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Post by mercian on Aug 9, 2023 0:04:50 GMT
Some of the LoC confusion about what is and what is not 'racism' is perhaps due to the misuse of racism accusations by LAB HQ? It would be entirely justified for someone to criticise the Qatar govt* but not generalise about ALL Qatari or muslim people. However, when it comes to Israel then the 'hierarchy of racism' has been flipped and, under Starmer's 'new' management, then criticising the Israeli govt (not all Israeli or jewish people) is grounds for expulsion from LAB Although the 'real' reason is probably that she was 'Far-Left' and the false accusation of anti-semitism was merely a convenient excuse. www.thejc.com/news/politics/naomi-wimborne-idrissi-suspended-by-labour-again-for-speaking-at-event-of-proscribed-group-5i4O0Lzmr6eKLCYH2ajeKJSimilarly it is not racist to highlight and criticise some of the ongoing, illegal, practices of some groups in UK provided it is clearly not a criticism of an entire group of people. I appreciate some folks struggle with being able to spot the difference but the incorrect use of the term 'racist' is why the Police fear investigating some ongoing illegal practices (links already provided). Hence IMO the importance of ensuring the word 'racist' is used accurately and not just chucked around as an ignorant, unsubstantiated insult. Actual racism clearly is an ongoing issue but claims of racism need to be substantiated with actual evidence, not misrepresentations (eg as per the discrimination against white males conducted until recently by the RAF**). * As Starmer did, noting "In the Arabian country it is illegal to promote or engage in homosexuality and therefore has been scrutinised for its treatment of the LGBTQI+ community as well as women and migrant workers". Although saying he wouldn't watch England play was 'virtue signalling' IMO. www.lbc.co.uk/radio/special-shows/call-keir/keir-starmer-human-rights-issues-labour-refuse-to-go-to-qatar/** Still rumbling on: news.sky.com/story/fury-at-lack-of-sanction-for-raf-over-botched-diversity-drive-as-soldiers-face-10-000-fine-for-getting-drunk-12934256I didn't want to get involved in the mercian post issue and indeed ignored it at the time. The issue I have with that kind of post is that he was outlining his concerns about what he called Muslim culture as opposed to what he called Western culture, and then proceded to identify 4 subject areas where the views/positions identified were either not Muslim at all, or otherwise did not originate with Islam but with either the Judeo-Christian tradition or earlier social norms. If mercian genuinely believes that these views are not massively prevalent in Western societies (semi-ironcally especially on the populist Right in those Western societies) then that's unfortunate, because they are. As for FGM, there is nothing about it at all in Islam and the practice predates Islam by at least 2000 years. In the very first post that sparked all this off, I said something like FGM is not required in Islam but is a practice of some Muslim people. Someone then posted that Christians from sub-Saharan Africa practised it too. so I took their word for it. It doesn't matter where these practices originated from or what religions practise them (for new readers we're talking about FGM, honour killings, forced marriages and there must have been a fourth one because RAF said, but I've forgotten). Anyway the point is that these practises if ever known in this country were long abolished and have now been imported. They may be illegal, but they do happen and I think that on balance that's a bad thing. I also said that if a section of the population such as say white Christians in Brighton suddenly decided to start doing these things I would also not be too keen. It's not to do with racism or religious bigotry or anything else apart from these things are BAD and we didn't have them in this country until we had mass immigration. (Cue some leftie to dig out a 19th century example of forced marriage or some other irrelevance). Let's please drop this or someone start a sub-thread about it. |
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Post by mercian on Aug 9, 2023 0:20:49 GMT
That was a bit spooky, oldnat !  They never forget. EDIT: Beaten to it by @isa again! I might have to start lurking here all day but that would be very sad. |
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Post by eor on Aug 9, 2023 0:21:03 GMT
I think you over-estimate the strength of partisanship by voters compared to the joys of giving 'the establishment' a good kicking. For a historical example see how the voters of Bristol South East kept returning Tony Benn to parliament in a series of by-elections in the early 1960s even though he was disqualified from being an MP due to having inherited a peerage. That sounds awfully like voters might vote for recall just to keep having extra elections as a bit of fun. Its only a 10% threshold. And even if the 90% do not want it, there is nothing they can do to stop it. Nothing they can do to stop it, but all it means is that there would be a by-election in which the incumbent MP is almost certain to stand again. And if the constituency is made to vote again because some clever game-players elsewhere want to overturn the original result, that's probably not going to go well. Remember Mark Oaten in Winchester in 1997? He was declared the winner for the LibDems in the GE count by 2 votes, and then the Tories made a legal challenge (after their candidate had graciously accepted defeat at the count!), forced a by-election, which Oaten then won by nearly 22,000. That should be a cautionary tale to anyone who thinks triggering an unwarranted by-election for party political advantage is a good idea. |
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Post by mercian on Aug 9, 2023 0:23:08 GMT
God people on this site are sensitive. It is quite obvious what athena meant. Not to talk about the endless pearl clutching about mercian ' s comments, who is a perfectly reasonable poster, even if he doesn't fulfil some people's ideas about correct terminology. This isn't Twitter/X. Lighten up. Only Danny deserves the waterboarding. Without referencing mercian specifically, a good rule of life these days is that if you don't challenge racism (and sexism, homophobia, transphobia, etc.) when you see or hear them, then you are effectively condoning those views. It is lack of challenge that allows bigotry to grow and prosper. So I will carry on doing so - but hopefully in a constructive manner to the best of my ability. As I will continue to challenge lefty orthodoxy, and for the same reasons. |
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Post by mercian on Aug 9, 2023 0:28:53 GMT
There is a fundamental problem with electric vehicles that much of the weight is in the batteries, so that fundamentally if you want a long range vehicle, then it is unsuitable to be used for short daily trips, because the weight of those permanent batteries means it is significantly less efficient as a short distance runaround, and a lot more expensive too. . Another problem with the weight is that some multi-storey car parks might not be able to cope if a lot of cars on the road weigh more than they used to. Also of course some bridges and roads. |
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Post by eor on Aug 9, 2023 0:33:34 GMT
Not at all surprised - personally I found the earlier speculation about the inquiry being done in a year or two to be bafflingly optimistic. The inquiry into the Grenfell disaster was launched six years ago, the Saville inquiry into Bloody Sunday took well over a decade, and both arguably had rather narrower and more specific frames of reference than COVID. But this is just module 1 concerning the UK's preparedness, the prequel if you wish, there are 6 modules in all. If it takes 20 months for each module then you would be looking at 10 plus years! It was originally suggested Module one would be finished early 2024, now early summer 2024. But the problem is it will then go to the Government to consider before publication. It is thought that part of the process may delay it until we arrive in the purdah period in the run upto the election, so wouldn't be published until after it It would be the delay by the Government that I unfortunately wouldn't be surprised at. This Government does have previous for delaying electorally inconvenient reports For example the Russia report, finished in March 2019, but not published until July 2020! - I wasn't aware of the modular nature of this one! But yes, 10 plus years for the overall thing seems far more like what I'd expect - as I said, Saville took even longer than that despite being focused on explaining what happened on one day in one place. That the government will seek to further time things to their advantage also feels like a given - and another 1997 parallel for those keeping score. John Major used some interesting tactics to ensure the report on sleaze wasn't published until after the GE, including I think a prorogation of parliament similar to the one Boris Johnson failed with under legal challenge. |
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Post by mercian on Aug 9, 2023 0:36:14 GMT
It does make you wonder what were the real motives for causing brexit amongst those who seem truly commited to the cause, because obviously it wasnt to stem immigration. If you judge by outcomes, the aim was to reduce the power and capability of the UK to the benefit of foreign powers with malign intent against the UK.
In my case as I have said before, it was about sovereignty. If we elect a government with any balls (sorry ladies) we could get out of those treaties if we wanted to. Could we have done from within the EU? Could we bring back the death penalty? Could we export to the USA in their units? And so on. I'm not saying any of these things will happen because nearly all of our politicians are spineless, but the whole point is that they now could happen if the right politicians were elected. |
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Post by mercian on Aug 9, 2023 0:41:03 GMT
Sadiq Khan speaking out again in the absence of anything damning coming from Starmer et al. Regarding the reprehensible foul mouthed troll Anderson. Voters don't need Starmer to tell them what to think about Anderson's comments. I suspect they are capable of making their own judgements. ... Starmer doesn't need to engage with clowns like Anderson. He's bigger and better than that. Just like Big Joe was. I'm Sure they are. I wonder if more than 25% of the electorate agree with him? If so, prepare for the next tory government! 😁 You mean Big Joe who never punched his weight? In his case I heard that it was because he'd killed someone in the ring early in his career. What's Starmer's excuse? 🤣 |
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Post by mercian on Aug 9, 2023 0:42:47 GMT
We've got pretty good train and tram services in West Midlands county. I use my bus pass for that if I want to go to town, or even Worcester, Stratford etc sometimes. You have to pay a bit if you go outside the county boundary. You’re allowed outside the county boundary?!?!? Only under supervision 🤣 EDIT: Dammit beaten to it by crossbat11 this time! ☹ I'm going to have to up my game. |
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Post by mercian on Aug 9, 2023 0:47:30 GMT
Only if supervised, I think Mercian once told me No wonder he has to “pay a bit”. I’m not one to snitch on people but I think we should let the authorities know about this. You speak the language - can you tell them? Nice one. Genuine belly laugh!  EDIT: Noice wun. Geuwine belly loff. |
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Post by eor on Aug 9, 2023 0:57:09 GMT
Mainstream political parties in both the US and UK no lomnger have clear differences between them. They have spent decades chasing the middle voters and ignored the wings. This has pushed them closer and closer together so neither is distinct. (I mean, you really knew what Thatcher stood for as distinct from labour). Arguably it is good to have consensus government, but the system ahs become unstable and now allows minorities to seize control. It's more nuanced in the US - the problem in Congress in particular is the opposite of what you describe; such moderate parliamentarians as either party had have tended to be squeezed out as the process becomes ever more polarised. You can't legislate by constructive compromise if it just means you'll lose re-nomination to a purist from your own side. I agree tho that in terms of Presidential candidates it has tended to cause a pitch to the centre a lot of the time in recent years. Trump being the obvious and strange exception as he so often is. |
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oldnat
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Post by oldnat on Aug 9, 2023 0:57:38 GMT
mercian
It's quite hard to "drop this" while you keep posting about it!
You said "if a section of the population such as say "if white Christians in Brighton suddenly decided to start doing these things I would also not be too keen. It's not to do with racism or religious bigotry or anything else apart from these things are BAD and we didn't have them in this country until we had mass immigration."
I see no reason to doubt your sincerity that if white Christians in Brighton started to do bad things, you would disapprove. That does, however, suggest that you don't think that "white Christians in Brighton" (the example you chose as a "section of the population") don't do bad things at the moment. Some probably do - although not the particular bad things you choose to concentrate on. However, your categorisation of "white Christians in Brighton" as a potential group of people who could be universally labelled as sharing a negative characteristic, is precisely what bigotry is. In reality, that "group" would consist of individuals with widely varying beliefs - just as any other group would have.
In the immigrant communities that you refer to, some continue the cultural practices that they were taught, rather than adopt the values of the society that they have moved into. The immigrant group that you are descended from (it doesn't matter much which one) did exactly the same. If that group became dominant, then its values became dominant in the territory they moved into : if they remained a minority, then they gradually conformed to the dominant values already existing (no matter how bad we now think those values were!)
My problem with your comments is your regular reference to the "indigenous population" of UK/GB/England/Mercia or whatever. It seems likely that you are not referring to the original humans in that territory, but to those that happened to be there when you were a lad. Many will have come and gone during the years, but as long as the new people weren't identifiably "different" you probably neither noticed nor cared.
We do need to stamp out the practice of "bad things". Intolerance of "others" is a bad thing nowadays - even if it was a survival mechanism among early humans.
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Post by mercian on Aug 9, 2023 0:57:50 GMT
lensRe: hydrogen in cars, isn't there a psychological problem as well? Some of us 'remember' the Hindenburg. Some of those who don't are at least aware that hydrogen is highly combustible. Batteries seem relatively stable despite reports about e-bike batteries and the like going up in flames.
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Post by eor on Aug 9, 2023 0:58:03 GMT
My knowledge of cars is exceptionally basic! So can someone explain why batteries seem to be the preferred system for electric cars rather than hydrogen fuel cells?
Is this just a Betamax v VHS controversy?
Since hydrogen production requires little more than off peak renewable electricity (instead of turning the turbines off, and paying compensation!) and water, it would seem relatively easy to convert fossil fuel filling stations to hydrogen ones.
I seek enlightenment. Now that lens has given a detailed and technical answer, I feel less frivolous suggesting that it might in part be that a lot of people hear "hydrogen fuel" and immediately think explodey thoughts. That might be technologically and statistically unfair, tho the one that actually blew up at the filling station in Norway probably didn't help that cause. Yes I know various kinds of batteries catch fire all the time, and ICE cars explode in petrol stations too, but Oldnat asked about why people seem to have a certain preference, and perceptions and fears can (fairly or unfairly) be a significant part of that. |
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Post by mercian on Aug 9, 2023 1:18:45 GMT
oldnat "It's quite hard to "drop this" while you keep posting about it!" I only reply to people who keep raising it - like you. Weird. I don't like new very bad cultural practices and somehow I'm at fault? We could quibble about the meaning of 'indigenous people' for months on end with no agreement. I presume to you even the Beaker people weren't indigenous? And yes I do know that they weren't the first here, before you start patronising again. As I said to someone else upthread the point is, until the recent mass immigration things such as FGM etc were unknown in this country (by which I mean the UK, but if you want to claim an exception for Scotland that's fine by me). Now these things are not unknown. To me, that is not a positive. To be clear, this is not anything to do with racism, it is cultural. If Estonians came here in vast numbers and some of them decided to walk around naked in public all day I wouldn't be keen either. N.B. This is not an attack on Estonians, it was just a random predominately white and Christian country that came into my head, as the Brighton example seemed wrong for some reason.
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Mr Poppy
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Post by Mr Poppy on Aug 9, 2023 3:05:36 GMT
Why have you replied to me?!? If you want to get involved in the mercian issue, which you clearly haven't ignored, then please at least have the decency to reply to him and quote the specific sections of one of his posts that you object to (as per the 'update' clarification of the implementation of the rules)
mercian can then reply to you directly, based on the evidence you provide. I commented on 'Forced Marriages' and was clear to highlight actual research to show they were still occurring in UK and that it was not one specific religion that was continuing that illegal practice. In some cases they're very brave people within various communities coming forward to try to bring criminal charges against the perpetrators and then faced with a Police force that is too scared to get involved for fear of being accused of being racist. FWIW then 'Marital rape' is also illegal in UK but Police rarely seen to bring any charges for those crimes - and note I'm not saying any specific community is committing those crimes. www.lawtonslaw.co.uk/resources/what-are-the-legal-penalties-for-marital-rape/You referred to his post (as many are doing)so I replied to you. I wasn't commenting about you. The reason I didn't reply directly to him is that I was unsure whether he was still on the site, and I was expressing an opinion about that type of comment. If you want me to clarify further my issue was inaccuracy. ?!?! The post of mine* to which you replied made no mention of mercian , who I see has now replied to you directly. I don't want you to clarify further as your inaccuracy issue was replying to me about someone else in the first place. * My post was about the 'confusion' that some people seem to have between criticising the actions of a government with 'racism'. By all means actually read my post and reply to the content in that post if you want to: ukpollingreport2.proboards.com/post/96001/thread |
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Mr Poppy
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Post by Mr Poppy on Aug 9, 2023 3:21:14 GMT
Without referencing mercian specifically, a good rule of life these days is that if you don't challenge racism (and sexism, homophobia, transphobia, etc.) when you see or hear them, then you are effectively condoning those views. It is lack of challenge that allows bigotry to grow and prosper. So I will carry on doing so - but hopefully in a constructive manner to the best of my ability. As I will continue to challenge lefty orthodoxy, and for the same reasons. Has anyone actually found a post of yours that was 'racist'? From what I've read then you (and I) have been pointing out ILLEGAL practices that continue to occur in UK (eg FGM and Forced Marriages). I would have thought that people would challenge ILLEGAL activities rather than jump on the bandwagon of accusing anyone who mentions that some ILLEGAL practises continue occur is a 'racist'. As per links I've provided then part of the reason those ILLEGAL activities continue is due to the Police fear to investigate in case they are called 'racist' when in fact they would be seeking to enforce the law. I hope no one on UKPR2 supports or 'effectively condones' FGM, Forced Marriages, Marital Rape, etc. noting that in many cases those ILLEGAL practices also involve sexism, homophobia, transphobia, etc - something the two of us have been trying to point out! Below is the Guardian write-up of the 'Colin Bloom' report and it covers a variety of groups within UK, noting the problem is most certainly not confined to one religious group. I have already posted other studies that mention a variety of religions. www.theguardian.com/society/2023/apr/26/uk-forced-marriage-unit-under-funded-and-too-muslim-focused-bloom-reportPS We can agree to disagree on the issue of some Estonians* walking around naked in the UK, although it does depend on the circumstances. See "It's not an offence to be naked in public in England and Wales but it does become an offence if it can be proved the person stripped off with the intention to upset and shock."www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-33092812I wouldn't propose Rishi suggest that to the PM of Estonia if she visits the UK but if she chose to go naked then I doubt it would cause upset or shock (and hence be perfectly legal). * As mentioned in ukpollingreport2.proboards.com/post/96106/thread |
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Mr Poppy
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Post by Mr Poppy on Aug 9, 2023 3:43:10 GMT
YG have various new polls on the immigration issue: I wonder how many of the 28% saying the barges were unacceptable were saying that because they thought they were too luxurious or that the illegal immigrants should have been instantly deported? Specific wording can be an issue with some polling questions. I'll repost the link and show the x-breaks All adults: Acceptable 59%, Unacceptable 28%. Net 31% 'acceptable' CON: Acceptable 82%, Unacceptable 10%. Net 72% 'acceptable' LAB: Acceptable 37%, Unacceptable 49%. Net 12% 'unacceptable' Click on the link in below to see the above x-breaks and note they are correlated to age (although as if often the case then the youngest age groups have a lot more DKs). Also see Corbyn's* views which I'm going to assume cover the majority of the plurality of LAB stating 'unacceptable. However, Corbyn is a goner and LAB is under 'New' management (aka Tory Plan B)
* Jeremy Corbyn hits out at Labour position on migrant bargesnews.sky.com/story/political-cowardice-jeremy-corbyn-hits-out-at-labour-position-on-migrant-barges-12935421 |
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Aug 9, 2023 4:15:24 GMT
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Aug 9, 2023 4:53:08 GMT
Isn't the challenge here for politicians brave enough to do so, to debunk the fears and scaremongering rather than pander to it? The ban on new car sales in 2030 isn't, as some fear, the deadline to get out of whatever vehicle you're currently driving and buy an electric alternative, it is instead a first key stage in the gradual and managed phasing out of petrol and diesel engine motor car use. By then, car manufacture and infrastructure development will be such that the costs and current difficulties with electric powered cars will, via sensible government, have gone. During the last 13 years we should have been ramping up carrots. Yep. The right wing approach is to apply sticks, make those regulations, and so what if the poorer can’t afford to meet them. The more left wing approach would be more carrots and funding. Some of the better off might prefer to be giving less support to those who can’t afford it. But in the end, if you don’t provide the support then the better off might suffer some of the extra pollution anyway. And the effects of climate change. The regulations are one thing but the real issue is aiding adoption. And maybe there could be more dosh going into better tyre and road compounds too, to counter those particulates. |
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Aug 9, 2023 5:51:44 GMT
If this is the backdrop to the next election then perhaps the tories getting just 90 seats isn't impossible www.theguardian.com/business/2023/aug/09/risk-of-uk-recession-at-next-general-election-is-60-says-thinktankRishi Sunak will fight the next election against a backdrop of an economy suffering from five years of lost growth and a widening of the gap between the prosperous and less well off parts of Britain, a leading thinktank said on Wednesday. The National Institute of Economic and Social Research (NIESR) said it would take until the third quarter of 2024 for UK output to return to its pre-pandemic peak and that there was a 60% risk of the government going to the polls during a recession. NIESR said the poorest tenth of the population had been especially hard hit by Britain’s cost of living crisis and would need an income boost of £4,000 a year to have the same living standards they enjoyed in the year before Covid-19 arrived' |
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steve
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Post by steve on Aug 9, 2023 5:54:05 GMT
mercian The average size and weight of normally aspirated cars is around 20% higher than it was in 1980, car parks haven't routinely collapsed under the additional weight. But it does explain why the parking bays routinely seem too small. It's not that they've changed it's the cars that are bigger.
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steve
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Post by steve on Aug 9, 2023 6:11:42 GMT
neilj It is possible for party's seat numbers even under systems akin to first past the post to fall dramatically. In 1992 the conservative party in Canada held an absolute majority in parliament holding 156 seats out of 306 based on 43% of the vote at the previous election on a fptp system. At the general election in 1993 their vote share tumbled to 16% their representation fell to 2, their fortunes improved dramatically by 2006 where they became the largest party again, but they have never subsequently held a majority of seats. It's entirely possible that a tory collapse at the next general election could see them out of office as a majority government even under fptp for the foreseeable future. Under PR if progressive parties and the progressive elements within Labour get our way then the Tory parties long history as the longest surviving political party in the world could be ended.
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Aug 9, 2023 6:18:30 GMT
Well! Where to start....... … Regarding the point about using off peak renewable, the problem is that such requires having electrolysis equipment standing by - idle most of the time - ready for the relatively short periods of such peaks. It indeed would mean better utilisation of such as a windfarm - but at the cost of very poor utilisation of electrolysis plant, and the capital going into that. And frankly there are better ways of achieving a grid balance, such as more grid storage and smart metering. (Encouraging by price electricity consumption at times of otherwise low usage - and overnight car battery charging is a good way to achieve such.)
….
Thanks for the response. It helps. However, I'm intrigued by your response about using offpeak renewable electricity. You are probably correct. It would be much more effective to use the output from nuclear stations (which we seldom need as baseload) to provide the power for electrolysis. That would only require the electrolysis process to be briefly interrupted, when there was insufficient wind/tide/solar. The output from offpeak wind/solar would just be an additional benefit.
I'm with you on improved grid storage. That Downing St still hasn't signalled the UK energy policy, to the companies with shovel ready hydro storage schemes, to allow them to go ahead at zero cost to the public purse is "regrettable" - but unsurprising.
Well, this has cropped up before, so to summarise: while the cost of plant - in this case the electrolyser for producing hydrogen - lying idle some of the time might be a factor, it isn’t necessarily that critical. After all, we have gas peaker plants lying idle a lot of the time already, but they’re still viable. In the case of Wind Turbines, you have the additional concern, that the wind turbines are quite often themselves lying idle as it is, and yet they are still considered to be economically viable. Part of the reason they lie idle, is when the wind isn’t very strong. But there’s another case when the wind is much better, and there’s actually too much leccy being produced for the grid to handle. In these circumstances, not only are the wind turbines turned off, and lying idle, but we might even be obliged to pay for them to be turned off. This is why an electrolyser might be considered preferable. Yes, you have the cost of the electrolyser lying idle some of the time, but you have to set that against the cost of leaving the wind turbine lying idle, and the loss of what you might have made selling the hydrogen it could have produced, and the cost of any payments we might make to turn the turbine off. So, despite the cost of the electrolyser, it may still be viable to fit them. Especially as the cost may well come down as they get deployed more, and it’s possible hydrogen may become more valuable as demand increases. (Although that is subject to things like alternative sources of hydrogen, including white, and turquoise hydrogen which if they take off sufficiently may drive down the price. The economics of it may shift). Regarding the use of nuclear you mention, it has something going for it, though it would help rather if they adopted cheaper nuclear generation methods, as opposed to the traditional kind which require big containment domes and expensive fuel reprocessing etc. |
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steve
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Post by steve on Aug 9, 2023 6:41:39 GMT
Something that interested me from the USA is the continued underperformance of maga fascist republicans when it comes to actual votes compared to polling.
Ohio Issue 1 subject to a vote on the 8th is an example.
If passed, it would have:
Required 60% of voters to pass a new constitutional amendment, instead of a simple majority of 50% plus one.
Required citizens who want to place an amendment on the ballot to collect signatures from at least 5% of voters from the last gubernatorial election in all 88 counties, instead of the current 44.
Eliminated a 10-day cure period that allows citizens to replace any signatures deemed faulty by the secretary of state's office.
The purpose of course was to enshrine maga generated law such as removing a women's control of her own body and gerrymandered voting districts in such a way that even a democratic majority in this swing /leaning democrat state couldn't remove it.
Polling suggested that the vote would be close with settled opinion probably favouring the passing of issue 1.
Reality check time on a remarkably high turnout for this type of election the measure was defeated according to preliminary results by 57% to 43%, with a huge percentage of independents voting against and a unusually high turnout among young voters and women.
These issues are going to be on the ticket at the general election and I suspect when push comes to shove put another nail in the traitor's coffin.
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Post by crossbat11 on Aug 9, 2023 7:19:44 GMT
steve
Tend to agree about Republican underperformance when real votes are cast in US elections. It occurred at the most recent mid-term Congressional elections too when the Democrats exceeded polling expectations whilst the Republicans did the opposite.
It's always worth remembering too that Trump, for all the sycophantic hype about his popularity, has in effect lost two presidential elections, certainly in terms of the popular vote. He lost them by healthy margins too, although the electoral college system got him into the White House in 2016.
I'm of the view, probably a minority one for now, that even if he wins the Republican nomination for the 2024 presidential race, and stays out of jail in order to be able to run, he'll get soundly beaten by whoever the Democrats put up against him.
It really is a little silly to hang any hats on polling this far ahead of the race. I'm not at all sure he'll even get on the ballot paper.
P.S. Didn't Trump endorsed candidates fare disproportionately badly in the recent Congressional and Governor elections too??
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Post by barbara on Aug 9, 2023 7:28:43 GMT
I understand why SUnak and his crew are intent on these niche culture war issues - because it's all they'e got.
But the polls continue to show that it's not changing any minds. The reason is that all the people who get wound up by all this ridiculous posturing are already in the Tories corner, that's where their persistent 20s polling comes from. It's highly unlikely that anyone who hadn't already jumped to them will be swayed at this late stage by even more extreme right wing positions.
Indeed it's possible that there may still be a few one nation Tories hanging on in there because of a general antipathy to Labour but yesterday's defence of the atrocious remarks by 3p Lee might be the final straw.
We'll see over the next few polls but unless a miracle happens to the economy or Sunak has a personality and morality conversion, these poll numbers are baked in now.
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steve
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Post by steve on Aug 9, 2023 7:33:04 GMT
crossbat11It's possible that the Fulton county indictment likely next week will see the traitor where he belongs behind bars before the general election, as these are state law riko felony charges he doesn't get to pardon himself either. The most serious likely charges carry prison terms of up to twenty years.
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steve
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Post by steve on Aug 9, 2023 7:36:23 GMT
barbara I doubt if it ever will ,those who think that way are already guaranteed tork/kip voters. I appreciate Starmer seems to think they are really " traditional Labour voters" but I doubt that particular total bollocks will impact the result of the general election , other than to further make a Labour vote simply a vehicle to get rid of the tories. My own vote is governed by A party that seems to share most of my values And of course getting the tories out. Currently there is no contradiction between the two , it might get a tad trickier at a general election, but to be honest the current Labour leadership isn't doing much to encourage me and other progressive supporters to lend them out vote. If it's obviously the only way to get rid of the Tory incumbent I will but with zero enthusiasm regarding vanilla Brexit with a cherry on the top labour
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Post by crossbat11 on Aug 9, 2023 7:41:30 GMT
crossbat11It's possible that the Fulton county indictment likely next week will see the traitor where he belongs behind bars before the general election, as these are state law riko felony charges he doesn't get to pardon himself either. The most serious likely charges carry prison terms of up to twenty years. I suspect for all his current bluster, some reality will shortly dawn on Trump as he ponders the possibility of lengthy prison sentences. His flag waving sycophants won't save him from the law and I suspect he'll soon be scurrying around trying to save his skin by whatever legal means still available to him. Hence my suspicion that he won't be the Republican presidential candidate for 2024. We're getting way too far ahead of ourselves fantasising about Trump v Biden. It'll soon be Trump v The Law. Then all bets will be off. |
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