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Post by jib on Sept 4, 2022 9:41:37 GMT
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Post by hireton on Sept 4, 2022 9:44:19 GMT
Trussonomics in action:
She might reflect but won't that the UK has amongst the highest income inequality and lowest productivity in Europe.
Interesting return to trickle down economics and essentially a departure from the levelling up agenda.
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Post by barbara on Sept 4, 2022 9:46:25 GMT
alec - I've messaged you privately re seeking some advice about oil heating.
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Post by shevii on Sept 4, 2022 9:49:50 GMT
steve Now I'm on the Road to Wembley, I'm taking the victors of the first round game yesterday (Redditch United) into the 2nd Qualifying Round. This could, if the draw tomorrow determines so, involve a game at the Metropolitan Police. Your old boys drew with Corinthian yesterday and could progress if they win the replay. If this tie does transpire, I trust you will help me get the best tickets in the house and, if need be, some access to the good natured hospitality associated with the capital's boys in blue. Grace and favours too. Exemption from a body search perhaps, and being issued with some anti-tasering PPE; useful in the event of things not going well for the Met on the field of play. I hear they have a large hooligan firm. Not Police as they are more commonly known have a tidy little ground in the middle of nowhere but I'm not sure if there would be a best tickets in the house. Worth bringing your sports gear as when we were looking for the bar we stumbled across what I think was a squash or badminton court so you may be able to blag a game if you can convince them you are based at Redditch cop shop, visiting Hampton Court trying to build a case against Prince Andrew, and have forgotten your warrant card. Quite a plush bar. And yes they have heard all the songs a million times so are unlikely to think "oh that's a new one" and unlikely to care anyway as none of them are police. |
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Post by robbiealive on Sept 4, 2022 10:07:31 GMT
Re Truss's reneging on labour laws/ As the immediate gains from Brexit have proved illusory (the disbenefits indeed seem rather greater) its supporters have fallen back on the more abstract "at least we control our own laws" type of argument/ It doesn't seem to have occurred to Brexiteers that EU regs gave them important protections or that the laws could be used against them. I don't remember to what degree the Remain campaign made reference to such issues & whether it featured in in Corbyn's rather lacklustre campaign. No doubt if it & he did emphasise it they were told it was Project Fear. Likewise, while Brexiteers could see EU federalist plots around every corner there was no recognition that for the extreme right of the Tory party -- now so abundantly represented in the proposed cabinet -- saw Brexit as merely a staging-post in their machinations to increase their power.
Any attempt to remove protections will unite the opposition parties: it would provide an opportunity for Starmer to express an unequivocal opposition on a legalistic subject he would be good at.
Speaking of the Cabinet I note two words are missing from the proposed list: Badenoch: education. Badenoch has not formally endorsed Truss which seems a sine qua non for inclusion in the putative list. I hope whomever is appointed will not be consumed by the War on Woke in schools or other nonsense: but I fear the worst. Whatever is holding back kids in schools it is not teachers' supposed wokism.
PS. My friend who teaches in a primary school with many Muslim kids says they and their families are deeply concerned about the devastating effects of floods in Pakistan & are engaging in fund-raising activities. News about the floods is scanty indeed: but as has been reported Pakistanis are paying a huge price for climate change (excessive heat has been the main cause) that they didn't create.
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Post by somerjohn on Sept 4, 2022 10:08:16 GMT
Colin: "
They would carry more credibility from you , however ,if they were accompanied by similar observations about the myopic , self serving foreign and energy policy , over many years, of the EU's largest and most powerful member, which facilitated this economic war by Putin on Europe's Industrial base and families."1. A classic bit of whataboutery. 2. UK per capita consumption of gas is higher than Germany, ie pro rata we contribute more to total European gas demand. 3. You asked "Do you think that the reality and consequences of Putin's subsequent actions in Germany and Ukraine could have been imagined then ?" I assume your answer to that (in defence of Johnson's govt) is 'No'. So why doesn't the same "they couldn't have known" defence apply to Germany. 4. My comment was about the failure of the UK to recognise an actual price crisis that was already affecting our neighbours, and whose impact on UK consumers was only disguised by the price cap: a dam that was bound to break. 5. What did the UK, as a leading EU member, do to highlight this "myopic , self serving foreign and energy policy". Did we push the case for an EU energy policy limiting over-dependence on a single source? Or was the whole thrust of UK policy to prefer to leave it to market forces and individual national policy?
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Post by hireton on Sept 4, 2022 10:14:20 GMT
Re Truss's reneging on labour laws/ As the immediate gains from Brexit have proved illusory (the disbenefits indeed seem rather greater) its supporters have fallen back on the more abstract "at least we control our own laws" type of argument/ It doesn't seem to have occurred to Brexiteers that EU regs gave them important protections or that the laws could be used against them. I don't remember to what degree the Remain campaign made reference to such issues & whether it featured in in Corbyn's rather lacklustre campaign. No doubt if it & he did emphasise it they were told it was Project Fear. Likewise, while Brexiteers could see EU federalist plots around every corner there was no recognition that for the extreme right of the Tory party -- now so abundantly represented in the proposed cabinet -- saw Brexit as merely a staging-post in their machinations to increase their power. Any attempt to remove protections will unite the opposition parties: it would provide an opportunity for Starmer to express an unequivocal opposition on a legalistic subject he would be good at. Speaking of the Cabinet I note two words are missing from the proposed list: Badenoch: education. Badenoch has not formally endorsed Truss which seems a sine qua non for inclusion in the putative list. I hope whomever is appointed will not be consumed by the War on Woke in schools or other nonsense: but I fear the worst. Whatever is holding back kids in schools it is not teachers' supposed wokism. PS. My friend who teaches in a primary school with many Muslim kids says they and their families are deeply concerned about the devastating effects of floods in Pakistan & are engaging in fund-raising activities. News about the floods is scanty indeed: but as has been reported Pakistanis are paying a huge price for climate change (excessive heat has been the main cause) that they didn't create. And "friends of Lord Frost" will be shocked and disapponited that his immense talents and track record of success have not, it seems, be recognised. |
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Post by hireton on Sept 4, 2022 10:21:21 GMT
@olnat Some constituencies had no voters at all, primarily because no one actually lived there. Remarkably the selected candidate had both 0% and conceivably 100% of the electorate and 100% or conceivably 0% of the available vote all at the same time. Lord Palmerston was elected to the HoC for the pocket borough of Newport. The one condition of its patron, Sir Leonard Holmes, in handing him the seat was that Palmerston should never visit the constituency. |
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Post by crossbat11 on Sept 4, 2022 10:34:56 GMT
shevii
Thanks for the travel advice. It's a long shot but, should my route take me via the Met Police, I will take heed of what you say.
As a football fan, like me, you've probably heard and sung all the standard chants. I heard a good variation of a standard one at Rushall Olympic yesterday. Directed at the home support by the travelling army of 10 Redditch fans, including me, we gave them a rendition of, "You're just a bus stop in Walsall." Faintly amusing for us but not well received by the home faithful.
Mind you, our fairly innocent "Cheerio, cheerio.." refrain to the departing sent off Rushall centre forward didn't go down too well either. He offered one of our number outside the ground once he'd showered and changed (the player, not the Redditch fan). Thankfully this duel didn't materialise.
I'd left by another exit by then anyway.
Grass roots football in the raw. Loved it.
Pity I missed our home draw against City, but that's a whole different world.
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Post by alec on Sept 4, 2022 10:35:30 GMT
barbara - lengthy reply posted privately.
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steve
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Post by steve on Sept 4, 2022 10:38:28 GMT
crossbat11 It will be difficult to win when the team coach is in elephant and castle car pound.
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Post by alec on Sept 4, 2022 10:40:22 GMT
colin - I don't think you should be quite so critical of somerjohn's take on gas prices - he was well ahead of everyone on that, and the fundamental point - that the UK government has for a very long time (pre and post Ukraine invasion) failed to initiate any forms of protection against price shocks. Our levels of storage are woeful, and unlike Germany in particular, and the wider EU as a whole, the advice from the Conservatives is that energy savings are a matter for the individual, rather than a reason for a huge, coordinated national effort to pursue demand reduction wherever possible as a way to both defeat Putin and protect against higher prices. All governments have made failures here of one sort or another, but none have been quite so dogmatically inactive in the face of a raging storm as ours.
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Post by crossbat11 on Sept 4, 2022 10:40:41 GMT
crossbat11 It will be difficult to win when the team coach is in elephant and castle car pound. Dastardly trick, Steve, but not surprising. Trumped up parking offences are par for the course for the Met. |
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Post by alec on Sept 4, 2022 10:43:34 GMT
Just on the issue of energy bills, one point worth making is that many, if not most households, won't see the massive bills predicted by a simple conversion of average demand under the new price caps. The simple reason for that is that there will be a substantial demand reduction, because there will have to be.
We may well see an end to householders drifting round in t-shirts in January, with the curtains wide open at night, in a house set to 22C, because they won't be able to afford it.
This won't apply to all, obviously, and shouldn't be taken as a glib minimizing of the crisis, but there are huge opportunities for permanent improvements in efficiency here.
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Post by bardin1 on Sept 4, 2022 10:50:14 GMT
shevii Thanks for the travel advice. It's a long shot but, should my route take me via the Met Police, I will take heed of what you say. As a football fan, like me, you've probably heard and sung all the standard chants. I heard a good variation of a standard one at Rushall Olympic yesterday. Directed at the home support by the travelling army of 10 Redditch fans, including me, we gave them a rendition of, "You're just a bus stop in Walsall." Faintly amusing for us but not well received by the home faithful. Mind you, our fairly innocent "Cheerio, cheerio.." refrain to the departing sent off Rushall centre forward didn't go down too well either. He offered one of our number outside the ground once he'd showered and changed (the player, not the Redditch fan). Thankfully this duel didn't materialise. I'd left by another exit by then anyway. Grass roots football in the raw. Loved it. Pity I missed our home draw against City, but that's a whole different world. Non league football is the place to be down south. When I lived in Kingston used to go along to the Kingstonian games - we would sing to our less well developed suburban rivals (to the tune of the Red Flag). How many other sports would have the word 'pedestrianised' in one of their songs? The grass is green, The sky is blue, The River Thames goes winding through, The town centre's pedestrianised, It's about time you realised, A finer town you'll never see, A finer team will never be We're the pride of South London |
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Post by jib on Sept 4, 2022 10:51:39 GMT
Just on the issue of energy bills, one point worth making is that many, if not most households, won't see the massive bills predicted by a simple conversion of average demand under the new price caps. The simple reason for that is that there will be a substantial demand reduction, because there will have to be. We may well see an end to householders drifting round in t-shirts in January, with the curtains wide open at night, in a house set to 22C, because they won't be able to afford it. This won't apply to all, obviously, and shouldn't be taken as a glib minimizing of the crisis, but there are huge opportunities for permanent improvements in efficiency here. Alec, as always, it will be the poor that suffer the most. However, a lot of retired people living in large inefficient houses are going to really struggle. Really tough times ahead. Anecdotally, chimney sweeps round here run off their feet as people prepare to switch to coal and wood. |
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Post by somerjohn on Sept 4, 2022 11:14:58 GMT
Alec: "colin - I don't think you should be quite so critical of somerjohn's take on gas prices"
Thanks for the support.
As I replied to Colin, I think the questions of the UK's failure to react speedily and pre-emptively to the actual gas price crisis developing a year ago; and Germany's long-term failure to recognise (or, at least, act on) the hypothetical risk of over-reliance on Russian gas, were different and separate issues. For clarity, I try to focus on one thing at a time.
However, Colin's point does remind me that I have long championed the case - and occasionally made it on UKPR1 - for an EU Common Energy Policy, on the lines of the CAP. That is to say, with a common external tariff on energy imports, based on their carbon content. The aims of that include promoting the transition to renewables; promoting domestic energy production instead of imports; facilitating a rapid, co-ordinated response to global energy crises; facilitating the most efficient, cost-effective systems for energy production and distribution across the EU.
That was, naturally, anathema to eurosceptics, who preferred a market-driven approach with each country doing its own thing. Which Germany did, to great effect and Colin's hindsight-driven schadenfreude.
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Sept 4, 2022 11:16:19 GMT
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Post by jayblanc on Sept 4, 2022 11:28:00 GMT
Liz Truss has basically announced that she'll be reintroducing the policy of "Trickle Down Economics", on the basis that giving the rich tax cuts will be good for the economy, and that eventually that'll get down to the poor people too.
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steve
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Post by steve on Sept 4, 2022 11:34:58 GMT
alec Millions of elderly people in sheltered housing and council flats will have gas supplies by a central boiler, normally this is included in the rental charge it was for the three such properties my mother lived in. Despite the fact it's clearly a domestic supply it isn't classes as such and ofgen caps don't apply consequently the provider of the accommodation could well be faced with a price rise of over 300%! This is going to get passed on to some of the people least able to afford it.
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steve
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Post by steve on Sept 4, 2022 11:39:25 GMT
According to cosplay Thatcher
It is fair to prioritise tax cuts that benefit the highest earners 250 times more than the poorest, Liz Truss has said, insisting it is wrong to view all economic policy through the “lens of redistribution”.
Disregarding the callous disregard for suffering this is also internally illogical as it involves redistribution from the poor to the rich.
About as close as possible without saying the words to fuck the poor they deserve it
Parr for another Tory waste of skin.
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steve
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Post by steve on Sept 4, 2022 11:59:25 GMT
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Post by Mark on Sept 4, 2022 12:48:56 GMT
New polling thread coming very, very soon (next few hours). Apologies for the tardiness. Due to personal circumstances, I'm behind on everything and am now catching up.
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Post by shevii on Sept 4, 2022 12:50:36 GMT
Non league football is the place to be down south. When I lived in Kingston used to go along to the Kingstonian games - we would sing to our less well developed suburban rivals (to the tune of the Red Flag). How many other sports would have the word 'pedestrianised' in one of their songs? That's my London team but sadly £100 plus on the train makes more than an occasional visit impossible really and Chorley or Wigan a much cheaper option. A sad story of 3 years in the Conference, two FA Trophy wins, then relegation and bankruptcy. Ground picked up by an asset stripper for £500,000 and flogged a year later to newly formed AFC Wimbledon for £2.5m, who then sold the ground to Chelsea Ladies for about £6m giving Kingstonian £1m to find a ground in London and they have been homeless ever since and down to 200 regulars these days. Not the only club to have suffered this, especially non league teams in prime housing areas. steve was deflecting with his impounding the team coach- everyone who goes to Met Police knows they have to just get something on the referee, and opposition fans will state this theory that they have loudly throughout the game. But crossbat11 can use that one seeing as Redditch fans will just be working out their police jokes and might take a while to get to that one. No need to thank me Batty for the adulation you'll get from your visiting comrades :-) |
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Post by bardin1 on Sept 4, 2022 12:58:19 GMT
That's my London team but sadly £100 plus on the train makes more than an occasional visit impossible really and Chorley or Wigan a much cheaper option. A sad story of 3 years in the Conference, two FA Trophy wins, then relegation and bankruptcy. Ground picked up by an asset stripper for £500,000 and flogged a year later to newly formed AFC Wimbledon for £2.5m, who then sold the ground to Chelsea Ladies for about £6m giving Kingstonian £1m to find a ground in London and they have been homeless ever since and down to 200 regulars these days. Not the only club to have suffered this, especially non league teams in prime housing areas. steve was deflecting with his impounding the team coach- everyone who goes to Met Police knows they have to just get something on the referee, and opposition fans will state this theory that they have loudly throughout the game. But crossbat11 can use that one seeing as Redditch fans will just be working out their police jokes and might take a while to get to that one. No need to thank me Batty for the adulation you'll get from your visiting comrades :-) I was involved in that whole mess as I worked for the council at the time - a very sad affair made possible by government's failure to grasp the idea that football teams represent a community asset not a property to be asset stripped. On the plus side encouraged me to get involved in trying to get Hearts over to fan ownership during our dark days I have met you in the bar during the Khosla years |
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Post by jimjam on Sept 4, 2022 12:59:59 GMT
Steve - please delete the first sentence in your recent post.
Conflating what the current Home Secretary is doing, no matter how egregious you may see it, with Genocide of Jews, Romany and systematic eradication of Homosexuals and the disabled is inappropriate; and I would suggest Anti-Semitic and discriminatory towards the targets of Nazism I have mentioned and others as the equating downplays their sufferring.
I don't for one moment believe it is deliberate by you but it is ill-considered at the very least.
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steve
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Post by steve on Sept 4, 2022 13:58:00 GMT
@jimjam
I've removed the word you apparently found egregious .
However deliberately endangering the lives of the innocent disadvantaged and "alien" simply to get a favourable headline in the right wing press has massive similarities with the rise of fascism in the 1930's. Your equating a comment on a government policy as somehow implying anything more is quite bizarre given there's absolutely nothing to indicate from this regime that they are in any way staunch defenders of protecting minority groups, unless you consider Tory party doners as a minority group.
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alurqa
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Post by alurqa on Sept 4, 2022 14:07:02 GMT
New polling thread coming very, very soon (next few hours). Apologies for the tardiness. Due to personal circumstances, I'm behind on everything and am now catching up. Keep up the good work, Mark . I've no complaints. It's thanks to you we have a site. :-)
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Post by laszlo4new on Sept 4, 2022 14:12:22 GMT
Steve - please delete the first sentence in your recent post. Conflating what the current Home Secretary is doing, no matter how egregious you may see it, with Genocide of Jews, Romany and systematic eradication of Homosexuals and the disabled is inappropriate; and I would suggest Anti-Semitic and discriminatory towards the targets of Nazism I have mentioned and others as the equating downplays their sufferring. I don't for one moment believe it is deliberate by you but it is ill-considered at the very least. - restricting Hitler to the Holocaust and the rest is not a smaller error than the error by steve . It is very complicated (obviously not the genocide) - smaller letters and italics. The final solution (Holocaust) became policy only after the defeat under Moscow . The extermination of the disabled and banning people with the "wrong genes" were discussed in Parliament in Sweden (it went further there) and in the UK (genetism - there is a quietness about them). You might have missed and it was 800 years ago: www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(22)01355-0
Hitler's main policies before 1935 were helping competitiveness of German companies, cutting corporate tax, obstructing workers from forming independent trade unions, banning protests, banning any view that could be considered s offensive to the national reputation, etc.
End of complications. Now, Patel expressed Hindutva views translated to the English contexts a number of times. |
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Post by ptarmigan on Sept 4, 2022 14:24:27 GMT
bardin1 sheviiJust wanted to add to the Kingstonian appreciation society. I've never remotely been a regular (more a couple of times a season sort of matchgoer) but I grew up in Kingston so I've always regarded Ks (or is it K's? A bone of contention among the fanbase!) as my non-league side and try to go and see them from time to time, although having moved a bit further out west, it's easier for me to go to Aldershot or Woking for a non-league football fix these days. It's very sad what's happened since the Conference era. I was at the final match at Kingsmeadow and have made the odd trek to the temporary homes since (suspect I'll also try to get to a couple of games at Mitcham this season) but the longer this nomadic existence goes on the more concerned I grow about the club's future.
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