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Post by wb61 on Apr 26, 2023 9:19:50 GMT
Each person's choice is obviously their own but I won't be engaging in the "If he is/isn't banned I'll leave" stuff. My interest is in #3. It does seem within LAB (and possibly the broader LoC community) that a "hierarchy" is used when implementing rules (as Abbott has found out). If different rules are used for different groups of people, depending on their political views, then whilst technically that might not be "discrimination" then the site will likely just become an "echo chamber" - which is perhaps the desire of the people who launched the "Cancel mercian " campaign? But you know the answer to 3 ! Different rules are applied. Look at the pearl clutching agonised hand wringing over Abbott. This is a club you & I & Mercian will never be a member of, which has no interest in our opinions. You can waste hours on end trying to influence its "rules" -or pop in occasionally to get something off your chest- or just read the polling stuff. Trying to persuade them of your opinion on anything-let alone their rules-is pointless. Doesn't that apply to all with fixed political allegiances, I have not noticed any tendency for ROC to be convinced by argument on here either! |
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Post by Rafwan on Apr 26, 2023 9:27:08 GMT
Anyway, I shall leave you all in peace for the rest of the day. Finishing work early and then I'm off to Arsenal's ground to see West Ham's kids beat them in the FA Youth Cup Final. Come on you irons as we say! And didn’t they do well!!👍🏼👏🏻 |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2023 9:32:23 GMT
Doesn't that apply to all with fixed political allegiances, I have not noticed any tendency for ROC to be convinced by argument on here either! Whilst I agree that the site is visited by people of strongly held political views and is therefore polarised in general, individuals matter. So I can't speak for "ROC"-only myself. There is a small number of loc contributors whose opinions i respect and value . Though mainly on polling matters it has to be said. But I agree that most loc opinions on here are far removed from my own-and vice versa of course ! |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2023 9:57:49 GMT
How many racist things do you have to say or do to convince you that you are a racist? I see that your habit of infrequency is overcome by the opportunity for a bit of self important sanctimony . All a bit cryptic. I see that you are still going to vote Tory despite them completely fucking up the country? Must be getting difficult to justify now, even for you |
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
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Post by pjw1961 on Apr 26, 2023 10:26:30 GMT
Some interesting polling on a slightly different question.
Public opinion towards the [X] brand:
LAB: 37% positive / 35% negative
GRN: 28% / 31%
LDEM: 23% / 36%
CON: 20% / 52%
REF: 13% / 38%
via
@ipsosuk
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
Posts: 8,572
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Post by pjw1961 on Apr 26, 2023 10:30:18 GMT
Some interesting polling on a slightly different question. Public opinion towards the [X] brand: LAB: 37% positive / 35% negative GRN: 28% / 31% LDEM: 23% / 36% CON: 20% / 52% REF: 13% / 38% via @ipsosuk Listed above in order of the 'positive' percentage. If you did it by least negatives it would be Green, Labour, Lib Dem, RefUK, Conservative And by net difference: Labour +2, Green -3, Lib Dem -13, Ref -25, Con -32 |
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Post by shevii on Apr 26, 2023 11:00:19 GMT
PS I thought Corbyn has actually apologised as well, although it was 'late' and he attached a load of caveats about the whole case against him being overblown? LAB is not my party and North Islington is not my constituency of course but like Corbyn, then Abbott can stand in the next GE if she wants to - either as the LAB candidate or as an Ind (or as a party that has 2 current MPs, possibly more before GE'24?) He has indeed apologised for antisemitism in the Labour Party on several occasions and Newsnight had to issue an apology/correction for saying he hadn't. Then yesterday another BBC news presenter repeated the allegation that he hadn't apologised for antisemitism in the Labour Party- you begin to wonder about the quality of their journalists when they haven't clocked the original correction which must have been fairly high profile within the organisation and then repeat the allegation. What I don't think he has apologised for are his words that the extent of antisemitism in the Labour Party was overstated for political purposes (maybe a half way house apology along the lines of didn't intend to cause upset). This is an undeniable statement of fact to my mind, although it wasn't helpful in terms of putting the issue to bed and moving on. However given the ongoing Corbyn pile on it is probably reasonable that he did put perspective on this because opponents remain determined to paint him as antisemitic when he's not and when there are numerous examples in his career of him supporting Jewish causes. The crime was not getting to grips with the problem as a leader should do. The mitigation being that the right wing in charge of complaints procedures when this all started (operating under a factionalist mindset) made it difficult for him and the left wing did not help by dismissing any and all allegations as manufactured. |
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Mr Poppy
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Post by Mr Poppy on Apr 26, 2023 11:05:21 GMT
Each person's choice is obviously their own but I won't be engaging in the "If he is/isn't banned I'll leave" stuff. My interest is in #3. It does seem within LAB (and possibly the broader LoC community) that a "hierarchy" is used when implementing rules (as Abbott has found out). If different rules are used for different groups of people, depending on their political views, then whilst technically that might not be "discrimination" then the site will likely just become an "echo chamber" - which is perhaps the desire of the people who launched the "Cancel mercian " campaign? But you know the answer to 3 ! Different rules are applied. Look at the pearl clutching agonised hand wringing over Abbott. This is a club you & I & Mercian will never be a member of, which has no interest in our opinions. You can waste hours on end trying to influence its "rules" -or pop in occasionally to get something off your chest- or just read the polling stuff. Trying to persuade them of your opinion on anything-let alone their rules-is pointless. I have an opinion on what the answer to #3 is but I want to see it be either a/ confirmed or b/ denied In the case of b/ denied, then evidence for why my suspicion of moderator 'bias' is unfounded. There is still the possibility that the 'Mercian 1' simply took a night off. I have no need or desire to persuade anyone of my opinion on any subject. Everyone is entitled to an opinion and discussion on some subjects with some people is completely pointless - which is why I don't bother with certain people (although I'll operate a 'clean slate' approach on the new thread on the off chance that some people that I ignore on this thread actually want to engage in a discussion - everyone deserves a second/third/fourth chance once enough time has elapsed) I doubt anyone on this forum would change their opinion on most issues (although there is probably a lot of somersaults going on WRT to something like Abbott v Starmer on the 'hierarchy'* of discrimination) * Some LW LAB types seem to believe that Starmer's hierarchy (ie anti-semitism is the most important form of racism) is based on who is, or might, be funding Starmer-LAB - noting the return of Mandelson and others in the shadows of the shadow cabinet. Some of the usual ' Animal Manor Farm' analogies being made and I appreciate most of the LW of LAB never wanted Starmer as leader in the first place. twitter.com/hashtag/IStandWithDianeAbbott? |
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Mr Poppy
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Post by Mr Poppy on Apr 26, 2023 11:15:04 GMT
AFAIK only Mark is responsible for enforcing the site rules - not you or anyone else I'm not sure what mercian has said to upset people but if you've decided to make yourself moderator then is there anyone else you want to call out - or are you just picking on someone you don't like? IIRC then Mark did recently say he'd be taking a tougher line on flaming (trolling) but then he also said he start a new thread and no sign of that either. Once again I'll suggest a new general thread is started (maybe take y'days R&W) and that everyone gets a 'clean slate' and we can see if we drag this site out of the gutter. I don't mind chucking a few rocks back every now and then but it is a bit 🥱 and surely most people would prefer to discuss polling (or specific issues on the Issue Specific threads)? In the mean time if you would like to supply a "Woke-pedia" for likes of mercian and myself so we don't upset anyone then please do. Ta muchly.  I'm just quoting the rules that Mark set up at the beginning of this board. If you don't like them, you and mercian can always set up another board with your own rules. As you have spotted then I have set up a new general thread, as per the rules of this site, and will applying my own rules for who I engage with on that thread - giving everyone a clean slate. Just one example of where someone can take an opinion/suggestion from someone on the other side of the political divide I expect a lot of people will simply continue posting even polling discussion on this thread given it was me (and not someone they like) who set up the new general thread - which makes its own subtle point as well of course |
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pjw1961
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Post by pjw1961 on Apr 26, 2023 11:16:21 GMT
PS I thought Corbyn has actually apologised as well, although it was 'late' and he attached a load of caveats about the whole case against him being overblown? LAB is not my party and North Islington is not my constituency of course but like Corbyn, then Abbott can stand in the next GE if she wants to - either as the LAB candidate or as an Ind (or as a party that has 2 current MPs, possibly more before GE'24?) He has indeed apologised for antisemitism in the Labour Party on several occasions and Newsnight had to issue an apology/correction for saying he hadn't. Then yesterday another BBC news presenter repeated the allegation that he hadn't apologised for antisemitism in the Labour Party- you begin to wonder about the quality of their journalists when they haven't clocked the original correction which must have been fairly high profile within the organisation and then repeat the allegation. What I don't think he has apologised for are his words that the extent of antisemitism in the Labour Party was overstated for political purposes (maybe a half way house apology along the lines of didn't intend to cause upset). This is an undeniable statement of fact to my mind, although it wasn't helpful in terms of putting the issue to bed and moving on. However given the ongoing Corbyn pile on it is probably reasonable that he did put perspective on this because opponents remain determined to paint him as antisemitic when he's not and when there are numerous examples in his career of him supporting Jewish causes. The crime was not getting to grips with the problem as a leader should do. The mitigation being that the right wing in charge of complaints procedures when this all started (operating under a factionalist mindset) made it difficult for him and the left wing did not help by dismissing any and all allegations as manufactured. An eminently fair summation of that unfortunate saga. |
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steve
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Post by steve on Apr 26, 2023 11:20:48 GMT
The regime patting itself on the back about recruiting 20,000 new police officers.
Of course in reality the number of police officers is lower than it was under the last Labour government and 40%+ of officers have less than five years experience and are unable to fill the specialist and supervisory roles required.
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
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Post by pjw1961 on Apr 26, 2023 11:21:27 GMT
I expect a lot of people will simply continue posting even polling discussion on this thread given it was me (and not someone they like) who set up the new general thread - which makes its own subtle point as well of course I am not going to post on Trevor's thread not because he set it up but because it runs the risk of creating two threads with different people posting on them and people therefore not seeing things. I happen to agree that it is time for a new thread, but I will wait for Mark to set it up (and hopefully he might be able to transfer the posts on Trevor's across? I say, showing my technical ignorance). |
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Apr 26, 2023 11:23:19 GMT
Words far stronger than mmm are currently reflective of my feelings towards them. Despicable, just despicable. |
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Mr Poppy
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Post by Mr Poppy on Apr 26, 2023 11:28:31 GMT
I think 'nody' was a typo but I've been called worse "3. Anynody can start a new thread. We would appreciate it if the threads (and thread names) were mainly for new polls, but, when an issue relative to polling comes up, a non polling thread will be allowed, but, please, do this sparingly.As the threads appear in the order they were last replied to, please start all threads with the current date. see other threads for the date format."From: ukpollingreport2.proboards.com/thread/5/general-rules-post-read |
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pjw1961
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Post by pjw1961 on Apr 26, 2023 11:37:35 GMT
Words far stronger than mmm are currently reflective of my feelings towards them. Despicable, just despicable. In fairness to the Conservatives they haven't done anything like that in Braintree - the Tory leaflets reference the need for ID, just as the other parties are doing. I'm guessing this might be an example of a local party going rogue rather than a plan from Conservative central office. Still very bad though. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2023 11:52:41 GMT
Braverman says illegal migrants have ‘values at odds with our country’ as MPs prepare to debate illegal migration bill. Bollocks they do, they do however have values at odds with crypto fascist Braverman. For which we should all be grateful. Some people might take issue with the use of the word "crypto" in this context |
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Post by alec on Apr 26, 2023 11:53:14 GMT
pjw1961- I would agree - I'd prefer for the site to be coordinated and have Mark set the new threads.
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Apr 26, 2023 12:01:54 GMT
Not looking god for voter ID registration How did they calculate 2 million people do not have the necessary ID to vote? Are these people even ON the voting register? |
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Apr 26, 2023 12:05:30 GMT
I reiterate, are you making the standard for acceptable behaviour being obedience of the current law? if so its a very dubious standard. In terms of real discrimination, some of the very greatest is in the form of immigration law. All those people who are very unfairly worse off than practically everyone who lives in the Uk who we refuse to allow to come here. If people do not accept that we quite deliberately engage in this discrimination then the debate about discrimination becomes meaningless. What we are doing to the boat people, what the government is seeking to do to them, is far far worse than anything Abbott has said. Border controls (or immigration policy) based on race as the entry criteria would be racist. Border controls based on other criteria which define a legal right to enter a particular country are not inherently racist. It is possible to be anti-racism and have border controls. I dont understand how its legal to bar French citizens from working in the UK, or barring Jews from working in the UK? (to use the Nazi example). Whereas Irish citizens can work in the UK. Thats simply discrimination based upon nationality.
Or are you saying that banning French people isnt racist because the French are not a defineable race? It must however be discrimination based upon a different trait, which surely brings us back to Abbott?
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Apr 26, 2023 12:07:30 GMT
Interest on UK Government Debt -2022/23 :- £106.6 billion – 47% higher than the previous year But how much of that is paid to BofE, who are presumably still simply returning it to the treasury? |
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
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Post by pjw1961 on Apr 26, 2023 12:07:58 GMT
Braverman says illegal migrants have ‘values at odds with our country’ as MPs prepare to debate illegal migration bill. Bollocks they do, they do however have values at odds with crypto fascist Braverman. For which we should all be grateful. Some people might take issue with the use of the word "crypto" in this context Suella Braverman has ‘values at odds with our country’, to borrow a phrase. |
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Apr 26, 2023 12:10:36 GMT
Some interesting polling on a slightly different question. Public opinion towards the [X] brand: LAB: 37% positive / 35% negative GRN: 28% / 31% LDEM: 23% / 36% CON: 20% / 52% REF: 13% / 38% via @ipsosuk Well the most striking result is the 52% negative for the conservative brand. |
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alurqa
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Post by alurqa on Apr 26, 2023 12:20:34 GMT
Have I missed something? Why is Mr Poppy (@ ceo) now called Mark (@ admin)?
Edit: as the consortium have changed their name again, just to make it clear @ ceo was called "Mark".
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
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Post by pjw1961 on Apr 26, 2023 12:25:59 GMT
Have I missed something? Why is Mr Poppy (@ ceo) now called Mark (@ admin)? @ ceo is Trevor I believe. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2023 12:26:23 GMT
Have I missed something? Why is Mr Poppy (@ ceo) now called Mark (@ admin)? I think I could hazard a guess. This is now getting completely ridiculous. |
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
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Post by pjw1961 on Apr 26, 2023 12:30:39 GMT
Have I missed something? Why is Mr Poppy (@ ceo) now called Mark (@ admin)? I think I could hazard a guess. This is now getting completely ridiculous. Ah yes, I see what he's done. I can only wonder what our real site admin will make of it. I would suggest a swift change back might be wise. |
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alurqa
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Post by alurqa on Apr 26, 2023 12:35:22 GMT
Have I missed something? Why is Mr Poppy (@ ceo) now called Mark (@ admin)? @ ceo is Trevor I believe. Yes, correct. It just looks to be like a deliberate attempt to be provocative. If you've got to pretend to be someone else, what does that say about you, I wonder? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2023 12:40:10 GMT
How embarrassing.
There are some seriously unmet needs on display today.
Short of some light-touch moderation and preferably a limit on numbers of posts (or something to make this page a bit less freaky) I'll be logging* off.
*Not flouncing.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2023 12:48:00 GMT
Interest on UK Government Debt -2022/23 :- £106.6 billion – 47% higher than the previous year But how much of that is paid to BofE, who are presumably still simply returning it to the treasury? Not sure. I think ONS put a limit on the relief to Deficit by that method. Conversely of course, HMT started making payments to BoE last year to fund losses on QE Gilts. As interest rates rise , and gilt prices fall , this funding will escalate. |
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Apr 26, 2023 12:48:38 GMT
Oh dear, how sad, never mind
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