steve
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Post by steve on Aug 10, 2023 9:13:02 GMT
colinAs I pointed out the vast majority of displaced people aren't seeking homes in Europe, they just want to go home in safety.
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Post by athena on Aug 10, 2023 9:28:50 GMT
I've said this before, but I think it bears repeating.
Amidst current concern about the treatment of asylum seekers we should spare more thought for all the potential refugees who are trapped, because they can't make the journey to safety. We have an asylum policy that is sexist and ageist by design: 76% of small boat arrivals are men aged 18-39 years (per Oxford University's Migration Observatory). Women and girls face additional risks (rape, being forced to prostitute themselves to secure passage) if they attempt to travel via irregular routes. We should be taking most of our refugees directly from their country of origin - or as close as possible. A sensible, rapid family reunion policy would help a bit, but nowhere near enough. In any case women and girls, younger children and older people shouldn't be forced to depend on family members to obtain asylum.
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Post by graham on Aug 10, 2023 9:39:26 GMT
I would expect a Westminster GE campaign to add to the momentum already apparent in Scotland-wide polling. I also recall that back in 2017 Labour's campaign recovery was delayed somewhat relative to England & Wales. My gut feeling is that Scotland will want to ' join in the party' in terms of ousting the Tories - with Labour likely to be seen as the most obvious instrument available to achieve that particularly in the context of recent SNP troubles.
Incidentally, it would be more accurate to say that voters in England have now decided to "join the party" that we have been having since the 1960s in rejecting Conservative governments. They have been very slow to show up at the ceilidh, and even now are reluctant to join in, unless the alternative government (that they insist on applying across rUK) is both centralist and centre right.
That Unionist voters tend to tactically vote for the dominant one of their parties is undoubtedly true. Every Scottish constituency is essentially a contest between the SNP and the appropriate Unionist party there. The only places where there is a contest between the Unionist parties is in places like Ayr, where Con, & Lab compete for 2nd place. In most constituencies Unionist voters already cast their votes tactically for the strongest of their parties, while (despite its problems - some self-inflicted), the SNP remains the dominant pro-indy party (though that doesn't always fill me with enthusiasm!).
The intriguing question, when it comes to a Westminster GE, is whether sufficient of those who move their votes between SNP and Lab think their interests will be best served by sending a Lab or an SNP MP to Westminster. Do they want their MP to vote for decisions made in Downing St that don't suit Scotland, or to oppose them? With the number of marginal constituencies in Scotland, that choice will be made by a relatively small number of individuals.
It is already clear what the narratives will be in the Westminster GE in Scotland. Since the opposition to Con is so massive, neither SNP nor Lab can gain any more from that. Labour will campaign in Westminster seats on Holyrood issues, maximising that advantage. SNP will campaign on the basis that a Starmer led Labour government won't be much different from the Tory ones at Westminster that we have opposed for the last 60+ years. Which (if either) narrative has the greatest cut through will determine Scots representation in the HoC that Starmer will be the PM in.My gut feelings owe a great deal to what did happen in the later stages of the 2017 election when signs of Labour momentum across GB persuaded significant numbers of 2015 SNP voters to switch back to Labour.It occurred later in Scotland than the rest of GB - and a further week of campaigning would probably have seen Labour emerge there with 10 - 12 seats. Tactical voting in Scotland has not been confined to the Unionist parties. The SNP benefitted from Tory tactical votes at the Hamilton by election in 1967 and again at the 1973 Govan by election. There was also evidence at both 1974 elections of Tory voters switching to SNP to defeat Labour.
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Aug 10, 2023 9:43:40 GMT
people volunteer, or even pay, to be chained up and whipped for pleasure. Does that mean its acceptable for refugees? |
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Post by graham on Aug 10, 2023 9:52:35 GMT
Not at all - I am actually fond of the Scots and see them as compatriots rather than foreigners. Psephologically ,however, I suspect that the prospect of Labour being likely to oust the Tories nationally across GB will swing a fair proprtion of recent SNP supporters behind Labour. I also strongly suspect that there has been a significant decline in the salience of Independence as an issue and that the new First Minister will not prove impressive during a GE campaign. I am glad that you are fond of the Scots although, in general, our social values are totally at odds with yours. Why do you think the constitutional question is no longer an issue in Scotland? Surely recent polling shows otherwise? What are your specific criticisms of the new First Minister? Have you ever been to Scotland? Do you have any current contact with Scotland? Or is your opinion based on "reports" from the English press? I have made several visits to Scotland and look forward to more in the future.
I am not suggesting that Independence - or the constitutional issue - has ceased to be important in Scotland, but rather it no longer has the salience it enjoyed a few years ago. People might express themselves as being Yes voters if asked the question but are now more likely to see it as being overridden by other matters seen to be more important. The same applies to Brexit as an issue across the UK.
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Aug 10, 2023 9:53:18 GMT
..... And they are nothing but an asset to the country and a credit to themselves. The rhetoric and the using real people's tragedies to wind people up and look for votes to stay in power is shameful, shameful stuff. Ah but there is the issue in a nutshell. Brexit happened despite con believing it was harmful to the Uk so as to get them into power as governmnet. In doing so they achieved personal advancement, what most would regard as decent salaries, and in future likely more bonuses, we might consider calling them bribes, from those who benefitted from their policies while they were in office. If voctomising some refugees keeps them in power then its obviously well worthwhile for them. The system will reward them personally for doing it. |
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Aug 10, 2023 9:57:01 GMT
I'm very happy to blame CON HMG for the shortage of social housing but FFS the Bibby Stockholm is not a prison, It really is. These people are for the most part legally entitled to be granted refugee status under the law in place when they arrived in the UK. Any who arent should have deported ages ago. Instead of doing this government has detained them in concentration camps. It doesnt really matter whether the conditions of their detainment are good or bad, they have still been deprived of their legal rights. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2023 10:02:35 GMT
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Aug 10, 2023 10:05:35 GMT
Although could also say it's SNATS 39%, ABSNP 60% and given the minimal difference between the main Unionist parties on policy then I would expect even more tactical voting than usual in Scotland in GE'24 (eg even CON might well 'lend their vote' to LAB to ensure a Tory/RoC candidate wins against the SNP) I suspect the SNP VI is much more dubious than the con VI in England. In England its a choice between incumbent and a challenger with pretty similar policies. In Scotland its between SNP who are seeking independence as a USP, but also are a party which does not stand in England and has no divided loyalty when iy is a question of the greater good of Scotland as compared to England. So in England a con voter who is however unhappy about how con have done does have a choice of similar parties. But in Scotland there is no credible indepnedence alternative, and no credible scotland first alternative. The chances of people returning to vote SNP on the actual day must therefore be greater in Scotland than for con in England.
As to diehard con lending their support to lab to keep out SNP, well maybe if they are unionists, but if they see any chance that an extra lab MP might give lab the majority in the next election, then thats a tall order. Better for con in such a situation to have an extra SNP MP and make life harder for lab.
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Post by leftieliberal on Aug 10, 2023 10:07:03 GMT
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steve
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Post by steve on Aug 10, 2023 10:13:20 GMT
colin You need to look for internally displaced people not just asylum seekers Internally displaced persons (often referred to as IDPs) have been forced to flee their homes because of war, violence or persecution, but have not crossed an international border. At the end of 2022, over 62.5 million people around the world were internally displaced, including 6.8 million in Syria and 5.4 million in Ukraine. They make up the large majority of the 110 million refugees world wide. As a comparison there are around 20,000 Syrian refugees in the U.K.
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Post by Rafwan on Aug 10, 2023 10:14:18 GMT
Not at all - I am actually fond of the Scots and see them as compatriots rather than foreigners. Psephologically ,however, I suspect that the prospect of Labour being likely to oust the Tories nationally across GB will swing a fair proprtion of recent SNP supporters behind Labour. I also strongly suspect that there has been a significant decline in the salience of Independence as an issue and that the new First Minister will not prove impressive during a GE campaign. I am glad that you are fond of the Scots although, in general, our social values are totally at odds with yours. Why do you think the constitutional question is no longer an issue in Scotland? Surely recent polling shows otherwise? What are your specific criticisms of the new First Minister? Have you ever been to Scotland? Do you have any current contact with Scotland? Or is your opinion based on "reports" from the English press? One of the most memorable days of my life (albeit nearly twenty years ago) was climbing Beinn Alligin, starting (unusually) with the exhilarating Horns. Nearly killed me. But, as you will rightly say, just another effing tourist! |
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Aug 10, 2023 10:21:12 GMT
True, at the moment, BEV competition for cars at the lower end of the price range are much more limited at the moment - but they are coming. Expect matters to be very different in 2 or so years time. The question is, what are the real manufacturing costs of electric vehicles? I can well beliueve they are classed as premium products at the moment and so given premium prices. But is there really scope to sell them for the same price as bottom of the range petrol vehicles? I doubt things will be 'very different' in a couple of years. |
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Aug 10, 2023 10:23:53 GMT
. They were thwarted by the common sense of the British people. Brexit only happened because enough people believed it would not cost them money. Hence the big red bus promising savings. That was a flat lie. Part of why people accepted the lie was because affable Johnson was heading the campaign, and the outsider Nigel Farage. There was a significant element of 'if the mainstram politicians are saying something it must be a lie'. So it was a classic example fo the boy who cried wolf, that when they told the truth no one believed them. |
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Aug 10, 2023 10:51:23 GMT
neiljI thought it was Victoria But how about Gordian I emperor of Rome including Britannia, 81 years old at death. No, Richard Cromwell! |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2023 11:41:37 GMT
Following a rapprochement with my old chum the Battmeister I am proud to announce our new joint venture: ******************CANAL CRUISES WITH CROFTY  AND CROSSBAT  ****************** You will share a luxury, individual cabin with some other old people and the highlight of the trip will be an overnight stay in glamorous DROITWICH with mercian conducting a tour of the area and crossbat11 helping with translation. Deposits being accepted now, cash only, no Scottish notes please. |
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Post by leftieliberal on Aug 10, 2023 11:58:47 GMT
Following a rapprochement with my old chum the Battmeister I am proud to announce our new joint venture: ******************CANAL CRUISES WITH CROFTY AND CROSSBAT ****************** You will share a luxury, individual cabin with some other old people and the highlight of the trip will be an overnight stay in glamorous DROITWICH with mercian conducting a tour of the area and crossbat11 helping with translation. Deposits being accepted now, cash only, no Scottish notes please. Any chance of organising the overnight stay in a canal tunnel where there is no wi-fi or mobile signal, so the rest of us can get a respite from certain people's postings? |
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steve
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Post by steve on Aug 10, 2023 11:58:53 GMT
neiljSneaky I was thinking head of state until their death. Richard Cromwell lived for around 55 years after his brief interlude as Lord Protector. Having said that the job came with a £100,000 a year salary ( about £20 million now) so Dick was sitting pretty once he had departed.
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Post by leftieliberal on Aug 10, 2023 12:10:54 GMT
I wonder how long he was incarcerated there? Alcatraz isn't used as a prison any more; he probably went there on a day trip. www.alcatrazislandtickets.com/ |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2023 12:15:24 GMT
Following a rapprochement with my old chum the Battmeister I am proud to announce our new joint venture: ******************CANAL CRUISES WITH CROFTY AND CROSSBAT ****************** You will share a luxury, individual cabin with some other old people and the highlight of the trip will be an overnight stay in glamorous DROITWICH with mercian conducting a tour of the area and crossbat11 helping with translation. Deposits being accepted now, cash only, no Scottish notes please. Any chance of organising the overnight stay in a canal tunnel where there is no wi-fi or mobile signal, so the rest of us can get a respite from certain people's postings? I know people refer to him privately as “Boring Batty” but feel you are being a bit unkind with that comment. Anyway, how did you know the b and b was in a tunnel? That was supposed to be a surprise. |
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Post by leftieliberal on Aug 10, 2023 12:22:33 GMT
Any chance of organising the overnight stay in a canal tunnel where there is no wi-fi or mobile signal, so the rest of us can get a respite from certain people's postings? I know people refer to him privately as “Boring Batty” but feel you are being a bit unkind with that comment. Anyway, how did you know the b and b was in a tunnel? That was supposed to be a surprise. Actually, it was banjo-related postings I was thinking about; someone who is a Villain can't be all bad. |
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Post by Mark on Aug 10, 2023 12:49:24 GMT
Well, that was a doddle, turned out I didn’t need any help after all. However, I wanted to use a river photo or a lovely one of little Rosie. How does one move a photo from google photos to the required library please? Instructions are for desktp/laptop using Firefox. Should be the same or similar in other major browsers. If you are using a phone, someone else will need to help you. Go to the page where the photo you want is. Make sure it's the actual pic and not a thumbnail. Right click on the pic. This will bring up a context menu. From this menu, select "save image as". All you now have to do is save the pic rom the save dialogue that comes up. One little tip you probobly won't need, some sites are disabling the right click menu. This is to stop you from taking stuff (pics etc). from their pages. If this is the case (doubtful, as it's your own pics on a Google page, but, you never know), shift+f10 sometimes gets around this, as does shift+right click. |
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steve
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Post by steve on Aug 10, 2023 13:33:33 GMT
Don't compare me to the almighty just compare me to the alternative. Jo Biden Superb rant from the Midas touch network. youtu.be/laNELNr7cl8 |
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steve
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Post by steve on Aug 10, 2023 13:35:33 GMT
Paul
Do you do a lot of cruising down towpaths?
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Aug 10, 2023 13:44:29 GMT
After yet another tragedy in the Med then we clearly need to reduce the 'Pull' factors to UK Surely the real problem is not the UK's pull factor, but the push factor escaping from wherever they have come from. To solve this we need to make conditions better in their home countries. Internationally we have been doing the exact opposite. The main reason to do this, of course, would be so the rights of UK citizens cease to be protected. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2023 13:44:42 GMT
Paul Do you do a lot of cruising down towpaths? No, never been near one, Batty is the expert in that regard. I’ve just been brought “on board” to add a bit of class, do the cabaret and help translate Batty’s monologues for the paying customers. (Don’t always understand him myself so have to make a lot of it up.) Are you interested? We do excellent deals if you want to also freelance as a security officer when we get into Droitwich. |
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steve
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Post by steve on Aug 10, 2023 13:50:51 GMT
Leeanderthal "I’m very angry about the number. Again, very angry, as you know, every single day when I see these illegal migrants." No shit Sherlock I'd have never guessed. Anderson also of course repeated his total bollocks claim that people arriving on small boats are not genuine asylum seekers – even though Home Office data, you know the home office run by fascist wannabe Braverman, suggests that a majority of them are. Last year 90% of people who arrived this way claimed asylum. Most of these claims have not yet been processed,because the regime spends its time on xenophobic click bait gimmicks not processing the claims, but of all the claims that have been processed since 2018, 61% have been accepted. So thick as pig shit, lying and racist, or perfect ministerial material as the regime describes him.  |
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Post by johntel on Aug 10, 2023 13:54:19 GMT
Following a rapprochement with my old chum the Battmeister I am proud to announce our new joint venture: ******************CANAL CRUISES WITH CROFTY AND CROSSBAT ****************** You will share a luxury, individual cabin with some other old people and the highlight of the trip will be an overnight stay in glamorous DROITWICH with mercian conducting a tour of the area and crossbat11 helping with translation. Deposits being accepted now, cash only, no Scottish notes please. Any chance of organising the overnight stay in a canal tunnel where there is no wi-fi or mobile signal, so the rest of us can get a respite from certain people's postings? Unfortunately I understand the after dinner entertainment is a debate about COVID strategy led by Danny and Alec, followed by a late night game of Hunt the Racist :-( |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2023 13:59:19 GMT
Any chance of organising the overnight stay in a canal tunnel where there is no wi-fi or mobile signal, so the rest of us can get a respite from certain people's postings? Unfortunately I understand the after dinner entertainment is a debate about COVID strategy led by Danny and Alec, followed by a late night game of Hunt the Racist :-( That’s the underwater bit. |
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Aug 10, 2023 14:07:40 GMT
neiljSneaky I was thinking head of state until their death. Richard Cromwell lived for around 55 years after his brief interlude as Lord Protector. Having said that the job came with a £100,000 a year salary ( about £20 million now) so Dick was sitting pretty once he had departed. As I said I was surprised Richard Cromwell had a bad press in my opinion He's always portrayed as weak, reading up on him his mistake appeared to be trying to bring people together and heal wounds. Like many moderates he ended up pleasing no one With the restoration he had to go on the run in Europe under assumed names where he lived most of his life, only returning to England right at the end of it My view is he couldn't have been that weak to have survived so long when many of his contemporaries came to a sudden and sharp end under Charles II |
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