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Post by steamdrivenandy on May 16, 2022 7:05:36 GMT
I never mention football but I'm going to break this rule for my local team Luton Town. Just 8 years after returning from conference football they are on the cusp of reaching the premier league. With a team assembled for less than many premier league players earn in a year and with many of the same staff as in the conference days it's a great achievement. In an area which has its problems they've added some much needed pleasure. Now back to slagging off the government. Is it not Watford, who happen to be going in the opposite direction? Of course like all clubs relegated from the Premier League they'll get huge pots of money to be able to buy players who will get them back into the Premier League in a year or two, whilst the other Championship teams are strictly limited on funding. A sort of self perpetuating rump of Premier League pretenders. |
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Danny
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Post by Danny on May 16, 2022 7:13:16 GMT
UKPR2 quiz question for Monday morning: 1) How many times has Boris Johnson threatened to tear up the NIP? And for a bonus points, how many times has he failed to do so? Conservatives won four election on the back of leaver support. Its their best card for the next election too, so obviously they will not settle the agreement before at least the next election. Possibly the one after too, and who knows how many more?
Bexit destroyed the peace settlement in N. Ireland. The DUP were either very stupid or very clever, which do people think? At face value, losing the EU loses the open borders and EU rules which made freedom of trade and travel possible across the Irish border. It was guaranteed to bring forward demands for reunification of Ireland. But on the other hand, the DUP seeing that this was going to happen anyway, might have decided there had to be a return to conflict (not necessarily armed) so as to create a new settlement and cement N. Ireland within the UK. We are now seeing the unallied political parties growing in strength and in particular unionists shrinking. So supporting brexit was a wildcard move, but might work and nothing to lose.
Its hard to see the DUP becoming cooperative now. But aside from the rhetoric, the settlement seems to be doing rather well for N. Ireland. Awkward for the DUP because they need to break that agreement to pieces, and time is therefore not on their side.
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steve
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Post by steve on May 16, 2022 7:14:10 GMT
steamdrivenandy About equidistant. Luton is one of of the only two fooball clubs where I've actually paid to attend ,the others all occurred when I was being paid to be there.
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Post by johntel on May 16, 2022 7:15:31 GMT
oldnat What does she anticipate could happen to those fans if they are pursued? It isn't (yet) a crime to be a republican. If it is we're both buggered. mercian It's the least we could expect that an individual paid 15 times as much as the president of the United States and who didn't pay tax at all until they were 68 were adequate at what passes for their job. Nice old lady that Mrs Windsor might be she doesn't deserve respect simply for living a long time. No, she deserves respect for working hard all her life for the benefit of the country. |
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Post by jimjam on May 16, 2022 7:23:14 GMT
Danny,
''The DUP were either very stupid or very clever, which do people think?''
STUPID - I know you made an alternative suggestion of the LDs re Brexit but cant recall the specifics; for me, though, the DUPs support for Brexit is the biggest miscalculation by any UK political party, against their very Raison D'Etre, in my lifetime and probably since the WW2.
That they fail to grasp that the economic advantage the NIP brings to NI cements the union, putting some symbols of sovereignty first, is further evidence of their incompetence imo.
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Post by barbara on May 16, 2022 7:25:40 GMT
Anent the Jubilee, I care very little about the Queen and her hangers on although I do worry about what we would replace her with if we abolished it. However, the tiny hamlet I live in is having a street party and I will be an enthusiastic participant as I love a party. Similarly I sing Carols with gusto at Christmas despite being a fervent atheist.(although I wouldn't go so far as to wave a union jack or go to church). I go to St Patrick's and St George's day dances as well even though I'm against sainthood.
My view of life is to do what makes you happy while trying your best to cause as little harm to others as possible and if that makes me a hypocrite I can live with that.
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Danny
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Post by Danny on May 16, 2022 7:26:17 GMT
ofgem announces prices reviews to be three monthly. Not exactly news because it was proposed before, and only to come into effect from Jan 2023. If anyone expects price volatility to continue then its an obvious necessary step, because even three months at below cost selling can easily bankrupt a company. The price cap wasnt designed to limit prices, only prevent excessive profits.
Does this mean they will need more civil servants working for them to do four reviews a year insted of two?
If it prevents future bankruptcies, then the main purpose is to relieve financial stress on the remaining big energy companies, now that all their smaller new entrant competitors have been destroyed?
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Post by alec on May 16, 2022 7:30:04 GMT
Helpful thread from Prof Pagel on why excess deaths are not a great way to compare covid performance between countries -
In the case of the UK, because we have poor health outcomes in general compared to many other similar countries, particularly around respiratory diseases, the covid mitigations also prevented many other non covid deaths from infectious conditions where we traditionally perform poorly. This suppressed our excess deaths, masking the effect of covid.
So now, while we have 200 covid deaths a day still, our excess deaths are negative.
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Post by johntel on May 16, 2022 7:31:10 GMT
I never mention football but I'm going to break this rule for my local team Luton Town. Just 8 years after returning from conference football they are on the cusp of reaching the premier league. With a team assembled for less than many premier league players earn in a year and with many of the same staff as in the conference days it's a great achievement. In an area which has its problems they've added some much needed pleasure. Is it not Watford, who happen to be going in the opposite direction? Of course like all clubs relegated from the Premier League they'll get huge pots of money to be able to buy players who will get them back into the Premier League in a year or two, whilst the other Championship teams are strictly limited on funding. A sort of self perpetuating rump of Premier League pretenders. Fully agree with these sentiments. Hope to see you at Wembley steve and for a similar result to 1959  |
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2022 7:42:42 GMT
That they fail to grasp that the economic advantage the NIP brings to NI cements the union, putting some symbols of sovereignty first, is further evidence of their incompetence imo. You might be interested in this analysis of the operational detail of the NIP & their effects ; and the differences between the UK & EU position on current outcomes. It boils down to the EU saying there are no significant economic harms to NI; and UK saying there is no evidence that the SM would be compromised with rogue products. iea.org.uk/publications/38050/I was interested in this observation :- "The EU’s position acknowledges and even actively seeks, trade diversion on a scale that was not the intention of the parties." As previously indicated, I have a suspicion that SF/RoI/EU are quite happy for the NIP to push NI nearer to RoI economically as a route to unification within EU. I wonder whether the IEA authors of the above Report are correct in saying that " the parties" did not intend this. One "party" might have foreseen it-whilst the other didn't think it through properly. |
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Danny
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Post by Danny on May 16, 2022 7:46:23 GMT
In other news, we seem to be discussing war crimes by Russia once again. Large numbers of Ukranian bodies which look to have been executed. The publicity for Russia is terrible. News seems to be suggesting Russians are now mostly out of range of Kharkiv and people returning to the city, so Russia losing at significant obectives.
General Richard Barrons just suggested the outcome now may depend on how well we can keep Ukraine supplied with any war material it needs. Do western governments want Ukraine to have a clear win?
Media discussing a wage-price spiral in the UK. That wage demands are escalatng, not because of sentiment or union power but simply because of labour shortages. And yet immigrant numbers seem to be increasing post brexit, we cannot now keep them out. A bit of a paradox there. I guess a short surge in prices can be ignored by the public, so maybe a year's worth of 10% inflation. But beyond that obviously people need to make good a 10% loss of income. When we get some decent analysis of figures, I expect we will see the same pattern as 2010, that high wage earners will have maintained their income growth wheras poorer paid have lost out. But that could still become 10% rises for the poor to just stand still.
I asked before, but exactly what is it possible for governments or central banks to do to prevent an inflation surge led by import prices, and then extreme dislocation of the labour market pricing? Whatever was done in the 70's 80's frankly accomplished little until the shocks had worked through the system, which took perhaps a decade.
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steve
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Post by steve on May 16, 2022 7:53:39 GMT
@danny It isn't an attack on monarchy as such . I would prefer not to have one but Mrs Windsor seems an adequate example of a hereditary head of state as that's what we've got. It's an attack on people who feel that it's necessary to show deference to an individual whose paid a vast fortune irrespective of their abilities or suitability simply because they are alive. johntel Plenty of people have worked far harder for their communities than the Windsors for vastly less recompense and no accolade at all. I have had friends killed serving the public, nearly died myself doing so so please no false equivalency. |
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neilj
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Post by neilj on May 16, 2022 8:01:51 GMT
That they fail to grasp that the economic advantage the NIP brings to NI cements the union, putting some symbols of sovereignty first, is further evidence of their incompetence imo. You might be interested in this analysis of the operational detail of the NIP & their effects ; and the differences between the UK & EU position on current outcomes. It boils down to the EU saying there are no significant economic harms to NI; and UK saying there is no evidence that the SM would be compromised with rogue products. iea.org.uk/publications/38050/I am sceptical of the reports conclusions and even more sceptical of the Institute of Economic Affairs. It is a pro hard Brexit right wing think tank who were investigated by the Charity Commission. 'The conclusion of the investigation found that one of the IEA's report on Brexit was too political; the regulator told the IEA to remove the report from its website in early November 2018, and issued an official warning in February 2019, requiring trustees to provide written assurances that the IEA would not engage in campaigning or political activity contravening legal or regulatory requirements' Further re the IEA 'In a report it published in July 2018 proposed using Brexit to remove rules protecting agency workers, to deregulate finance, annul the rules on hazardous chemicals and weaken food labelling laws' It also wants to privatise the NHS and there are numerous other issues of concern about it by many people. It's wiki but the issues are all referenced en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institute_of_Economic_Affairs#:~:text=The%20conclusion%20of%20the%20investigation,IEA%20would%20not%20engage%20in |
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steve
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Post by steve on May 16, 2022 8:09:03 GMT
alec Don't want to get into the covid debate again. But fact is both the number dying and case rates world wide are 85% down from ten weeks ago and still falling.The increase case rates in South Africa appears to have plateaued with Death rates remaining thankfully very low. Death rates now are at similar levels as before the WHO declared covid a pandemic and are falling. I fully endorse your view on the parlous state of our health service courtesy of the Tories The most recent ( to the 13th) death data in the UK is a rolling 7 day average of 71 a day so I think the 200 a day is now unlikely to be correct.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2022 8:11:42 GMT
You might be interested in this analysis of the operational detail of the NIP & their effects ; and the differences between the UK & EU position on current outcomes. It boils down to the EU saying there are no significant economic harms to NI; and UK saying there is no evidence that the SM would be compromised with rogue products. iea.org.uk/publications/38050/I am sceptical of the reports conclusions and even more sceptical of the Institute of Economic Affairs. It is a pro hard Brexit right wing think tank who were investigated by the Charity Commission. 'The conclusion of the investigation found that one of the IEA's report on Brexit was too political; the regulator told the IEA to remove the report from its website in early November 2018, and issued an official warning in February 2019, requiring trustees to provide written assurances that the IEA would not engage in campaigning or political activity contravening legal or regulatory requirements' Further re the IEA 'In a report it published in July 2018 proposed using Brexit to remove rules protecting agency workers, to deregulate finance, annul the rules on hazardous chemicals and weaken food labelling laws' It also wants to privatise the NHS and there are numerous other issues of concern about it by many people. It's wiki but the issues are all referenced en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institute_of_Economic_Affairs#:~:text=The%20conclusion%20of%20the%20investigation,IEA%20would%20not%20engage%20in I know what IEA's background is. I thought the analysis of the NIP's current operational effects, and the explanation of the UK-EU positions was interesting and informative. Clearly "conclusions" will be heavily informed by political stances-no less for the EU than for UK-or IEA |
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Post by jib on May 16, 2022 8:14:29 GMT
alec"So now, while we have 200 covid deaths a day still, our excess deaths are negative." The next wave is apparently brewing, and numbers are up in South Africa. I intend enjoying the summer however, even if we will inevitably be back in the COVID mire by late autumn.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2022 8:17:11 GMT
It's an attack on people who feel that it's necessary to show deference to an individual whose paid a vast fortune irrespective of their abilities or suitability simply because they are alive. Doesn't "deference" essentially arise through "respect". ? Aren't you really worrying about "obeisance" , " homage" or "allegience" to the Monarchy? I'm no historian, but I believe all of that disappeared over 300 years ago:- en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_of_Rights_1689#:~:text=The%20Bill%20of%20Rights%201689,next%20to%20inherit%20the%20Crown. |
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Post by jimjam on May 16, 2022 8:34:47 GMT
I think we can all accept that the IEA has a particular view of the world and the UK within it which informs their analysis.
Whilst like Neil I read the report with this in mind it does nontheless give a useful insight in to intellectual Brexiteer thinking around the NIP.
As I see it given that protecting the GFA is the most important consideration, maintaining no border between NI and ROI must be the main driver.
That the DUP could not see this and may have calculated that the GFA, which they tolerate but don't embrace, would have to be changed due to Brexit is bizarre imo.
I expect this to rumble on until the next GE when a different UK Government (should there be one) would increase formal cooperation with the EU as it relates to NI.
Of course Brexiteers may see as a trojan horse which I don't think it is; although it could provide a template for further GB/EU alignment in the future.
I think this is what Brexiteers are fearful of and sadly NI, as is often the case, becomes entangled in these wider manoevers.
All the while there is no resolution supply chains slowly move away from GB-NI to ROI-NI.
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Post by crossbat11 on May 16, 2022 9:02:39 GMT
steve
As you know, I hardly ever mention football either, but since you've broken your self-imposed purdah, I will do so too!
A word about the other Hatters; Stockport County. I have two reasons for being pleased about their long overdue return to the Football League yesterday, and neither of them have anything to do do with any connection I have to the club, either emotionally or geographically. The first reason is entirely a sentimental one. Since their relegation to the Conference 14 years ago, they have plumbed depths and indignities that few former long standing members of the Football League have. They slipped down to the sixth tier of the game for a while and flirted many times with insolvency, yet they have survived it all and, along with their large and loyal band of fans, now have their just rewards for their long endurance and perserverence.
They had over 10,000 packed into their famous old Edgerley Park ground yesterday, there to witness the securing of promotion and the National League Premier title with a comfortable win against another venerable old league side, FC Halifax.
The second reason for my delight is that my youngest son, a resident of Stockport, now has a Football League club on his doorstep. He lives about a mile from Edgerley Park and I fully expect invitations, and tickets too, to join him for a few matches next season. The derby against Salford City should be a banger!
A toast to both Hatters then but, like johntel, I'm rooting for Forest in the play offs. No shades of Roy Dwight either. Joe Lolley, a Forest player, is a mate of one of my sons. A Redditch born lad and Villa fan to boot too. Come on Joe!
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Post by bardin1 on May 16, 2022 9:07:56 GMT
Monarchic titles - technical note
Lizzie/Brenda (or whatever name she chooses to go under) is even less "Queen of Scotland", than she is "Queen of Mercia". She is "Queen of the UK (and sundry other territorially defined states)".
The Scots royal title refers to the monarch permitted to reign in Scotland, but refers to the people, not the territory. Hence, if we choose to continue with a monarchical system, the monarch will, again, be titled "Queen (or King) of Scots" not "of Scotland". Indeed - or as Dougie Maclean put it "You cannot own the land, the land owns you" |
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Post by jimjam on May 16, 2022 9:08:29 GMT
CB, and once again Stockport County become the football league club with their home ground closest to the River Mersey.
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Danny
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Post by Danny on May 16, 2022 9:09:52 GMT
In the case of the UK, because we have poor health outcomes in general compared to many other similar countries, particularly around respiratory diseases, the covid mitigations also prevented many other non covid deaths from infectious conditions where we traditionally perform poorly. This suppressed our excess deaths, masking the effect of covid. So now, while we have 200 covid deaths a day still, our excess deaths are negative. You still dont grasp the idea that the whole aim of calculating excess deaths is to subtract away deaths which would have happened anyway, whether thats because we have a foggy country prone to colds or any other reason.
How's you position on whether creating a world recession was worth it as the cost for the health improvements achieved by lockdown? What do we estimate will be the death toll from the recession?
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Post by bardin1 on May 16, 2022 9:12:16 GMT
steve As you know, I hardly ever mention football either, but since you've broken your self-imposed purdah, I will do so too! A word about the other Hatters; Stockport County. I have two reasons for being pleased about their long overdue return to the Football League yesterday, and neither of them have anything to do do with any connection I have to the club, either emotionally or geographically. The first reason is entirely a sentimental one. Since their relegation to the Conference 14 years ago, they have plumbed depths and indignities that few former long standing members of the Football League have. They slipped down to the sixth tier of the game for a while and flirted many times with insolvency, yet they have survived it all and, along with their large and loyal band of fans, now have their just rewards for their long endurance and perserverence. They had over 10,000 packed into their famous old Edgerley Park ground yesterday, there to witness the securing of promotion and the National League Premier title with a comfortable win against another venerable old league side, FC Halifax. The second reason for my delight is that my youngest son, a resident of Stockport, now has a Football League club on his doorstep. He lives about a mile from Edgerley Park and I fully expect invitations, and tickets too, to join him for a few matches next season. The derby against Salford City should be a banger! A toast to both Hatters then but, like johntel, I'm rooting for Forest in the play offs. No shades of Roy Dwight either. Joe Lolley, a Forest player, is a mate of one of my sons. A Redditch born lad and Villa fan to boot too. Come on Joe! Nice to hear that - my brother( a musician but at that point also a teacher at Manchester Grammar ) lived in Stockport for about 20 years. I really enjoyed it as a place to live and I took in a couple of the games at Edgerley Park - good cheap local beer in the local pubs too, IIRC |
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Danny
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Post by Danny on May 16, 2022 9:13:02 GMT
As I see it given that protecting the GFA is the most important consideration, maintaining no border between NI and ROI must be the main driver. That the DUP could not see this and may have calculated that the GFA, which they tolerate but don't embrace, would have to be changed due to Brexit is bizarre imo. The DUP must by now have realised that the GFA will end in Irish reunification. So they need to break it. Thats what this is all about. |
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Post by crossbat11 on May 16, 2022 9:19:55 GMT
On the forthcoming Jubilee kerfuffle , I'm somewhere between eor and crofty on it all. I'm entirely relaxed. It doesn't mean anything to me at all and I can't get remotely excited about it, but many will no doubt, and good luck to them. If there's a decent street party and knees up going on locally, I'll no doubt participate. Like most people attending I expect, I'll be there for the social interaction and jollity rather than anything to do with monarchs and royal fripperies.
The danger will come no doubt with right wing tabloids, commentators and shock jocks attempting to make it, tiresomely, into a cultural wedge issue. They'll try and spot the wokeists and miserablists amongst us. Metropolitan elitists refusing to join the national celebration. We'll be sneering at ordinary people again, Piers will no doubt be telling us.
National anthem mumblers and non poppy wearing Britain haters, beware. They'll be coming for you soon.
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Post by robbiealive on May 16, 2022 9:44:30 GMT
I'm quite happy if people bore on about football or anything else on this thread.
Gary Neville tried to build a ground for his Salford United on land which is is say 400 yds from the Mersey. If this application had succeeded it would have been the closest? assuming Salford FC are in the league.
Could I add that there is a v posh amateur football & existent ground near me -- I've forgotten its name -- which is say 300-400 yds from the Mersey. There is a cricket ground which ia 100 yards away & golf courses which are at their extremities no more than 20 yards away. I know of no tennis courts or bowling greens in close proximity. There are foot bridges which are several feet away -- and which as they are used by cyclists, hikers & I regret to say horses & even tracker bikes & could thus be said to have sporting associations -- tho the number of feet varies with the quantiy of rain upstream.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2022 10:11:40 GMT
Pedant alert : I believe Stockport County's home ground is known as Edgeley Park (without an 'r'). And by way of embracing robbiealive's footie indulgence above, I offer a little football trivia question for Monday morning to sharpen the little grey cells. I believe this still to be accurate, but will gladly acknowledge if it is not. Which two teams played in front of the biggest postwar FA Cup crowd outside of Wembley? |
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Post by alec on May 16, 2022 10:21:09 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2022 10:21:16 GMT
Pedant alert : I believe Stockport County's home ground is known as Edgeley Park (without an 'r'). I was based near Manchester for a while, in my guitar playing and singing days, and around 1970 my brother and I played a big nightclub in Stockport where we were on performing our spot, just before Max Wall appeared. Even that long ago he already seemed a very old fashioned act with his speciality walking etc. I have vague memories of Gillingham v Stockport matches in the ‘60s in the old fourth division, when all the Northern teams had, what I thought of at the time, funny Northern accents. |
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steve
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Post by steve on May 16, 2022 10:23:56 GMT
@jimjam
Without cheating which football club is closest to the Thames.
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