graham
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Post by graham on Aug 10, 2023 19:51:20 GMT
In 2017 a lot of 2015 Labour voters misdirected themselves believing that their preferred party was no longer in contention. They were caught out and surprised by the late Labour surge - but had they not been swung by Ruth Davidson's clear Tory momentum and instead stayed with Labour , the party could reasonably have won at least 10 seats that year. Effectively by switching to the Tories they enabled the SNP to hold on to several seats which otherwise would have gone Labour. So much for tactical voting! In psephological terms , I think it is a reasonably sound analysis. |
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Post by mercian on Aug 10, 2023 19:55:09 GMT
Had this as a quiz question, who was the longest-lived British head of state until Elizabeth the second? Old King Cole? EDIT: Dammit! Too late again. |
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
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Post by pjw1961 on Aug 10, 2023 19:58:21 GMT
* Has anyone on UKPR2 actually found a post of yours that was actually 'racist'? Not that they've said. However their definitions of the word may differ from mine. I won't go into detail. I'd appreciate it if we let this dog lie. There will never be agreement and it makes Mark 's life difficult. They can think what they like, but of course they will be wrong. As I've said, there is no point in trawling your old posts, but the following is interesting to note. As I said in my local elections preview, the Conservative candidate in Havering is currently suspended from the Party for Islamophobic posting on Meta (i.e. Facebook). One of the things the Conservatives - not normally regarded as a 'woke liberal' organisation - regarded as unacceptable was using the phrase "indigenous" as a descriptor of white English people, which is something I seem to recollect you have done in the past. Given some of the rest of his output was even more extreme it is obviously not possible to say the exact reason for his suspension. For anyone who wants to check the details: www.romfordrecorder.co.uk/news/23679645.conservatives-suspend-ed-green-upminster-by-election/ |
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Post by mercian on Aug 10, 2023 20:06:54 GMT
Here's a novel thought. Radical even. Why don't we approach the issue of those seeking asylum in our country from a humanitarian starting point? Default to compassion and philanthropy first before seeing it as a terrible problem. View it instead as a potential cultural and economic benefit to this country and feel some sort of pride that we live in a country and society that people fleeing danger see as safe refuge. They often risk their lives to get here. ... Default to compassion and understanding and work from there. You always end up in a better place if you do. Charity doesn't actually begin at home. Not in the good society, anyway. That's all very well and warm and fuzzy but we already have problems with a housing shortage, creaking infrastructure such as sewage works etc etc. Now no doubt that will all be blamed on the Tory government, but we are where we are. It will take years to fix these things (plus a hell of a lot of cash) and all the time the problems are getting worse because many thousands of immigrants are coming every year. How many can we absorb reasonably painlessly? 100,000 a year? 1,000,000? 10,000,000? There has to be some sort of control, particularly on illegal economic migrants. |
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Post by RAF on Aug 10, 2023 20:11:24 GMT
I don't think there is a lot of comfort for the tories here, bearing in mind Labour’s poll lead It does at least show that the Tory coalition has been fractured by populist drift. Labour too, but as Labour has such a huge lead it probably doesn't matter for them. |
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Post by mercian on Aug 10, 2023 20:16:14 GMT
. They were thwarted by the common sense of the British people. Brexit only happened because enough people believed it would not cost them money. Hence the big red bus promising savings. That was a flat lie. Part of why people accepted the lie was because affable Johnson was heading the campaign, and the outsider Nigel Farage. There was a significant element of 'if the mainstram politicians are saying something it must be a lie'. So it was a classic example fo the boy who cried wolf, that when they told the truth no one believed them. Well I can't see how it's cost me any money. It might have had some small effect on current inflation caused by the Ukraine war but most countries have seen inflation. It's already coming down anyway. |
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pjw1961
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Post by pjw1961 on Aug 10, 2023 20:18:22 GMT
Neither of them was a head of state of Britain, which was the specific 'polity' mentioned.
Thanks for that, genuinely very interesting and had escaped my notice despite being an era in which I have an interest. However, I must say that having read the wikipedia article on it, it sounds much less like any kind of voluntary or even semi-voluntary union and much more like a straightforward imposition by military victory and conquest. Doesn't sound like it would have enjoyed much support from any of the Scottish political factions of the day, albeit for different reasons. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotland_under_the_Commonwealth |
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oldnat
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Post by oldnat on Aug 10, 2023 20:31:33 GMT
The Ordinance for uniting Scotland into one Commonwealth with England was issued by the Lord Protector Oliver Cromwell on 12/24 Apr 1654
Thanks for that, genuinely very interesting and had escaped my notice despite being an era in which I have an interest. However, I must say that having read the wikipedia article on it, it sounds much less like any kind of voluntary or even semi-voluntary union and much more like a straightforward imposition by military victory and conquest. Doesn't sound like it would have enjoyed much support from any of the Scottish political factions of the day, albeit for different reasons. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotland_under_the_Commonwealth
EDIT : Of course, no political union can be described as "voluntary" if the supposed members are not allowed to leave. |
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Post by mercian on Aug 10, 2023 20:31:45 GMT
Following a rapprochement with my old chum the Battmeister I am proud to announce our new joint venture: ******************CANAL CRUISES WITH CROFTY  AND CROSSBAT  ****************** You will share a luxury, individual cabin with some other old people and the highlight of the trip will be an overnight stay in glamorous DROITWICH with mercian conducting a tour of the area and crossbat11 helping with translation. Deposits being accepted now, cash only, no Scottish notes please. How much you paying? |
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Aug 10, 2023 20:35:14 GMT
Neither of them was a head of state of Britain, which was the specific 'polity' mentioned. First thanks to oldnat for his contribution As to the question it was 'who was the longest-lived British head of state until Elizabeth the second?' So I could argue Cromwell was British in geographical terms and also a head of state But either way I just found the question and given answer interesting |
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Post by mercian on Aug 10, 2023 20:35:47 GMT
Paul Do you do a lot of cruising down towpaths? No, never been near one, Batty is the expert in that regard. I’ve just been brought “on board” to add a bit of class, do the cabaret and help translate Batty’s monologues for the paying customers. (Don’t always understand him myself so have to make a lot of it up.) Are you interested? We do excellent deals if you want to also freelance as a security officer when we get into Droitwich. You'll need security. Droitwich is a nest of drug-addled gangsters. A favourite tactic is mugging OAPs and shoving them in the cut. |
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Post by mercian on Aug 10, 2023 20:37:14 GMT
Any chance of organising the overnight stay in a canal tunnel where there is no wi-fi or mobile signal, so the rest of us can get a respite from certain people's postings? Unfortunately I understand the after dinner entertainment is a debate about COVID strategy led by Danny and Alec, followed by a late night game of Hunt the Racist :-( Nice one 🤣 |
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Post by mandolinist on Aug 10, 2023 20:41:41 GMT
Anent the earlier discussion about the Greens winning Bristol West. A fortnight today there is a council by-election in Bishopston and Ashley Down ward, historically a Labour seat within Bristol West, it might give us all a few clues. I will keep my ear to the ground.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2023 20:43:26 GMT
Crofty's typically witty "Midnight with Mercian" description of Mercy Man's regular nocturnal ramblings got me thinking of other alliterative UKPR posting patterns. "Twilight with Trevor" "After Dark with Dave" "Isa for Insomniacs" "A soiree with Steve' "Canoodling with Colin" "Joking with Jen" "Jousting with jib" There are probably many others. Cobblers from crossbat? Oi!!!! Your shift hasn’t begun yet - go back to 🛌 bed. |
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pjw1961
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Post by pjw1961 on Aug 10, 2023 20:44:31 GMT
Thanks for that, genuinely very interesting and had escaped my notice despite being an era in which I have an interest. However, I must say that having read the wikipedia article on it, it sounds much less like any kind of voluntary or even semi-voluntary union and much more like a straightforward imposition by military victory and conquest. Doesn't sound like it would have enjoyed much support from any of the Scottish political factions of the day, albeit for different reasons. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotland_under_the_Commonwealth
EDIT : Of course, no political union can be described as "voluntary" if the supposed members are not allowed to leave.I suppose it could be voluntary at the beginning and less so later. The initial decision of the former American colonies to form the United States of America seems to have been voluntary but the southern states subsequently discovered their attempt to leave was regarded as rebellion. The 1654 one doesn't sound voluntary in any sense! |
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Post by mercian on Aug 10, 2023 20:48:53 GMT
Neither of them was a head of state of Britain, which was the specific 'polity' mentioned. I took it to mean any head of state in Britain, so could have included Kings of Scotland for instance. |
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pjw1961
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Post by pjw1961 on Aug 10, 2023 20:48:58 GMT
Neither of them was a head of state of Britain, which was the specific 'polity' mentioned. First thanks to oldnat for his contribution As to the question it was 'who was the longest-lived British head of state until Elizabeth the second?' So I could argue Cromwell was British in geographical terms and also a head of state But either way I just found the question and given answer interesting Now that opens a whole new can of worms. What counts as a "state" and what is a "head of state" - discuss. On second thoughts please don't! |
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Aug 10, 2023 20:50:55 GMT
Crofty's typically witty "Midnight with Mercian" description of Mercy Man's regular nocturnal ramblings got me thinking of other alliterative UKPR posting patterns. "Twilight with Trevor" "After Dark with Dave" "Isa for Insomniacs" "A soiree with Steve' "Canoodling with Colin" "Joking with Jen" "Jousting with jib" There are probably many others. Clearly you feel I have something of the night about me. In fairness, I’ve never seen Michael Howard and me in the same room together <shudders at the thought> so you might be right. |
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Post by mercian on Aug 10, 2023 20:56:16 GMT
Not that they've said. However their definitions of the word may differ from mine. I won't go into detail. I'd appreciate it if we let this dog lie. There will never be agreement and it makes Mark 's life difficult. They can think what they like, but of course they will be wrong. As I've said, there is no point in trawling your old posts, but the following is interesting to note. As I said in my local elections preview, the Conservative candidate in Havering is currently suspended from the Party for Islamophobic posting on Meta (i.e. Facebook). One of the things the Conservatives - not normally regarded as a 'woke liberal' organisation - regarded as unacceptable was using the phrase "indigenous" as a descriptor of white English people, which is something I seem to recollect you have done in the past. Given some of the rest of his output was even more extreme it is obviously not possible to say the exact reason for his suspension. For anyone who wants to check the details: www.romfordrecorder.co.uk/news/23679645.conservatives-suspend-ed-green-upminster-by-election/ Ok. I'll add 'indigenous' to my list of proscribed words. And apologies to anyone who took umbrage (apart from oldnat). |
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Post by James E on Aug 10, 2023 20:56:40 GMT
Anent the earlier discussion about the Greens winning Bristol West. A fortnight today there is a council by-election in Bishopston and Ashley Down ward, historically a Labour seat within Bristol West, it might give us all a few clues. I will keep my ear to the ground. Under the new boundaries, most wards in Bristol West are becoming part of the Bristol Central constituency, which Electoral Calculus currently predicts as a Green gain, by around a 7% majority. Bishopston and Ashley Down ward is predicted by EC to vote Green, but will in fact move to the redrawn Bristol North West constituency (which stays Labour despite this). www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/calcwork23.py?seat=Bristol+North+West |
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oldnat
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Post by oldnat on Aug 10, 2023 20:56:40 GMT
Indeed. It was imposition after a successful invasion by a foreign country - just as with Wales some centuries earlier, or Russia's creation of the USSR etc etc. In fact, that's how most states came to exist!
EDIT : Of course, no political union can be described as "voluntary" if the supposed members are not allowed to leave. The initial decision of the former American colonies to form the United States of America seems to have been voluntary but the southern states subsequently discovered their attempt to leave was regarded as rebellion. The 1654 one doesn't sound voluntary in any sense! |
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Post by mercian on Aug 10, 2023 21:02:46 GMT
Oi!!!! Your shift hasn’t begun yet - go back to 🛌 bed. 🤣 I notice you haven't answered the question about payment for my guided tour services. The last barge trip I went on (maybe 50 years ago) involved strippers and a load of beer. High Culture. The operators believed that the canal counted as international waters because it went into the Black Country from Birmingham and so wasn't subject to licencing laws. |
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pjw1961
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Post by pjw1961 on Aug 10, 2023 21:02:58 GMT
Neither of them was a head of state of Britain, which was the specific 'polity' mentioned. I took it to mean any head of state in Britain, so could have included Kings of Scotland for instance. This reminds me of an American children's encyclopedia I own that offers up a list of 12 "great Americans" that includes Kamehameha I (1758?-1819) the man who united the Hawaiian islands into a single kingdom, long before the USA took over that place. It has always struck me as bizarre. In what sense was he an American? The others, in case anyone wonders, are (in alphabetical order) George Washington Carver, Samuel Clemens (aka Mark Twain), Thomas Edison, Benjamin Franklin, Sam Houston, Abraham Lincoln, Douglas MacArthur, Sequoyah (aka George Gist), Anna Eleanor Rooseveldt, Booker T Washington and George Washington. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2023 21:03:20 GMT
“Indigenous” describes any group of people native to a specific region. In other words, it refers to people who lived there before colonists or settlers arrived, defined new borders, and began to occupy the land.” Which suggests (perhaps?) that few countries have such populations now - though Australia and America are two obvious ones that do. As oldnat has pointed out previously, those of us in the United (?) King(?)dom have been long diluted by new arrival/conquerors etc to the extent that I haven’t a clue who would be counted as indigenous. Definitely not ole mercian though. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2023 21:06:06 GMT
Oi!!!! Your shift hasn’t begun yet - go back to 🛌 bed. 🤣 I notice you haven't answered the question about payment for my guided tour services. The last barge trip I went on (maybe 50 years ago) involved strippers and a load of beer. High Culture. The operators believed that the canal counted as international waters because it went into the Black Country from Birmingham and so wasn't subject to licencing laws. Oh, there is no intention to employ you Pete, that was just a ploy to attract paying customers who might (understandably) be fearful of an evening in Droitwich without an armed escort. Oddly, we have no customers at all, paying or otherwise. |
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Post by mercian on Aug 10, 2023 21:10:50 GMT
I took it to mean any head of state in Britain, so could have included Kings of Scotland for instance. This reminds me of an American children's encyclopedia I own that offers up a list of 12 "great Americans" that includes Kamehameha I (1758?-1819) the man who united the Hawaiian islands into a single kingdom, long before the USA took over that place. It has always struck me as bizarre. In what sense is he an American? The others, in case anyone wonders, are (in alphabetical order) George Washington Carver, Samuel Clemens (aka Mark Twain), Thomas Edison, Benjamin Franklin, Sam Houston, Abraham Lincoln, Douglas MacArthur, Sequoyah (aka George Gist), Anna Eleanor Rooseveldt, Booker T Washington and George Washington. Bizarre indeed. Wasn't Sam Houston a Texan when it was under Mexican control and after it became independent? I haven't looked it up and I'm sure he must have become American later after Texas became a state. Perhaps they mean 'America' in the sense of 'the Americas' in which case Simon Bolivar might be a candidate, but even then a Hawaiian seems an odd choice. I suppose they were trying to include most races that make up the modern USA (apart from Hispanics). |
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
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Post by pjw1961 on Aug 10, 2023 21:15:42 GMT
Anent the earlier discussion about the Greens winning Bristol West. A fortnight today there is a council by-election in Bishopston and Ashley Down ward, historically a Labour seat within Bristol West, it might give us all a few clues. I will keep my ear to the ground. Under the new boundaries, most wards in Bristol West are becoming part of the Bristol Central constituency, which Electoral Calculus currently predicts as a Green gain, by around a 7% majority. Bishopston and Ashley Down ward is predicted by EC to vote Green, but will in fact move to the redrawn Bristol North West constituency (which stays Labour despite this). www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/calcwork23.py?seat=Bristol+North+WestThe tactical situation in a particular constituency may well change peoples voting intention. Even if Green members regard Labour as unacceptably right wing, most Green voters will not be so extreme in their views and may well lend their votes to Labour in a seat with a larger Conservative vote to keep the Tory out. In places where the Conservatives are not in contention at all, it is of course a 'free hit'. |
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Post by eor on Aug 10, 2023 21:17:50 GMT
Crofty's typically witty "Midnight with Mercian" description of Mercy Man's regular nocturnal ramblings got me thinking of other alliterative UKPR posting patterns. "Twilight with Trevor" "After Dark with Dave" "Isa for Insomniacs" "A soiree with Steve' "Canoodling with Colin" "Joking with Jen" "Jousting with jib" There are probably many others. Clearly you feel I have something of the night about me. In fairness, I’ve never seen Michael Howard and me in the same room together <shudders at the thought> so you might be right. Could be quite the philosophical compliment really, if crossbat11 was harking back to the old C4 show. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/After_Dark_(TV_programme) |
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oldnat
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Post by oldnat on Aug 10, 2023 21:19:49 GMT
I took it to mean any head of state in Britain, so could have included Kings of Scotland for instance. This reminds me of an American children's encyclopedia I own that offers up a list of 12 "great Americans" that includes Kamehameha I (1758?-1819) the man who united the Hawaiian islands into a single kingdom, long before the USA took over that place. It has always struck me as bizarre. In what sense is he an American? The others, in case anyone wonders, are (in alphabetical order) George Washington Carver, Samuel Clemens (aka Mark Twain), Thomas Edison, Benjamin Franklin, Sam Houston, Abraham Lincoln, Douglas MacArthur, Sequoyah (aka George Gist), Anna Eleanor Rooseveldt, Booker T Washington and George Washington. |
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
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Post by pjw1961 on Aug 10, 2023 21:23:06 GMT
This reminds me of an American children's encyclopedia I own that offers up a list of 12 "great Americans" that includes Kamehameha I (1758?-1819) the man who united the Hawaiian islands into a single kingdom, long before the USA took over that place. It has always struck me as bizarre. In what sense is he an American? The others, in case anyone wonders, are (in alphabetical order) George Washington Carver, Samuel Clemens (aka Mark Twain), Thomas Edison, Benjamin Franklin, Sam Houston, Abraham Lincoln, Douglas MacArthur, Sequoyah (aka George Gist), Anna Eleanor Rooseveldt, Booker T Washington and George Washington. Bizarre indeed. Wasn't Sam Houston a Texan when it was under Mexican control and after it became independent? I haven't looked it up and I'm sure he must have become American later after Texas became a state. Perhaps they mean 'America' in the sense of 'the Americas' in which case Simon Bolivar might be a candidate, but even then a Hawaiian seems an odd choice. I suppose they were trying to include most races that make up the modern USA (apart from Hispanics). It was definitely based on the (current) territory of the USA, rather than the wider Americas. And I agree the list is distinctly odd, at least to a non-American. |
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AND CROSSBAT 
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