steve
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Post by steve on Jul 6, 2023 21:36:43 GMT
Why is it that MP's particularly but not exclusively Tory MP's find it so difficult not to sexually molest people at work?
I spent decades at work like tens of millions of others not sexually molesting my junior work colleagues.
Is it something to do with fee charging schools?
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Post by expatr on Jul 6, 2023 21:48:42 GMT
Why is it that MP's particularly but not exclusively Tory MP's find it so difficult not to sexually molest people at work? I spent decades at work like tens of millions of others not sexually molesting my junior work colleagues. Is it something to do with fee charging schools? It is very very odd
I can count on the fingers of one hand the instances of sexually inappropriate behaviour I've seen in the office (and in the last 15 years literally none at all). And what seems to be common in the Commons is not just inappropriate/ harassing behaviour, but literally sexual assault, which I've never come across.
I may of course be really naive and innocent
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Post by eor on Jul 6, 2023 22:00:42 GMT
Why is it that MP's particularly but not exclusively Tory MP's find it so difficult not to sexually molest people at work? Power, patronage, secrecy, privacy and alcohol are a lethal combination. Also a relatively unusual one in workplaces - probably not a coincidence that #metoo started in film-making. |
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Post by mercian on Jul 6, 2023 22:08:42 GMT
I live in London and I'm fed up of being governed from Westminster too, which although geographically in London does not represent London's views. I would be quite happy with Yorkshire as an equal partner in a federal system if I could have London as one of the partners. London voted Remain in 2016 (I still have my Britain Stronger In Europe T-shirt from the campaign). There are other natural units for a federal system including Cornwall, although for much of England it is difficult to draw natural borders. I think it would make a lot of sense to have London (Greater London?) as one of the units in a British federation - it's plenty big enough in terms of population, has distinct cultural and commercial identities and would dominate any other state it was included in. I'm never sure how real the 'natural boundary' problem would be, in practice. I'm sure some people would get very exercised if England ceased to be a unit of governance, by mismatches between regional identity and political region/state boundaries, by infelicities in the naming of the new states, but would it be a significant number or a tiny minority? An off-the-top-of-my-head list of factors we could include in a hypothetical boundary-drawing algorithm: population the number of major road and rail border crossings created economic homogeneity geographical features existing administrative boundaries regional cultural identity Yorkshire might seem like a natural unit, but for most purposes it's usually split and/or has bits of other counties bundled in with it. In some instances West Yorkshire gets bundled into a 'North West' unit with Lancashire... So long as we can have a hard border on the M1 somewhere around Watford Gap I'll be happy. 😁 |
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Post by crossbat11 on Jul 6, 2023 22:08:56 GMT
expatr/steve
The severity and frequency of these sexual offences in Parliament does seem inexplicable but I wonder if there are a number of special factors at play here. It is not a remotely typical workplace.
Opportunity, the key precursor of all crimes, must be one. The working hours, the chance to work in close proximity to people who may defer to their authority and hierarchical power over them, men (mainly) away from their homes and families for days on end and the age of many of the male (mainly) MPs who still live in antediluvian moral times where misogynistic attitudes were the norm.
Then you get into cliche country. Politics is show business for ugly people and the Commons is a glorified public school full of overgrown adolescent upper middle class twits.
But cliches always have an element of truth about them.
[b
P.S. I didn't see eor's post before I submitted mine. He puts it better than I did.
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Post by mercian on Jul 6, 2023 22:10:06 GMT
Just been watching a program about Kenneth Williams, which features clips from his career. Just saw a comedy sketch where he jokes about not being able to pick someone up because he weighed over 13 stone. Average male weight in UK nowadays, 13.5 stone. Funny how jokes can go out of date. Mr Williams was pretty weedy. |
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Post by expatr on Jul 6, 2023 22:19:01 GMT
expatr/steve The severity and frequency of these sexual offences in Parliament does seem inexplicable but I wonder if there are a number of special factors at play here. It is not a remotely typical workplace. Opportunity, the key precursor of all crimes, must be one. The working hours, the chance to work in close proximity to people who may defer to their authority and hierarchical power over them, men (mainly) away from their homes and families for days on end and the age of many of the male (mainly) MPs who still live in antediluvian moral times where misogynistic attitudes were the norm. Then you get into cliche country. Politics is show business for ugly people and the Commons is a glorified public school full of overgrown adolescent upper middle class twits. But cliches always have an element of truth about them. [b P.S. I didn't see eor's post before I submitted mine. He puts it better than I did. I think all that is true and certainly explains the harassment end of this - the horny, entitled and drunk - yep definitely
There does seem something of going beyond making a nuisance of yourself (which I am not trying to underplay the importance of) and some of what is described which is simply Trumpian/Savileian levels of assault - hand up skirt as soon as you see someone you like type of thing - beyond human frailty and opportunity into something much darker. Beyond not taking no for an answer and into just not bothering to ask.
Going to shut up now as this is difficult to articulate without sounding like an antediluvian misogynist thug.
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steve
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Post by steve on Jul 6, 2023 22:24:06 GMT
The antivax conspiracy theorist democrat that MAGA's love. And he's running against Biden. youtu.be/l0f3yZ9jJPY |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2023 22:28:00 GMT
UK 10-year gilt yield now just a sliver under 4.5%, and perilously close to 'peak Truss' level of 4.643%. Last August, it stood at 1.7%, so now more than 2.5 times that level. The 2-year gilt yield, influential for mortgage pricing, is now 5.374%. Last August, it was 1.56%. Yikes. It's been quite a busy day news-wise, so it might not have been widely reported that the UK 10-year gilt yield, with all its implications for UK government borrowing costs, closed today *higher* than at 'peak Truss', at 4.659%. That's going to really start limiting HMG economic room for manoeuvre if it carries on at that sort of level for long. www.marketwatch.com/investing/bond/tmbmkgb-10y?countrycode=bx |
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Post by mercian on Jul 6, 2023 22:29:18 GMT
expatr/steve The severity and frequency of these sexual offences in Parliament does seem inexplicable but I wonder if there are a number of special factors at play here. It is not a remotely typical workplace. Opportunity, the key precursor of all crimes, must be one. The working hours, the chance to work in close proximity to people who may defer to their authority and hierarchical power over them, men (mainly) away from their homes and families for days on end and the age of many of the male (mainly) MPs who still live in antediluvian moral times where misogynistic attitudes were the norm. Then you get into cliche country. Politics is show business for ugly people and the Commons is a glorified public school full of overgrown adolescent upper middle class twits.But cliches always have an element of truth about them. [b P.S. I didn't see eor's post before I submitted mine. He puts it better than I did. I assume that you're hinting that the offenders are all Tories. I give you Mike Hill (Lab), Chris Bryant (Lab). Ron Hill (Lab) for instance. Not saying that there aren't more Tories, but it's not just them. |
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oldnat
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Post by oldnat on Jul 6, 2023 22:29:30 GMT
“ The falsity of argument lies with you.” Blimey. 
Blimey. |
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steve
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Post by steve on Jul 6, 2023 22:34:43 GMT
There was a time before 2016 when the sight of politicians and their media mouthpieces describing senior members of the judiciary in deranged pejorative terms would have been anathema then came Brexit and Mango Mussolini and we had " enemies of the people" and the most outrageous of allegations from the mobster in the Whitehouse.
Today number 45 described special prosecutor Jack Smith as " an insane crack head".
And we've gone so far down the rabbit hole that it's just another Thursday.
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steve
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Post by steve on Jul 6, 2023 22:39:19 GMT
mercian I think you will find Bryant was the victim of sexual assault not the perpetrator. Bit of victim blaming going on there or have you just misremebered By the way there's no Labour mp called Ron Hill
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2023 23:07:44 GMT
“ The falsity of argument lies with you.” Blimey.
Blimey. Well, you presume incorrectly. I was merely amused by your pomposity -  - had no interest in the actual argument at all. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2023 23:59:20 GMT
Having watched Johnny Mercer's performance on Question Time this evening, I think he should have stuck to his former career as a wonderful songwriter, as demonstrated here by the delightful Leslie Caron and the incomparable Fred Astaire. youtu.be/Q7CAkXD2Sjs |
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oldnat
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Post by oldnat on Jul 7, 2023 0:04:38 GMT
That adding "oracy" as a new element in the English state school curriculum is more useful terminology than "Listening and Speaking", I would doubt, but that embedding communication skills in the core curriculum is advantageous is unquestionable. I hadn't realised that it wasn't already there in England.
In days of yore, when I was a lad, the development of such skills seemed to be restricted to those who had been in private schools, so I can understand why Starmer seems to be phrasing the reform in terms of overcoming class barriers in England.
When studying comparative education, it was always notable that a major difference between the Scots and English systems of establishing curricular models was that, in England, Education Secretaries became so involved in the detail of the curriculum. Whether under administrative or legislative devolution that was never the case. Curricular changes were developed as a consensus among professionals - although the structures were politically determined.
Hence, in 1986, when Thatcher had appointed the Secretary of State for Scotland, and Standard Grade was introduced as the terminal exams for school leavers, they didn't get involved with the detail of the curriculum, and accepted the professional consensus that Listening and Speaking would be one of the 3 key elements in the curriculum for English. When the SLab/SLD Executive introduced Curriculum for Excellence, again there was no specification by politicians as to the curricular content - that was a matter for professionals to determine, and Listening and Talking are embedded across the curriculum.
No polity's systems are necessarily better than any others, and the English electorate may consider that having politicians decide the detail of the curriculum for their kids is OK.
Those elsewhere may consider such an approach odd - even potentially dangerous.
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oldnat
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Post by oldnat on Jul 7, 2023 0:09:51 GMT
I presume that your response indicates a belief that "ejecting the Tories" equates to the UK having a majority Labour Government.
Blimey. Well, you presume incorrectly. I was merely amused by your pomposity - - had no interest in the actual argument at all. |
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steve
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Post by steve on Jul 7, 2023 5:16:27 GMT
Mick Lynch is clearly an effective trade union leader. However when it comes to Brexit he has tunnel vision and is totally on the wrong track. His assertion that the European union is privatizing all railways in Europe is total bollocks, the largest rail companies in Germany and Spain are both 100% state owned. We had a mechanism to prevent the abuse of workers that Lynch rails against, he voted and supported a catastrophic decision that made it easier instead. He comes from that far left tradition that decided the European union was a capitalist conspiracy and any amount of evidence that it isn't isn't going to change his factless preconceptions. youtu.be/GZD47p_7cjA |
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Jul 7, 2023 5:56:25 GMT
Why is it that MP's particularly but not exclusively Tory MP's find it so difficult not to sexually molest people at work? I spent decades at work like tens of millions of others not sexually molesting my junior work colleagues. Is it something to do with fee charging schools? I'm not sure that being a responsible police officer as a career would put you in the same position regarding understanding what is and isnt legal as most occupations? What is very obvious is that attitudes regarding male-female interactions (ie I mean sexual) have changed very much over my lifetime. Woman's hour this week was talking about how men are becoming increasingly resentful about feminatzis. WH approached this as being a real problem for men growing up now, and the angle that they need to be in a stronger position. Quite interesting that they took the line matters may have gone too far. Judges are trained to be utterly disparaging of people found guilty, which always seems a little absurd when its a case of someone who ten years later is eventually exhonerated. But people have started using these same terms about events which fundamentally should not be especially serious. There was recent publicity about a woman who felt obliged to sit on some MPs lap- I know what a friend of mine of similar age to myself would have said when she was once a civil servant, would have told him not to be ridiculous and that would have been the end of the matter. What should be simply resolved has escalated to become a matter of crime and punishment. |
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Jul 7, 2023 5:59:05 GMT
If this is anywhere near right it will be quite something
Non twitter users
NEW in
@yorkshirepost
:
@jlpartnerspolls
of Selby by-election for
@38degrees
💥 Labour set to win by 12 points
💥 Lab 41% (+16), Con 29% (-31)
💥 1 in 4 still undecided
💥 @tmlbk: “if the results are replicated it would be the 2nd largest swing in a Con-Lab by-election”
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Jul 7, 2023 6:01:40 GMT
I see MPs are becoming exercised about their local train ticket office closing. Last time I bought a ticket, the ticket machine did not work. When I then tried the ticket office, its a medium size station, the guy there said yes, it was always breaking down and was often repaired but for some reason they couldnt fix it properly.
An awful lot of people will not be able to get tickets, because while closing ticket offices might become inevitable on grounds of economy, the ticket machines do not work and do not provide a full range of tickets, and the underlying problem behind that of there being a far too complicated range of tickets seems to be unresolveable for reasons of the contracts made with private operators. Plus lack of will to ropen the whole problem of funding and service standards.
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Jul 7, 2023 6:06:37 GMT
More strikes in the education sectore. meanwhile the government is sitting on a report from the not so independent salary advisor to give a 6.5% rise which is more than they are offering. Unresolved is how even this recommendation can be funded from fixed schools budgets. But just like with doctors and nurses, the cry is the whole sector needs big pay increases to make it competitive to attract staff. Although also as with the NHS, working conditions are not attractive either. Who wants to be sworn at and threatened daily by kids? I mean seriously, who would want to do it?
Thing is though, this is starting to look like government has wholly lost control of its wage bill. Even the systems it has put in place to screw down wages are starting to say wages need to rise. Behind this is the war between rich and poor over who gets the parger share of total wages paid in the UK. Or alternatively, the amount of payment in kind which the poor receive in terms of good free schools, good health care, cheap water and fuel, cheap housing. Which did all used to be provided by government. The rationale behind tory policy of privatisation is not whether the state is more or less efficient at providing services, but that state services are a transfer of wealth from rich to poor and that is the opposite of their policy.
Time was, this policy could guarantee a parliamentary majority because people like teachers were on the rich side of this equation. Now they arent. Wealth has concentrated more and more into fewer hands.
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Jul 7, 2023 6:14:50 GMT
Just been watching a program about Kenneth Williams, which features clips from his career. Just saw a comedy sketch where he jokes about not being able to pick someone up because he weighed over 13 stone. Average male weight in UK nowadays, 13.5 stone. Funny how jokes can go out of date. Mr Williams was pretty weedy. Average weight gone up about 1.5 stone since then, although average height also gone up. If you were framing the joke today you would use a number which seemed big by average standards and very wide people are relatively common now. Yes, Williams was thin and no doubt that is why he was often paired with Hattie Jacques who was especially wide. In Williams time the lower average height suggests malnutrition rather than now obesity. |
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Jul 7, 2023 6:25:29 GMT
The antivax conspiracy theorist democrat that MAGA's love. And he's running against Biden. youtu.be/l0f3yZ9jJPYNot sure what a video about measles vaccinations has to do with anything? Except that it highlights some vaccines are very effective, in particular against diseases which cannot readily mutate. Whereas others are not so good. All vaccines have side effects, and obviously the balance of benefit to harm is much stronger for those that are really effective than those which arent. Covid vaccines have rather muddied the water here, because it was hoped they would come into the very effective group, but they didnt. In a way this seems rather like the debate on sexual harassment, issues have become muddled and polarised. |
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Jul 7, 2023 6:29:26 GMT
UK 10-year gilt yield now just a sliver under 4.5%, and perilously close to 'peak Truss' level of 4.643%. Last August, it stood at 1.7%, so now more than 2.5 times that level. The 2-year gilt yield, influential for mortgage pricing, is now 5.374%. Last August, it was 1.56%. Yikes. It's been quite a busy day news-wise, so it might not have been widely reported that the UK 10-year gilt yield, with all its implications for UK government borrowing costs, closed today *higher* than at 'peak Truss', at 4.659%. That's going to really start limiting HMG economic room for manoeuvre if it carries on at that sort of level for long. www.marketwatch.com/investing/bond/tmbmkgb-10y?countrycode=bxTellingly the chap found to talk about this on news this morning talked about world interest rates rising. basically, if the rest of the world brought their interest rates up to this level, then the UK had no choice at all except to follow. So whether rising interest is good or bad, it was an american decision. Its hard to tell whether other bankers agreed with it, or simply put on a public face that they did. Its rather reminiscent of how the gold standard was a marvellous thing...untill it wasnt. |
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steve
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Post by steve on Jul 7, 2023 6:31:03 GMT
Danny
It has to do with jfk. jr the subject of the video, He advocated the utterly bogus theory that the measles vaccine was killing people as a result of the fall in uptake from 90% to 40% in just a few years and the slow response of the Samoan government, endorsed by JFK jr 84 people mostly children died needlessly from Measles.
I never mentioned covid.
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Jul 7, 2023 6:32:22 GMT
There was a time before 2016 when the site of politicians and their media mouthpieces describing senior members of the judiciary in deranged pejorative terms would have been anathema then came Brexit and Mango Mussolini and we had " enemies of the people" and the most outrageous of allegations from the mobster in the Whitehouse. Today number 45 described special prosecutor Jack Smith as " an insane crack head". And we've gone so far down the rabbit hole that it's just another Thursday. This all looks like the consequences of imposing a two party system on a society which has many more than two sides. Eventually more and more people become disenchanted, and the winner becomes the person holding the largest minority support. Which can be a set of nut jobs. Consensus is no longer a winnig strategy, so politicians dont go for it. |
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Dave
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... I'm dreaming dreams, I'm scheming schemes, I'm building castles high ..
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Post by Dave on Jul 7, 2023 6:54:25 GMT
If this is anywhere near right it will be quite something Non twitter users NEW in @yorkshirepost : @jlpartnerspolls of Selby by-election for @38degrees 💥 Labour set to win by 12 points 💥 Lab 41% (+16), Con 29% (-31) 💥 1 in 4 still undecided 💥 @tmlbk: “if the results are replicated it would be the 2nd largest swing in a Con-Lab by-election” For some time, I’ve been a member of the ‘there’s-no-coming-back-from-where-they-are-now’ camp when it comes to the general election and the Tories. If this ^^^ comes to pass then it would bring even more people into that camp. It would be the sort of political event that gets noticed even by the largely unpolitical. Another rock around Sunak’s neck turning likelihoods into certainties, as more and more come to expect a change of government. And that’s a different mind-set and dynamic than many of us just continuously hoping for that. These days are passing. Thank f**k. |
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Jul 7, 2023 6:58:52 GMT
@danny
"In a way this seems rather like the debate on sexual harassment, issues have become muddled and polarised'
Not sure what you are getting at there with your comparison
It seems very clear to me sexual harassment is wrong, I'm not at all muddled about that and I suspect the large majority aren't either
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Post by jimjam on Jul 7, 2023 7:00:47 GMT
Re Selby,
Based on national polls at the time of the resignation, applying proportionate swing adjusted for Tory By-Election slippage and tactical voting, I suggested that anything short of a victory by at least 5% would actually be disappointing for Labour.
Since that time Labours' lead over the Tories has widened so a victory of just over 10% would not be surprising and in line with the adjusted national picture.
Off there tomorrow for a days campaigning which will be interesting as my first time campaigning in a solid 'Tory' seat.
Wakefield was about getting former Labour voters back or at least not voting Tory so I will be intrigued to see what the messaging is tomorrow when briefed.
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- had no interest in the actual argument at all.