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Post by EmCat on Jul 22, 2023 14:36:25 GMT
At the moment yes, but I'm imagining what would happen if other cities across the country followed suit. That would immediately make such vehicles nearly worthless. In fact there will no doubt be a sudden glut of them on the second hand market being sold by people in London to other parts of the country. This is correct. While those in Uxbridge, for example, have the option of buying a second hand compliant car (or selling a non-compliant one) elsewhere exists, it won't exist for those in areas that would be last to haze sch zones if they were rolled out nationwise. Let's put that into perspectie though. The DVLA website has assorted data tables. VEH11111 is interesting as it shows the number of vehicles left by year of first registration. There are a very large number of rows (UK summaries only go back a few years, whereas England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland have the full sets) For Petrol engined cars registered in England in 2005 (in other words, the last year that was probably not Euro 6 compliant): In 2005, there were approximately 16.2 million such vehicles registered By 2022 (the current latest figures), there are now only around 1.9 million petrol engined cars that are 2005 or older that were registered in England. The figure is likely to reduce by another 300k by the end of this year |
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Post by EmCat on Jul 22, 2023 14:41:34 GMT
The problem with deciding to divide up the population between "us" and "them" is that many who think they are part of the "us" group discover (too late), that they were always at risk of being grouped with "them" Just ask Pastor NiemôllerI think the issues mentioned there are of varying importance, but all of them can cause social unrest if not dealt with in a sensible & timely way . I think crime and unregulated migration are issues which can be reasonably placed in a political manifesto though neither of them need to be "divisive" issues at all if dealt with sensibly , sensitively and proportionately. Gender politics is an issue of minority rights and how those interact with the rights of the majority. Its more aggressive proponents opponents make it a divisive issue. Sunak should steer clear of this as a major manifesto issue. Fixed that for you. The fake "culture war" is precisely because some want to create division by hammering the rights of minorities, putting them in the "them" category. I wholly agree that Sunak should avoid culture war issues.However, until he rids himself of his own cabinet members who promote such division, he is a hostage to fortune |
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Mr Poppy
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Post by Mr Poppy on Jul 22, 2023 14:44:07 GMT
Big difference. One is a trade deal, the other involves becoming part of a supra-national entity. You wonder whether some of them understand the difference between the SM and the EU. Let alone the EZ ! ? Judging by James E post then it appears not. ukpollingreport2.proboards.com/post/93492/threadIt is very likely that if we did ever Rejoin.EU then it would be without vetoes (possibly why you mentioned EZ given we would be obligated to join the € and hence give up out own currency - which obviously is not what is required as a member of CPTPP or other trade organisations). Also the ££billions we'd have to send to Brussels, noting CPTPP is a 'Free' trade deal, etc. We've gone over this ssssoooo many times on UKPR and UKPR2 and it beggars believe that some people still don't understand the difference between a multilateral trade group (eg WTO, CPTPP) and what the EU now is. I don't wish to drag UKPR2 into the cesspit that UKPR became so I'll repost James E post onto the issue specific thread* should the people who never got it back on UKPR wish to go over it all again. * ukpollingreport2.proboards.com/thread/13/brexit-related-trade-deal-issues |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2023 14:44:25 GMT
Reality check if you live in England outside of Brighton then depending on the local circumstances at a general election the only two parties that are credible options to dislodge the Tories are Labour in about 80% of the constituencies and the Liberal Democrats in most of the rest, there are a few three way races where the choices aren't clear. That's just how fptp works and until we get rid of it we need to game the system. Improvement is better than enabling the Tories. Blair 'enabled the Tories' by adopting their policies - and Starmer is moving the same way. You’ve not mentioned this before. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2023 14:47:08 GMT
Very sad to read this in today's Times :- "Rishi Sunak is preparing to launch a more aggressive political campaign in an attempt to shift Labour’s lead in the polls with divisive policies on crime, migrant boats and transgender rights." The problem with deciding to divide up the population between "us" and "them" is that many who think they are part of the "us" group discover (too late), that they were always at risk of being grouped with "them" Just ask Pastor NiemôllerAnd right on cue ..... the Fascist led Italian Government has removed Lesbian co-parents from their childrens birth cerificates on the grounds they are are not biological parents.
It seems some advocates of biological essentialism are not as happy with this as you think they would be!
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Post by RAF on Jul 22, 2023 14:49:19 GMT
The problem with deciding to divide up the population between "us" and "them" is that many who think they are part of the "us" group discover (too late), that they were always at risk of being grouped with "them" Just ask Pastor NiemôllerI think the issues mentioned there are of varying importance, but all of them can cause social unrest if not dealt with in a sensible & timely way . I think crime and unregulated migration are issues which can be reasonably placed in a political manifesto though neither of them need to be "divisive" issues at all if dealt with sensibly , sensitively and proportionately. Gender politics is an issue of minority rights and how those interact with the rights of the majority. Its more aggressive proponents make it a divisive issue. Sunak should steer clear of this as a major manifesto issue. Agreed, but if the reason a party is prioritising crime and immigration is to appease far right elements (whether in politics, the press or society generally) then all that is accomplished is moving the Overton window further towards the far right. Indeed this is precisely what Steve Bannon's acolytes in Europe (including the UK) have been trying to do. Now if Rishi would be seeking to provide practical, consudered centre right solutions to these issues that would be a completely different story. With regard "gender issues", well not "gender issues" as a whole but pre-op transgender rights and recognition, the problem for political parties generally is that society as a whole iw split on the matter. How society became so polarised on the issue is an interesting question for which the extremes on both sides are equally responsible. As for minority rights generally, most minorities simply want equality (as in non-discrimination). Unfortunately, as we found with the statues dispute, large parts of society are deeply socially conservative and mainstream political parties especially the Conservatives and Labour) are willing to abandon their core objectives and those of Liberal democracy in order to pander to their prejudices rather than challenge them. Thereby also moving to Overton window further to the nationalist/nativist right. Blaming those advocating for non-discriminstion/non-racism etc for being top loud and scaring the horses is, I think, wrong. It is simply taking rhe country backwards. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2023 14:53:25 GMT
"Have a look at how Sweden has gone from smug standard bearer of the liberal nanny state to a hell scape of gun crime, gang violence and drug dealing. " Colin you do talk some absolute shite some time, across the board Sweden's crime rates are lower than the UK Both are low by international standards.Both of course share some similarities in the issues of countries with large urban populations. All figures are Pro rata Homicide rates are 20% lower in Sweden compared to the UK ( firearms murder because of easier access are higher) Assault rates are 50% lower Drugs use is 30% lower Violent crime is 20% lower Property crime is 10% lower And we imprison 13 times as many people as Sweden about 130% more pro rata. But if you will get your news from the daily mail and GBeebies then it's hardly surprising you're so ludicrously wrong. It’s the sheer arrogance and contempt dripping from this description that appals me: “the smug standard bearer of the liberal nanny state.” Very similar to someone being called a do-GOODer being meant as a bloody insult. |
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steve
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Post by steve on Jul 22, 2023 14:56:12 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2023 15:00:07 GMT
I think the issues mentioned there are of varying importance, but all of them can cause social unrest if not dealt with in a sensible & timely way . I think crime and unregulated migration are issues which can be reasonably placed in a political manifesto though neither of them need to be "divisive" issues at all if dealt with sensibly , sensitively and proportionately. Gender politics is an issue of minority rights and how those interact with the rights of the majority. Its more aggressive proponents opponents make it a divisive issue. Sunak should steer clear of this as a major manifesto issue. Fixed that for you. The fake "culture war" is precisely because some want to create division by hammering the rights of minorities, putting them in the "them" category. I wholly agree that Sunak should avoid culture war issues.However, until he rids himself of his own cabinet members who promote such division, he is a hostage to fortune I disagree. The sporting authorities have had to deal with aggressive pleading. Are you saying women's rights supporters have been aggressive ? |
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Mr Poppy
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Post by Mr Poppy on Jul 22, 2023 15:01:02 GMT
UK well and truly out from under the protective skirts of Central Bank Asset Purchases :- "The cost of insuring UK government debt has soared amid investors’ fears over rapidly rising interest rates piling pressure on the public finances. Insurance against a default, as reflected by credit default swaps, jumped by 106 per cent in the year to the end of May, a rise beaten only by debt-stricken Pakistan and Ecuador, according to data compiled by Bloomberg and Chaucer, an insurance agency. Credit default swaps are financial instruments designed to pay out in the event of a sovereign or corporate default. In the modern era Britain has never defaulted on its obligations, which is reflected in the low price it has paid historically. British credit default swap price rises eclipsed those of the United States, where the cost of insuring against default also rose in the wake of Washington’s debt ceiling stand-off this year. Average US credit default swap prices have risen by 85 per cent over the past year. Jonathan Bint, a senior analyst at Chaucer, said: “The risk of defaults is not just confined to developing countries. Major global economic players are increasingly facing the prospect of prolonged economic difficulty. “Although the likelihood of countries such as the UK or US actually defaulting is low, that’s not to say that there is no risk for creditors.”" Times Attached is the link for UK 5yr Credit Default Swap. It contains the history (click on 'all' to go back as far as the link started tracking it). They are measured in 'basis points' (bpts) with is 0.01%. www.worldgovernmentbonds.com/cds-historical-data/united-kingdom/5-years/To check other countries then use below 'map' and hover over the country of interest or scroll down to the table below. www.worldgovernmentbonds.com/sovereign-cds/I'd suggest caution when an article states a % change and uses specific (cherry picked) dates. The cost to insure UK debt is still very low. You'll note the 'high' 44bpts (ie 0.44%) was during the Truss era error and that at the end of May'23 it was about 20bpts (which is 106%ish above the 10bpts in May'22). |
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Post by EmCat on Jul 22, 2023 15:03:50 GMT
The problem with deciding to divide up the population between "us" and "them" is that many who think they are part of the "us" group discover (too late), that they were always at risk of being grouped with "them" Just ask Pastor NiemôllerAnd right on cue ..... the Fascist led Italian Government has removed Lesbian co-parents from their childrens birth cerificates on the grounds they are are not biological parents.
It seems some advocates of biological essentialism are not as happy with this as you think they would be!
I have seen a meme based on the "First they came for..." poem, which is along the lines of "I spoke out, even though I was not one of them, because I know how the poem ends" |
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Jul 22, 2023 15:06:43 GMT
Still trying to push the line Labour vote going down in Somerton and libdem vote going down in Selby is a tory good news story I can't believe anyone can be that thick...can they |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2023 15:11:33 GMT
Still trying to push the line Labour vote going down in Somerton and libdem vote going down in Selby is a tory good news story I can't believe anyone can be that thick...can they The really scary thing is when one discovers he used to be a school teacher before accidentally getting elected to Parliament |
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Post by EmCat on Jul 22, 2023 15:12:50 GMT
Fixed that for you. The fake "culture war" is precisely because some want to create division by hammering the rights of minorities, putting them in the "them" category. I wholly agree that Sunak should avoid culture war issues.However, until he rids himself of his own cabinet members who promote such division, he is a hostage to fortune I disagree. The sporting authorities have had to deal with aggressive pleading. Are you saying women's rights supporters have been aggressive ? "Women's rights supporters" who are invariably not actually in favour of women's rights, since they actively want to discriminate against women who are seen as having an unfair advantage ( Caster Semenya recently winning a case proving she was discriminated against). They are absolutely 100% aggressive. Yet more fake culture war manufactured by those with an agenda to roll back all progressive humanitarian advances made in the past 100 years. |
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Post by James E on Jul 22, 2023 15:13:19 GMT
Had a quick check in on novara media where the below the line comments seem to overwhelmingly say that despite a 21% swing from Tory to Labour, including the Ruislip result that this means Starmer should instantly resign to be replaced with, I needn't say but he's a serial loser so you can guess. It's bizarre this focus on doctrinal purity and what they see as perfection rather than improvement. It's an attitude which implies that if you can't get exactly what you want it's better to have nothing at all. 21% was the average loss to the Tory vote, across the 3 by elections - 7% in Uxbridge, 26% in Selby and nearly 30% in Somerton. But the Con to Lab swings averaged 'only' 15% in the two Con/Lab contests, 6.6% in Uxbridge, 23.7% in Selby. This is still in line with the current polling average: a 19% lead is a 15% swing from GE2019. And other than Uxbridge, the pattern continues of 'above average' swings in Con-held seats, and 'below average' in Lab held by-elections. Selby's 23.7% swing was nearly 9 points ahead of that implied by current polling, whereas in Labour-held West Lancashire 6 months ago, the swing was around 6 points below the polls at the time. |
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steve
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Post by steve on Jul 22, 2023 15:16:00 GMT
So colin wants to compare Sweden with Sweden daft but let's give it a bash shall we but with England and Wales
England and Wales homicide rate 2022 under the Tory regime 12 per million population
England and Wales homicide rate 2014 with liberal democrats in office 9 per million population
1995 with the Tories in office 13 per million
2010 under Gordon Brown 11 per million
2002 under Tony Blair 17 per million
No Graham this isn't proof that Blair was murdering people it's that Harold Shipman was assigned 172 of the total.
Sweden's murder rate incidentally was around 13 per million in 1990 in 2022 it was 11.
The point Colin is that while crime rates do go up and down the most serious elements are remarkably stable and lower now than they were decades ago.
The UK rate took a significant down turn following tighter gun legislation in the 1980's and 90's and it's stayed low.
Sweden's is also very low by international standards and that hasn't changed either.
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Mr Poppy
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Post by Mr Poppy on Jul 22, 2023 15:19:11 GMT
Very sad to read this in today's Times :- "Rishi Sunak is preparing to launch a more aggressive political campaign in an attempt to shift Labour’s lead in the polls with divisive policies on crime, migrant boats and transgender rights." The Leading Article in the same paper observes that Europe is increasingly subject to "disillusion with big government, enforced social inclusivity, new environmental restrictions and immigration have awakened atavistic fears and boosted the right. Throughout Europe, policies and ideologies seen as toxic are becoming ever more mainstream, shaping the agendas of traditional parties and steadily gaining electoral appeal." Sweden/Spain/Hungary/Poland/Finland/Greece/Italy/Germany/France/Netherlands... The Times Leader concludes with :- "Ironically, as mainstream parties seek to embrace policies of the far right, hoping to rob them of supporters, they make those parties more respectable. Politics must now wrestle with this phenomenon that is changing the face of Europe." The various press seemed very keen to use the by-election results to push different stories on the 'by-election' fallout. I found the FT lead 'very sad' but not surprising given the Torygraph tends to push the 'Frost' agenda. Daily Wail and others' front pages are hardly a surprise www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-66275583Denmark has adopted possibly the hardest approach to 'irregular' immigration (ie a 'zero asylum' policy) and that has kept a Centre-Left govt in Denmark (removing the threat of the Far-Right). If the Spanish election goes the way polling suggests and Germany polling doesn't change before their next election then perhaps Denmark is the example that Starmer would be wise to follow? With so many other European countries (and the EC-EU) adopting a much stricter line on immigration then it might* be possible that the Council of Europe 'evolves' the ECHR either before/after ECtHR cases to see if '3rd country' schemes should be 'legal'?
Denmark seeks EU collaboration in sending asylum seekers outside blocwww.infomigrants.net/en/post/46374/denmark-seeks-eu-collaboration-in-sending-asylum-seekers-outside-bloc#* Not a prediction but with the Illegal Immigration Bill is now an Act, having received RA on 20Jul. Braverman now has legal responsibilities from that Act but is still waiting on the Supreme Court. It is unclear exactly what will happen and when but it is hard to see how CON HMG can kick the can past GE'24. I dunno how long ECtHR would take but I'm 100% certain someone will take UK to the ECtHR as soon as the first flight to Rwanda takes off. bills.parliament.uk/bills/3429/stages |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2023 15:19:31 GMT
So colin wants to compare Sweden with Sweden daft but let's give it a bash shall we but with England and Wales England and Wales homicide rate 2022 under the Tory regime 12 per million population England and Wales homicide rate 2014 with liberal democrats in office 9 per million population 1995 with the Tories in office 13 per million 2010 under Gordon Brown 11 per million 2002 under Tony Blair 17 per million No Graham this isn't proof that Blair was murdering people it's that Harold Shipman was assigned 172 of the total. Sweden's murder rate incidentally was around 13 per million in 1990 in 2022 it was 11. The point Colin is that while crime rates do go up and down the most serious elements are remarkably stable and lower now than they were decades ago. The UK rate took a significant down turn following tighter gun legislation in the 1980's and 90's and it's stayed low. Sweden's is also very low by international standards and that hasn't changed either. Swedish voters will be pleased. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2023 15:22:07 GMT
Fixed that for you. The fake "culture war" is precisely because some want to create division by hammering the rights of minorities, putting them in the "them" category. I wholly agree that Sunak should avoid culture war issues.However, until he rids himself of his own cabinet members who promote such division, he is a hostage to fortune I disagree. The sporting authorities have had to deal with aggressive pleading. Are you saying women's rights supporters have been aggressive ? Good question colin ... would you consider Magdalen Berns aggressive ?
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steve
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Post by steve on Jul 22, 2023 15:25:39 GMT
Deranged spray tanned traitor and his co conspirators about to face more criminal charges in Georgia. youtu.be/N_bneyx_7Mw |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2023 15:33:47 GMT
@" Now if Rishi would be seeking to provide practical, consudered centre right solutions to these issues that would be a completely different story. " I agree @"r. How society became so polarised on the issue is an interesting question for which the extremes on both sides are equally responsible" I agree @" for minority rights generally, most minorities simply want equality (as in non-discrimination). " I agree. Though the two things are not the same and may be incompatable. @" Unfortunately, as we found with the statues dispute, large parts of society are deeply socially conservative and mainstream political parties especially the Conservatives and Labour) are willing to abandon their core objectives and those of Liberal democracy in order to pander to their prejudices rather than challenge them. Thereby also moving to Overton window further to the nationalist/nativist right. Blaming those advocating for non-discriminstion/non-racism etc for being top loud and scaring the horses is, I think, wrong. It is simply taking rhe country backwards. " Now you are indulging in prejudice. Some people don't think every statue of historic figures with unacceptable habits should be demolished. Who advocates for racism.? Wishing to control immigration is not racist. |
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pjw1961
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Post by pjw1961 on Jul 22, 2023 15:35:54 GMT
But if you will get your news from the daily mail and GBeebies then it's hardly surprising you're so ludicrously wrong. So you think UK's crime stats are a reasonable benchmark for a progressive liberal society ! I was comparing Sweden now with Sweden as was So just to summarise - Sweden had decades of rule by the Social Democrats and was a paradise and has now moved to the right and become a hellhole. Sounds about right. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2023 15:36:51 GMT
I disagree. The sporting authorities have had to deal with aggressive pleading. Are you saying women's rights supporters have been aggressive ? Good question colin ... would you consider Magdalen Berns aggressive ?
That is awful.! Are you making a case that it is representative of women's rights advocates in UK ? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2023 15:42:01 GMT
So you think UK's crime stats are a reasonable benchmark for a progressive liberal society ! I was comparing Sweden now with Sweden as was So just to summarise - Sweden had decades of rule by the Social Democrats and was a paradise and has now moved to the right and become a hellhole. Sounds about right. Yep. Magdalena Andersson explained why Soc. Dems allowed it to happen |
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Mr Poppy
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Post by Mr Poppy on Jul 22, 2023 15:42:22 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2023 15:45:39 GMT
Forgot to make that point ! It's like wading through treacle isn't it ? |
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pjw1961
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Post by pjw1961 on Jul 22, 2023 15:50:55 GMT
Had a quick check in on novara media where the below the line comments seem to overwhelmingly say that despite a 21% swing from Tory to Labour, including the Ruislip result that this means Starmer should instantly resign to be replaced with, I needn't say but he's a serial loser so you can guess. It's bizarre this focus on doctrinal purity and what they see as perfection rather than improvement. It's an attitude which implies that if you can't get exactly what you want it's better to have nothing at all. 21% was the average loss to the Tory vote, across the 3 by elections - 7% in Uxbridge, 26% in Selby and nearly 30% in Somerton. But the Con to Lab swings averaged 'only' 15% in the two Con/Lab contests, 6.6% in Uxbridge, 23.7% in Selby. This is still in line with the current polling average: a 19% lead is a 15% swing from GE2019. And other than Uxbridge, the pattern continues of 'above average' swings in Con-held seats, and 'below average' in Lab held by-elections. Selby's 23.7% swing was nearly 9 points ahead of that implied by current polling, whereas in Labour-held West Lancashire 6 months ago, the swing was around 6 points below the polls at the time. Absolutely no insult intended to you JamesE. but this averaging of results from three very different by-elections in different parts of the country, fought on different issues with different parties in contention is completely meaningless. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2023 15:51:49 GMT
Good question colin ... would you consider Magdalen Berns aggressive ?
That is awful.! Are you making a case that it is representative of women's rights advocates in UK ? J K Rowling, the doyen of "gender critical" feminism in the UK was a fan
" Months later, I compounded my accidental ‘like’ crime by following Magdalen Berns on Twitter. Magdalen was an immensely brave young feminist and lesbian who was dying of an aggressive brain tumour. "
I'll leave to make your own judgement.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2023 15:57:58 GMT
That is awful.! Are you making a case that it is representative of women's rights advocates in UK ? J K Rowling, the doyen of "gender critical" feminism in the UK was a fan
" Months later, I compounded my accidental ‘like’ crime by following Magdalen Berns on Twitter. Magdalen was an immensely brave young feminist and lesbian who was dying of an aggressive brain tumour. "
I'll leave to make your own judgement.
You didn't answer my question. I would have to read up on Rowlings support for Berne. _ a person I haven't heard of before. |
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steve
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Post by steve on Jul 22, 2023 16:01:10 GMT
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