK now has to be clearly better than a comparable option within the EU, so in marginal investment decisions the UK will lose out - which is probably behind the greater emphasis on high quality projects rather than volume. If this trend continues it could have a number of consequences in regards to the diversity of our economy and exacerbate concentrations of wealth in certain sectors geographies etc

[c-a-r-f-r-e-w]

Just saw this in the Telegraph

YouGov threatens to quit London for New York as City exodus grows
Listing across the Atlantic would deal a fresh blow to the UK’s struggling stock market

…

“The YouGov chief added that while the company had previously been too small to consider a listing in the US, it was now weighing up the move after buying a consumer data division from German market research group GfK in a €315m deal earlier this year.

He said: “Until recently, we’ve been too small. With the recent acquisition, that’s increased our size by 50pc overnight. I do feel that we could be introduced to a bigger market, [which] would be helpful.”

Mr Shakespeare this month moved to the role of chairman at YouGov, handing over as chief executive to former Meta executive Steve Hatch. Mr Shakespeare and his family own around 8pc of YouGov, which is valued at just over £1bn.”

[pete]

Aug 14, 2023 18:34:06 GMT c-a-r-f-r-e-w said:

Just saw this in the Telegraph

YouGov threatens to quit London for New York as City exodus grows
Listing across the Atlantic would deal a fresh blow to the UK’s struggling stock market

…

“The YouGov chief added that while the company had previously been too small to consider a listing in the US, it was now weighing up the move after buying a consumer data division from German market research group GfK in a €315m deal earlier this year.

He said: “Until recently, we’ve been too small. With the recent acquisition, that’s increased our size by 50pc overnight. I do feel that we could be introduced to a bigger market, [which] would be helpful.”

Mr Shakespeare this month moved to the role of chairman at YouGov, handing over as chief executive to former Meta executive Steve Hatch. Mr Shakespeare and his family own around 8pc of YouGov, which is valued at just over £1bn.”

City exodus? Surely not? Brexit is going swimmingly.

[jib]

Aug 14, 2023 18:13:07 GMT somerjohn said:

jib

Your "worldinfo" GDP figures look very odd and quite at variance with ONS figures. Maybe distorted by exchange rate movements, because they're presented in dollar terms?

As you'll see, the ONS figures show UK GDP falling sharply with covid, then bouncing back, then flatlining. From memory, still 0.2% below the last pre-covid quarter:View Attachment

The ONS figures you use are based on Sterling £, I've used the US $ which is a better measure of the value of the UK economy globally.

Which has grown significantly as I illustrated, undoubtedly aided by the improvements in the value of Sterling.

[Danny]

Aug 14, 2023 11:21:05 GMT alec said:

A quick heads up on covid variants: while the EG5.1 variant is garnering headlines as cases bounce up again,

It is?

I havn't seen any!

but one thing we can be certain of is that whether this one is the real deal or not, covid will in due course churn out a lethal variant that takes us right back to March 2020, or worse. It's a matter of time - unless we start breaking transmission chains.

The wave of illness in 2020 was because we had little experience of this disease in recent years. Certain research has suggested human contact with this disease in the past. Although we know other related viuses such as the sars and mers created immunity to covid too. So its possible some of the immunity around the world was created by waves of these other diseases. Which didnt much get to europe, and so we had it worse.

The problem with your plan to try to eradicate covid, is that if you succeed, then we will lose immunity to it and create the opportunity for a future severe new wave. Its contact with these diseases which keeps us permanently safe. The price is the odd cold, and I agree with you that all infections cause a degree of harm. Its our body cells being killed. However for good or ill, thats how it works. Evolution has dictated that the individual is expendable in the quest for the survival of the race.  Even the man made covid vaccines end up killing human cells.

The reason medics fear bird flu is because its in birds and doesnt much transmit to man. So we dont have experience and therefore immunity to it. Should it make a genetic leap so it can severely infect people, then it would find a naive population with limited immunity.  Thats why covid was dangerous. Because it was not already freely circulating amongst humans. But you seek to recreate that condition. After we paid the price to get our immunity up to speed, you would throw away that advantage and make us start again.

(although actually covid wasnt too dangerous at all to an actual healthy human, only those aready getting past their prime one way or another)

[c-a-r-f-r-e-w]

Data on insecure work in UK shows ‘structural racism in action’, TUC says
Number of black and minority ethnic workers in low-paid and insecure jobs doubled in past decade, figures reveals

www.theguardian.com/society/2023/aug/14/tuc-says-uk-insecure-work-structural-racism-in-action-black-minority-ethnic-workers

[steve]

somerjohn

He probably thinks the ons is a remain conspiracy, what with their reliance on reality.

He's in a dwindling band of the self deluded and is just annoyed to be on the wrong side of history.

[Danny]

Aug 14, 2023 11:38:02 GMT graham said:

I don't agree. I actually voted Leave on the same basis that you were minded to until the last moment. It was a rational decision to seek to deny a political triumph to a Tory PM who had called the Referendum for reasons of internal Tory party politics and who had spent the previous 18 months scaremongering to get his way - successfully in terms of the 2015 election though unsuccessfully in terms of the London mayoral election in May 2016. He tried it again with the EU Referendum and I was happy to see Cameron get his comeuppance. Now had it been a vote on Johnson's terms or Remain , I would not have hesitated to vote Remain - but it wasn't! That we ended up with the worst possible Brexit Deal I blame on two groups  - the ERG Leavers who actually wanted it - and the Extreme Remainers - Anna Soubry et al , the LDs , SNP - who wanted a complete reversal of the vote. The latter's failure or inability to compromise condemned us to the Johnson Deal. They gambled - and lost very badly indeed, and share responsibility for the consequences.

What do you mean we ended up with the worst possible brexit deal? We ended up with the only possible brexit deal.

The rationale of brexit in the end was to sever ties between UK and EU. You cannot do that eg if you stayed in EFTA. Parliament spent was it three years trying to find an alternative brexit other than the one Johnson finally accepted. Looking for a loophole it couldn't find. The fudge was just too sticky to convince leavers that efta would have amounted to leaving. Although they were happy to imply it did before the vote. Leave tried every trick they could to confuse the issue and imply there was an outcome which was a good brexit. There just wasnt. The EU is accused of being a nascent super state, but it really isnt. Its a collection of thousands of ideas how better to conduct international trade, each of which stands on its own merits. They have created a package deal which cannot really be unpicked.

I agree with people that the Uk cannot now simply undo the damage it caused itself through Brexit. We will have to accept something like EFTA where we basically get the benefit of the market by following its rules, without being a member which makes those rules. This was the position leavers found objectionable. The UK as vassal state. But it is what they have brought upon themselves. They destroyed 50 years of succesive governments creating an alternative to the lost empire. Putin's proudest moment.

[Deleted]

Aug 14, 2023 17:59:39 GMT jib said:

Aug 14, 2023 17:53:14 GMT steve said:

jib
You're not even on nodding terms with reality , isn't it time for another holiday.

I wish, although a month in Spain would be very nice. Maybe Greece. The food and wine is better in France though.
Soon I hope.
You're still wrong though. Don't expect you to accept that fact though!

That seems like rather a flattering portrait of the Jibbster.

[somerjohn]

JiB: "I've used the US $ which is a better measure of the value of the UK economy globally."

Ah, OK. So in your world, UK GDP fell by 1.6% last year.

Brexit going well, is it?

[Danny]

Aug 14, 2023 14:52:03 GMT Mr Poppy said:

"One negotiator of the 2004 contract for general practitioners later bragged they won such a great deal that salaries soared 60 per cent over the next three years"

I looked up MPS pay since 2010, and it seems they have more or less stayed neutral compared to inflation, so in real terms much the same. This contrasts rather to the 30% pay cut they inflicted on doctors.

An obvious counter to this would be to say, 'ah, but if you go back to 2000, then we see doctors have actually gained, or had neutral pay'. Only...the government hasnt said this. Perhaps it isnt true?

The bottom line currently is that the NHS has huge staff shortages. That implies it is not paying enough to attract staff. Within the allocated budget, its wasting money by not paying enough.

During covid and then the vaccination campaign some NHS staff spoke out saying that if the NHS had simply been allocated the money spent on the epidemic, it would have chosen to spend it differently. What we did was not cost effective. Someone was quoted as saying 'this is an epidemic of old fat men', because that was who was in hospital with covid.

[graham]

Aug 14, 2023 19:01:37 GMT Danny said:

Aug 14, 2023 11:38:02 GMT graham said:

I don't agree. I actually voted Leave on the same basis that you were minded to until the last moment. It was a rational decision to seek to deny a political triumph to a Tory PM who had called the Referendum for reasons of internal Tory party politics and who had spent the previous 18 months scaremongering to get his way - successfully in terms of the 2015 election though unsuccessfully in terms of the London mayoral election in May 2016. He tried it again with the EU Referendum and I was happy to see Cameron get his comeuppance. Now had it been a vote on Johnson's terms or Remain , I would not have hesitated to vote Remain - but it wasn't! That we ended up with the worst possible Brexit Deal I blame on two groups  - the ERG Leavers who actually wanted it - and the Extreme Remainers - Anna Soubry et al , the LDs , SNP - who wanted a complete reversal of the vote. The latter's failure or inability to compromise condemned us to the Johnson Deal. They gambled - and lost very badly indeed, and share responsibility for the consequences.

What do you mean we ended up with the worst possible brexit deal? We ended up with the only possible brexit deal.

The rationale of brexit in the end was to sever ties between UK and EU. You cannot do that eg if you stayed in EFTA. Parliament spent was it three years trying to find an alternative brexit other than the one Johnson finally accepted. Looking for a loophole it couldn't find. The fudge was just too sticky to convince leavers that efta would have amounted to leaving. Although they were happy to imply it did before the vote. Leave tried every trick they could to confuse the issue and imply there was an outcome which was a good brexit. There just wasnt. The EU is accused of being a nascent super state, but it really isnt. Its a collection of thousands of ideas how better to conduct international trade, each of which stands on its own merits. They have created a package deal which cannot really be unpicked.

I agree with people that the Uk cannot now simply undo the damage it caused itself through Brexit. We will have to accept something like EFTA where we basically get the benefit of the market by following its rules, without being a member which makes those rules. This was the position leavers found objectionable. The UK as vassal state. But it is what they have brought upon themselves. They destroyed 50 years of succesive governments creating an alternative to the lost empire. Putin's proudest moment.

You appear to have missed the point here. Nobody was ever going to convince the extreme Leavers as represented by the ERG group, and they did indeed try every trick to confuse the issue.  However, they were only able to get away with that because they were joined in the Division Lobbies by the extreme Remainers - Anna Soubry and Change UK , the LDs and the SNP. The ERG MPs owe them a great debt of gratitude - though much pain and suffering could have been avoided had the Remainers shown more political nous!

[moby]

Aug 14, 2023 10:39:03 GMT colin said:

Aug 14, 2023 8:14:54 GMT crossbat11 said:

Is there a more socially critical and valuable role in our society than that performed by consultants and doctors? Their social capital is almost impossible to measure and quantify.

I will very likely need to rely on these people for the maintenance of the quality of my life. Maybe my actual life too one day. I already have relied on them in terms of my physical well-being a number of times. There's no financial value that can be placed on that.

Everyone has reason to thank a Doctor ? .Well of course. This is a mere banality. 

Their social capital impossible to quantify ?. No not really-they get paid more than nurses for example and we all agree on that.

There's no financial value that can be placed on all of this ? Armchair rhetoric.

Someone actually has to do so-as for all employees. In this case the Government of the day .

Any government has to place such a value :-

www.bmj.com/content/340/bmj.c1449

And do so in the context of Public Finances and Government Policy at the time .

To say that the value of Doctors to society cannot be quantified in a pay award is empty rhetoric . To say that a particular government at a particular time has incorrectly chosen value  x , and that it should be value y  , is constructive criticism and reasoned argument.

Current Govmt policy isn't working though. Other countries seem to value our Doctors higher than our own Govmt so clearly whatever financial value our Govmt places on them, it's not enough because between 30-40% say they are going abroad thereby causing ongoing chronic staffing shortages. The Govmt needs to sort that issue because waiting lists are the worst they have ever been. 
www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-how-many-uk-doctors-are-going-abroad-and-how-does-pay-compare

[c-a-r-f-r-e-w]

Activist teenagers make sociology a hot topic at A-level
Concern about a class divide as private schools continue to emphasise traditional subjects

“Sociology is outstripping a number of traditional subjects at A-level because of booming interest from teenagers in activism and social issues, experts say.

Social sciences are soaring in popularity and psychology is now the second most popular A-level and sociology the fifth — up from ninth five years ago — while business studies and politics have also seen big rises this year.

However, private schools are propping up some traditional and classical subjects and shunning newly popular courses, analysis by The Times shows. It adds to fears that music and modern languages are increasingly becoming the preserve of fee-charging schools.

More state school pupils were entered for sociology A-level in England last year than for physics, music, French and German combined.

…

Analysis by The Times of last year’s figures broken down by subject found private schools accounted for 89 per cent of candidates studying ancient Greek, 79 per cent in history of art, 74 per cent of Latin, around 23 per cent of French, German and music, 16 per cent of physics and 15.5 per cent of chemistry but just 8 per cent of psychology and 1.3 per cent of sociology.”

Times


…

[Danny]

Aug 14, 2023 15:54:22 GMT mercian said:

Also people are going on about Johnson's 'disastrous' deal but I remember that Barnier said at one point that he had been given instructions on the agreement to be made and couldn't change them.

So the EU set out what it wanted, Johnson (after May) what he wanted, and the Uk signed up to what the EU wanted. What does that tell you about the weakness of the UKs position after it had declared it would leave?

[moby]

Aug 14, 2023 18:10:19 GMT Rafwan said:

steve

Thanks, but this is getting a bit thin isn't it? He had no reported activities on Saturday, Sunday, Bank Holiday Monday, Tuesday and Weds. And this was over THREE weeks before Referendum Day! You side with the pursed-lips nay-sayers who call it a "holiday" if you like (and in fact we really have no idea what he was actually doing). I call it a very sensible break, maybe with a bit of walking in the Welsh countryside, to prepare for the full heat of the coming campaign. Please!

Every dog on the street knew Corbyn had no enthusiasm for the remain campaign. If he didn't go on holiday for as long as is alleged he may as well have gone because his interventions had little impact and everyone knew he was indifferent regarding the outcome.