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Post by graham on Sept 3, 2022 1:12:32 GMT
ptarmigan Are you saying that these times are more desperate than the banking crisis of 2007, or the exit from the ERM in 1992(?) or the hyperinflation of the late '70s, or WWII? I'm not talking about philosophy, just practicalities. Whether tory instincts have changed or not is irrelevant. The fact is that handing out subsidies to every household is a very left-wing measure IMO. Not that I'm not grateful, but if it means my descendants will be saddled with massive government debt, maybe not such a good idea? When did we have hyperinflation in the late 1970s? Inflation - as measured by RPI - peaked at 26% - 27% inthe summer of 1975. The last full year of the Callaghan government - 1978 - saw RPI inflation of circa 8% - rising to 10.2% when Thatcher took office in May 1979. Current RPI inflation is 12.4%. |
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Post by alec on Sept 3, 2022 6:56:02 GMT
Good example of the slow pace of change in the UK - www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/sep/03/energy-citizenship-europes-communities-forging-a-low-carbon-futureEurope has been onto community renewables for a while now, with some countries seeing this as normal. In the UK, it's a very tough path to take, and the option for community scale self supply is almost impossible. The barriers that prevent local generation projects from piggybacking on the grid to sell direct to local owners/consumers of generation stations are huge and insurmountable. It's crazy. Up until the energy crisis, power purchase agreement prices for mid scale renewables projects were around 4 - 5p/kWh, with retail prices around 15- 18p including additional network charges, with the balance being trousered as profit by the energy retailers. If a small local generation company could sell direct to consumers, using time of use tariffs to promote demand shifting to maximise local consumption of the output, then community owned projects could secure incomes of 8 - 12p/kWh, vastly enhancing the viability of new build renewables. On top of this, the consumers get cheaper energy, at prices that could be fixed locally, so immunising them to an extent from global energy shocks. All that is needed is a fall back to normal grid supplies. This can't happen under current UK regulation which imposes huge bureaucratic burdens on anyone wishing to set up as an energy supplier. Alongside the unwillingness of the private sector National Grid and District Network Suppliers to invest in the grid infrastructure to enable more distributed generation, this is a revolution still waiting to happen in the UK. We've had such feeble, unimaginative politicians in power for the last 12 years they have put the country back decades. They talk about the left behinds, the strivers and leveling up, but they really haven't a clue about what communities need and they really don't give a toss, other than inventing catchy soundbites. They support big business and that's that. I have no doubt whatsoever that had we had people like Ed Milliband anywhere near our energy and climate change policies, the UK would now be in a far, far better place to weather the current twin storms of de-carbonisation and the energy crisis, but we've been stuck with total duffers in government for so long we've forgotten what sensible government looks like. |
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Post by moby on Sept 3, 2022 7:07:43 GMT
Well, the point of the polling is that many of Corbyn’s policies weren’t so leftist, they are more centrist, and more so now. Only 8 percent want to keep utilities in private hands, and you might be in that 8%. And another issue with waiting to the last minute for policies is that it’s useful to be able to plan for what’s coming instead of being ambushed. And it seems to be ok to examine Tory policies. Starmer does have some policies, I’ve posted about a few, which aroused very little interest. Get more interest posting stuff from the Telegraph. When you have finished the first draft of Labour's 2024 manifesto send it to me. I have an international reputation for my ability to improve such things. Make sure you give it a rigorous editing as well otherwise we'll spend the next 5 years speculating and talking policy instead of doing stuff. |
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Post by hireton on Sept 3, 2022 7:20:47 GMT
And the grift goes on:
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Sept 3, 2022 7:22:25 GMT
ptarmigan"...the fact we have a right wing Tory government..." I know that this is what is commonly said, but I can't remember any government of whatever stripe giving money away to every household, which is what is happening now. I might be misunderstanding, but to me that is a very left-wing measure. Like with furlough any govt of any stripe would need to do it in the emergency situation if they don't want society and the economy literally coming apart at the seams and mass disorder. |
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Sept 3, 2022 7:30:35 GMT
When you have finished the first draft of Labour's 2024 manifesto send it to me. I have an international reputation for my ability to improve such things. Make sure you give it a rigorous editing as well otherwise we'll spend the next 5 years speculating and talking policy instead of doing stuff. You kind of need to know what the policy is to know what stuff to do, Moby! Otherwise can be a case of: “let’s do ‘stuff!’” “Ok, what shall we do?” “Dunno” Btw, regarding the link you gave on equality, without further analysis from you except to say it was pretty decent... it really isn’t very good. Obvious alarm bells arise when you realise it’s a look at Blair’s own analysis of his own performance. Not least because he gets to set the terms of reference. To give an example, ok so say he takes 300,000 children out of poverty. You might think that’s pretty decent, compared to a right wing Thatch perspective, but from a left wing perspective it’s still very worrying. Because if you just get someone just above the poverty line, then they may still be struggling. And if it’s via welfare then the parents don’t get the benefits of employment, or have a path to a better future to provide for their children. This is the problem of a right-wing perspective. It’s often about doing the bare minimum so people can just about survive. As opposed to good jobs for all, cheap essentials etc. that allow substantial and ongoing improvement. Also, where’s the fizz? You said people at Oxford were fizzing with ideas. You ask me for my ideas, then when I give them complain I’m talking about policy and don’t give your own. Still, if it’s only going to be what Blair says... ( alec has a point about Oxford and he does have quite some fizz himself) |
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Post by domjg on Sept 3, 2022 7:31:27 GMT
ptarmigan Are you saying that these times are more desperate than the banking crisis of 2007, or the exit from the ERM in 1992(?) or the hyperinflation of the late '70s, or WWII? I'm not talking about philosophy, just practicalities. Whether tory instincts have changed or not is irrelevant. The fact is that handing out subsidies to every household is a very left-wing measure IMO. Not that I'm not grateful, but if it means my descendants will be saddled with massive government debt, maybe not such a good idea? Yes obviously as without intervention half the country would be pushed towards defaulting with the collapse of the economy. The war was all about govt intervention in all areas of society. It's part of the reason Labour won their stonking majority in '45 as people could see that massive state guidance could work. |
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Post by moby on Sept 3, 2022 7:36:45 GMT
fullfact.org/economy/labour-inequality-1997-2010/That's actually pretty good imo and has to be seen in the context of what is realistic in a socially conservative country which has a dominant right of centre party which is usually in Govmt. If you wish to emphasis the fact that inequality still increases and that is not a good enough record.....show us your plan @carefrew; show us how a more equal society is electorally possible in Britain? Apologies in advance for the ramble... I think my inclination with this is to approach it from a slightly different perspective and to question the idea that the UK is a socially conservative country, because I'm not fully convinced it is especially, and I think this idea perhaps inhibits LOC parties from being bolder. I do think many - maybe most - people are instinctively small c conservatives, but I think this is true wherever you go and I don't really see that our values are very far removed from a lot of countries which happily elect centre left and socially democratic governments. You do have quite a divergence of opinion in the UK based on age (young/old) and geography (rural/urban) but this is also not unusual. And whereas there are some issues such as crime and immigration where recent governments have tended to govern to the left of public opinion, there are other examples where UK governments have tended to govern to the right. I think you can point (as carfrew has) to issues such as renationalisation and the popularity of a lot of the individual policies in the last Labour manifesto as evidence that there is something of an appetite for more redistributive and egalitarian policies in this country. I think what we do have in the UK is a couple of major barriers to a more progressive politics. The first is that the UK media landscape is very right wing and media outlets have the ability to distort and misrepresent issues. The second is that we have an outdated and unrepresentative electoral system which in no way reflects how the country actually votes. So, for example, the fact we have a right wing Tory government with a large majority would, at first sight, seem to indicate that the public are particularly enthusiastic about their brand of conservatism, but the fact that they garnered 40%-odd of the vote and that this vote was heavily concentrated in a particular demographic (over-65s) tells a slightly different story. In essence, I think the starting position should be that there is an audience for more progressive politics, whilst recognising there are some very significant, though not totally insurmountable obstacles, when it comes to selling LOC policies. As much as I don't really pretend to have all the answers, I do think there are a few things that those advocating a more left wing agenda can do. One of the more straightforward things, I think, is to sharpen up on the messaging front. I think Labour can learn some lessons from 2019 here where the continued policy announcements came across as rather jumbled and incoherent. The presentational aspect is hugely important in politics. They shouldn't have been selling their policy programme as radical, but as common sense solutions to real issues that people face and should have had a grand theme to build around, rather than scattershot ideas. I think there are so many ways in which it's possible to improve engagement with LOC politics. Whilst I understand the idea of it always being necessary to appeal to the centre ground, one of the potential pitfalls is that that ground is forever shifting - if the Labour Party is always on the search for the mythical centre there's a risk that they end up looking out of touch when it comes to addressing people's problems (although of course this might not necessarily matter if the Tories look even more away with the fairies!) I agree with you ptarmigan but I see Starmer as doing much of this. The centre ground does shift so you need to be pragmatic and adapt.For example drawing a line in the sand and joining striking rail staff on picket lines is not going to work. It is posturing and is not a good look. Saying you support decent wages which keep up with inflation but you also support the right of the public to travel to work and not going on a picket line is more pragmatic. You are hoping to represent the whole public if elected, not just one side. The Corbyn party would have sided with the strikers and tried to convince the public that morality on this issue was on their side. It would never have worked. The reaction of the press and huge swathes of the public would make sure of that. I see that as the centre ground. Any aspiring Labour Govmt has to be where the bulk of the public is not where the party members are. Blair always knew that. It was this that saw him eminently electable but mistrusted within the party and hated by the left. Fact is though Blair changed more in this country than Corbyn ever would. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2022 7:47:48 GMT
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Post by domjg on Sept 3, 2022 7:57:45 GMT
Re. Degree of 'leftness' of Labour policies.
As I've mentioned before I think this 'divide' is more about culture and personalities than actual policy substance with old style cultural Union first 'lefties' representing the push to go 'leftwards' and these having little sympathy from and being highly unrepresentative of the country at large.
In terms of actual policy any new Lab govt will be pushing at an open door in terms of imaginative 'left wing' policies as the times 'they have a change-ed'.
In optical terms it's far better that someone viewed more widely as a pragmatic 'centrist' introduces such policies and not an old left warhorse as then they can plausibly explain that circumstances demand it and it's not just being done for blind ideological reasons.
I personally have no issue with radical policies, I just want Labour to be as electable as they can be first.
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Post by moby on Sept 3, 2022 8:12:17 GMT
Make sure you give it a rigorous editing as well otherwise we'll spend the next 5 years speculating and talking policy instead of doing stuff. You kind of need to know what the policy is to know what to do, Moby! Otherwise can be a case of: “let’s do stuff!” “Ok, what shall we do?” “Dunno” Btw, regarding the link you gave on equality, without further analysis from you except to say it was pretty decent... it really isn’t very good. Obvious alarm bells arise when you realise it’s a look at Blair’s own analysis of his own performance. Not least because he gets to set the terms of reference. To give an example, ok so say he takes 300,000 children out of poverty. You might think that’s pretty decent, compared to a right wing Thatch perspective, but from a left wing perspective it’s very worrying. Because if you just get someone above the poverty line, then they may still be struggling. And if it’s via welfare then the parents don’t get the benefits of employment, or have a path to a better future. This is the problem of a right-wing perspective. It’s often about doing the bare minimum so people can just about survive. As opposed to good jobs for all, cheap essentials etc. Also, where’s the fizz? You said people at Oxford were fizzing with ideas. You ask me for my ideas, then when I give them complain I’m talking about policy and don’t give your own. Still, if it’s only going to be what Blair says... (Alec has a point about Oxford and he does have quite some fizz himself)
Otherwise can be a case of:
“let’s do stuff!”
“Ok, what shall we do?”
“Dunno”
As a member of the Labour Party I've spent hours and hours in discussion about policy over the years. I remember interminable discussions about Palestine in years past. To give an example, ok so say he takes 300,000 children out of poverty. You might think that’s pretty decent, compared to a right wing Thatch perspective, but from a left wing perspective it’s very worrying.
Because if you just get someone above the poverty line, then they may still be struggling. And if it’s via welfare then the parents don’t get the benefits of employment, or have a path to a better future.
This is the problem of a right-wing perspective. It’s often about doing the bare minimum so people can just about survive. As opposed to good jobs for all, cheap essentials etc.
Yes it's not perfect in the same way that Corbyn's hopes for equality were and Corbyn's Labour did produce a very fizzy manifesto in 2019. Credit for that at least. Alas a lot of fizz just turns out to be froth. I still think a lot of good plonk is bottled at Oxford though! |
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Post by lefthanging on Sept 3, 2022 8:16:37 GMT
ptarmigan Are you saying that these times are more desperate than the banking crisis of 2007, or the exit from the ERM in 1992(?) or the hyperinflation of the late '70s, or WWII? I'm not talking about philosophy, just practicalities. Whether tory instincts have changed or not is irrelevant. The fact is that handing out subsidies to every household is a very left-wing measure IMO. Not that I'm not grateful, but if it means my descendants will be saddled with massive government debt, maybe not such a good idea? No worries, I'm quite happy to pick up your debt if it means parts of the country don't freeze! In any case what matters to your descendants isn't the total amount of debt, but rather its share relative to the size of the economy - there's no point curbing the rate at which debt grows if the result is that the economy grows even slower. Now, quite apart from the health impacts, bills going up will reduce the spending power of millions and this will have a negative effect on business performance and tax revenues. If turning on the taps for a while can mitigate the impact of that, I'm all for it. Otherwise I'll just be saddled with an even bigger bill. p.s. government debt is not an intrinsically bad thing. By that I don't just mean that debt, while a negative in itself, provides many positive goods like investment - rather I mean that a certain level of government debt is in fact an essential intrinsic good that enables the country's money supply to increase in line with the growing population and national output. For example, if a magic genie paid off the entirety of the UK's debt, that would not be a good thing for any of us: instead it would reduce the UK's money supply by epic proportions and lead to hyper-deflation which would crash the economy. p.p.s. I'm sad you've lost the 'left' monicker so soon, it suited you.  |
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Post by alec on Sept 3, 2022 8:22:53 GMT
colin - "I don't think we understand the gravity of the situation yet:-" On the contrary, I think many of us know full well the mess we are in. It's Liz Truss and your man Johnson that have been sitting on their arses these last few months, twiddling their thumbs, while the countries biggest crisis in a generation unfolds.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2022 8:24:11 GMT
For example, if a magic genie paid off the entirety of the UK's debt, that would not be a good thing for any of us: instead it would reduce the UK's money supply by epic proportions and lead to hyperinflation which would crash the economy. For every debtor there is a creditor. A huge chunk of the "UK's debt" as you call it is owed within the UK - public to Private or vice versa, especially if you include the Government as public and BoE as private. It's all cobblers - if I owe myself a trillion pounds am I in any trouble? |
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Post by neilj on Sept 3, 2022 8:29:32 GMT
Interesting poll
I am reluctant to blame all Russians for Putin, but think restricting travel is the right thing to do. It does appear most Russians support/enable Putin and his gangster regime.
There are some who are brave and stand up to him, at great risk to themselves.
But I think as a whole unfortunately the Russian people need to suffer consequences for Putins war of aggression.
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Sept 3, 2022 8:30:11 GMT
You kind of need to know what the policy is to know what to do, Moby! As a member of the Labour Party I've spent hours and hours in discussion about policy over the years. I remember interminable discussions about Palestine in years past. …
Yes it's not perfect in the same way that Corbyn's hopes for equality were and Corbyn's Labour did produce a very fizzy manifesto in 2019. Credit for that at least. Alas a lot of fizz just turns out to be froth. I still think a lot of good plonk is bottled at Oxford though! Yes, can well believe it about policy discussions. It is far from inevitable that all policy discussions will be that productive. This is not an argument for no discussion of policy at all however, but instead for better discussions. Regarding Corbyn, it’s important to know why he lost, and polling gives info. on this. If you write off all the policies because he lost, when actually a good number were popular but he lost instead for other reasons - e.g. Brexit, personal popularity, media opposition - then you can risk throwing good stuff out with the bath water. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2022 8:31:35 GMT
Re. Degree of 'leftness' of Labour policies. As I've mentioned before I think this 'divide' is more about culture and personalities than actual policy substance with old style cultural Union first 'lefties' representing the push to go 'leftwards' and these having little sympathy from and being highly unrepresentative of the country at large. In terms of actual policy any new Lab govt will be pushing at an open door in terms of imaginative 'left wing' policies as the times 'they have a change-ed'. In optical terms it's far better that someone viewed more widely as a pragmatic 'centrist' introduces such policies and not an old left warhorse as then they can plausibly explain that circumstances demand it and it's not just being done for blind ideological reasons. I personally have no issue with radical policies, I just want Labour to be as electable as they can be first. There is a hint of Trojan Horse about this. Mind you , I think Conservative Members may be facing a similar quadruped when Truss comes face to face with reality. My current feeling about Starmers Labour Party is a degree of comfort on the fiscal and economic front. I know who his CoE will be and I'm not too worried about her ,given the conditions she is likely to face. ( just imagine McDonnell + Corbyn in these circumstances !) The influence of his Left wing in Social and Cultural policy is what worries me so I am much more interested in who his pick for Home Sec and Education will be. |
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Post by crossbat11 on Sept 3, 2022 8:31:37 GMT
RAF Now you come to mention it, I think you're right about the Johnny Nash classic being used as background music for the Mystery Guest segment of Question of Sport. Johnny was confused a little when he recorded There are more Questions than Answers, but I think he can see more clearly now the rain has stopped. Rather than watching the UAE Overseas Franchise XI thrash my ailing Villa side this afternoon, I'm off to watch the Mighty Reds take their first tentative steps on the road to Wembley this afternoon instead. They're taking on Rushall Olympic in leafy Walsall. I will have to find a pint of pre-match Banks (bonksy's) Mild somewhere to celebrate my rare foray into the Black Country. I'll be giving this fellow a cheer for sure. A heartwarming story. www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/62663342?at_medium=RSS&at_campaign=KARANGAWe've been knocked out in the First Qualifying Round of the FA Cup nine times out of the last eleven years but I sense something may be astir in yonder Rushall this afternoon. We've only qualified twice for the FA Cup proper in 130 years, but I sense we may be making a real go this time around and could be rocking up in Wembley come late May next year. Anyway, whoever they may be, I shall follow the winners into the next round and onwards after that, all the way to Wembley, ticket availability allowing for the later rounds. An odyssey I've always wanted to indulge. My Road to Wembley starts here today. I wonder where it will take me. Let's see. Come on the Mighty Reds. I'm basing my little odyssey on the journey Brian James took in 1976/77. Brian was one of my favourite football writers and took a Cardus-esque lyrical approach to his writing. Cricket has been blessed with great literature over the years, football rather less so, but James indulges his love of the old round ball winter game here and dips into a slightly forgotten England as he does so. And talks lovingly about what still is, for all its many modern flaws, a wonderful old game. gameofthepeople.com/2017/08/24/brian-james-the-man-who-built-a-road-to-wembley/ |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2022 8:32:37 GMT
colin - "I don't think we understand the gravity of the situation yet:-" On the contrary, I think many of us know full well the mess we are in. It's Liz Truss and your man Johnson that have been sitting on their arses these last few months, twiddling their thumbs, while the countries biggest crisis in a generation unfolds. Of course. But my sights were raised a little higher. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2022 8:33:24 GMT
As a member of the Labour Party I've spent hours and hours in discussion about policy over the years. I remember interminable discussions about Palestine in years past. …
Yes it's not perfect in the same way that Corbyn's hopes for equality were and Corbyn's Labour did produce a very fizzy manifesto in 2019. Credit for that at least. Alas a lot of fizz just turns out to be froth. I still think a lot of good plonk is bottled at Oxford though! Yes, can well believe it about policy discussions. It is far from the case that all policy discussions will be that productive. This is not an argument for no discussion of policy at all however, but instead for better discussions. Regarding Corbyn, it’s important to know why he lost, and polling gives info. on this. If you write off all the policies because he lost, when actually a good number were popular but he lost instead for other reasons - e.g. Brexit, personal popularity, media opposition - then you can throw good stuff out with the bath water. Corbyn did better than Miliband & Brown the last two centrist candidates. |
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Post by domjg on Sept 3, 2022 8:34:24 GMT
Only Mr Argument for it's own sake carfrew could make the statement that lifting children out of poverty is a bad thing! I'm sure he'll find better ideas for poverty alleviation in the Telegraph |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2022 8:35:05 GMT
The influence of his Left wing in Social and Cultural policy is what worries me so I am much more interested in who his pick for Home Sec and Education will be. ah! Your imaginary crusade against "Woke" again, important just so you can keep voting Tory despite Truss, incompetence & plain corruption. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2022 8:36:03 GMT
Only Mr Argument for it's own sake carfrew could make the statement that lifting children out of poverty is a bad thing! I'm sure he'll find better ideas for poverty alleviation in the Telegraph But he's right that we should have bigger plans to transform life for those struggling. |
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Post by lefthanging on Sept 3, 2022 8:37:38 GMT
For example, if a magic genie paid off the entirety of the UK's debt, that would not be a good thing for any of us: instead it would reduce the UK's money supply by epic proportions and lead to hyperinflation which would crash the economy. For every debtor there is a creditor. A huge chunk of the "UK's debt" as you call it is owed within the UK - public to Private or vice versa, especially if you include the Government as public and BoE as private. It's all cobblers - if I owe myself a trillion pounds am I in any trouble? Indeed - the fact that so much debt is internal reduces the impact of the issue further. But my main point is that the size of the UK's debt - public and private - is in many ways just a measure of the country's money supply. Because of the so-called fractional reserve banking system, banks issuing any new debt - whether public or private - literally creates money that didn't exist before. And it's a good thing they do so, because the money supply needs to keep up with the country's steadily growing population else you end up with epic deflation and a crash. (Also drat - in the post you quoted I should have said hyper deflation, not inflation) |
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Sept 3, 2022 8:41:01 GMT
Only Mr Argument for it's own sake carfrew could make the statement that lifting children out of poverty is a bad thing! I'm sure he'll find better ideas for poverty alleviation in the Telegraph I didn’t do that though did I. I said it was better than what Thatch might have done. I.e. better than doing nothing. But that it can still leave people struggling so you can’t really leave it there. The Telegraph is not much cop for poverty alleviation. It was pretty good on Covid, it’s good on gardening, bits and pieces on energy etc… it’s useful for keeping tabs on what right-wingers are up to. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2022 8:49:56 GMT
For example, if a magic genie paid off the entirety of the UK's debt, that would not be a good thing for any of us: instead it would reduce the UK's money supply by epic proportions and lead to hyperinflation which would crash the economy. For every debtor there is a creditor. A huge chunk of the "UK's debt" as you call it is owed within the UK - public to Private or vice versa, especially if you include the Government as public and BoE as private. It's all cobblers - if I owe myself a trillion pounds am I in any trouble? UK Government Debt held by UK Private Sector Institutions is not "owing to myself". It is a legal obligation of The State to pay on the due date. Currently 25% of the Debt is held under QE and is being run down as it is redeemed. (Actually Boe has just said it might start active sales-putting even more Gilts into a nervous market.) Of the other 75%-37% pts is held by overseas buyers and 63%pts by UK institutions. Currently there is a bear market in UK Gilts-prices down/yields up. Fears of a UK recession and Government Debt levels + BoE leaving the market. Sterling is falling for the same reasons-pushing up inflation. Your cosy MMTish, Corbynite idea of zero sum Debt on a Socialist Island Paradise, isolated from the Real World is ............cobblers. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2022 8:52:21 GMT
The influence of his Left wing in Social and Cultural policy is what worries me so I am much more interested in who his pick for Home Sec and Education will be. ah! Your imaginary crusade against "Woke" again, important just so you can keep voting Tory despite Truss, incompetence & plain corruption. Voting in a GE isn't compulsory in UK. |
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Post by crossbat11 on Sept 3, 2022 8:53:33 GMT
For every debtor there is a creditor. A huge chunk of the "UK's debt" as you call it is owed within the UK - public to Private or vice versa, especially if you include the Government as public and BoE as private. It's all cobblers - if I owe myself a trillion pounds am I in any trouble? UK Government Debt held by UK Private Sector Institutions is not "owing to myself". It is a legal obligation of The State to pay on the due date. Currently 25% of the Debt is held under QE and is being run down as it is redeemed. (Actually Boe has just said it might start active sales-putting even more Gilts into a nervous market.) Of the other 75%-37% pts is held by overseas buyers and 63%pts by UK institutions. Currently there is a bear market in UK Gilts-prices down/yields up. Fears of a UK recession and Government Debt levels + BoE leaving the market. Sterling is falling for the same reasons-pushing up inflation. Your cosy MMTish, Corbynite idea of zero sum Debt on a Socialist Island Paradise, isolated from the Real World is ............cobblers. Jeez, Col. The wrath of Carfers awaits you. Not. 🤣👍 |
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Sept 3, 2022 8:56:27 GMT
UK Government Debt held by UK Private Sector Institutions is not "owing to myself". It is a legal obligation of The State to pay on the due date. Currently 25% of the Debt is held under QE and is being run down as it is redeemed. (Actually Boe has just said it might start active sales-putting even more Gilts into a nervous market.) Of the other 75%-37% pts is held by overseas buyers and 63%pts by UK institutions. Currently there is a bear market in UK Gilts-prices down/yields up. Fears of a UK recession and Government Debt levels + BoE leaving the market. Sterling is falling for the same reasons-pushing up inflation. Your cosy MMTish, Corbynite idea of zero sum Debt on a Socialist Island Paradise, isolated from the Real World is ............cobblers. Jeez, Col. The wrath of Carfers awaits you. Not. 🤣👍 Of course not. I think Corbyn should be open to criticism, same as Starmer, Tories, Wasps, public school liberals posing as lefties, or even as “centrists” etc. Preferably fair criticism of course. Maybe even some data! |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2022 8:57:08 GMT
"Investors bet against UK government bonds on rising inflation ...
... yields on gilts will continue rising as investors shun UK government debt. Foreign investors ditched £16.6bn worth of gilts in July,.."
FT Sept1
"Rates Spark: Hawkish blinkers
Markets now favour a 75bp hike by the European Central Bank in an upcoming meeting, ignoring the drop in energy prices this week. Gilts are suffering from fears of fiscal spending and foreign outflows"
ING Sept 1
"Cheap government debt was a hoot, now brace yourself for the scary bill"
David Smith
Times
24 Aug
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