|
|
Post by EmCat on Jul 7, 2023 7:01:59 GMT
I see MPs are becoming exercised about their local train ticket office closing. Last time I bought a ticket, the ticket machine did not work. When I then tried the ticket office, its a medium size station, the guy there said yes, it was always breaking down and was often repaired but for some reason they couldnt fix it properly. An awful lot of people will not be able to get tickets, because while closing ticket offices might become inevitable on grounds of economy, the ticket machines do not work and do not provide a full range of tickets, and the underlying problem behind that of there being a far too complicated range of tickets seems to be unresolveable for reasons of the contracts made with private operators. Plus lack of will to ropen the whole problem of funding and service standards. At my local station, I've noticed that the actual mechanisms used in the public ticket machines is slower than the one used by the staff to print tickets, while the software also seems to be slower. Those additional seconds mount up, which makes it easy for a queue to form, even when there aren't too many people (not everyone realises the ticket office is also open). That in turn means that someone arriving at the last moment will simply hop on the train rather than wrestle with the machine. Not only that, but an attempt to buy a ticket online is potentially even slower, as the system doesn't allow for purchase for trains less than 5 minutes away. This can be an issue when the train is on the cusp between peak and off peak - buying an online ticket would be off peak, but the next train to arrive would be peak. |
|
|
|
Post by jimjam on Jul 7, 2023 7:04:22 GMT
Another circa 20% Lab lead poll out, this time TechneUK.
''NEW POLL: Labour lead by 21 points:
Lab 47% (+1)
Con 26% (-1)
LibDem 10% (-1)
Reform 6% (nc)
Green 5% (nc)
SNP 3% (nc)
1,632 questioned on 5-6 July.
+/- 28-29 June.
Data - technetracker.co.uk pic.twitter.com/Z6NYEh2w46
07/07/2023, 08:00''
|
|
|
|
Post by barbara on Jul 7, 2023 7:10:10 GMT
expatr/steve The severity and frequency of these sexual offences in Parliament does seem inexplicable but I wonder if there are a number of special factors at play here. It is not a remotely typical workplace. Opportunity, the key precursor of all crimes, must be one. The working hours, the chance to work in close proximity to people who may defer to their authority and hierarchical power over them, men (mainly) away from their homes and families for days on end and the age of many of the male (mainly) MPs who still live in antediluvian moral times where misogynistic attitudes were the norm. Then you get into cliche country. Politics is show business for ugly people and the Commons is a glorified public school full of overgrown adolescent upper middle class twits. But cliches always have an element of truth about them. [b P.S. I didn't see eor's post before I submitted mine. He puts it better than I did. I think all that is true and certainly explains the harassment end of this - the horny, entitled and drunk - yep definitely
There does seem something of going beyond making a nuisance of yourself (which I am not trying to underplay the importance of) and some of what is described which is simply Trumpian/Savileian levels of assault - hand up skirt as soon as you see someone you like type of thing - beyond human frailty and opportunity into something much darker. Beyond not taking no for an answer and into just not bothering to ask.
Going to shut up now as this is difficult to articulate without sounding like an antediluvian misogynist thug.
It's a power thing. Being an MP is a powerful position and seen to be so. Most MPs are drawn by the ability to exercise power, even if it's in order to improve things. The whole set up at Westminster is around the power and centrality of the MP, all other functions serve that. Second, most MPs employ younger Spads, researchers, office staff, both male and female, lots of whom are drawn to the role by its proximity to the powerful and influential and future potential opportunities and experiences. Add in lots of opportunities for post work socialising in a privileged atmosphere, alcohol........ So - powerful men, living away from their wives and families, led to believe they are wonderful, surrounded by lots of young acolytes, hanging on their every word, trying to please them, afraid to cross them..... the result is pretty inevitable for a certain type of MP. |
|
|
|
Post by EmCat on Jul 7, 2023 7:12:58 GMT
@danny "In a way this seems rather like the debate on sexual harassment, issues have become muddled and polarised' Not sure what you are getting at there with your comparison It seems very clear to me sexual harassment is wrong, I'm not at all muddled about that and I suspect the large majority aren't either I would say that the reporting of it is being (possibly deliberately) muddled and polarised, as the language used does a lot to influence how people regard a situation. Many years ago, different groups of people were asked to watch a film of a staged road accident and then to answer a few questions on it. The first question was "How fast do you think the car was going?" However, in the preamble, one group was told they were going to be watching a car collision, and in the other, a car smash. Those in the "smash" group generally thought the car was going about 10mph faster than the "collision" group. It is noticeable that some reports are saying he "groped", rather then "sexually assaulted". With the former, the Standards Committee's recommended suspension period sounds harsh. With the latter, it doesn't sound harsh enough. Since MPs are likely to have to decide on his fate, the way the incidents are framed matters. |
|
|
|
Post by crossbat11 on Jul 7, 2023 7:17:20 GMT
Dave
The site's more learned psephologists than me will no doubt confirm or otherwise, but I seem to recall Anthony Wells once telling us that voters expectations of which party was going to win an election were a more accurate predictor of the actual election result than snapshot voting intention polls.
I don't know whether they still conduct such polls, and I don't recall seeing one for some time, but the concept initially seemed an odd one to me. However, when you think about it, there is some logic in it and you touch on it yourself in your post. A sort of self-fulfilling prophecy whereby the expectation brings about the reality.
It may be more prosaic in reality whereby we're merely predicting the blindingly obvious, but when an incumbent government look like losers, and that perception gains traction in in the public's mind, then loss of confidence in them accelerates and voters herd towards the likely winners.
Spectacular by election losses play into this, of course, and they undermine confidence too amongst the losing side. Boosting the winners at the same time.
The Big Mo is what they call it in US politics. The other side of the same coin is the Unstoppable Slide. The Tories may have started theirs some time ago.
I suspect Partygate was when it all began.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2023 7:21:23 GMT
Starmer quotes Gove :-
"Starmer quoted Michael Gove, the Conservative former education secretary, to criticise “the soft bigotry of low expectations” for poorer children.
“I don’t agree with everything he did in education, clearly, but when he said that — it was an important strike against the class ceiling, an acknowledgement that school standards are the most fundamental front line in the battle for more opportunity,” Starmer said."
Times
....maybe this chap does have some principles.....
|
|
|
|
Post by crossbat11 on Jul 7, 2023 7:28:43 GMT
Starmer quotes Gove :- "Starmer quoted Michael Gove, the Conservative former education secretary, to criticise “the soft bigotry of low expectations” for poorer children. “I don’t agree with everything he did in education, clearly, but when he said that — it was an important strike against the class ceiling, an acknowledgement that school standards are the most fundamental front line in the battle for more opportunity,” Starmer said." Times ....maybe this chap does have some principles..... Who? Gove or Starmer? |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2023 7:37:11 GMT
Starmer quotes Gove :- "Starmer quoted Michael Gove, the Conservative former education secretary, to criticise “the soft bigotry of low expectations” for poorer children. “I don’t agree with everything he did in education, clearly, but when he said that — it was an important strike against the class ceiling, an acknowledgement that school standards are the most fundamental front line in the battle for more opportunity,” Starmer said." Times ....maybe this chap does have some principles..... Who? Gove or Starmer? Starmer-I already knew about Gove. I thought Starmer's speech on education was thoughtful & interesting. More animated and less wooden than hitherto. His undisguised comments about the small c conservatism of some in the teaching establishment were interesting to me. I hope that this wasnt yet another shop window with dog whistle. I would have thought the polls tell him he is pretty much past that perceived barrier. It would be good to feel he is beginning to say what he actually believes at last. |
|
Mr Poppy
Member
Teaching assistant and now your elected PM
Posts: 3,774
|
Post by Mr Poppy on Jul 7, 2023 7:43:37 GMT
Starmer quotes Gove :- "Starmer quoted Michael Gove, the Conservative former education secretary, to criticise “the soft bigotry of low expectations” for poorer children. “I don’t agree with everything he did in education, clearly, but when he said that — it was an important strike against the class ceiling, an acknowledgement that school standards are the most fundamental front line in the battle for more opportunity,” Starmer said." Times ....maybe this chap does have some principles..... Indeed. Things like reversing the snobbery of academia over vocational training (noting which party set 50% of kids going to Uni as a goal and which party scrapped that daft idea); and "equality of opportunity" rather than "equality of outcome" Dare I say Starmer has Tory principles  A vacuous cliche ridden speech and whilst clearly 'oracy' skills are important then so is maths and access to sport and the importance of young people understanding the importance of a good diet and.. and.. and.. In terms of actual policy then his 5th and final mission can be summarised as reviewing the current curriculum (for England - given education is devolved). Understandably it has received very little attention - perhaps that was the intention? labour.org.uk/press/keir-starmer-unveils-labours-mission-to-break-down-barriers-to-opportunity-at-every-stage/ |
|
Danny
Member
Posts: 10,362
|
Post by Danny on Jul 7, 2023 7:55:48 GMT
Danny It has to do with jfk. jr the subject of the video, He advocated the utterly bogus theory that the measles vaccine was killing people as a result of the fall in uptake from 90% to 40% in just a few years and the slow response of the Samoan government, endorsed by JFK jr 84 people mostly children died needlessly from Measles. I never mentioned covid. covid is so important no one needs to mention it explicitly, its always there. The covid vaccine is rather a poor one compared to the measles vaccine. Anyone trashing vaccines is making a serious mistake, but equally anyone claiming they are always the answer or always successful is also making one. You cannot generalise, as both pro vaxers and anti vaxers have done. Malaria is another example where people have been trying to create a vaccine for decades. HIV too. |
|
|
|
Post by crossbat11 on Jul 7, 2023 7:57:53 GMT
Colin
I agree. Of course, this far ahead of manifesto writing and voting, some of these announcements, particularly by guarded and cautious oppositions, can be disappointingly bland. All motherhood and apple pie that signals little and is almost impossible to disagree with.
With that caveat in mind, you probably have to dig out what may be important precursors to eventual policy. Mood music that might contain important tunes in time. Starmer and Phillipson both have interesting educational backstories that might suggest something radical could occur in education policy if they had a chance to govern.
Sometimes this backstory willy-waving can be overdone in politics, but it seems self-evidently true to me that if you want to remove class ceilings in education and increase opportunities and life chances for children from deprived social and economic backgrounds, then it's a good start if you came from that background yourself.
|
|
pjw1961
Member
Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
Posts: 8,572
|
Post by pjw1961 on Jul 7, 2023 7:57:56 GMT
SOUTH LANARKSHIRE East Kilbride West (first preferences)
WILLIAMS, Kirsty (Scottish Labour Party) 1,386 (40.3% +13.7)
DORRIAN, Bill (Scottish Conservative and Unionist) 904 (26.3% +6.3)
GILLIES, Robert (Scottish National Party (SNP)) 778 (22.6% -8.3)
EADIE, Cameron (Scottish Greens - Think Global Act Local) 131 (3.8%)
KEANE, Kristofer (Independent) 99 (2.9%)
STEVENSON, Jake (Scottish Liberal Democrats) 83 (2.4% +0.3)
RICHARDSON, Jonathan Jack (Scottish Family Party) 42 (1.2% -0.4)
Labour elected at 6th stage. Labour gain from SNP.
|
|
Mr Poppy
Member
Teaching assistant and now your elected PM
Posts: 3,774
|
Post by Mr Poppy on Jul 7, 2023 8:02:26 GMT
That's certainly the line that Labour will take - that Scots need to vote Labour to eject the Tories - even though it is palpably a false argument. In the 6 seats held by SCon, voting SNP is the best way to eject the Tories. Replacing a Tory MP by an MP from any other party helps to eject the Tories : replacing an SNP MP with a Labour one doesn't damage the Tories in any way at all.
Of course, false arguments do sometimes work in politics, as the Brexit campaign amply demonstrated, so some voters in Scotland will be seduced by Labour's specious argument. Another false argument from one of our Scottish members. What Labour need to do is to win 326 seats and winning seats in Scotland from the SNP helps them do that. The SNP can never replace the Tories because they only stand in 59 seats (57 at the next General Election). Of course Labour will have to win seats in England as well, but the target is the same regardless of where in the UK that Labour win their seats. Pedantry alert but with SF abstaining, then the total for OM would be <326 (although Starmer would likely want a cushion against some rebels that he hasn't managed to purge) There is then also LDEM and some non-SNP smaller parties that mean Starmer could probably form a govt on 290+ LAB MPs. However, CON would stay in power until Starmer could form a HMG that has the "confidence of the House (of Commons)" and since LAB wouldn't work with SNP (or vice versa) then LAB winning seats from SNP in Scotland is going to help them kick CON out - although they'd probably get enough in England and Wales to not need to bother much with Scotland. TBC what would happen in the "messy" zone where LAB+LDEM+a few others <= CON (+DUP+SNP) noting that CON are 'Billy no mates'. I doubt we'll get to find out what happens in the "messy" zone in GE'24, but maybe in GE'29 (by which time it would be LAB that stay in power until CON+ can win the confidence of the house and kick them out). This has been covered ssssooo many times but if SNP were to become kingmakers and threaten to deny Starmer the keys to #10 then Starmer can call SNP "CON enablers" which is unlikely to go down well in the LoC Scottish seats (ie LAB/SNP marginals) when it then goes to a "do over" GE. Of course Starmer could also call SNP's bluff and make them hold IndyRef2 soon after GE'24, followed by "Clarity Acts" if Scots vote No (again). Provided Starmer is not stupid then Starmer can turn any SNP 'kingmaker' situation to his advantage and ensure LAB are in a strong position to make further gains in Scotland (at SNP's expense). NB There is an Issue Specific thread for this stuff so that it doesn't need to be replayed every week or so. ukpollingreport2.proboards.com/thread/56/scotland-indy-devolution-consistutional-issues |
|
neilj
Member
Posts: 6,390
|
Post by neilj on Jul 7, 2023 8:08:18 GMT
"Sky news poll tracker shows the gap between the parties widening in the past few weeks - undoing a lot of the Conservative polling gains since early in the year"
|
|
pjw1961
Member
Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
Posts: 8,572
|
Post by pjw1961 on Jul 7, 2023 8:08:51 GMT
Nail-biter in Kent CC, Maidstone Central
Lib Dem 1,860 (28.5% -1.6)
Green 1,849 (28.4% +13.9)
Con 1,564 (24.0% -12.4)
Lab 914 (14.0% -5.0)
Reform 278 (4.3%)
Ind 56 (0.9%)
Lib Dem hold
(If anyone is wondering how the Conservatives dropped 12.4% but is is a 'Lib Dem hold' it is because the Liberal Democrats won the second seat in the ward with 30% of the vote, while the top Tory got 36% last time).
|
|
Mr Poppy
Member
Teaching assistant and now your elected PM
Posts: 3,774
|
Post by Mr Poppy on Jul 7, 2023 8:18:53 GMT
IMO 'free tuition fees' would be a tax break for rich* families and Starmer broke his pledge on tuition fees earlier this year:
"Starmer: Labour will “move on” from pledge to scrap tuition fees"labourlist.org/2023/05/labour-drops-abolish-tuition-fees-free-policy-university-students-keir-starmer/So IMO, whilst it was a vacuous speech, then it was good to see Starmer "moving on" a bit further with comments about the 'snob' view of academic versus vocational. There is a variety of opinion polling on these issues. EG YG tracker "Are tuition fees fair" All adults: 47% (net +10%) "fair" CON: 58% (net +28%) "fair" with LAB: 48% (net +8%) "unfair" yougov.co.uk/topics/education/trackers/are-tuition-fees-fair* I wouldn't say I was rich and the window for me benefitting from a LAB HMG making Uni fees free again will be closing by 2025. So I've been dipping into savings to ensure my kids don't have £50k+ of debt when they leave Uni. Had LAB won in GE'19 then I might have saved myself £100k (although if Corbyn had won I'd probably be a lot more than £100k worse off). Anyway, I can rest easy that my personal and national interests will be aligned by 2025.  |
|
pjw1961
Member
Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
Posts: 8,572
|
Post by pjw1961 on Jul 7, 2023 8:20:11 GMT
|
|
steve
Member
Posts: 12,638
|
Post by steve on Jul 7, 2023 8:20:14 GMT
"Judges are trained to be utterly disparaging of people found guilty"
No they aren't judges routinely take into account exoneration and include it in their summation and when considering sentence.
You do talk some bollocks some time.
|
|
|
|
Post by alec on Jul 7, 2023 8:20:37 GMT
Funny how the right wing Brexiters spent a long time telling us that a trans-national monetary union wouldn't work because it didn't have fiscal flows from wealthier to poorer areas, and that initiating such flows was unacceptable to them, but how running a single currency in their own national single market doesn't need fiscal transfers.
The idea that a single market like the UK can function without fiscal transfers is, of course, completely stupid. All it does is create demand led inflation in the south, with increasing pressure for building, high costs and inefficiencies, while simultaneously creating under employment in other areas, which drag down the overall market capacity.
It wasn't a good idea for the Eurozone, and it's a terrible idea for the UK. Or England. Witless in the extreme.
|
|
|
|
Post by shevii on Jul 7, 2023 8:21:09 GMT
Some of the crowd are on the pitch- they think it is all over... well it is now:
Patrick Maguire
@patrickkmaguire
·
1h
Labour lead at 25 points in latest YouGov poll for The Times
CON 22 (-2)
LAB 47 (+1)
LIB DEM 9 (-1)
REF UK 9 (+1)
GREEN 7 (=)
Fieldwork 5-6 July
|
|
|
|
Post by alec on Jul 7, 2023 8:22:14 GMT
Who needs smoky, noisey fireworks -
|
|
steve
Member
Posts: 12,638
|
Post by steve on Jul 7, 2023 8:28:30 GMT
barbaraEntirely agree with your points about MP's and power. Any idea why then around 45% of Labour mps and the majority of lib dems and several dozen Tories who are female don't seem to find the temptations overwhelming? Serious question. My opinion is women in the work place te in most circumstances to be more professional and in Westminster case they are less likely to be privileged aging public schoolboy piss heads who think they are gods gift to their young co workers.
|
|
Mr Poppy
Member
Teaching assistant and now your elected PM
Posts: 3,774
|
Post by Mr Poppy on Jul 7, 2023 8:34:13 GMT
I think it would make a lot of sense to have London (Greater London?) as one of the units in a British federation - it's plenty big enough in terms of population, has distinct cultural and commercial identities and would dominate any other state it was included in. I'm never sure how real the 'natural boundary' problem would be, in practice. I'm sure some people would get very exercised if England ceased to be a unit of governance, by mismatches between regional identity and political region/state boundaries, by infelicities in the naming of the new states, but would it be a significant number or a tiny minority? An off-the-top-of-my-head list of factors we could include in a hypothetical boundary-drawing algorithm: population the number of major road and rail border crossings created economic homogeneity geographical features existing administrative boundaries regional cultural identity Yorkshire might seem like a natural unit, but for most purposes it's usually split and/or has bits of other counties bundled in with it. In some instances West Yorkshire gets bundled into a 'North West' unit with Lancashire... So long as we can have a hard border on the M1 somewhere around Watford Gap I'll be happy. 😁 We could turn Watford Gap services into a border crossing point to collect taxes, exchange currency**, etc between the two renewed Kingdoms* of Mercia and Essex. I'm not fussy exactly where the new arbitrary line is drawn having already offered to give you Peterborough. How about I throw in everything West of the Great Ouse river as well? * You can have Charles, we'll take Wills ** For those without a Revolut card or similar (I hear some folks still pay stupid fees to exchange currencies and happy to help fools being easily departed from their money) |
|
Danny
Member
Posts: 10,362
|
Post by Danny on Jul 7, 2023 8:34:19 GMT
@danny "In a way this seems rather like the debate on sexual harassment, issues have become muddled and polarised' Not sure what you are getting at there with your comparison It seems very clear to me sexual harassment is wrong, I'm not at all muddled about that and I suspect the large majority aren't either That is a fine sentiment, but it misses the point, which is the definition of what constitutes sexual harassment. I havnt been following the pincher case, but now having a quick look at the report, "12. The complainant describes the incident as having been traumatic and having impacted his wellbeing.". Specifically pincher had in turn and with breaks between grapped his arm, stroked his neck and pinched his bottom. I'm a bit concerned about why this is 'traumatic and impacted his wellbeing'. Next we have another guy at the same event who said "Mr Pincher moved away from the group, then returned and touched the witness’s bottom before moving his hand to touch and squeeze the witness’s testicles, which lasted for a few seconds;" Obviously pincher was making quite a night of this. However "The witness told the Commissioner that this incident affected his health and wellbeing and caused him concern for his future work prospects." Like seriously? more than this happened to me at school, and no one batted an eye. I dont think it should have, but we have moved from a situation where this sort of behaviour is regarded as normal and even part of growing up, to it being a horror scarring you for life. Its like the polarised debate between those who believe a vaccine can never be bad and those who believe it can do no good. It sounds like Pincher was drunk and had rather forgotten what sort of club he was in, because in some others such behaviour might be welcomed. I dont know more about the circumstances, whether Pincher's demeanour came across as threatening which is rather to the point. He seems simply to have come across as drunk, based on the witnesses statements. Witnesses claim to have been fearful because Pincher was in a position of authority and might damage their careers, but that strikes me as deeply weird. Realistically they were at no risk from declining homosexual advances. Especially when the person concerned was off his head and everything in front of witnesses in a public place. What might lie behind that is a massive culture of nepotism within politics, where everyone believes that talent will not get them to the top. Rather they must ascend through favours, and maybe this wasnt the sort of favour they were inclined to give. If thats true then Pincher isnt to blame for their fear. Rather he has become a scapegoat because he did this openly and blatantly, rather than privately, subtley and succesfully. It isnt possible for those people to have feared for their futures as they claim unless this is simply an example of how the system works, and this particular favour didnt appeal to them.
I dont believe the people present were so innocent they had never experienced anything like this. The only difference is whether the behaviour was welcomed or not. Their stated mental scarring seems far more likely to have been invented because it was a necessary part of making a complaint, the need to big up the horror of it. The committe stress in their judgement how this harm to those concerned was very important in their decision.
The committe seems to have regarded this incident as more important than Johnson and his parties. They gave a bigger punishment. Which is quite absurd. Johnson was guilty of massive hypocrisy in a way which truly undermined the reputation of parliament. Lying to parliament is technically supposed to be the most serious crime in the book. What it really illustrates is that the majority in parliament saw advantage in disciplining Johnson after his fall from power. And in dsiciplining Pincher about a matter which was wholly unrelated to politics, and therfore a diversion from just about everything that is going wrong. They felt they might look good attacking Pincher so they went over the top, as is usual with scapegoats. Pincher isnt to blame that MPs wield influence, they always have. And this is an example where no real power was exercised. Pincher is simply a deflection away from the wider behaviour of all MPs and the political establishment.
|
|
|
|
Post by crossbat11 on Jul 7, 2023 8:35:27 GMT
Some of the crowd are on the pitch- they think it is all over... well it is now: Patrick Maguire @patrickkmaguire · 1h Labour lead at 25 points in latest YouGov poll for The Times CON 22 (-2) LAB 47 (+1) LIB DEM 9 (-1) REF UK 9 (+1) GREEN 7 (=) Fieldwork 5-6 July Has Anthony Wells left YouGov by now? If he hasn't, he probably soon will! Just developing your World Cup 1966 theme, who are our Bobby Moore and Geoff Hurst in your metaphorical tale? Who played the killer 60 yard pass and then who rifled the ball into the roof of the net? And who is our Russian linesman too who ensured the crucial third goal was allowed. Sue Gray, perhaps? |
|
|
|
Post by crossbat11 on Jul 7, 2023 8:38:00 GMT
SOUTH LANARKSHIRE East Kilbride West (first preferences) WILLIAMS, Kirsty (Scottish Labour Party) 1,386 (40.3% +13.7) DORRIAN, Bill (Scottish Conservative and Unionist) 904 (26.3% +6.3) GILLIES, Robert (Scottish National Party (SNP)) 778 (22.6% -8.3) EADIE, Cameron (Scottish Greens - Think Global Act Local) 131 (3.8%) KEANE, Kristofer (Independent) 99 (2.9%) STEVENSON, Jake (Scottish Liberal Democrats) 83 (2.4% +0.3) RICHARDSON, Jonathan Jack (Scottish Family Party) 42 (1.2% -0.4) Labour elected at 6th stage. Labour gain from SNP. Old Nat and his shotgun rider Hireton may suspect electoral fraud at play here. |
|
Mr Poppy
Member
Teaching assistant and now your elected PM
Posts: 3,774
|
Post by Mr Poppy on Jul 7, 2023 8:38:23 GMT
Some of the crowd are on the pitch- they think it is all over... well it is now: Patrick Maguire @patrickkmaguire · 1h Labour lead at 25 points in latest YouGov poll for The Times CON 22 (-2) LAB 47 (+1) LIB DEM 9 (-1) REF UK 9 (+1) GREEN 7 (=) Fieldwork 5-6 July Congrats to LAB taking 1pt from LDEM and to RUK taking 1pt (+rounding) from CON. Can you post the number of seats each party won in the GE that I seem to have missed y'day. |
|
neilj
Member
Posts: 6,390
|
Post by neilj on Jul 7, 2023 8:38:51 GMT
More polling bad news for Sunak
'A year after Johnson quit, just 1 in 4 of voters think Sunak is any better
@yougov
poll for
@timesradio
shows more 2019 Tory voters think he is worse than better.
|
|
neilj
Member
Posts: 6,390
|
Post by neilj on Jul 7, 2023 8:43:08 GMT
@danny
I disagree with you fundamentally, stroking and pinching another person's bottom without consent is definitely a big no no
Certainly from my background if anyone had tried that down my local working mens club it would of resulted in a smack in the gob
The situation is made worse by the fact the victims are normally in subservient position to the sex offender
|
|
|
|
Post by barbara on Jul 7, 2023 8:47:24 GMT
barbara Entirely agree with your points about MP's and power. Any idea why then around 45% of Labour mps and the majority of lib dems and several dozen Tories who are female don't seem to find the temptations overwhelming? Serious question. My opinion is women in the work place te in most circumstances to be more professional and in Westminster case they are less likely to be privileged aging public schoolboy piss heads who think they are gods gift to their young co workers. Culture I suspect. Political correctness or 'woke' or whatever this week's derogatory word for it is, is much more prevalent in the Labour Party, as you'd expect in line with their views and policies on equality for all so tolerance levels are lower. People who are immersed in the culture of left and left centre politics often come from more modest backgrounds so their sense of entitlement is less, their schooling is more likely to have been in a mixed school alongside good female role models as well as men, casual misogyny and racism would be less likely to be tolerated in the party and among MPs. The Labour Party has stronger women's networks so lots of support for women in the party. Also they will attract a different type of staff I expect, those who want to support the party and its policies and come from a more activist background so less tolerant of inappropriate behaviour whereas the prevalence of internships in the Tory Party my attract young people for different reasons. (This last bit is pure speculation of course.) Obviously this is a generalisation but given that most MPs of all parties don't sexually assault their staff and colleagues, we're talking about what might influence behaviours of the minority and my guess would be different cultures, expectations and party mores. |
|
