Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2022 15:02:19 GMT
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Nov 30, 2022 15:35:10 GMT
Very sorry to hear about Caroline's problems with getting an ambulance
Things will likely not get any better soon
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Mr Poppy
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Teaching assistant and now your elected PM
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Post by Mr Poppy on Nov 30, 2022 15:37:41 GMT
colin I'm deeply offended that you must have scrolled past this from a few days ago (page 3 of this thread)  New Lord Ashcroft piece. Nothing that new but there is a section that suggest some of the CON'19 DKs (and loosely attached CON'19->LAB VI) could be persuaded to vote CON in GE'24. Upside looks limited and I'll restate my view that the 'best' Rishi can realistically hope for is 200ish CON seats in GE'24 (and if they don't sort their infighting out then quite likely a lot less than that) They Think It’s All Over – Can The Tories Turn It Round?lordashcroftpolls.com/2022/11/16852/I'll also restate why I think 200ish CON MPs is important. I totally get your point that they probably need a humiliating defeat to 'wake up' and get back in touch with reality but much below 200 and they won't be able to offer a credible opposition. Sadly within the '200' you will have too many "Ammonites" (which I perhaps misunderstood as you meaning their ability to survive with very little need to or desire to change - hence my example of Old Croc Dinosaur Chope) I also like the idea of Badenoch as LOTO as she'll keep Sir Keir on his toes over issues like Immigration and make it less likely LAB drift back to the Left. For your question: "pps-when the history of this period is written who do you think will be fingered for the destruction of the Conservative Party -Johnson or Truss ?"
If both is an option then both. If I can only pick one then Truss but you've left me feeling a bit queasy by not using the word 'blamed' in your sentence. Please no one ever post the picture that Truss liked to use once she became PM  At least CON rectified the Truss era error pretty quick and markets have fully recovered since (the collective making a few ££ on those market swings ) but for CON's "brand" then they'll be lasting damage for sure and fair play to LAB for mentioning the Truss era error for at least the next 3 GEs (It's what any Tory Party would do)
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Post by robbiealive on Nov 30, 2022 15:56:24 GMT
can't they just make their bl--dy minds up & get on with it: & as crossbat11 has said, this site is a discussion not a canvassing site! Well some can-clearly. So all they have to do on here is keep repeating that the other lot are rubbish-and worse !. Doesn't take much thought does it?. If that is what appeals you must be a happy fellow -here among the Party Warriors and Spear Carriers. But ...sport....some us occasionally have a think about the political choices on offer ; ike to ruminate on them in this welcoming corner of objective political discussion and polling reports. Even Labour supporters do it. Try it some time-when you have a moment. 1. " can't they just make their bl--dy minds up & get on with it!" Not my view but my summary of ladyvalerie 's, which I think was accurate. Why don't you deal with her directly or do you have a problem with women posters. Don't feel threatened. Together they contribute just over 6% of posts, slightly more than your single-handed 4.5%! 10 posts by you already today Col. Well done. 2. So all they have to do on here is keep repeating that the other lot are rubbish-and worse ! Observing politics for 50 years: nothing equals the chaos since 2016. A big majority & they can't pass housing & other essential bills. Laughable. As Fats W wud say: If this isn't rubbish it will have to do until the the real thing comes along. 3. you must be a happy fellow -here among the Party Warriors and Spear Carriers. Oh dear not the mythical echo chamber again! Look at the stats I provided or are you just ineducable. 4. some us occasionally have a think about the political choices on offer, to ruminate Fine. Just you & others spare us the daily updates on yr voting intentions, the tedious self-regarding agonising, the cud-chewing, the if-Starmer-does-exactly-what-i-demand-I'll-vote Labour-signalling-a-sea-change-in-the fate-of-the-nation posturing. Political discussion isn't about individual intentions, yrs or others'. |
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Mr Poppy
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Teaching assistant and now your elected PM
Posts: 3,774
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Post by Mr Poppy on Nov 30, 2022 16:01:28 GMT
Spoiler Alert for the Sunday Papers. Having done The Sunday Times and The Sunday Wail then the exciting Sir Keir trilogy wraps up this weekend as Sir Keir comes clean in a 'tell it all' expose for the Sunday Torygraph - the final frontier of folks who might still vote CON in GE'24 but just need to be sure who the real Sir Keir really is. OK we all know he stabbed Corbynism in the back but who is the real Sir Keir. He's 1/ kissed a Tory (code: copied a load of their policies but dabbed a bit of 'vague' nativism and Green on them) and 2/ he stated he is a born again Brexit True Br-Leaver but what the readers of the Sunday Torygraph need to hear is.... 3/ ![]() Attachment Deleted |
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steve
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Post by steve on Nov 30, 2022 16:01:39 GMT
You won't find any " illegal immigrants " housed at UK expense in hotels you will however find desperate people seeking asylum or here as refugees, as such they aren't here illegally and they aren't immigrants.
Their stay in hotels is protracted because the U.K. government won't allow them to work and takes an order of magnitude longer than European union countries to process their applications.
The pejorative term " illegal immigrants " is a favourite of xenephobes as it seeks to dehumanize those in need and salve what's left of their conscience by allowing them to disassociate from the humanity and focus on the cost.
Sadly it's also become common practice for the media to use it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2022 16:04:14 GMT
Well some can-clearly. So all they have to do on here is keep repeating that the other lot are rubbish-and worse !. Doesn't take much thought does it?. If that is what appeals you must be a happy fellow -here among the Party Warriors and Spear Carriers. But ...sport....some us occasionally have a think about the political choices on offer ; ike to ruminate on them in this welcoming corner of objective political discussion and polling reports. Even Labour supporters do it. Try it some time-when you have a moment. 1. " can't they just make their bl--dy minds up & get on with it!" Not my view but my summary of ladyvalerie 's, which I think was accurate. Why don't you deal with her directly or do you have a problem with women posters. Don't feel threatened. Together they contribute just over 6% of posts, slightly more than your single-handed 4.5%! 10 posts by you already today Col. Well done. 2. So all they have to do on here is keep repeating that the other lot are rubbish-and worse ! Observing politics for 50 years: nothing equals the chaos since 2016. A big majority & they can't pass housing & other essential bills. Laughable. As Fats W wud say: If this isn't rubbish it will have to do until the the real thing comes along. 3. you must be a happy fellow -here among the Party Warriors and Spear Carriers. Oh dear not the mythical echo chamber again! Look at the stats I provided or are you just ineducable. 4. some us occasionally have a think about the political choices on offer, to ruminate Fine. Just spare us the daily updates on yr voting intentions, the tedious self-regarding agonising, the interminable cud-chewing, the if-Starmer-does-exactly-what-i-demand-I'll-vote Labour-signalling-a-sea-change-in-the fate-of-the-nation posturing. Politics isn't about you. Thanks. .You never dis appoint. ! Sport. |
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oldnat
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Extremist - Undermining the UK state and its institutions
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Post by oldnat on Nov 30, 2022 16:06:05 GMT
caroline
I hope my sympathy for your situation is now too late, and that the ambulance has arrived.
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Post by lululemonmustdobetter on Nov 30, 2022 16:07:30 GMT
Just logged in after a long gap looking after husband. He fell out of bed at 7am this morning trying to reach for something. Last night the carers who put him to bed were in a rush and forgot to put the bed breaks on and he fell between the bed and the wall. I don't know whether he has broken an arm or dislocated his shoulder, I can't move him and he is on the floor distressed and disorientated and in a lot of pain. Phoned for an ambulance 5 hours ago...still waiting. A few years ago hospital care was deteriorating but the emergency services were good. Nothing to do but wait and read all the comments on polling and football! |
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Post by mercian on Nov 30, 2022 16:11:11 GMT
mercian . Your recollection is mistaken the highest vote for a single party post WW2 was 49.7% in 1955 when the Tories won a majority the highest vote for Labour was in 1951 with 48.1% where despite Labour comfortably winning the popular vote the Tories won a majority of seats. The conservatives did achieve 50% + results before WW2 however some coincided with a National Government the result in 1935 of 51.8% was the only time with something resembling universal suffrage that a party won over 50%. Thanks for that. I was too tired to look it up last night, but the point stands. I think it's very unlikely that Labour will achieve 50% of the vote in the next GE. |
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Nov 30, 2022 16:15:47 GMT
Good to see Starmer not backing down over removing the vat exemption for private schools If the Daily Mail and Sunak are opposed to you then it is a sign you are doing something right. Also it looks like Starmer has the public on his side according to the below Yougov poll. Mind you it may only be a matter of time before Sunak sees the error of his ways and copies Labour policy...again yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/trackers/should-uk-private-schoold-be-exempt-from-tax |
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Post by davwel on Nov 30, 2022 16:20:57 GMT
I was pleased to hear Sir Keir on the attack at PMQ about the unfair tax avoidance of private schools.
Removing it may only save £1m, or less as R4 was keen to claim by having a spokesperson from their lobby, who went largely unchallenged by Sarah Montague.
Much more important, as the Labour shadow said next, is helping the cash-stricken public schools. And some private-school-intending pupils going instead State will boost performance and teachers` morale in these schools.
Higher earners have enough spare cash to not make unpleasant changes for their children already at private schools, and a weeding out of some run-down and poorly-performing private schools will on balance do good for our nations.
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Post by mercian on Nov 30, 2022 16:24:23 GMT
Well unlike some of you, I'm not a tribal voter. I often don't finally decide who to vote for until I'm in the polling booth, even if I've got a pretty good idea beforehand. I don't keep a record, but I've probably voted Tory more often than anything else (particularly when the Blessed Margaret was around). I can remember voting for the Natural Law Party (mattress bouncers) at least once and certainly UKIP and Brexit and quite likely LibDems or one of their forebears. I think I voted Green once before I discovered their extreme left stance on things other than the environment. I would definitely vote for the Monster Raving Loonies if they stood in my constituency. Anyway, I would definitely consider voting Labour if they were wholeheartedly committed to PR elections to the HoL in their first term. I can't see that happening but you never know. Crikey, that's some niche voting determinant. PR to elect the second chamber? Such a big issue for a former Tory, UKIP and Brexit Party voter that they'd contemplate a Labour vote if they offered it? Forgive me for thinking that this putative deal-sealing aspect of Labour policy is a load of old poppycock. I think that the state of the Upper House is shocking and disgraceful. Is there any other country where party leaders can just appoint their mates as legislators for life? I'd prefer all hereditaries to what we've got now. If Corbyn was still Labour leader I wouldn't consider a Labour vote but Starmer doesn't seem so dangerous. I'd have thought you'd be pleased at my open-mindedness. |
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Post by mercian on Nov 30, 2022 16:32:55 GMT
Also roughly equivalent to the Remain vote in 2016, which was over 16 million, in a vote where we were told it was 'indicative' and didn't necessarily have to be followed through by the government. Only after the event did it morph into a national priority that had to be done. Indeed, a binary, expressly non-binding referendum question cannot be at all equated with party support I was simply comparing numbers. Labour are consistently getting around 50% in polls. If this carried over into a GE and turnout was the same (admittedly turnout in recent GEs has been a bit less than the referendum), Labour would get the most votes any party has ever got. This seems unlikely. |
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Post by mercian on Nov 30, 2022 16:36:20 GMT
Colin is really the last hope of those hoping for an insight into the way developments are viewed from the right (with apologies to Mercian, whose valued and valuable contributions tend more towards entertainment than insight). Booooo |
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Nov 30, 2022 16:38:39 GMT
Not seen much on here about the Chester by-election tomorrow
I would expect Labour to win and also for
there to be a low turn out, time will tell
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neilj
Member
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Post by neilj on Nov 30, 2022 16:40:20 GMT
Colin is really the last hope of those hoping for an insight into the way developments are viewed from the right (with apologies to Mercian, whose valued and valuable contributions tend more towards entertainment than insight). Booooo Well that response has blown Somerjohn's analysis of you out of the water 😀 |
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Post by mercian on Nov 30, 2022 16:40:51 GMT
Just logged in after a long gap looking after husband. He fell out of bed at 7am this morning trying to reach for something. Last night the carers who put him to bed were in a rush and forgot to put the bed breaks on and he fell between the bed and the wall. I don't know whether he has broken an arm or dislocated his shoulder, I can't move him and he is on the floor distressed and disorientated and in a lot of pain. Phoned for an ambulance 5 hours ago...still waiting. A few years ago hospital care was deteriorating but the emergency services were good. Nothing to do but wait and read all the comments on polling and football! I hope they turn up soon and that he's ok. |
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patrickbrian
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Post by patrickbrian on Nov 30, 2022 16:43:07 GMT
vat for public schools
some years ago my old public school sent me a glossy brochure with a breakdown of their accounts - I have no idea why, and it hasn't happened again. Some passing fad for openness I expect. In all they had getting on for £10 million in tax breaks. Bigger than the entire school budget for the comprehensive my children went to. Of course they thought this was something to be proud of, and in a way it was. But the idea there are not substantial amounts to be clawed back by cutting out the tax breaks is absurd.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2022 16:47:08 GMT
Colin is really the last hope of those hoping for an insight into the way developments are viewed from the right (with apologies to Mercian, whose valued and valuable contributions tend more towards entertainment than insight). Booooo I think that as well as a like symbol this site needs a booo-meter. |
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steve
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Post by steve on Nov 30, 2022 16:51:24 GMT
"I was pleased to hear Sir Keir on the attack at PMQ about the unfair tax avoidance of private schools.
Removing it may only save £1m, or less as R4 was keen to claim by having a spokesperson from their lobby, who went largely unchallenged by Sarah Montague."
Well there's a shock Montague privately educated wife of David Cameron's old Etonian mate Sir Richard Brooke didn't question a lobbyist for the fee charging school industry.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2022 16:57:36 GMT
I think that as well as a like symbol this site needs a booo-meter. And actually, to save posters’ time, it could be added automatically to all of Mr Nat’s post.  |
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Post by alec on Nov 30, 2022 16:57:55 GMT
Once held up as an example of 'getting the big calls right', Kate Bingham accuses the government of going backwards on pandemic preparedness and says the covid vaccines we have are "not good enough". news.sky.com/story/mps-told-covid-jabs-are-not-up-to-scratch-by-former-chief-of-uks-vaccination-programme-12758669We've taken our eye off the ball here, in the race to forget. There really is a way out of this, through better vaccines and a 'vaccine plus' strategy, which will help ease the pressure on the NHS and long term health burdens, but we need to accept the pandemic isn't over and there is still work to be done. |
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Post by mercian on Nov 30, 2022 16:59:13 GMT
I think that as well as a like symbol this site needs a booo-meter. I wonder if @mark or anyone else has the ability to count the 'likes' that posters get? |
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Nov 30, 2022 17:01:59 GMT
Latest Scotland independence poll
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2022 17:03:00 GMT
I think that as well as a like symbol this site needs a booo-meter. I was thinking a " piss off dickhead " button would be really helpful. |
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oldnat
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Post by oldnat on Nov 30, 2022 17:06:35 GMT
Latest Scotland independence poll
"Further, those who voted for the Scottish National Party (81%) in the 2019 General Election are significantly more likely than those who voted Conservative (17%) or Labour (34%) to say they would vote ‘yes.’" |
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Post by mercian on Nov 30, 2022 17:08:56 GMT
I think that as well as a like symbol this site needs a booo-meter. I was going to just say 'boo', but I thought he might think I was just trying to surprise him 🤩 |
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Mr Poppy
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Teaching assistant and now your elected PM
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Post by Mr Poppy on Nov 30, 2022 17:10:12 GMT
Colin is really the last hope of those hoping for an insight into the way developments are viewed from the right (with apologies to Mercian, whose valued and valuable contributions tend more towards entertainment than insight). Booooo Hiss |
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oldnat
Member
Extremist - Undermining the UK state and its institutions
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Post by oldnat on Nov 30, 2022 17:13:37 GMT
R&W Scots Westminster Voting Intention poll (with changes from the 2019 Election in parentheses) are as follows:
Scottish National Party 41% (-4)
Labour 31% (+12)
Conservative 16% (-9)
Liberal Democrat 8% (-2)
Green 2% (+1)
Reform 2% (new)
Other 1% (–)
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