domjg
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Post by domjg on May 15, 2022 20:31:51 GMT
Anent the monarchy and differing attitudes.
Friends of my independista and mildly republican daughter are coming to Scotland for the first time at the beginning of June, to celebrate her 50th birthday in a lodge in the Cairngorms.
They are "very South of England" and are in for a culture shock!
One asked "Will there be a street party? I'll bring the Union Jack bunting".
There are no streets. There aren't even any other houses, and Union Flags would be as welcome as the Pope at an Orange Walk. We're from the south of England and the only reason we're still going to be here over the Jubilee is because it suddenly got very expensive to leave the country as leaving did seem to be the most comfortable option. We'll just keep our heads down. If we inadvertently end up at any flag waving events I'll make sure I have my EU flag (veteran of the Oct 2019 London march) to hand  |
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Post by robbiealive on May 15, 2022 20:45:05 GMT
Anent the monarchy and differing attitudes.
Friends of my independista and mildly republican daughter are coming to Scotland for the first time at the beginning of June, to celebrate her 50th birthday in a lodge in the Cairngorms.
They are "very South of England" and are in for a culture shock!
One asked "Will there be a street party? I'll bring the Union Jack bunting".
There are no streets. There aren't even any other houses, and Union Flags would be as welcome as the Pope at an Orange Walk. Haha. It's what's called the decline of deference. You may recall that Karen Bradley is so thick that she didnt know when she became Sec of State for Northern Ireland that people there voted along sectarian lines: the most startling expression of political ignorance by a Brit politician I have ever heard. P. Patel of course encouraged fans to boo when English players took the knee. "Platinum jubilee Queen Barbie sells out in three seconds" reports John Lewis. Perhaps the need to get the Queen fit for the celebrations explains why she has been kept out of sight recently. I start a holiday in the Cairngorms on the Saturday & shall report any suspicious signs of discarded bunting in the vicinity of lodges, a word so redolent of monarchical lesiure. A friend of mine during the Silver Jubilee was the first I heard use a coarse adjective to describe the bunting. Still the workers get a day off. There are even a few on this site. So, Hurrah for tghat & them. |
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Post by mercian on May 15, 2022 21:00:18 GMT
It's a shame to be so curmudgeonly about a celebration that will give a lot of people pleasure in these difficult times and Her Majesty deserves respect for the way she has conducted herself for 70 years on the throne. Even at 96 she is still carrying out some of her duties which is both remarkable and admirable.
I expect you all to pile in with snide comments but I had to respond to the miserable fun-hating that is so typical of the left. Truly the spirit of the Cromwell and the major-generals. I suppose we should ban Maypole dancing and Christmas too?
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domjg
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Posts: 5,138
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Post by domjg on May 15, 2022 21:07:39 GMT
It's a shame to be so curmudgeonly about a celebration that will give a lot of people pleasure in these difficult times and Her Majesty deserves respect for the way she has conducted herself for 70 years on the throne. Even at 96 she is still carrying out some of her duties which is both remarkable and admirable. I expect you all to pile in with snide comments but I had to respond to the miserable fun-hating that is so typical of the left. Truly the spirit of the Cromwell and the major-generals. I suppose we should ban Maypole dancing and Christmas too? I love fun. I just don’t like societally enforced, group pressure ‘fun’. |
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Post by mercian on May 15, 2022 21:12:01 GMT
It's a shame to be so curmudgeonly about a celebration that will give a lot of people pleasure in these difficult times and Her Majesty deserves respect for the way she has conducted herself for 70 years on the throne. Even at 96 she is still carrying out some of her duties which is both remarkable and admirable. I expect you all to pile in with snide comments but I had to respond to the miserable fun-hating that is so typical of the left. Truly the spirit of the Cromwell and the major-generals. I suppose we should ban Maypole dancing and Christmas too? I love fun. I just don’t like societally enforced, group pressure ‘fun’. No one's forcing you. Just stay in your miserable little cave muttering about how awful it all is. It sounds like Christmas is on your list - surely that's "societally enforced group pressure 'fun'"? |
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domjg
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Post by domjg on May 15, 2022 21:17:28 GMT
I love fun. I just don’t like societally enforced, group pressure ‘fun’. No one's forcing you. Just stay in your miserable little cave muttering about how awful it all is. It sounds like Christmas is on your list - surely that's "societally enforced group pressure 'fun'"? Not by the British state though, for whom, armed forces excepted, I have developed an extremely low opinion in recent years. Christmas is good old multi national fun though if honest I can only take it for so long.. |
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Post by mercian on May 15, 2022 21:25:21 GMT
She's Queen of Scotland too you know.
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
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Post by pjw1961 on May 15, 2022 21:39:34 GMT
It's a shame to be so curmudgeonly about a celebration that will give a lot of people pleasure in these difficult times and Her Majesty deserves respect for the way she has conducted herself for 70 years on the throne. Even at 96 she is still carrying out some of her duties which is both remarkable and admirable. I expect you all to pile in with snide comments but I had to respond to the miserable fun-hating that is so typical of the left. Truly the spirit of the Cromwell and the major-generals. I suppose we should ban Maypole dancing and Christmas too? Rather than Cromwell, I prefer Thomas Rainsborough's observation in the Putney Debates (although these days it would encompass she's as well as he's): "I think that the poorest he that is in England hath a life to live, as the greatest he; and therefore truly, Sir, I think it's clear, that every man that is to live under a government ought first by his own consent to put himself under that government; and I do think that the poorest man in England is not bound in a strict sense to that government that he hath not had a voice to put himself under." I have no voice in selecting the Monarch, therefore I do not consider myself bound to recognise the existence of that institution or regard myself as a subject of it. For the avoidance of doubt, Rainsborough was calling for universal male suffrage in 1648 - it wasn't finally achieved until 1918, and we are still stuck with an unelected head of state. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2022 21:42:23 GMT
I would certainly vote to abolish the monarchy, following the death of Elizabeth. But I have some sympathy with Mercian with regard to the forthcoming celebrations (no idea when they are - I have no vested interest as I will still have to walk Rosie and Daisie and practice my music instead of getting a day off.)
Anyway, if like me you don’t wish to participate, then the simple answer is - don’t - but just quietly leave it to those who, for whatever reasons, do.
And who, I imagine, will get genuine pleasure from joining in with the many others doing so.
Paul
ps I have occasionally pictured being the person to quickly tell Charles that there is mixed news:
“Yer Mum has died and they’ve abolished the monarchy with immediate effect.”
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Post by Old Southendian on May 15, 2022 21:44:13 GMT
We're from the south of England and the only reason we're still going to be here over the Jubilee is because it suddenly got very expensive to leave the country as leaving did seem to be the most comfortable option. We'll just keep our heads down. If we inadvertently end up at any flag waving events I'll make sure I have my EU flag (veteran of the Oct 2019 London march) to hand  Fortunately I'll be safely out of the country. Not through planning, to be honest I'd completely forgotten the Jubilee weekend up to now, but just because that's where I spend 90% of my time. In fact I'll be working all that weekend, and probably enjoying that more than I would the Jubilee. |
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Post by jib on May 15, 2022 21:46:08 GMT
Anent the monarchy and differing attitudes.
Friends of my independista and mildly republican daughter are coming to Scotland for the first time at the beginning of June, to celebrate her 50th birthday in a lodge in the Cairngorms.
They are "very South of England" and are in for a culture shock!
One asked "Will there be a street party? I'll bring the Union Jack bunting".
There are no streets. There aren't even any other houses, and Union Flags would be as welcome as the Pope at an Orange Walk. We're from the south of England and the only reason we're still going to be here over the Jubilee is because it suddenly got very expensive to leave the country as leaving did seem to be the most comfortable option. We'll just keep our heads down. If we inadvertently end up at any flag waving events I'll make sure I have my EU flag (veteran of the Oct 2019 London march) to hand You told us before you lived in Wales? Or is that just the holiday home? |
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Post by Old Southendian on May 15, 2022 21:50:21 GMT
She's Queen of Scotland too you know. She's also the Queen of Northern Ireland I guess, but being married to a Northern Irish Catholic means it's the sort of thing I don't shout about. |
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steve
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Post by steve on May 15, 2022 22:04:29 GMT
oldnat What does she anticipate could happen to those fans if they are pursued? It isn't (yet) a crime to be a republican. If it is we're both buggered. mercian It's the least we could expect that an individual paid 15 times as much as the president of the United States and who didn't pay tax at all until they were 68 were adequate at what passes for their job. Nice old lady that Mrs Windsor might be she doesn't deserve respect simply for living a long time.
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domjg
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Posts: 5,138
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Post by domjg on May 15, 2022 22:08:07 GMT
We're from the south of England and the only reason we're still going to be here over the Jubilee is because it suddenly got very expensive to leave the country as leaving did seem to be the most comfortable option. We'll just keep our heads down. If we inadvertently end up at any flag waving events I'll make sure I have my EU flag (veteran of the Oct 2019 London march) to hand You told us before you lived in Wales? Or is that just the holiday home? Er no.. I lived in Wales for a time many years ago but if you look at some of my recent posts it's very clear I'm a denizen of Oxfordshire and have been for over a decade. Last time I checked we only have the one house as well. Not sure why I'm explaining myself to you. |
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steve
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Post by steve on May 15, 2022 22:08:33 GMT
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Post by jib on May 15, 2022 22:14:38 GMT
That's levelling up, the Tory way. |
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steve
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Post by steve on May 15, 2022 22:22:30 GMT
Attachment DeletedWe're living in a regime fantasy land where the people directly responsible for writing and implementing the Northern Ireland protocol are now arguing for it's removal. Remainers repeatedly warned of the dangers in northern Ireland associated with Brexit and were cast as scare mongers by the very same people.Who now seem to be arguing with their own 2016 iterations who assured voters that there would be no downsides with their cunning plan. Time for them to embrace their own lies !
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steve
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Post by steve on May 15, 2022 22:26:58 GMT
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oldnat
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Extremist - Undermining the UK state and its institutions
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Post by oldnat on May 15, 2022 23:05:03 GMT
Monarchic titles - technical note
Lizzie/Brenda (or whatever name she chooses to go under) is even less "Queen of Scotland", than she is "Queen of Mercia". She is "Queen of the UK (and sundry other territorially defined states)".
The Scots royal title refers to the monarch permitted to reign in Scotland, but refers to the people, not the territory. Hence, if we choose to continue with a monarchical system, the monarch will, again, be titled "Queen (or King) of Scots" not "of Scotland".
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2022 23:11:29 GMT
You told us before you lived in Wales? Or is that just the holiday home? Er no.. I lived in Wales for a time many years ago but if you look at some of my recent posts it's very clear I'm a denizen of Oxfordshire and have been for over a decade. Last time I checked we only have the one house as well. Not sure why I'm explaining myself to you. Mmmmm………….. Perhaps, just to clear things up properly (we don’t want to think you’re involved in Welsh money laundering) can you provide photocopies of the deeds of sale for your Welsh holiday home and also for the purchase of your Oxfordshire mansion? Maybe a picture of you in the front room as well? Ta very much. |
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oldnat
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Extremist - Undermining the UK state and its institutions
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Post by oldnat on May 15, 2022 23:15:47 GMT
@crofty
"Welsh money laundering"? Don't be silly. There is no Welsh money. Every penny circulating in Wales is a generous gift from the English taxpayer.
At least, that's what the Trevs used to tell us.
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Post by eor on May 15, 2022 23:21:07 GMT
You're missing them aren't you oldnat ? |
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Post by eor on May 16, 2022 0:00:47 GMT
I would certainly vote to abolish the monarchy, following the death of Elizabeth. But I have some sympathy with Mercian with regard to the forthcoming celebrations (no idea when they are - I have no vested interest as I will still have to walk Rosie and Daisie and practice my music instead of getting a day off.) Anyway, if like me you don’t wish to participate, then the simple answer is - don’t - but just quietly leave it to those who, for whatever reasons, do. And who, I imagine, will get genuine pleasure from joining in with the many others doing so. Paul Nicely put. We literally hid when people were recruiting for a street party for William n Kate's wedding, but if I saw our current neighbours getting folding tables out on Jubilee weekend I'd definitely grab some food or drink to share and go and join them for a bit. Nothing's changed in my attitude to monarchy in that time but recently there have been several (mostly sad) reasons why I'd want to take the chance to join them in a happy evening, even if the official cause isn't my thing. |
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Post by guylemot on May 16, 2022 3:31:36 GMT
Here is a good article on polling strategies in Australia. www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/may/16/will-australias-opinion-polls-be-more-accurate-in-2022-than-at-the-last-election A Labor victory seems possible based on an MRP, though there is some hesitation amongst polling companies based on errors in the 2019 election when polling companies herded around a Labor victory. Part of the article states that a Morrison victory is unlikely due to his unpopularity. I would imagine that Tory strategists are watching this election closely, given the similarities in circumstances between Australia and the UK Conservative and the unpopularity of their respective leaders. |
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steve
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Post by steve on May 16, 2022 3:54:46 GMT
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steve
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Post by steve on May 16, 2022 5:13:17 GMT
In the Kharkhiv region of Ukraine Ukrainians have now pushed the invading Russian forces back into Russia.
Reliable reports suggest 30% of Russian combat forces in Ukraine have now been destroyed or rendered combat ineffective, that's 20% of Russia's entire army.
These level of losses when the opponent remains combat effective with growing logistical support are normally associated with military defeat.
Would not be remotely surprised to see political activity in Russia aimed at removing war criminal Putin.
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Post by alec on May 16, 2022 6:06:48 GMT
UKPR2 quiz question for Monday morning:
1) How many times has Boris Johnson threatened to tear up the NIP?
And for a bonus points, how many times has he failed to do so?
Tiresome.
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Post by jib on May 16, 2022 6:45:18 GMT
In the Kharkhiv region of Ukraine Ukrainians have now pushed the invading Russian forces back into Russia. Reliable reports suggest 30% of Russian combat forces in Ukraine have now been destroyed or rendered combat ineffective, that's 20% of Russia's entire army. These level of losses when the opponent remains combat effective with growing logistical support are normally associated with military defeat. Would not be remotely surprised to see political activity in Russia aimed at removing war criminal Putin. We wish, we wish. But the Russians are a nation of sheeple where (most) dissent has been weeded out by brutal oppression - just remember how quickly placards and protestor disappear on TV reports! Very similar to China. |
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steve
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Post by steve on May 16, 2022 6:49:00 GMT
I never mention football but I'm going to break this rule for my local team Luton Town.
Just 8 years after returning from conference football they are on the cusp of reaching the premier league.
With a team assembled for less than many premier league players earn in a year and with many of the same staff as in the conference days it's a great achievement.
In an area which has its problems they've added some much needed pleasure.
Now back to slagging off the government.
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Danny
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Post by Danny on May 16, 2022 6:58:33 GMT
Especially pleasing is that it annoys some of the more foolish Tories. Conservative MP & former Culture Secretary Karen Bradley said: "It is utterly unacceptable and disgraceful that fans booed Prince William. All necessary action should be taken to pursue those responsible."
What does she anticipate could happen to those fans if they are pursued? It isn't (yet) a crime to be a republican. I would imagine the queen would not be amused, because she must know by know that monarchies today survive on a combination of usefulness and popularity. Putin might arrest protestors against his rule but monarchists in a democracy cannot. Monarchy in the Uk is used as a fig leaf for having an elected dictator without checks, and I have never seen the point per se of a sovereign who holds no sovereignty. Its handy for the PM, not so much for people. Her Majesty deserves respect for the way she has conducted herself for 70 years on the throne. All very well for defending her personally, but a rather weak defence of the institution? There should be a president of the US because Trump did such a good job? It's the least we could expect that an individual paid 15 times as much as the president of the United States and who didn't pay tax at all until they were 68 were adequate at what passes for their job. Nice old lady that Mrs Windsor might be she doesn't deserve respect simply for living a long time. A very poor attack on monarchy to argue about the cost. Every government in the world spends a fortune on the appearance of power. She personally is an actor who just happens to have the starring role in a vast stage production.
There is a wider debate here that the UK system of government is unfit for purpose just about entirely. The US constitution was based upon the UK system, with three competiting elements of real power. It may now be creaking in need of an overhaul, but in the Uk the three party division simply collapsed entirely. We are seeing the results of a non functional constitution which fails to allocate power in accordance with the wishes of the people.
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