General rules and how to post - please read

[Mark]

1. Hate speech (racism, misogyny, homophobia etc). is expressly forbidden. Those that do will get a warning. The most serious offenders will get kicked without warning.

2. No flaming or trolling other users. We understand that political discussion can be passionate at times, but, please keep it polite. When there are differences of opinion, argue the point, not the member posting it. Once again, offenders will be warned, repeat offenders will be kicked.

3. Anynody can start a new thread. We would appreciate it if the threads (and thread names) were mainly for new polls, but, when an issue relative to polling comes up, a non polling thread will be allowed, but, please, do this sparingly.

As the threads appear in the order they were last replied to, please start all threads with the current date. see other threads for the date format.

This will make it easy for all users to find the most recent threads in the event that older threads have recently been posted on.

4. This forum is about POLLING and, therefore, should be kept as non-partisan as possible.

The comments sections on most political blogs is either one sided, or dominated by petty political point scoring and tired rehersals of party political spin.

That is not what this forum is abou.

Therefore the rule in the comments section is that all comments should be made in the spirit of non-partisanship, to try and welcome all people here to discuss polls and politics like adults with a shared interest, despite supporting different parties.

This means that it is not a place for spinning, not a place for saying how much you hate party X and wish they would lose, nor it is a place for saying what party should win, or what the public should support.

We are interested in what will happen, what the public actually think, not what you think they should do.

Treat other commenters who don’t share your views with respect – it’s your chance to understand their point of view, not score points off them – and indeed, politicans from opposing parties with respect.

Comments that talk about Zanu-NuLab, one-eyed Scottish idiots and so on are not conducisive to the non-partisan sort of discussion we want here.

As a nice rule of thumb, think of it as a forum about politics, not a venue for politics.

If you see a comment from someone else that you think crosses over the line please do NOT respond with equally partisan rebuttals. If it is a new poster then please do welcome them, explain we don’t really do things that way round here. If it is someone who should know better, just ignore them: continuing a partisan argument is just as bad as starting it!

[Deleted]

Mark I'm not sure everyone has read the 'rules' but can we please start to see them enforced. Misogyny seems to be a particular issue at the moment and 'accidental' or 'joking' is IMO no excuse. Some comments are rightly seeking rebuke as it doesn't appear there is any attempt to enforce the rules.

I'm aware that anything I say on the main thread will only likely increase the belligerence from certain posters and I will not mention specific names but please can we some enforcement of the rules before UKPR2 descends into a cesspit of hate speech at which point a lot of folks will leave and/or the site should be shut down.

[leftieliberal]

Jan 16, 2022 11:26:26 GMT @tw said:

Mark  I'm not sure everyone has read the 'rules' but can we please start to see them enforced. Misogyny seems to be a particular issue at the moment and 'accidental' or 'joking' is IMO no excuse. Some comments are rightly seeking rebuke as it doesn't appear there is any attempt to enforce the rules.

I'm aware that anything I say on the main thread will only likely increase the belligerence from certain posters and I will not mention specific names but please can we some enforcement of the rules before UKPR2 descends into a cesspit of hate speech at which point a lot of folks will leave and/or the site should be shut down.

Mark I thoroughly agree with what @tw says. Perhaps a reminder from you in the thread, with a link to your original posting here would not go amiss. For new joiners, of which thankfully there are a number, you could even send them a message with the rules, so that no one would have the excuse that they had not read them.

[guymonde]

It would be nice to have a 'tech advice' thread. I saw someone thanking @alberto for advice how to post a tweet here and have spent ages trying (and failing) to find this nugget. Can't get search to work and scrolling through pages is a bore! Equally, @crofty asking about posting pics of mice. Plus I'd like to know how to use different fonts etc

[Deleted]

Feb 4, 2022 22:15:36 GMT guymonde said:

It would be nice to have a 'tech advice' thread. I saw someone thanking @alberto for advice how to post a tweet here and have spent ages trying (and failing) to find this nugget. Can't get search to work and scrolling through pages is a bore! Equally, @crofty asking about posting pics of mice. Plus I'd like to know how to use different fonts etc

Hi guymonde.

I can't find the post about the tweet either.  Even when searching for words I thought were in my answer.  I didn't delete it on purpose, so I don't know what happened to it.

Weird.

Anyway, you can get the link to a tweet from the share link.  It's the square u symbol with an up arrow on the righthand side of the icons at the bottom of the tweet.  The one to the right of the favourite heart.  Click that and then choose 'Copy link to Tweet'.

[birdseye]

Hi Mark

How do you divide the two branches of this forum. I always thought that the "general discussion" was about polls and the general political situation whilst the second part was specific to individual events / issues. Correct?

[Mark]

Hi, Birdseye,
Yes, that is correct. If this is regarding the 'Local Elections' poll in Geeral Discussion, my attitude is that this, the first real set of UK elections since the start of UKPR2, is a learning curve - for me, as well as anyone else.

Yes, it could be argued that it should be in Issue Specific. It could also be argued that the local elections themselves are indeed a poll.

I'm happy to hear what others think on this and the next 24 hours will likely show whether a separate thread where it is would be the best way of doing things in the future or not.

[mercian]

FWIW I think that the locals belong in the general section. Issue specific is for off-topic stuff IMO.

[Trevor]

Mar 24, 2023 15:48:39 GMT leftieliberal said:

Hi Mark This business of the board keeping running up against the limit of attachment space is really frustrating. I think that only you as the board owner can delete anyone's attachment; while posters can delete their own attachments. Can you tell all of us how much attachment space we have and how much various posters have used. I would hope that the main users of attachment space can be persuaded to delete their old attachments, so we can keep the board running with users able to post attachments. Otherwise, I may end up not being able to post my updates of all the polling because I won't be able to guarantee that if I delete my oldest spreadsheets there will be enough space for the newest spreadsheet.

One tip if you're worried that someone will sneak in and steal your spot if you delete an attachment to make room for another one.

1/ Open a second window
2/ Prep your new post or at least the new attachment in the second window
3/ Then quickly delete a post with an old attachment, quickly add the new attachment to your prepared post
4/ You can edit your prepared post later

Some cheeky chap might still sneak in but with some preparation then step #3 should only take a few seconds.

You need to have a few posts you're prepared to sacrifice to make room for new posts 'tis all and whilst I did say I'd delete some old posts to make room then I was perhaps unclear who that was for 

If anyone is desperate for some attachment space (it is currently <1MB zero* but not sure exactly how low) then PM me and if you ask nicely (and I like you) then I'll make room - but you'd need to be ready to act quick to prevent someone posting a GIF they've edited with crayons. 

PS If you happen to know someone who has posted a lot of GIFs with crayoned on comments then you can also ask them to make some room for you. 

* Couldn't even upload a 30KB so you might want to check the size of the attachment you delete and make sure the new one is <= same KBs.  

[Trevor]

leftieliberal  Another option is to create a tweet with the info you want to show and then link to the tweet which will then be displayed. If you don't want to give out your twitter account info then create a new dedicated twitter account.

My previous suggestion is the better one IMO but you have options to solve your own concerns

PS Editing your profile picture seems to be 'separate' stash of space to 'attachments' in posts

[leftieliberal]

Mar 24, 2023 16:54:08 GMT Trevor said:

Mar 24, 2023 15:48:39 GMT leftieliberal said:

Hi Mark This business of the board keeping running up against the limit of attachment space is really frustrating. I think that only you as the board owner can delete anyone's attachment; while posters can delete their own attachments. Can you tell all of us how much attachment space we have and how much various posters have used. I would hope that the main users of attachment space can be persuaded to delete their old attachments, so we can keep the board running with users able to post attachments. Otherwise, I may end up not being able to post my updates of all the polling because I won't be able to guarantee that if I delete my oldest spreadsheets there will be enough space for the newest spreadsheet.

One tip if you're worried that someone will sneak in and steal your spot if you delete an attachment to make room for another one.

1/ Open a second window
2/ Prep your new post or at least the new attachment in the second window
3/ Then quickly delete a post with an old attachment, quickly add the new attachment to your prepared post
4/ You can edit your prepared post later

Some cheeky chap might still sneak in but with some preparation then step #3 should only take a few seconds.

You need to have a few posts you're prepared to sacrifice to make room for new posts 'tis all and whilst I did say I'd delete some old posts to make room then I was perhaps unclear who that was for 

If anyone is desperate for some attachment space (it is currently <1MB zero* but not sure exactly how low) then PM me and if you ask nicely (and I like you) then I'll make room - but you'd need to be ready to act quick to prevent someone posting a GIF they've edited with crayons. 

PS If you happen to know someone who has posted a lot of GIFs with crayoned on comments then you can also ask them to make some room for you. 

* Couldn't even upload a 30KB so you might want to check the size of the attachment you delete and make sure the new one is <= same KBs.  

Thanks Trevor Now I have found that Mark is going to start deleting attachments starting with the oldest first from next Wednesday, I am not going to worry further. I would have preferred it if the people who had caused the problem were forced to delete their own attachments, but this is the next best. 

[leftieliberal]

Mar 24, 2023 17:15:32 GMT Trevor said:

leftieliberal  Another option is to create a tweet with the info you want to show and then link to the tweet which will then be displayed. If you don't want to give out your twitter account info then create a new dedicated twitter account.

My previous suggestion is the better one IMO but you have options to solve your own concerns

PS Editing your profile picture seems to be 'separate' stash of space to 'attachments' in posts

Actually, I avoided Twitter even before Musk. I had thought of putting the data on a googledrive like catmanjeff used to on the old UKPR board but never got round to it.

[Trevor]

Mar 24, 2023 17:18:53 GMT leftieliberal said:

Mar 24, 2023 16:54:08 GMT Trevor said:

Thanks Trevor Now I have found that Mark is going to start deleting attachments starting with the oldest first from next Wednesday, I am not going to worry further. I would have preferred it if the people who had caused the problem were forced to delete their own attachments, but this is the next best. 

For Mark, in anticipation of a bit of commons being made available for another tragedy.

A bit like panic buying toilet rolls then if someone suddenly finds attachment space has been freed up next Wednesday, they might load up on attachments to create their own stash for my previous 'Trev's Top Tip' on how to make space for one's own future attachments.

Hence pre-cull perhaps provide guidance/rules on future use of the scarce resource of attachment MBs. Then if anyone panic buys up the available attachment space (eg posts a load of GIFs marked up with crayons) those would be 'bad' use of the limited attachment space and be deleted. 

PS By all means delete my posts on this thread as I can see how my 'tip' might be used inappropriately 

[Trevor]

Apr 11, 2023 18:25:40 GMT jib said:

Apr 11, 2023 17:46:34 GMT leftieliberal said:

I think you should be required to declare the attachment size when you post. Those crayons look awfully high resolution to me.

Indeed they are, but they're a link, so haven't used up the attachment allowance!

Easy to way for people to see who is posting 'attachments' is to see when someone replies to them and their reply states 'view attachment'

If it is a 'link' image (zero kbs) then you see the link image in the first reply but a second reply knocks out the first reply - as I've just demonstrated.

I'm not totally sure but if you reply to a post that has an attachment then, whilst the person who originally posted it would be able to delete their post, the attachment itself might stay using up attachment space? Someone can investigate that if they want to but if that is the case then when folks reply to someone then might I suggest they take 2secs to remove the 'view attachment' bit - people won't see it in your reply anyway but by leaving 'view attachment' there then you might inadvertently prevent the person who originally posted a .jpg or similar from then being able to free up the space they used.

Obviously not posting worthless .jpgs (or similar attachments) in the first place would be more sensible approach as I expect a 3rd 'tragedy of the commons' will occur fairly soon and IMO it would be better to deal with the 'cause' of the problem rather than the 'symptoms' (ie Mark wouldn't have to delete a lot of posts if people stopped posting worthless .jpgs (or similar)

[leftieliberal]

Apr 11, 2023 18:41:41 GMT Trevor said:

Apr 11, 2023 18:25:40 GMT jib said:

Indeed they are, but they're a link, so haven't used up the attachment allowance!

Easy to way for people to see who is posting 'attachments' is to see when someone replies to them and their reply states 'view attachment'

If it is a 'link' image (zero kbs) then you see the link image in the first reply but a second reply knocks out the first reply - as I've just demonstrated.

I'm not totally sure but if you reply to a post that has an attachment then, whilst the person who originally posted it would be able to delete their post, the attachment itself might stay using up attachment space? Someone can investigate that if they want to but if that is the case then when folks reply to someone then might I suggest they take 2secs to remove the 'view attachment' bit - people won't see it in your reply anyway but by leaving 'view attachment' there then you might inadvertently prevent the person who originally posted a .jpg or similar from then being able to free up the space they used.

Obviously not posting worthless .jpgs (or similar attachments) in the first place would be more sensible approach as I expect a 3rd 'tragedy of the commons' will occur fairly soon and IMO it would be better to deal with the 'cause' of the problem rather than the 'symptoms' (ie Mark wouldn't have to delete a lot of posts if people stopped posting worthless .jpgs (or similar)

I agree. It is much better to post links to photographs when they already exist on the internet (that button with the globe and document in the button bar when you are using reply, rather than quick reply is the one that gives you access to links). Combined with a good image search tool like Google Images or TinEye Reverse Image Search you can convert almost any image to a link (the main exception is those you upload from your PC).

[Trevor]

Since there is a "rules update" in the below then I'll repost it on the General Rules thread in order to keep all the rules in one place.

Apr 26, 2023 17:07:53 GMT Mark said:

*** ADMIN ***

I am once again a little behind, so several things to cover.

Firstly, the new polling thread. This thread. Started by someone other than me.

That is absolutely fine. It ws needed....indeed, it was overdue.

No problem there whatoever. Please can we all use this as the most recent polling thread?

There is a problem, however, in that one member had changed their display name to "Mark".

It had been changed again by the time I got here. There will be no sanction - this time - but, I promise that any repeat of this will lead - at the very least - to a yellow card.

The same goes for changing your display name to the same or similar to an existing member. Do not even begin to think about doing this.

I will repeat what I said before that regular members should keep to the same display name as much as possible, larglely to avoid confusion, but, I do recognise that there can be valid reasons for a username change so will not sanction anyone that does so - except for chaging a display name to appear to be someone else, as covered above.

The second issue is a derogatory word for the gypsy community used in the previous thread. Indeed the whole post was prejudicial.

The term used is completely unacceptable and any future use of such a term WILL be sanctioned. My inbox - and the reaction on the thread itself - tells me that I do not have to spell this out any further, but, finally, as usual, any sanction I take, or don't take, is between myself and the member concerned and will not be made public unless the member concerned decides to make it so.

[rab18]

Nov 19, 2021 15:05:30 GMT Mark said:

1. Hate speech (racism, misogyny, homophobia etc). is expressly forbidden. Those that do will get a warning. The most serious offenders will get kicked without warning.

2. No flaming or trolling other users. We understand that political discussion can be passionate at times, but, please keep it polite. When there are differences of opinion, argue the point, not the member posting it. Once again, offenders will be warned, repeat offenders will be kicked.

3. Anynody can start a new thread. We would appreciate it if the threads (and thread names) were mainly for new polls, but, when an issue relative to polling comes up, a non polling thread will be allowed, but, please, do this sparingly.

As the threads appear in the order they were last replied to, please start all threads with the current date. see other threads for the date format.

This will make it easy for all users to find the most recent threads in the event that older threads have recently been posted on.

4. This forum is about POLLING and, therefore, should be kept as non-partisan as possible.

The comments sections on most political blogs is either one sided, or dominated by petty political point scoring and tired rehersals of party political spin.

That is not what this forum is abou.

Therefore the rule in the comments section is that all comments should be made in the spirit of non-partisanship, to try and welcome all people here to discuss polls and politics like adults with a shared interest, despite supporting different parties.

This means that it is not a place for spinning, not a place for saying how much you hate party X and wish they would lose, nor it is a place for saying what party should win, or what the public should support.

We are interested in what will happen, what the public actually think, not what you think they should do.

Treat other commenters who don’t share your views with respect – it’s your chance to understand their point of view, not score points off them – and indeed, politicans from opposing parties with respect.

Comments that talk about Zanu-NuLab, one-eyed Scottish idiots and so on are not conducisive to the non-partisan sort of discussion we want here.

As a nice rule of thumb, think of it as a forum about politics, not a venue for politics.

If you see a comment from someone else that you think crosses over the line please do NOT respond with equally partisan rebuttals. If it is a new poster then please do welcome them, explain we don’t really do things that way round here. If it is someone who should know better, just ignore them: continuing a partisan argument is just as bad as starting it!

[Trevor]

Reposting on the General Rules thread so the 'updates' are in one place. There were a few similar updates recently* as well but doesn't seem like they had any effect

Aug 26, 2023 12:28:07 GMT Mark said:

*** ADMIN ***

I have noticed some insults being dished out to others again recently, including in some posts that would would be otherwise fine.

I will remind members, once again, that personal attacks are against board rules.

More seriously, last night/late evening, there was a spat on here between at least two members that has no place on here whatsoever and were attacks on each other and little more.

I won't name names - you know who you are - and have no choice but to warn said members that any repeat of this behaviour will lead to official sanctions.

One member has held their hand up to say 'I'm guilty of this', which is noted but, doesn't get them off the hook.

* Happy to repost them all on this thread but IIRC then they covered issues such as "play the policy, not the man (person)" and a request to keep comments about other posters to a minimum (but one-one 'banter' between 'friends' was OK)

[Trevor]

Oct 17, 2023 11:32:29 GMT Mark said:

*** ADMIN ***

I will be starting a new main polling thread tomorrow, likely late afternoon or evening.

This is on the eve of the two, upcoming by-elections, in order that posts concerning the aforementioned are close to the top of the thread.

I'm hoping that there will be a new poll published between now and then, but, if not, will use the most recent poll (Deltapoll, published yesterday).

I will ask that, in the interim, no member starts such a thread. Should that happen, the thread will be deleted or, should it contain numerous posts, merged with the one that will be started by me.

As to the question I asked shortly after this thread was started, that being whether the main polling threads always be started by me (which would require a rule change), the majority of those that responded supported this stance.

Assuming that there is no change in support levels, that would come into effect at the end of the next polling thread.

Therefore, should any member support things staying as they are (IE any member can start a new polling thread), or if any member has, away from the heat of the moment, previously supported the change, but since changed their mind, there is still time to voice your opinion.

There is no need for those who have already expressed an opinion, but, not changed their minds (eithor way) to re-iterate their position as it has already been noted.

If you do change rule #3 then can you please update your rules. Any info on whether or not rule #2 will be enforced or where you draw the line between 'banter' and 'flaming'?

A new main thread would be another opportunity for an 'amnesty' and reset, with people leaving their historic vendettas where they belong - in the past. Your forum, your call. 

[Mark]

Yes, should, as currently looks likely, the majority of members that express a preference for a change in rules, said rule chage will be posted as an "*** AMIN ***" post, detailing the old and the new.

The rules will also be updated, the new ruling dated (EG "[As of dd/mm/yyyy]".

In terms of 'banter', that is considered on a case by case basis.

As previously said, on the occasions where I intervene, short of a temporary or permanant ban, this is usually done behind the scenes and not made public, unless those that have had a sanction choose to make it public.

When there are occasions where more than one member is involved, or where something is more serious, or becoming/has the potential to become a problem, I make an "*** ADMIN ***" post. This may be instead of, or, more often, as well as a member being sanctioned.

[Trevor]

Oct 17, 2023 15:04:23 GMT Mark said:

Yes, should, as currently looks likely, the majority of members that express a preference for a change in rules, said rule chage will be posted as an "*** AMIN ***" post, detailing the old and the new.

The rules will also be updated, the new ruling dated (EG "[As of dd/mm/yyyy]".

I assume the rules have now changed and don't wish to make more work for you but if rule #3 has now changed then could you update that rule. Apologies, but some nodys are sticklers for the rules 

[Mark]

No rules have been changed. Assuming the rule change in the pipeline does come into efect, it will be towards the end of the current main polling thread.

[leftieliberal]

Mark has set out rules for what should and should not be posted, but not advice on how to post. The information is all there in the Help menu, but not easy to find if you don't know what you are looking for. A recent comment by a New Member illustrates that few people are sad enough to actually read the Help topics. So, here is a brief summary:

If you want to post a new post (not in reply to another post) then either write it in "Quick Reply" at the bottom of each page if you don't want to use fancy text effects or click "Reply" in the top right-hand corner of each page if you do.

If you want to reply to another post, then press the Quote button on that post, which will put the text and attachments of that post in a box with rounded corners in the default Preview mode. You can then type your comments below. It is often considered good practice to either delete text and/or highlight text in the original post you are commenting on to make it clear what your comment applies to, as long as you do not change its sense.

Occasionally, deleting text can mess up Proboards formatting resulting in the cursor appearing inside the previous poster's box. If this happens, click on BBCode in the bottom left-hand corner and type your text after the last "[/quote]". Clicking on Preview will show the text outside the box. If you choose to use BBCode throughout, this problem doesn't occur, but for most people it is easier to use Preview which is WYSIWYG.

You can edit your own posts (I often find extra line spaces appearing when I paste in text from elsewhere), but should make it clear you have done so if it changes the sense.

You can delete your own posts. This is the fourth item in the drop-down menu below the gear wheel. I tend to delete my old posts in Polling Archive to save attachment space and keep the thread short as all the information is in the latest post. If you realise you have made a mistake and no-one has commented on it, then it is easier to delete the post and start again. Because editing posts does not cause them to show up as new posts in the thread list, in some threads like Polling Archive it may be better to delete the old post and post a new updated version.

You can link to other posts. For example ukpollingreport2.proboards.com/post/5 is a link to the first post in this thread. This is the second item in the drop-down menu underneath the gearwheel. Linking is useful when you want to refer to a post in another thread, or even in the same thread but many pages earlier.

[Danny]

Hi Mark ,
I noticed that if you try to look up posts made by a specific contributor through their user/contributions page, you cannot. It produces a list of their contributions which however doesn't show the posts. If you click on the link it just opens the start of the thread where they posted, which is completely useless to identify their specific posts because threads here typically are thousands of posts long.

On other boards this link jumps directly to the specific post, not the start of the thread. Can you change this so it pops up the actual posts?


On a separate matter, users are allowed to edit past posts whenever they like. Does the system keep a record of what was originally posted and how it was changed?

[Mark]

Danny

On the issue of simply jumping to the thread (or, as I find, the page in the thread that contains the post), to jump to the exact post, sadly, relies on javascript.

If you have a browser setting that disables the script, or have javascript turned off generally or are using a script blocker (and some ad-blockers may even do this), then the result is what you are seeing.

I agree that this is unsatisfactory, but, apart from taking the issue to Proboards and suggesting a change, there is little I can do about this.

As to editing posts, once edited, there is no trace of the post in it's original form on the system. Again, there is nothing I can do to change this.